Booklet On Chandi Charitar (Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply To Issues By Dalbeer Singh Ji

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Prehlaad and other bhagats weren't mythical. You might want to prove them mythical for your hidden agenda.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Das does not has any hidden agenda, Can you elaborate about this imagination of hidden agenda? Kinldy qoute the statments of das.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Hidden agenda is to establish Dasam Granth as a Sikh scripture and promote Dasam Granth into Sikhs. Then using the same logic of God creating everything, bring purans, vedas, etc. into the Sikh faith. Basically, to break Sikhs from Guru Granth Sahib Ji as much as possible.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Well das is sorry but Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji are already part of Sikhism.

Which itself oppose Puranas and Vedas.

Lastly since the time of Brits, to the time of USSR supported communist, we are aware of hidden agenda of anti panthic forces.

First attack Shri Dasham Granth Sahib and then Shri Guru Granth Sahib.
Examples
Narakdharis/term used for Nirnakaris
Teja Singh Bhasaur
and at present coterie of leftist claiming to be missionary.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Who is we? Baal Thackrey and company? Devi bhagats?
Hindus are very good at infiltrating other religions and corrupting them from their core foundations. Hindus will do anything for the love of their devi. They will dress and Sikhs and then start cutting the roots of Sikhism, Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Their mission is to break Sikhs from Guru and connect them to writings of poets Shyam, Raam and Kaal. You are the one who always attacks Guru Granth Sahib by saying it promoters vishnu bhagtee. Who else is needed to attack Guru Granth Sahib?

How about karamkaadi laalas acting as Sikhs? Narakdharis are same as Dasam Granth. Both are trying to break Sikhs from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. THey are the same coin. Just different sides. Devi bhagats say that there is no Sikh without Dasam Granth while narakdharis say no muktee without narakdhari baba. They both have the same mission. Finish SIkhism by breaking Sikhs from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Well das is sorry but Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji are already part of Sikhism.

Another Dasam Granth is on the way or are there more Dasam Granth types already?

 

[spnadmin]

One word of caution and for moderation ji

The "infiltration" of Sikhism by Hindus is not infiltration by "hindus," a hard word to define as it is. I personally am not opposed to everything you are saying. However, as a religion, Hinduism is a collection of vedantic panths, with very different views of God and religious practice. Let's not create a polarity involving "Hindus."


Now my personal view: The political side of this is what needs to be laid out in the sun.

India has been a democracy for scantly more than 50 years. Before, during and after the mad scramble for influence and control at liberation, Sikhs were double-crossed in the battle for control and influence over Sikh identity and political rights. By more than one political interest group, with the political elite being predominantly Hindu. In the mad scramble to retain influence and control after liberation, some Sikhs have decided to fall in with the "other side" and will compromise even the fundamentals of faith to gain an elite position.

They are the modern day Mahants -- those who would not open the doors of Harimandir Sahib to Guru Tej Bahadur. These are voices who say "I know what is best for you. Let me put you on the right path. Let me pull out a tuk here and a tuk there of Sri Guru Granth Sahib to prove that we are on the same side with the hindus. This is the path to gaining political influence. " To put it more crudely: The goal is to form an alliance with influential political operatives at a cost. The cost - dilution of Sikh religious identity and political self-determination.

And you know that this has been going on -- before, during and after the raj. The continued, and centuries-long, "infiltration" is not about religion. It is about politics by religion and religion as politics.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Who is we? Baal Thackrey and company? Devi bhagats?
Hindus are very good at infiltrating other religions and corrupting them from their core foundations. Hindus will do anything for the love of their devi. They will dress and Sikhs and then start cutting the roots of Sikhism, Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Their mission is to break Sikhs from Guru and connect them to writings of poets Shyam, Raam and Kaal. You are the one who always attacks Guru Granth Sahib by saying it promoters vishnu bhagtee. Who else is needed to attack Guru Granth Sahib?

How about karamkaadi laalas acting as Sikhs? Narakdharis are same as Dasam Granth. Both are trying to break Sikhs from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. THey are the same coin. Just different sides. Devi bhagats say that there is no Sikh without Dasam Granth while narakdharis say no muktee without narakdhari baba. They both have the same mission. Finish SIkhism by breaking Sikhs from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.



Another Dasam Granth is on the way or are there more Dasam Granth types already?

Dear brother,

Well we stand for mainstream Sikhism.

Das is sorry that you have misunderstood the das.

It was one of the comredi guy who wrote in spokesman in December 2005 which wanted to bifurcate some texts of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji based upon Hindu Avtar related to Vishnus.

Thing over here is that if a Hindu attacks over here, it was to be seen that how could champions like yourself could defend the attacks on Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

very soon there is a Guy a Veer from USA, who is Anti to Shri Dasam Granth Sahib and people have started to call him Guru.

Brother could interpret the mission of leftist also to finish off and uproot Sikhs by one of the example which you have given.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bhagats/27023-1-2.html

you people get called Dasam Granthiyas because you love Dasam Granth. We love Guru Granth Sahib Ji and accept joats of Guru Nanak over poet Shyam so you can call us Nanakvaadis or followers of Nanakian philosophy.

Do we have term Nanakwadi in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?
Yes there are terms like Marxwadi/marxist, Leninwadi/Leninist, Maowadi/Maoist.

Is this not the proof to bring Guru Maharaj intothe class of these leftist heros ?

Lastly

One word to Sister Naryanjot Kaur Ji.

Well over here term Vedantic should not be used.

Vedanta is one of the latest of Hindu ideology which is baed upon Upnishads.

Some Upnishads even condem vedism.

Hindu is all the more racial abuse to the native people of India by Iranian/Aryan invaders.

They have no power. They are dying a slow death.

Leftist make a big issue of them among us(Sikhs), so that we are entrapped into thier idelogy.

It is thier game plan. presently today at Devali, while das went to S. Harjinder Singh Alwar's house.Das saw a big lock at Arya Samj Temple of Delhi's Vikas Puri. No young recruit is coming to right wing RSS. They dies of thier own burdan.

Leftist are parasite. They consume orthodox chruch, Rama Krishna Mission and now are after Gurmat.This time we will digest them.Akal Bless.

 

[spnadmin]

Gurfateh

They have no power. They are dying a slow death.

Leftist make a big issue of them among us(Sikhs), so that we are entrapped into thier idelogy.

It is thier game plan. presently today at Devali, while das went to S. Harjinder Singh Alwar's house.Das saw a big lock at Arya Samj Temple of Delhi's Vikas Puri. No young recruit is coming to right wing RSS. They dies of thier own burdan.

Leftist are parasite. They consume orthodox chruch, Rama Krishna Mission and now are after Gurmat.This time we will digest them.Akal Bless.

vijaydeep ji

All that I have quoted above is yet even more of an illustration of my earlier point

They are the modern day Mahants -- those who would not open the doors of Harimandir Sahib to Guru Tej Bahadur. These are voices who say "I know what is best for you. Let me put you on the right path. Let me pull out a tuk here and a tuk there of Sri Guru Granth Sahib to prove that we are on the same side with the hindus. This is the path to gaining political influence. "

To put it more crudely: The goal is to form an alliance with influential political operatives at a cost. The cost - dilution of Sikh religious identity and political self-determination.

The cure for what ails us is not the creation of a new and modernized political cult of Mahants.

Also -- the very fact that you identify those who disagree with you as "leftists" and in other threads "atheists" and "communists" siding with China just proves how clearly I am describing your tactics. This has nothing at all to do with religion. Your essays on Sri Guru Gobind Singh and Batchitar Natak are not about Sikhism, they are bullets being shot on behalf of a purely political agenda. This is about your political views, and of those who are affiliated with you in various claques in and around Indore.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Sister,

Brother accused me of attacking Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And other thing were too said. So he was replied.

Das is sorry but Indore guys do not have faith in Raagmala, while das has. They do not relish meat which is non Kutha. Das eats it.

They carry Bebeck das does not. Fact is that some teachers of das are hated upon by Indore guys.

You are the one who always attacks Guru Granth Sahib by saying it promoters vishnu bhagtee. Who else is needed to attack Guru Granth Sahib?

Dear Sister,

Further to it, when non Sikh attacks something we do not have to join his /her side. We should retaliate.

If you could get the preface of this book tranlated, you will understand the motive of Das.
http://gurmatvichar.info/files/Gani_Dit_Singh_Final.pdf

Das has not launched any personal attack on brother TKF Ji, only thing das wanted to clarify is that he understands das wrongly. Same way his statements could be misinterpreted.

As per Nayay Marg of Arya Samaji this is called Vitandana. This is done a lot by MR Ambala, Mr Kala Afghana and Mr JS Mann.

Das is sorry for any misundrstanding

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Person who says poet Shyam is poet Shyam is misleading humanity while someone who says poet Shyam is Guru Gobind Singh Ji is leading humanity? Please. Also, you keep taking personal shots and say you don't do any personal attacks. You keep calling leftist, maoist, lennist, kala afganism, etc and got to senses when truth of devi bhagat came out. Nanakvaadi means someone who follows Guru Nanak's dharam. Is there an issue with the word Nanakvaadi or Nanakian philosophy? Should we use Poet SHyamvaadi or Chariteropakhyanvaadi?

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Term Vad means thisis as per marxism, which has pratiwad meaning anti thesis. which further leads to Samvad or synthis.

Das thinks Sikhism is the view of God, who also has name Syam as primal black hole being that's attribute.

Term Vad is refered to something called debate in Shri Guru Granth Sahib JI.

ਪੰਨਾ 230, ਸਤਰ 10
ਵਾਦਿ ਵਿਰੋਧਿ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ ॥
वादि विरोधि न पाइआ जाइ ॥
vāḏ viroḏẖ na pā▫i▫ā jā▫e.
Through argument and debate, He cannot be found.
ਮਃ 3 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Das thinks that Gurmat end all the Vads/ism/thesis.
[/SIZE]

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

What does vaad meaning debate have to do with the topic on hand? Just trying to act clever by going off topic? I won't bother commenting on that. Yes, I am part of an ism. It is called Sikhism. Gurmat is a marg. Marg is a way of life. A way of life is based on belief systems. A belief system is usually linked to ism. E.g. asceticism, atheism, humanism, individualism, monotheism, etc.

One one hand you quote, you don't find God by doing vaad and virodh yet you are here trying to do virodh to promote Poet Shyam as 10th Nanak. I have no duality over Dasam Granth. I know it is work of poets: Shyam, Raam and Kaal. I also know that my only Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Not some third party book(s).

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,
"Ism" path leads to vads or debate to them so they are called Vads in either way.So das was not taking the thing out of context.

Gurmat is way of God and God makes the chosen one to move on it.

There is only one Guru and that is Akal only.All rest is perishable. You yourself use title Akali. Ram, Syam and Kal are attribute of Akal.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

I use Akaali because I am a believer of Akaal; not devi joo kee ustat.

Poet Shyam is name of poet and Kaal is by no means a name used for God. Kaal means spiritual death. God isn't spiritual death. God takes us out of spiritual death.

You say everything is God then what does:
Parmesure Tay Bhullea, Viapan Sabhay Roag mean?

God is forgetting God? Weird eh? This is what happens when someone tries to literally portray everything as God. We discussed before, God doesn't come or go so how does he write books? Jantar mantar?

Just like Raam Chander had Raam in his name, poet Raam has Raam in his name. Poet Shyam has Shyam in his name. Looks like Guru Gobind Singh Ji made a mistake when writing Guru Granth Sahib Ji, he should have used Raam, Shyam, Kaal, etc. instead of Nanak eh? Vijaydeep know more than Guru Gobind SIngh Ji eh?

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Often we do mistake when we treat term Nanak as poet, it is often second person in Shri Guru Granth Sahib, when Akal whose attributes are Ram/All pervading, Syam/Primal Darkness and Kal/end to creation.

So Akal can write.

As Akal can do anything.
Page 968, Line 14
ਆਪੇ ਪਟੀ ਕਲਮ ਆਪਿ ਆਪਿ ਲਿਖਣਹਾਰਾ ਹੋਆ ॥
आपे पटी कलम आपि आपि लिखणहारा होआ ॥
Āpe patī kalam āp āp likẖaṇhārā ho▫ā.
He Himself is the paper, He Himself is the pen, and He Himself is the writer.
Balwand & Sata - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

when Akal makes one of self manifestation ie human to forget self's manifestation as primeal lord, that is equal to having all ailment. Again no offence to anyone or Gurbani should be taken, litraly aethist do not have faith in God, forgets the God, that is equal to all ill health, then say he/she is infested by ill health.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

What do you mean by Nanak is 2nd person in Gurbani? Nanak is the writer, Nanak had discussion with Siddas. Based on your thinking, God was debating God?

Also, based on above logic, I am not writing anything either. It is gospel from God. Accept it and put an end to discussion. Why waste time when you know God is writing on other side too?

Why does Gurbani say: Kahu Nanak or Kahu Kabeer and not Kahu Shyam or Kahu Raam?

Are poets of Dasam Granth smarter or Guru?

Other than that, I have noted that quote from Gurbani and will try to understand what the message is.

Look, poet Shyam will always be poet Shyam. Just like Vijaydeep will always be Vijaydeep. You probably want to write some poetry saying Kab Vijaydeep and want us to understand it as Light of Victory, God writing poetry. It just won't happen. You can try though. Poet Shyam became successful for a while, you might as well.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
It may means Say Oh Nanak!

Das hopes you have understood this dear brother!

These could be words of God to Six Forms of Gurus.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

May or could or should isn't the answer to anything. Facts are facts. Fact is Nanak, is the stamp used by Gurus. Bhagats have their own stamp. Poets have their own such as Shyam, Raam and Kaal.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Stamp is the name God calls for the receiver dear brother.

 

[spnadmin]

Gurfateh
It may means Say Oh Nanak!

Das hopes you have understood this dear brother!

These could be words of God to Six Forms of Gurus.

This is new - what are the six forms of Gurus??? Please, if you decide to respond to my question, answer it in terms of Guru Mat. Thanks