Booklet On Chandi Charitar (Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply To Issues By Dalbeer Singh Ji

[spnadmin]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

1. .

Read my post carefully before you attribute something i have not said.This seems tom be usual habit. I said that I know Giani Gurbachan singh an dhe had come to attend my son's wedding . I did not say that i opened this topic with him on the wedding.

I think you need to know sikh cutoms before talking .

Where did I say that? Oh forgive me. This is what you actually said, "Present jathedar of akal takhat came for reading lavan of my son in Chandigarh in 2005. That time he was head Granthi of Harmandir sahib. I talk to him frequently. There seems to be no move for such an imaginary question." You did not have a conversation with him at your son's wedding. But you talk to him "frequently." Forgive me mistatement.

However that is still name-dropping and an appeal to authority, and you have not given a logical answer.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Where did I say that? Oh forgive me. This is what you actually said, "Present jathedar of akal takhat came for reading lavan of my son in Chandigarh in 2005. That time he was head Granthi of Harmandir sahib. I talk to him frequently. There seems to be no move for such an imaginary question." You did not have a conversation with him at your son's wedding. But you talk to him "frequently." Forgive me mistatement.

However that is still name-dropping and an appeal to authority, and you have not given a logical answer.

Is it an offence to talk to akal takhay jathedar if you happen to know him.If so let me know. What answer you want from me on that?

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Where did I say that? Oh forgive me. This is what you actually said, "Present jathedar of akal takhat came for reading lavan of my son in Chandigarh in 2005. That time he was head Granthi of Harmandir sahib. I talk to him frequently. There seems to be no move for such an imaginary question." You did not have a conversation with him at your son's wedding. But you talk to him "frequently." Forgive me mistatement.

However that is still name-dropping and an appeal to authority, and you have not given a logical answer.

Is it an offence to talk to akal takhay jathedar if you happen to know him.If so let me know. What answer you want from me on that?

In Punjabi society we have very intimate relations and respect for each other. So visiting each other is quite common.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder ji

I always avoid name-dropping if I can.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder ji

I always avoid name-dropping if I can.

I was talking to khalsa fauj and did not you notice that he mentione name of Jathedar Vedanti ji. You did not object to him for name dropping.

So we have cultural diference. It is not an offence. We have to live that.

May i request that you are being an extra picky on useless things.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Inder Singh, don't try to act smart. I have video evidence from Fateh Divas. I don't need to rely on unrelated pictures. You can also watch evidence on www.singhsabhacanada.com if you go into the Video section and watch videos related to Dasam Granth. Inder Singh, you are like an uncle. You shouldn't be lying here.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gurfateh

Vijaydeep Singh Ji,
Gurfateh.

I am disappointed with your use of derogatory language..Comrade Dalbeer..when in Fact he is Sardar Dalbeer SINGH. Even if he is a Card Carrying Communist Party Member..he is still entitled to hsi name being properly addressed. S. Gurcahran Singh Tohra was a Comrade/atheist..and he was president of SGPC for 25 years as per instructions of Comrade Surjit Singh with connivance of Indira Congress to infiltrate and destroy sikh institutions/sgpc etc..BUT all still refer to him as Jathedar g.S. Tohra and not "comrade tohra"
I respect you...and expect the decorum to be maintained. Let not such langauge destroy/undermine the issues discussed...
Chardeekalla

Respected Gyani Sahib Ji,

Das is sorry, but will not hesitate if some one calls him comrade Vijaydeep Singh. As Akal is with all so as a Sikh das is with Comrades also.

Lastly there are two types of comrades, one who are overt, while others who pose as Sikhs.

Then there are atheists/ leftist who are supporter of Tenth Master's verse also. Fact is that das had not started the work against the wrong understadning of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji, by Dr. Gumukh Singh Ji of Delhi, is only due the the fact that people related to the Tarksheels /logicals etc. are also planing to challenge Dr Sahib.

Das has seen respected Haqeem T{censored}em Singh Ji, who is worth worship for das having a rough time with these people. Fact is that some pro Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji told das to not to reveal this.But you are a father figure and Das could not conceal any thing. There are comrades in pro loby also.

Das is only great full to Singh Sahib Dalbeer Singh ji for giving the points and if any offend is made to his personality, then das puts his head on his feet and yous too Singh Sahib Ji.

forgive comrade vd Singh. Folded hands. All work das is doing is to convince missionaries only and no one else.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gurfateh

Guru Sahib took TEN jamas..a long period of 250 YEARS..2 and half centuries..to Bring about a PARADIGM SHIFT....
Just see how the Christian Church FAILED to change "manmatt pagan rituals"...even the Christmas day, SUNday..Moonday..etc etc halloween..etc etc and had to ADOPT these...as "christian" simply becasue the PUBLIC REFUSED to let go....
Modern sikhi is also going that way..we have FAILED/REFUSED to let go of Jaatpaat, rakhrees, and holis, diwalis and karva chauths...shiv lings and kali matas.....maalas and mantras...when GURU JI THREW THIS ENTIRE LOT into the RUBBISH DUMPSTER...we picked it all back !!!

Respected Gyani Sahib Ji,

on ground, we find that Christian sects (Orthodox, Catholics)nearer to so called Pagan as per protestants are more in number and still on faith, while those trying to reform them have rather become atheists. So it is lesson for us that instead of being introovert and self conscious, we need to be extrovert and aggressive. Das has never seen so called Missionary Sikhs coming out to fight for Sikh issues that much, then so called with pagan influence.

Just for a time being could we think that there could be hand of some outside power say our rulers in colonial or secular era, who are trying to divide us ?

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gufateh

Vijaydeep, once again you have just copy pasted a shabad. Where in the original text does it say Khan? If not, then how did you get Sulhee Khan? Other than that, we can talk this shabad at live debate.

Bhatts did khandan of devi devtas, avtaarvaad and other karam kaands. They explained what Nanak's philosophy is and informed people to follow only Aad Purakh, Sdaa Sthir, Waheguru. Your talk also shows that you don't have clear understanding of Bhatt swayas.

Also, like I said before, Nanak joats are Nanak. In Guru Granth Sahib Ji Nanak name is there. That is all that matters. Bhagats had same philosophy as Guru Nanak so they got their place in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Dasam Granth is nasty material so it isn't even work of a Sikh, let alone Guru Ji. You saying that Akaal wrote Dasam Granth holds no value because Akaal Purakh isn't a physical entity to write books or literature. It is easy to change religion but very hard to change manmat.

Brother,

Well, Das awaits the live debate but will require your address and phone number also beofre we go for it, so that it is video grapphed and be let us be seen face to face and let us then, put it on patshahi10.org.

Tomorw we can have an issue that term Nanak Dev is not used. So without Dev this could not be the First Master.Akal Bless.

So please explain here also along side the live debte so that forum of SPN could also understand.

You say Bhatts did Khandan of demigods, please gives some examples.

Brother as per Das none of the Six Gurus or any Sikh or any Bhagat made any contribution to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, all was work of God. They only recorded.

So sorry for divergent views of a believers.

God follows no rules but makes them and then change them else how could that be God.

a few more issues das kept for you while typing at home pasted below.


Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Your self put two points.

• In the context of History, capability of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is limited. You have put this. OK. Do you agree that in case of politics, diplomacy, espionage ,warfare, psychology etc. same thing applies. If yes then can not Guru arrange for something else them our eternal Guru to guide us. We have peeri/spirituality from Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji, what about meeri/political and rulers aspect ? As per Bhai Veer Singh Ji, in Devi Pujan Partal, Tenth Master wrote Charitra to make brain sharp.
• Das would like from a you an explicit verse which tells that in house of Nanak, we need to have poet name as Nanak ?

(੧੨੭੪-੧੫, ਮਲਾਰ, ਮ ੧)
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧੦॥੩॥
kahu naanak thujh thae man maaniaa keemath kehan n jaaee ||10||3||
Says Nanak, through You, O Lord, my mind is pleased and appeased; I cannot express Your worth. ||10||3||

​

15 Malaar Guru Nanak Dev
Ang 1274

Bhai why can not the term says be say ?

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Guru Nanak's name is Nanak because this is what Bhai Gurdas also says:

Nanak Nirmal Panth Chalaaeaa

Also, you not understanding bhatt swayas isn't my problem. We can show you how bhatts do khandan of avtarvaad when you talk. Come to Toronto to have live debate. Jaswinder Singh is in India, have live debate with him if you like to have it in India. He has given challenge to 1 crore rupees if you prove to him that DG is Guru Gobind Singh Ji's work.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gurfateh
Bro, there is a Nihung from opposite camp of the Das,Gyani Sher Singh of Ambala. As per him this guy(Jaswinder Singh) had no money to pay.

What das is trying to convey is that Bhai Gurdas also talks of wrong meaning of Wahiguru as per Bhai Kahan Singh Ji Nabha, our Gyani Ji also have no faith on his Vars. As per some Veer of missionaries, Bhai Gurdas is tout of Brahmin.

Had vars been OK with Gurbani, why did not Tenth Master or Ninth Master put them in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

Anyway, we need to understand that Nanak is often the addressed and not the poet in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This das thinks and differ from yourself yet respect you views.

Forgive das for having a different view
Page 230, Line 10
ਵਾਦਿ ਵਿਰੋਧਿ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ ॥
वादि विरोधि न पाइआ जाइ ॥
vāḏ viroḏẖ na pā▫i▫ā jā▫e.
Through argument and debate, He cannot be found.
Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

You don't find God by arguing or debate. This is 100% correct. Why are you arguing to prove Dasam Granth right? Guru Granth Sahib Ji says:

Ika Bani Ik Gur Ikko Shabad Veechaar

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gurfateh
Ika Bani Ik Gur Ikko Shabad Veechaar

Bro When this Bani was there and before it, we Had only Akal as our Guru and Shri Guru granth sahib came afterwards. Then only Akal was Guru, when Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji come then only Akal was Guru via that Akal guides us.

Das is not arguing but singing the glory of God as perceived by him.Sorry for something clumsy by das.As das thinks this thing too das may not be able to let you understand, fault lies with das only.We are not good and no one is Bad.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

So Dasam GRanth is Guru now? According to whom? Those who pray to stones also say they are singing glory of God.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Vijaydeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You said:

Then only Akal was Guru, when Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji come then only Akal was Guru via that Akal guides us.

Your above statement is incorrect and false.

First and foremost AKAAL IS, not was, hence the name AKAAL.

Secondly, who says what you have claimed above about the Dasam Granth? Please provide evidence.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Vijaydeep, you said Akaal guides us as per Dasam Granth. Akaal of Dasam Granth is none other than kaal. How can one who himself is stuck in kaal take out others to lead them to Akaal? You also asked me to where do bhatts do khandan of avtaarvaad. What do you mean by that? You mean bhatts do mandan of avtaarvaad? You brought in the Jas Rath Raaye Nand Raajaa Mayraa tukh but you failed to mention:

pWfy qumrw rwmcMdu so BI Awvqu dyiKAw Qw ] rwvn syqI srbr hoeI Gr kI joie gvweI QI ] 3] {gurU gRMQ swihb jI, pMnw 875}
Paanday Tumraa Raamchand So Bhee Aavat Dekheaa Thaa || Raavan Saytee Sarbar Hoaee Ghar Kee Joaye Gvaaee Thee || 3||
Oh Pandit! I saw your Raam Chandar arrive too. He was involved in a war against Raavan and lost his wife. 3.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Vijaydeep, you said Akaal guides us as per Dasam Granth. Akaal of Dasam Granth is none other than kaal. How can one who himself is stuck in kaal take out others to lead them to Akaal? You also asked me to where do bhatts do khandan of avtaarvaad. What do you mean by that? You mean bhatts do mandan of avtaarvaad? You brought in the Jas Rath Raaye Nand Raajaa Mayraa tukh but you failed to mention:

pWfy qumrw rwmcMdu so BI Awvqu dyiKAw Qw ] rwvn syqI srbr hoeI Gr kI joie gvweI QI ] 3] {gurU gRMQ swihb jI, pMnw 875}
Paanday Tumraa Raamchand So Bhee Aavat Dekheaa Thaa || Raavan Saytee Sarbar Hoaee Ghar Kee Joaye Gvaaee Thee || 3||
Oh Pandit! I saw your Raam Chandar arrive too. He was involved in a war against Raavan and lost his wife. 3.

Khals fauj ji

Are following not from Dasam Garnth

ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਅਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੇ ॥
नमसत्वं अकाले ॥ नमसत्वं क्रिपाले ॥
Salutation to Thee O Timeless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Beneficent Lord!

ਅਕਾਲ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਅਜਾਲ ਹੈਂ ॥੩੭॥
अकाल हैं ॥ अजाल हैं ॥३७॥
Thou art Immortal Lord! Thou art Unbound Lord! 37.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

We can dicuss that during live talk. Agree?

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gurfateh

Vijaydeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You said:



Your above statement is incorrect and false.

First and foremost AKAAL IS, not was, hence the name AKAAL.

Secondly, who says what you have claimed above about the Dasam Granth? Please provide evidence.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

Dear Singh Sahib,

Truth at start, Truth at Ages, Truth is and Oh Nanak, Truth will always be. That is Akal.

When das says that Akal was our Guru at one point of Time, that does not means that Akal is not our Guru at present or will not be our Guru in future.

Vitandana is work of Nayaydarshi Brahmins, where they take partial truth and try to bring is against the whole Truth. So Akal is our Guru still. Akal is Guru to all Before any text came, and after the text also. No text is eternal but Akal is eternal.

So if das says that Akal was Guru in past also, that will never mean that Akal was Guru in Past only.

Regarding the proofs. Well In Vachitar Natak Sahib Chapter 6, read it and do not go by tranlation, if yourself find some doubts than das could help you. So see the Charrtrpakhyan Sahib 1, Line 3, verse 3,verse 46.

Likewise Ram, Shyam and Kal are name of God. For that read Akal Ustat Sahib and First Chapter of Chaubees Avtar.

There is an other question, why there is no mention of word Nanak, when Tenth Master gave us guidance to deem Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our living Guru. Some thing like Mahala and then 10, the says Nanak, Behold Granth as Guru ?

And some more things.


ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਰ ਮੈ ਗਹਿਓ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਸਮ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
राम नामु उर मै गहिओ जा कै सम नही कोइ ॥
Rām nām ur mai gahi▫o jā kai sam nahī ko▫e.
I have enshrined the Lord's Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it.

ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਸੰਕਟ ਮਿਟੈ ਦਰਸੁ ਤੁਹਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੭॥੧॥
जिह सिमरत संकट मिटै दरसु तुहारो होइ ॥५७॥१॥
Jih simraṯ sankat mitai ḏaras ṯuhāro ho▫e. ||57||1||
Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||57||1||
(Ang 1429)

And then another verse at the same Ang

ਤਰਸੁ ਪਇਆ ਮਿਹਰਾਮਤਿ ਹੋਈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਜਣੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ॥
तरसु पइआ मिहरामति होई सतिगुरु सजणु मिलिआ ॥
Ŧaras pa▫i▫ā mihrāmaṯ ho▫ī saṯgur sajaṇ mili▫ā.
You took pity on me, and blessed me with Your Mercy, and I have met the True Guru, my Friend.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾਂ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਥੀਵੈ ਹਰਿਆ ॥੧॥
नानक नामु मिलै तां जीवां तनु मनु थीवै हरिआ ॥१॥
Nānak nām milai ṯāʼn jīvāʼn ṯan man thīvai hari▫ā. ||1||
O Nanak, if I am blessed with the Naam, I live, and my body and mind blossom forth. ||1||

Ang 1429

So question is that why term Ram comes and not Nanak on the latest verse of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

Is Akal a student of 2 year missionary course conduct by atheist that should follow some rule and not start some unique thing, in unique faith of Sikhs that Akal will assume a poet to give direct verse to the followers of self ?

Akal Bless and Thanks a lot for giving an opportunity to sing the praise of Akal. Vide yourself does Akal makes das to sing the glory of Akal.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gurfateh

As per Sikh Rahit Maryada in normal circumstances Sikh should have one wife. What about abnormal circumstances ? First Wife of Jathedar Takhat Patna eloped with a granthi. He remarried. Later on first wife returned. He accepted her too.

What would a Sikh Missionary do in such circumstances ?

Anyway why should not we have more wives and out number Hindus and Muslims as we are having many problems which are abnormal. Some of us kill doughter ,while other have only one son.This is something off the topic anyway.