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Luckysingh

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PunjabiEspada ji.
Don't think that no ones taking any notice of what you say or trying to ignore your comments.
This thread has been going for a very long time, it is the longest one on SPN, I think!
Throughout the thread, the same arguments that you put forward have been raised many times. The result is that wether you argue for or against veggie or non veggie, -a single truthful statement won't be concluded.

You can look and see in the posts that many times the same arguments of pain and cruelty to animals have been put forward.
You need to read the 1st essay/post and maybe a few of them later on, and you should get the idea that for every argument there will be a strong opposing argument and comment.

In terms of sikhism, the main points to note are-
That Gurbani quotes for pro-veggie arguments are wrongly presented and interpreted.
The Guru Granth Sahib ji does not directly state either way if one should or should not eat meat.
It is a choice of the individual and what their conscious tells them.
The rehat maryada does not specify and Akal Takht have ruled that it doesn't make a sikh eating meat not welcome.
It leaves the choice to one self.

All the arguments are then, outside of the scope for sikhi.
I myself used to be convinced that eating meat is prohibited, but now I realise that it's a personal choice and how you feel about it.
If your conscious tells you no,no, then don't do it. But if ones conscious is not affected or it doesn't matter wether they do or not, then fine, go ahead.
The arguments for pain and suffering are all very well. BUT, these won't stop if consumption of meat was prohibited throughout the world.
There is a lot of cruelty, pain and suffering in production of dairy products.
Lots of chemicals have been used that have wiped out certain colonies of insects.. etc in mass production of fruit and veg.
So, we can't just see it as clear as black and white if we use pain and suffering as a basis.

As a sikh, one that eats meat or not doesn't make either of them any better.
Meat consumption is not in any way used to define a sikh.

We shouldn't divide between ourselves any sikhs that eat to ones that don't, this further dilutes sikhism.
We should also not judge other's in relation to their attitude on meat consumption.

I think you should get the idea.

Sat Kartar
Lucky Singh
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Lucky Singh ji,

In terms of sikhism, the main points to note are-
That Gurbani quotes for pro-veggie arguments are wrongly presented and interpreted.
Are you coming to this conclusion after having gone through the shabads yourself (as you do Ambarsaria ji's Sukhmani series) or are you taking the author's word for it?
 

Luckysingh

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Lucky Singh ji,


Are you coming to this conclusion after having gone through the shabads yourself (as you do Ambarsaria ji's Sukhmani series) or are you taking the author's word for it?

I went through most of the posts a while back including the gurbani quotes. I think 'misquote' would probably be a better term to apply above instead of 'wrongly presented'.
The conclusion I came to was very neutral in terms of sikhism.
The view is a strong matter of personal feeling and consciousness.
 

BhagatSingh

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Lucky Singh ji,
Now this issue of meat eating is actually not THAT important. If I agreed to anything in the article, it would be this. But that should not prevent discussion. Maintaining detachment is key.

I did not find the article so conclusive. In fact, where the author says Gurbani is being mistranslated, it is not. For example, the salok's of Bhagat Kabir ji were already accurate and consistent with his beliefs. He was a vegetarian and is against the eating of meat. He says that very clearly here.

In this order: Gurmukhi, Word for Word translation, Sant Singh Khalsa, Freed Kote wala Teeka and Prof Sahib Singh

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥
ਕਬੀਰ - Kabir, ਜੋਰੀ- force, ਕੀਏ- use thereof, ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ - is tyranny, ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ - which you call permissible

Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal.
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਜੋਰਾ ਜੋਰੀ ਕਰ ਬੱਕਰਾ ਆਦੀ ਮਾਰਨੇ ਸੇ ਹੈ ਤੋ ਜੁਲਮ ਔ ਤਿਸ ਕੋ ਮਾਰ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਹਲਾਲ ਕੀਆ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥
ਹੇ ਕਬੀਰ! (ਮੁੱਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਦੱਸ ਕਿ) ਕਿਸੇ ਉਤੇ ਧੱਕਾ ਕਰਨਾ ਜ਼ੁਲਮ ਹੈ, (ਤੂੰ ਜਾਨਵਰ ਨੂੰ ਫੜ ਕੇ ਬਿਸਮਿੱਲਾ ਆਖ ਕੇ ਜ਼ਬਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਅਤੇ) ਤੂੰ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਕਿ ਇਹ (ਜ਼ਬਹ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਨਵਰ) ਰੱਬ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਤੇ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਦੇਣ ਦੇ ਲਾਇਕ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ (ਅਤੇ ਇਸ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਨਾਲ ਖ਼ੁਦਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਉਤੇ ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ); (ਪਰ ਇਹ ਮਾਸ ਤੂੰ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਖਾ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈਂ। ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਪਾਪ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ੀਂਦੇ, ਕਦੇ ਸੋਚ ਕਿ)


ਦਫਤਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਂਗੀਐ ਤਬ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ ॥੧੮੭॥
ਦਫਤਰਿ - office of Dharam Raj, ਲੇਖਾ - account, ਮਾਂਗੀਐ - calls for, ਤਬ - then, ਹੋਇਗੋ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ - what will be your condition? (rhetorical for "You will be in trouble.")

When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then? ||187||
ਜਬ ਧਰਮਰਾਇ ਕੇ ਦਫਤਰ ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਸੇ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਂਗੀਐ ਗਾ ਤਬ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੌਨ ਸਾ ਹਵਾਲ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ਅਰਥਾਤ ਬੁਰਾ ਹਾਲ ਹੀ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ॥੧੮੭॥
ਜਦੋਂ ਰੱਬ ਦੀ ਦਰਗਾਹ ਵਿਚ ਤੇਰੇ ਅਮਲਾਂ ਦਾ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ਤਾਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੀਹ ਹਾਲ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ॥੧੮੭॥


ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
ਕਬੀਰ - Kabir, ਖੂਬੁ - excellent, ਖਾਨਾ - eating, ਖੀਚਰੀ - dish made from rice and beans, ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ - if amrit-like salt is added
Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਹੇ ਭਾਈ ਇਹ ਖਿਚੜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਣਾ ਹੀ ਖੂਬ ਹੈ ਭਾਵ ਅਛਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਖਿਚੜੀ ਮੈਂ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਤ ਕੇ ਸਮਾਨ ਘ੍ਰਿਤ ਔ ਲੂਣ ਪੜਾ ਹੂਆ ਹੈ॥
ਹੇ ਕਬੀਰ! (ਮੁੱਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬੇਸ਼ੱਕ ਆਖ ਕਿ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਦੇ ਬਹਾਨੇ ਮਾਸ ਖਾਣ ਨਾਲੋਂ) ਖਿਚੜੀ ਖਾ ਲੈਣੀ ਚੰਗੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਸੁਆਦਲਾ ਲੂਣ ਹੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੋਵੇ।

ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
ਹੇਰਾ - meat (from hunting), ਰੋਟੀ - roti/bread, ਕਾਰਨੇ, with the intent, ਗਲਾ - neck, throat, ਕਟਾਵੈ - cut, ਕਉਨੁ - who
Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||
ਕਿਉਂਕਿ (ਹੇਰਾ) ਸ਼ਿਕਾਰ ਮੈਂ ਜੀਵੋਂ ਕੋ ਮਾਰ ਕਰਕੇ ਮਾਸ ਕੇ ਸਾਥ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਨੇ ਕੇ ਕਾਰਨ ਸੇ ਪੀਛੇ ਅਪਨੇ ਕੋ ਕੌਨ ਕਟਾਵੇ ਭਾਵ ਜੀਵ ਕੇ ਮਾਰਨੇ ਕਰਕੇ ਫੇਰ ਅਪਨਾ ਸੀਸ ਤਿਸ ਸੇ ਕਟਵਾਵਨਾ ਪੜਤਾ ਹੈ॥੧੮੮॥
ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ ਇਸ ਗੱਲ ਲਈ ਤਿਆਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਮਾਸ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਣ ਦੀ ਨਿਯਤ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਪਣੀ ਹੋਵੇ ਪਰ (ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਦਾ ਹੋਕਾ ਦੇ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਪਸ਼ੂ ਨੂੰ) ਜ਼ਬਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਫਿਰਾਂ ॥੧੮੮॥


I have come across mistranslations (e.g. the saloks that come right after are mistranslated by Prof Sahib Singh and Sant Singh Khalsa, which are inconsistent with Sant Kabir's beliefs). But here all translations and teekas align and their translations align with Sant Kabir ji's beliefs. Read other shabads by Kabir ji and his anti-meat (to be very precise, he is against killing to obtain meat) views will become quite clear.


PunjabiEspada ji,
Minimize worldwide meat consumption and minimize suffering
It could also be the other way around.
 

BhagatSingh

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Punjabi Espada ji,
The view on the other thread (vegetarian consciousness...) was that meat had a negative affect on spirituality, hinders spiritual growth and thus would increase the suffering of the human being.

What do you think about this? It has little to do with animal suffering, which is an important topic but irrelevant to the article.
 
Apr 26, 2012
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Punjabi Espada ji,
The view on the other thread (vegetarian consciousness...) was that meat had a negative affect on spirituality, hinders spiritual growth and thus would increase the suffering of the human being.

What do you think about this? It has little to do with animal suffering, which is an important topic but irrelevant to the article.

my view is that eating meat nowadays is needless killing done solely for taste

not only that; but during the process of slaughter; there is much suffering

therefore yeah, it probably does
 

Randip Singh

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I'll make this short and sweet

I won't even try to debate you guys on the message that Bani has obviously delivered; since some people twist it to bend to their own beliefs and neither of us will bend to the other's opinion



NO

This is a Sikh forum so please furnish full shabads that directly discourage or encourage meat eating. Not one liners but full shabads.
 

Randip Singh

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my view is that eating meat nowadays is needless killing done solely for taste

not only that; but during the process of slaughter; there is much suffering

therefore yeah, it probably does

Your view. No offence we are not interested in YOUR view, just like people aren't interested in my view.

What you should do is furnish the Sikh view.
 

Randip Singh

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Lucky Singh ji,
Now this issue of meat eating is actually not THAT important. If I agreed to anything in the article, it would be this. But that should not prevent discussion. Maintaining detachment is key.

I did not find the article so conclusive. In fact, where the author says Gurbani is being mistranslated, it is not. For example, the salok's of Bhagat Kabir ji were already accurate and consistent with his beliefs. He was a vegetarian and is against the eating of meat. He says that very clearly here.

In this order: Gurmukhi, Word for Word translation, Sant Singh Khalsa, Freed Kote wala Teeka and Prof Sahib Singh

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥
ਕਬੀਰ - Kabir, ਜੋਰੀ- force, ਕੀਏ- use thereof, ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ - is tyranny, ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ - which you call permissible

Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal.
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਜੋਰਾ ਜੋਰੀ ਕਰ ਬੱਕਰਾ ਆਦੀ ਮਾਰਨੇ ਸੇ ਹੈ ਤੋ ਜੁਲਮ ਔ ਤਿਸ ਕੋ ਮਾਰ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਹਲਾਲ ਕੀਆ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥
ਹੇ ਕਬੀਰ! (ਮੁੱਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਦੱਸ ਕਿ) ਕਿਸੇ ਉਤੇ ਧੱਕਾ ਕਰਨਾ ਜ਼ੁਲਮ ਹੈ, (ਤੂੰ ਜਾਨਵਰ ਨੂੰ ਫੜ ਕੇ ਬਿਸਮਿੱਲਾ ਆਖ ਕੇ ਜ਼ਬਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਅਤੇ) ਤੂੰ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਕਿ ਇਹ (ਜ਼ਬਹ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਨਵਰ) ਰੱਬ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਤੇ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਦੇਣ ਦੇ ਲਾਇਕ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ (ਅਤੇ ਇਸ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਨਾਲ ਖ਼ੁਦਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਉਤੇ ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ); (ਪਰ ਇਹ ਮਾਸ ਤੂੰ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਖਾ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈਂ। ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਪਾਪ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ੀਂਦੇ, ਕਦੇ ਸੋਚ ਕਿ)


ਦਫਤਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਂਗੀਐ ਤਬ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ ॥੧੮੭॥
ਦਫਤਰਿ - office of Dharam Raj, ਲੇਖਾ - account, ਮਾਂਗੀਐ - calls for, ਤਬ - then, ਹੋਇਗੋ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ - what will be your condition? (rhetorical for "You will be in trouble.")

When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then? ||187||
ਜਬ ਧਰਮਰਾਇ ਕੇ ਦਫਤਰ ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਸੇ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਂਗੀਐ ਗਾ ਤਬ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੌਨ ਸਾ ਹਵਾਲ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ਅਰਥਾਤ ਬੁਰਾ ਹਾਲ ਹੀ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ॥੧੮੭॥
ਜਦੋਂ ਰੱਬ ਦੀ ਦਰਗਾਹ ਵਿਚ ਤੇਰੇ ਅਮਲਾਂ ਦਾ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ਤਾਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੀਹ ਹਾਲ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ॥੧੮੭॥


ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
ਕਬੀਰ - Kabir, ਖੂਬੁ - excellent, ਖਾਨਾ - eating, ਖੀਚਰੀ - dish made from rice and beans, ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ - if amrit-like salt is added
Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਹੇ ਭਾਈ ਇਹ ਖਿਚੜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਣਾ ਹੀ ਖੂਬ ਹੈ ਭਾਵ ਅਛਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਖਿਚੜੀ ਮੈਂ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਤ ਕੇ ਸਮਾਨ ਘ੍ਰਿਤ ਔ ਲੂਣ ਪੜਾ ਹੂਆ ਹੈ॥
ਹੇ ਕਬੀਰ! (ਮੁੱਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬੇਸ਼ੱਕ ਆਖ ਕਿ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਦੇ ਬਹਾਨੇ ਮਾਸ ਖਾਣ ਨਾਲੋਂ) ਖਿਚੜੀ ਖਾ ਲੈਣੀ ਚੰਗੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਸੁਆਦਲਾ ਲੂਣ ਹੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੋਵੇ।

ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
ਹੇਰਾ - meat (from hunting), ਰੋਟੀ - roti/bread, ਕਾਰਨੇ, with the intent, ਗਲਾ - neck, throat, ਕਟਾਵੈ - cut, ਕਉਨੁ - who
Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||
ਕਿਉਂਕਿ (ਹੇਰਾ) ਸ਼ਿਕਾਰ ਮੈਂ ਜੀਵੋਂ ਕੋ ਮਾਰ ਕਰਕੇ ਮਾਸ ਕੇ ਸਾਥ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਨੇ ਕੇ ਕਾਰਨ ਸੇ ਪੀਛੇ ਅਪਨੇ ਕੋ ਕੌਨ ਕਟਾਵੇ ਭਾਵ ਜੀਵ ਕੇ ਮਾਰਨੇ ਕਰਕੇ ਫੇਰ ਅਪਨਾ ਸੀਸ ਤਿਸ ਸੇ ਕਟਵਾਵਨਾ ਪੜਤਾ ਹੈ॥੧੮੮॥
ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ ਇਸ ਗੱਲ ਲਈ ਤਿਆਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਮਾਸ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਣ ਦੀ ਨਿਯਤ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਪਣੀ ਹੋਵੇ ਪਰ (ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਦਾ ਹੋਕਾ ਦੇ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਪਸ਼ੂ ਨੂੰ) ਜ਼ਬਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਫਿਰਾਂ ॥੧੮੮॥


I have come across mistranslations (e.g. the saloks that come right after are mistranslated by Prof Sahib Singh and Sant Singh Khalsa, which are inconsistent with Sant Kabir's beliefs). But here all translations and teekas align and their translations align with Sant Kabir ji's beliefs. Read other shabads by Kabir ji and his anti-meat (to be very precise, he is against killing to obtain meat) views will become quite clear.


PunjabiEspada ji,

It could also be the other way around.

Kabir ji also stated:

http://singhsabha.com/bhagat_kabir.htm

Kabir does not think well of women. there is almost a tirade against them in the hymns of Kabir. Woman is characterised as "a black cobra', the pit of hell and the refuse of the world." She is considered to be a hurdle in the path of the spiritual progress of man. He spoke, "woman ruins everything when she comes near a man; devotion, salvation and divine knowledge no longer enter his soul." His views, about woman are also evident from all his vehement attacks against maya. Almost everywhere he links maya to a woman who is out to entice and entrap man, and destroy his spiritual life. Such views about woman from a married person are, indeed, quite uncommon. The cosmological views of Kabir give a clear clue to his worldview. He finds Niranjana to be the creator of the world; maya or woman. And this woman stands between man and God. She is there to entice him away from Him.

Should we follow that as Sikhs?

Also the point about mistranslation is irrelevant is one line is taken out of a shabad. It then becomes a misquote surely?

Don't eat buttered bread either?

Page 1379
Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. || 28 |

Look at this thread on Bani Manipulation:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/38139-a-question-to-gurujee-bani-manipulation.html
 
Last edited:

Luckysingh

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Punjabi Espada ji,
The view on the other thread (vegetarian consciousness...) was that meat had a negative affect on spirituality, hinders spiritual growth and thus would increase the suffering of the human being.

What do you think about this? It has little to do with animal suffering, which is an important topic but irrelevant to the article.

I'm not sure if the other thread is now closed ?
It won't allow me to post, I was trying to post the important question by Bhagat ji above.
It would be a good discussion as I'm sure many will have views of diet and spirituality.
 
Apr 26, 2012
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Despite me believing Sri Guru Grant Sahib Ji preaches to minimize suffering and both of those videos were actually not from PETA; which does not even matter since the truth is still the truth and those videos were vital in sharing knowledge and showing meat eaters where their food comes from and to know the amount of suffering

regardless, I'll play by the rules

If Bhagat Kabeer Ji was truly a vegetarian and he held those beliefs as you said; and Sri Guru Grant Sahib Ji shared these beliefs; does it not mean that we should follow them?


 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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The GURU is NEUTRAL.....RAS MEETHA...RAS..MAAS...Page 15

SABH ...RAS...MITHEH...IF Menniah....BUT NOT IF just paying Lip Service..(Sunneha SALLONNEH) Page 16

36 types of Food..are AMRIT...IF BHAO..is EK..(Love for EK..the creator creates the Level Playing Field and makes every FOOD "good"....BUT SANS that BHAO for EK...no matter daal or maas..both are no good.

Page 16 Guru nanak ji warns us about this "MISSING LINK of BHAO-EK....and one can argue that Riding a BMW is banned..Sleeping on a soft silk mattress is Banned..Having a beautiful woman for company is Banned. Using perfumes is banned...Consuming 36 foods is Banned..having an army is banned..having a Mansion is banned.... BECAUSE IF ANY THING >>"interferes with your BHAO-EK...and Creates TENSION/VIKAARS/nightmares/churns yiur mind..makes your body sick and incapable of nitnem/rehat/discipline..etc etc" THEN THAT is BANNED.
This is the ESSENCE GURU JI tackles so early in SGGS..sri raag Pages 13 ONWARDS...please read carefully what GURU JI "SANCTIONS" and what GURU JI DISCOURAGES.

People have a tendency to ..."HIJACK" the GURUS position and assume they know MORE than what the GURU says...."meat in diet" is a TINY tiny .00000000000001 ISSUE...whereas the GURU Tackled the VITAL ISSUES.....but we in our infinite wisdom..feel we need to go on and on about the TINY SPECK of an issue while IGNORING the MOUNT EVEREST before us as insignificant...
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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PRAYA HAAK..( haak praya Nanaka us SOOR us GAYEH )..is a MOUNT EVEREST sized ISSUE....and it Happens DAILY in front of our EYES....all over the world...BUT Hardly a WORD on nay SIKH FORUM about this....all we see are meat..meat..meat..blah blah blah..
A BILLION People CONSUME "Gayeh" but abhor the SOOR....another billion consume "SOOR" and "GAYEH".....another Billion or so say SOOR is OK BUT NOT "Gayeh"..and a couple of billion consume anything and everything....BUT HARDLY ANYONE EVEN MENTIONS..PRAYA HAAK...Human Rights, Freedom of Religion...economic slavery, land grab, forst grab etc etc etc...ALL of WHICH..create More tensions, more VIKAARS...more MURDERS/KIDNAPPINGS/THUGGHERY ( Guru ji calls THUGGHEE as Consuming DEAD BODY)..and Millions of Sikhs are among those who Commit THUGGHHE daily.. happen due to this "Haak praya" ..even the Ten commandments address this issue of PRAYA HAKK but virtually IGNORED by the Christian nations !!
 
Apr 26, 2012
15
4
31
The GURU is NEUTRAL.....RAS MEETHA...RAS..MAAS...Page 15

SABH ...RAS...MITHEH...IF Menniah....BUT NOT IF just paying Lip Service..(Sunneha SALLONNEH) Page 16

36 types of Food..are AMRIT...IF BHAO..is EK..(Love for EK..the creator creates the Level Playing Field and makes every FOOD "good"....BUT SANS that BHAO for EK...no matter daal or maas..both are no good.

Page 16 Guru nanak ji warns us about this "MISSING LINK of BHAO-EK....and one can argue that Riding a BMW is banned..Sleeping on a soft silk mattress is Banned..Having a beautiful woman for company is Banned. Using perfumes is banned...Consuming 36 foods is Banned..having an army is banned..having a Mansion is banned.... BECAUSE IF ANY THING >>"interferes with your BHAO-EK...and Creates TENSION/VIKAARS/nightmares/churns yiur mind..makes your body sick and incapable of nitnem/rehat/discipline..etc etc" THEN THAT is BANNED.
This is the ESSENCE GURU JI tackles so early in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..sri raag Pages 13 ONWARDS...please read carefully what GURU JI "SANCTIONS" and what GURU JI DISCOURAGES.

People have a tendency to ..."HIJACK" the GURUS position and assume they know MORE than what the GURU says...."meat in diet" is a TINY tiny .00000000000001 ISSUE...whereas the GURU Tackled the VITAL ISSUES.....but we in our infinite wisdom..feel we need to go on and on about the TINY SPECK of an issue while IGNORING the MOUNT EVEREST before us as insignificant...
are there issues more significant?

yes

does that mean we should ignore this issue?

no

does it really need to be as big of a deal as it is?

personally no, I felt the answer was pretty obvious

Simply analyze this issue, read my post as well, and you can see Sri Guru Grant Sahib Ji clearly commands for us not to eat meat

there, make that change and move on; case closed

then we can focus on other issues
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Case was already CLOSED 550 years ago..BY GURU NANAK JI SAHIB....MAAS MAAS kar moorakh jhaggrrey.....BUT his SIKHS disregarded that advice.....and keep on REOPENING the case....Even the "sarcastic" title Guru Ji attached to the arguers of this.."MOORAKHS..FOOLS.." didnt stop them because one side thinks the title is addressed to the opposite side only.
Whats even stranger is that Guru ji terms..thugghee, cheating, lying, praya hakk grabbing/suppression as MURDAAR..eating CARRION..dead animals..BUT people continue to devour CARRION like VULTURES and still remain "holy"..no where is Murdaar used to describe MAAS. I hold the opinion that "EATING MURDAAR" as described by GURU Ji is way MORE destructive to human Morality and spirituality than a kilo of meat daily. This is why INDIA is morally bankrupt..way way more than say USA..becasue the Hundreds of Thousands of Holy BABAS..derawadees, dehdharee Gurus, even Yoga masters like baba RAMDEV have Amassed BILLIONS by lying/cheating/grabbing paraya hakk etc etc...no matter if they eat khichree or daal only ( which i think is highly unlikely as Guru nanak ji already described in Asa dee vaar as "Naak pakkrreh in PUBLIC and meat devouvers at NIGHt in private/ or worse carrion consumers)). The WEST is more "moral" than India any day..just look at the corruption and all that..vegetariansim didnt help one bit...I beleive the RSS and Congress i Goondas who killed sikhs with impunity in 1984 streets of delhi were all strict vegetarians who wouldnt harm a hair on a cows tail...BUT SIKH lives didnt matter one bit..such a massacre has never happened in USA..or canada..even though they consume beef by the billion tons yearly.... so DIET is not a factor in Morality/spirituality..and the Case will never be closed..becasue IF Guur ji couldnt close it..who are we to close it ?? Futile exercise.
My benti..just Carry ON...
 
Apr 26, 2012
15
4
31
Case was already CLOSED 550 years ago..BY GURU NANAK JI SAHIB....MAAS MAAS kar moorakh jhaggrrey.....BUT his SIKHS disregarded that advice.....and keep on REOPENING the case....Even the "sarcastic" title Guru Ji attached to the arguers of this.."MOORAKHS..FOOLS.." didnt stop them because one side thinks the title is addressed to the opposite side only.
Whats even stranger is that Guru ji terms..thugghee, cheating, lying, praya hakk grabbing/suppression as MURDAAR..eating CARRION..dead animals..BUT people continue to devour CARRION like VULTURES and still remain "holy"..no where is Murdaar used to describe MAAS. I hold the opinion that "EATING MURDAAR" as described by GURU Ji is way MORE destructive to human Morality and spirituality than a kilo of meat daily. This is why INDIA is morally bankrupt..way way more than say USA..becasue the Hundreds of Thousands of Holy BABAS..derawadees, dehdharee Gurus, even Yoga masters like baba RAMDEV have Amassed BILLIONS by lying/cheating/grabbing paraya hakk etc etc...no matter if they eat khichree or daal only ( which i think is highly unlikely as Guru nanak ji already described in Asa dee vaar as "Naak pakkrreh in PUBLIC and meat devouvers at NIGHt in private/ or worse carrion consumers)). The WEST is more "moral" than India any day..just look at the corruption and all that..vegetariansim didnt help one bit...I beleive the RSS and Congress i Goondas who killed sikhs with impunity in 1984 streets of delhi were all strict vegetarians who wouldnt harm a hair on a cows tail...BUT SIKH lives didnt matter one bit..such a massacre has never happened in USA..or canada..even though they consume beef by the billion tons yearly.... so DIET is not a factor in Morality/spirituality..and the Case will never be closed..becasue IF Guru ji couldnt close it..who are we to close it ?? Futile exercise.
My benti..just Carry ON...
Sri Guru Grant Sahib Ji clearly said it's wrong

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji said it's foolish to argue about it
 

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