Booklet On Chandi Charitar (Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply To Issues By Dalbeer Singh Ji

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

I am not insulting anyone. I just posted quote from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You have issues with what Guru Granth Sahib Ji says? Would you say the same thing to Guru Nanak? Would you say that Guru Nanak was insulting other religions? Stating facts isn't insulting. Dasam Granth uses abusive language for Guru, Sikhs, Bhagats and other good people. I just give Dasam Granth its well deserved reply. I gave you challenge to live debate on Dasam Granth. What happened? You are in California and you said you are well settled in USA so why don't you come to Canada and have a live debate? What is stopping you?

The post i cited is written after you told Aman singh ji that you had no intention to insult any scripture, Anman ji had specifically written about tyour language for sri dasma granth ji..Read the line below.

Quote:
If you are talking about Dasam Granth, most Gurmat Gyani Sikhs don't consider it a Sikh scripture.

Unquote

You write that i have issues with SGGS ji. That is a fale statement. Will you please show me where i wrote that.

I discussed Dasam granth with you on waheguru network and you went away. I have record of that. I can cite the proof here. But let us not spoil the space of SPN for that.
This is not personal. It relates to a scripture whom sikhs accord respect .

I remember that 5 pyaras told me to only accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as my Guru. That is what I am doing. Do you think I should take up another Guru? If you do, I am sorry to tell you but I will not because I adhere to:

Of course we have only and only one Guru and that is SGGS ji. Panj piaras also tell to raed 5 banis and three of those are from Dasam Granth. Do not you read those?

Also, the time will come when Akaal Takht maryada will be amended to only include Guru Granth Sahib Ji rachnas in Amrit Sanchars. Like I said before, accept live debate challenge and prove us wrong. Then you will never have to waste time online trying to promote Dasam Granth because you will prove us wrong in live talk. Why don't you get this over with? Don't you want a big panthic issue solved?

Hold your slander till that time arrives. It may or may not arrive. Till then we follow akal takhat.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

QUOTE:
<<,,< Till then we follow akal takhat. >>>>>

ALL THE WAY...OR SELECTIVELY...PICK AND CHOOSE METHODS.
Example is on Banis...SRM of AT has a different set..but Taksalis/AKJ /nanksariahs follow a different set..
LONG Rehrass, arrills jagmata etc ..AT says FIVE banis..other read Seven...SO when we CHOSE which Banis to read..are we really "following" Akal takhat ??

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder Ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for agreeing to have a debate not a slandering match. Gurbani teaches us to be Sikhs- students which requires listening to the other side and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I would like to apologise for the times I have responded to your rude comments in the likewise manner.

As we are starting with a new perspective, I will refrain myself from the above and I hope you do the same. Let us all debate for the sake of learning- the sole objective of a Sikh rather than creating a war of egos; one of five enemies which SGGS- our only GURU teaches us how to take control of. It gives us all the tools. Let us use them collectively.

I know you want Akaal Takhat's authority to remain intact which I do agree with. However, Akaal Takhat should base its decision on the Gurmat ideals of SGGS- our only GURU, which it has not done many times. That is why in my opinion, Akaal Takhat has lost its temporal authority by issuing non Gurmat Hukumnaamas many of which were politically motivated.

Does Sikhi condone bigamy? Do you condone bigamy? You know very well that The Jathedar of Patna Sahib Takhat is an admitted bigamist. Unfortunately, I have not seen you condemn him for that. As you embrace Akal Takhat which includes the Jatehdars, then it is implicit that you also embrace a bigamist. Arn't these double standards? Are they based on Sikhi values?

I have asked you many times the questions about ex-communication by the Akaal takht which I have no idea why you have ignored. The honest debate demands that you respond for your own sake so we can understand the reasons you want to adhere to the decisions by the Akal Takhat.

Please respond to the above so we can have a frutiful interaction and also all can benefit from your Gurmat wisdom.

Tejwant Singh

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Aman Singh, discussions online aren't usually precise because I have seen so many unrelated quotes posted and long quotes posted to prove something which isn't even related to the topic. I have also seen misquoting. To answer all the misquotings and mistranslations would require proper translations. Proper translations can't be done in a second because wording is hard to give but in live talk, you can explain better because there is no need to write or give complete sentences. Hopefully you understand what I mean. You know well on what happened when we asked Pro Dasam Granth people to show us where Bhagautee is used for God in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We got a long post with quotes from Dasam Granth and some unrelated quotes from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That is why online debate isn't really useful sometimes.

Inder Singh, just to let you know about Waheguru network, they deleted my posts without any reason. They won't allow you to post certain quotes from Dasam Granth. I saw that they locked the thread and then deleted many of my posts. This is another reason why I say live debate with video recording.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder Ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for agreeing to have a debate not a slandering match. Gurbani teaches us to be Sikhs- students which requires listening to the other side and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I would like to apologise for the times I have responded to your rude comments in the likewise manner.

As we are starting with a new perspective, I will refrain myself from the above and I hope you do the same. Let us all debate for the sake of learning- the sole objective of a Sikh rather than creating a war of egos; one of five enemies which SGGS- our only GURU teaches us how to take control of. It gives us all the tools. Let us use them collectively.

I know you want Akaal Takhat's authority to remain intact which I do agree with. However, Akaal Takhat should base its decision on the Gurmat ideals of SGGS- our only GURU, which it has not done many times. That is why in my opinion, Akaal Takhat has lost its temporal authority by issuing non Gurmat Hukumnaamas many of which were politically motivated.

Does Sikhi condone bigamy? Do you condone bigamy? You know very well that The Jathedar of Patna Sahib Takhat is an admitted bigamist. Unfortunately, I have not seen you condemn him for that. As you embrace Akal Takhat which includes the Jatehdars, then it is implicit that you also embrace a bigamist. Arn't these double standards? Are they based on Sikhi values?

I have asked you many times the questions about ex-communication by the Akaal takht which I have no idea why you have ignored. The honest debate demands that you respond for your own sake so we can understand the reasons you want to adhere to the decisions by the Akal Takhat.

Please respond to the above so we can have a frutiful interaction and also all can benefit from your Gurmat wisdom.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant ji

I never took initiative to write to you in a rude manner. It is you who took initiative. My response was a reciprocation. Let us leave the blame game.

It will be proper if we focus our exchange of views on the topic on hand. The topic is
Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji.

Let us leave other topics or grievance to be discussed in a seprate thread.

No sikh ever disputes that SGGS ji is our Guru eternal. Let us not create a phantom when there is none. Please share your views on the thread.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

You know well on what happened when we asked Pro Dasam Granth people to show us where Bhagautee is used for God in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We got a long post with quotes from Dasam Granth and some unrelated quotes from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That is why online debate isn't really useful sometimes.

Khalsa fauj ji

Maenings of words will differ per the context these words are used. So the mening of Bhagauti ahs to be seen in that context. For example word Ram and shiv have dual meaning in SGGS ji. It means God and also mean hindu deities.

Inder Singh, just to let you know about Waheguru network, they deleted my posts without any reason. They won't allow you to post certain quotes from Dasam Granth. I saw that they locked the thread and then deleted many of my posts. This is another reason why I say live debate with video recording.

​

IN my view they deleted nothing. All posts are there and i had sparate record of my own. You were not under moderation. Even your obscen words for Dasam granths ahib are still there.

This debate has just sprung up two weeks ago. Remember i was asking you to arrange debate with darshan singh. You never came back. this is also on record.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

And Aman ji said this in Post 20:

We can resolve or choose to overlook such baseless accusations and move forward or we can keep on going in circles reaching nowhere. Just because he said you something does not mean that you are like that but then we indulge in counter allegations, personal attacks and vent our frustrations, we basically came down to their level.

... Keep on polishing your knowledge, which is the biggest weapon you have got. Only knowledge will nail your adversaries down.

This is good advice for everyone involved. Are we there yet?

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

My post has disappeared suddenly.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder Singh, like I said before, I don't know if it got into your notice but I don't have phone # of Prof. Darshan Singh. I do have phone # of Gurcharan Singh Jeonwala. Do you want to get his #? You can also have dicussion with me in Toronto. You can come here and we can set up the discussion.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Hold your slander till that time arrives. It may or may not arrive. Till then we follow akal takhat.

So please respond to my questions in the previous post which I am reposting below about the Akaal Takhat which is part of this thread.


Does Sikhi condone bigamy? Do you condone bigamy? You know very well that The Jathedar of Patna Sahib Takhat is an admitted bigamist. Unfortunately, I have not seen you condemn him for that. As you embrace Akal Takhat which includes the Jatehdars, then it is implicit that you also embrace a bigamist. Aren't these double standards? Are they based on Sikhi values?

I have asked you many times the questions about ex-communication by the Akaal Takht which I have no idea why you have ignored. The honest debate demands that you respond for your own sake so we can understand the reasons you want to adhere to the decisions by the Akaal Takhat.

Hope you respond like a person who is really interested in debating about Sikhi from all aspects.
Waiting to hear your views regarding Akaal Takhat whose Hukumnaamas we all want to abide by provided they are based on Gurmat Ideals given to us in SGGS- our ONLY GURU.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:



So please respond to my questions in the previous post which I am reposting below about the Akaal Takhat which is part of this thread.


Does Sikhi condone bigamy? Do you condone bigamy? You know very well that The Jathedar of Patna Sahib Takhat is an admitted bigamist. Unfortunately, I have not seen you condemn him for that. As you embrace Akal Takhat which includes the Jatehdars, then it is implicit that you also embrace a bigamist. Aren't these double standards? Are they based on Sikhi values?

I have asked you many times the questions about ex-communication by the Akaal Takht which I have no idea why you have ignored. The honest debate demands that you respond for your own sake so we can understand the reasons you want to adhere to the decisions by the Akaal Takhat.

Hope you respond like a person who is really interested in debating about Sikhi from all aspects.
Waiting to hear your views regarding Akaal Takhat whose Hukumnaamas we all want to abide by provided they are based on Gurmat Ideals given to us in SGGS- our ONLY GURU.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant ji

I do not condone bigamy at all. Excommunication is rooted in sikh hsitory.

But again this thread is not related to that. This relates to Chandi charitra. let us focus on that.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder ji

This is the connection between Tejwant's questions and the thread topic: The honest debate demands that you respond for your own sake so we can understand the reasons you want to adhere to the decisions by the Akaal Takhat. (quote from Tejwant ji)

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder ji

This is the connection between Tejwant's questions and the thread topic: The honest debate demands that you respond for your own sake so we can understand the reasons you want to adhere to the decisions by the Akaal Takhat. (quote from Tejwant ji)

Please start a new a new thread for that.There is no link between two. One pertains to bani of dasam Granth. The ohehr is a perceived grievance of an individual. Both are separate topics.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder ji

Thank you for your suggestion. If you believe that the two are unconnected then you are having a problem connecting the dots. We can forgive you for your perceived weakness in that area. The ball is in your court. Why should a skeptical forum member ignore the fact that authority rules with the consent of the governed? Tejwant is asking whether the Patna Sahib Takht has earned the consent of the governed? Is jathedar in question living within the law or above the law? I am sure you can answer those questions.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

We can forgive you for your perceived weakness in that area.

I am not able to understand what you mean by forgiveness. I am not standing a trial in a court of law and i do not need any forgiveness from anybody.

Why do not leave it to waheguruseeker to put the question. I hope we are not talking in terms of grupism here. Moreover focus on Topic .As a modeartor you should enforce rules here for maintaining sanctity of a thread.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

I am not able to understand what you mean by forgiveness. I am not standing a trial in a court of law and i do need any forgiveness from you.

Why do not leave it to waheguruseeker to put the question. I hope we are not talking in terms of grupism here. Moreover focus on Topic .As a modeartor you should enforce rules here for maintaining sanctity of a thread.

Khalsa ji

Forgiveness comes from the sangat. Acquittal comes from a court of law. To maintain the sanctity of this thread, admin should have closed it after the first few posts. I forgot -- sanctity can be restored by responding to a few questions you have left hanging out there.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Khalsa ji

Forgiveness comes from the sangat. Acquittal comes from a court of law. To maintain the sanctity of this thread, admin should have closed it after the first few posts. I forgot -- sanctity can be restored by responding to a few questions you have left hanging out there.

aad ji

You can close the thread if you like. I am not interested to answer same questions again and again and least of all in this thread. i hope i hope i have clarified this.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Fateh ji

I see your point. :whisling:

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder Singh Ji California.
Please tell me if you are williing to accept Dasam Granth to be wrong if Akaal Takht says so.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder Singh Ji California.
Please tell me if you are williing to accept Dasam Granth to be wrong if Akaal Takht says so.

Let akal takhat say this first. I am not inclined to answer a hypothetical question.