Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

[Shanger]

Shanger

Here is one for you!

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&Param=1379

1379

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਕਾਠ ਕੀ ਲਾਵਣੁ ਮੇਰੀ ਭੁਖ ॥
फरीदा रोटी मेरी काठ की लावणु मेरी भुख ॥
Farīḏā rotī merī kāṯẖ kī lāvaṇ merī bẖukẖ.
Fareed, my bread is made of wood, and hunger is my appetizer.

ਜਿਨਾ ਖਾਧੀ ਚੋਪੜੀ ਘਣੇ ਸਹਨਿਗੇ ਦੁਖ ॥੨੮॥
जिना खाधी चोपड़ी घणे सहनिगे दुख ॥२८॥
Jinā kẖāḏẖī cẖopṛī gẖaṇe sėhnige ḏukẖ. ||28||
Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. ||28||

Does this mean you should give up buttered bread?

Only if it's made from wood winkingmunda

That is a good example if taking things too literally. Not to go too off-topic but I do wonder why the Guru Granth Sahib Ji was not written in more simple language, surely the poetic verses, metaphors etc will prove to be a very difficult challenge for people of low intelligence?

 

[spnadmin]

Just a point of information Shanger ji,

Randip Singh ji did not author the original article. He posted it. The recent examples he gave were his personal way of explaining the predicament.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Shanger ji,

Guru Fateh.

By now, I assume you must have asked your Sikh parents or relatives about the same Shabads.

Can you share their opinions with us and enlighten us with their wisdom? In this collective way we can all learn from each other.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Shanger ji,

Guru Fateh.

You mentioned that you are studying SGGS now. Can you share with us which other scriptures from other religions you have already studied and if there is something comparative to the Shabads above from the SGGS?

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Randip Singh]

Thanks, see now this makes a HUGE difference.

"gnaw at the bones of these dead people." does not in any way appear to refer to meat compared to "kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat."

if that is the case I am surprised there is not a huge uproar over such a mistranslation which must have been done on purpose (since you cant confuse something so different) if translators know gurumuki.

Thanks for link will read.

Well, there are many different versions of the translations and translators DO confuse words because of their command of English is poor.

Pritam Singh Chahil, probably comes close. Mcleods translations are not bad either.

The word for "meat" is "maas". Even someone with linited Gurumukhi can look at the transliteration and clearly see there is no mention of maas.

The Shabads are metaphorical, and need to be read in the sociological, historical, and economic context they were written it.

A Sikh means "to learn". If one wishes to be a parrot and recite all day then one can at the local Madrasa. Sikhs should activively learn, Bani and the meanings, and not recite one or two lines parrot fashion.

 

[Randip Singh]

Again "You kill people" vs "you kill living beings" makes an enormous difference

This again makes sense put this way, and I understand the metaphor but why do you think so many others have given it a different meaning? Surely to distort the words of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a serious misconduct?

I'm also confused as to how someone can mistake

"then tell me what do you call someone without religion?"
for
"Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action?"



are the definitions you have given the general consensus here?


Also if you don't mind me asking why did you not include these quotes and their analysis in your original article?

People misrepresent and mistranslate because:

1) Poor knowledge and command of the English language
2) They have Vashnavite tendancies, and translate with an Agenda. RSS, VHP,, Radaoswami etc etc all do this as well.
3) They actual do not understand Bani and the Metaphors. Many so called "Gyani's" are poorly educated.
4) They take one or two lines out of context.
5) The "so many you claim" are a few, however, this few have managed to spread their mis-information very widely.

So basically it a combination of ignorance, and deliberate misinformation.

...and really, there is not much of a difference between "living people" and "the living beings" if read in context. Especially if the trust of the shabad in the previous lines draws your attention to particular bahaviour. I don't this this shabad in anway shape or form, which ever way translated draws attention to eating habits.

 

[Shanger]

Shanger ji,

Guru Fateh.

By now, I assume you must have asked your Sikh parents or relatives about the same Shabads.

Can you share their opinions with us and enlighten us with their wisdom? In this collective way we can all learn from each other.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Hello, I asked them and wrote about it on the previous page-

I showed my parents and asked them what they thought it meant (I didn't show the english translation given)

My mum can read/write punjabi fine but she said this gurumukhi was too difficult to translate properly as she could only understand parts of it. Same with my dad.

I'm not close enough with any other relatives. I guess I could print the shabad and take it down to the local gurdwara.

So my parents were unable to give me their thoughts really since they couldn't understand it. I will like I said attempt to get the views of some gyanis possibly.

 

[Shanger]

Shanger ji,

Guru Fateh.

You mentioned that you are studying Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji now. Can you share with us which other scriptures from other religions you have already studied and if there is something comparative to the Shabads above from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

I can't honestly say that I've studied any religion in its entirety, but I've read parts from Islam & Christianity (only parts because a lot of the time, once I read a few errors I believe it renders the entire holy book void since it's a book from god which should at least be flawless etc), and I'm generally not impressed by either.

So far I haven't read enough of Sikhi to give you a proper answer. I'm also concerned with the translated version I'm reading since there are a few mistranslations which have already been highlighted in this thread.

Randip the site you gave for your recommended version does not work I think there might be a problem in the link?

Thanks

 

[Shanger]

People misrepresent and mistranslate because:

1) Poor knowledge and command of the English language
2) They have Vashnavite tendancies, and translate with an Agenda. RSS, VHP,, Radaoswami etc etc all do this as well.
3) They actual do not understand Bani and the Metaphors. Many so called "Gyani's" are poorly educated.
4) They take one or two lines out of context.
5) The "so many you claim" are a few, however, this few have managed to spread their mis-information very widely.

So basically it a combination of ignorance, and deliberate misinformation.

...and really, there is not much of a difference between "living people" and "the living beings" if read in context. Especially if the trust of the shabad in the previous lines draws your attention to particular bahaviour. I don't this this shabad in anway shape or form, which ever way translated draws attention to eating habits.

That explanation is fair enough.

I will see what translation whoever I manage to ask to translate, reaches and come back to this thread.

thanks

 

[Randip Singh]

I can't honestly say that I've studied any religion in its entirety, but I've read parts from Islam & Christianity (only parts because a lot of the time, once I read a few errors I believe it renders the entire holy book void since it's a book from god which should at least be flawless etc), and I'm generally not impressed by either.

So far I haven't read enough of Sikhi to give you a proper answer. I'm also concerned with the translated version I'm reading since there are a few mistranslations which have already been highlighted in this thread.

Randip the site you gave for your recommended version does not work I think there might be a problem in the link?

Thanks

Try this:

http://www.jsks.co.in/sggs_guru_granth_sahib_pritam_singh_chahil.htm

 

[spnadmin]

Randip Singhji

The link is returning the message Page Not Found. Shanger why don't you google: Sri Guru Granth Sahib Pritam Singh Chahil. That way you can even find different vendors and compare prices. This translation is not cheap.

 

[Randip Singh]

Randip Singhji

The link is returning the message Page Not Found. Shanger why don't you google: Sri Guru Granth Sahib Pritam Singh Chahil. That way you can even find different vendors and compare prices. This translation is not cheap.

Singh Bros Amritsar sell it for a reasonable price.

 

[Rajwinder]

Very nice article. i think by the time I will know what is correct and what not as per Sikhism, my life will be over. Already spent 30 years under impression that meat is not allowed under my religion and then came this article followed by my search on youtube

YouTube - Hazur sahib jhatka for tilak part1

What was written as per the last Rehat Maryada discussed by all scholars about meat and Sikhs ?

Unfortunately i think we have so many pracharak's all around and tons of followers who are not even willing to discuss about any change in what is been followed till now.

So i wish ( if not more ) Waheguru should give atleast patience and unbiased mind to people to discuss on topics like this.

 

[Randip Singh]

Very nice article. i think by the time I will know what is correct and what not as per Sikhism, my life will be over. Already spent 30 years under impression that meat is not allowed under my religion and then came this article followed by my search on youtube

What was written as per the last Rehat Maryada discussed by all scholars about meat and Sikhs ?

Unfortunately i think we have so many pracharak's all around and tons of followers who are not even willing to discuss about any change in what is been followed till now.

So i wish ( if not more ) Waheguru should give at least patience and unbiased mind to people to discuss on topics like this.

I think Rajwinder ji for me the answer is this and it is the only logical one. Sikhism does not forbid the consumption of meat, it does not allow the consumption of meat. For that matter, Sikhism does not forbid the consumption of vegetables and it also does not allow it......and so we can go on.

These matters are for individual conscience.

Even vegetarians have debates too. For instance some vegetarianism eat eggs because it is a waste product. Some vegetarians will drink milk products and not eat eggs. Some vegetarians will not drink or eat eggs (since milk in effect is cows blood cells or liquefied flesh).

Eat what ever you want and if you consume meat all agree that if you are baptised you cannot eat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutha_meat or Halal (Kosher or sacrificed) meat as per our Sikh Rehat Maryada.

Here is our Rehat Maryada:

http://www.sgpc.net/index-nm.html

 

[Rajwinder]

Dhanwaad Randip Singh Ji

 

[Shanger]

Can someone please explain what is happening in the above video please?



Thanks

 

[findingmyway]

Can someone please explain what is happening in the above video please?



Thanks

Something completely against gurmat

 

[kds1980]

Can someone please explain what is happening in the above video please?



Thanks

They are chatkaing a Goat and putting its blood on the shastars

 

[kds1980]

Something completely against gurmat

I think they are just following a tradition which was developed in wartime

 

[Randip Singh]

Something completely against gurmat

I think you will find this practice actually occurred within the precincts of the Golden Temple until the 1920's.

This is actually a Kshatriya tradition that spans the time of Guru Gobind Singh ji.

Hazoori Sikhs who still do this are said to be unpolluted from the Vashnavite influences on Punjabi Sikhs. So they would argue that it is us who have forgotten Gurmat!

Jhatka itself is not anti-Gurmat, but I think the Shastar Tilak or Shastar Puja is.