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Booklet On Chandi Charitar (Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply To Issues By Dalbeer Singh Ji

Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
First Article about Dr Hirdaijeet Singh Bhogal’s article of Chandi Charitar Ek Vishleshan.
Point1. Being a pure mythological literature, it could not be a Gurbani ,this is what Comrade Dalbeer Ji are trying to deduced. A red salute to him. Why can not Gurbani be a spiritual literature ,which is work of God. Does not mythological themes like Gaja, Prahlad or Ganika used in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? By any way there is no rule which deprives Gurbani, an attribute of being a literature. So as whole Gurbani is literature and work of God so calling something ligature or Gurmat Sahitya is not wrong.

Point2. As per comrade Dalbeer Ji, we are told that Chandi Chairtar is deto translation of Markandya Puran. This is false. Like term Brahm Kavach is not in Markandya Purana. Likewise we do not have Devi being created demigods anywhere in Chandi Charitar. Rebirth of Surath as Survarni Manu in future is also not there in Chandi Charitar. So comrade should have not done such blunders of talking the falsehood.

Point3. Why did not this braveness encouraging verse useful, for last 1000 years when nation was enslaved ? How did Sixth Master fought the war?
Answer1. It was never in local tongue when goddess of outcastes/lower castes was told to be fighting the evil in their own lingua franc nor before this the natives were having an access to such stories. They were restricted to upper castes only. Have-nots got encouragement first time.
Answer2. Sixth Master never went to fight. It was forced unto them 4 times by Moghuls. While actions of Tenth Masters were pre emptive like the war of Nadaun or sending force led by Sahibzada to rescue a bride from Hoshiarpur. In fact verse of Tenth Master only made Sikhs aspire to rule. People who oppose these verse work on the payroll of the forces who wants to keep Sikhs enslaved. Such traitors will never be pardoned by Panth. In the name of Panth they are warned.

Point 4. Science is told here to see that how could one goddess could come out of head of another demigoddess ? How could this be Gurmat? Well what about this verse in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Where we have fish and lotus giving firth to creatures. In fact comrade uses low level science of Tenth Standard or matriculation. In future we will se science doing wonders when we may have cloning, asexual reproduction etc. We may have reproduction with help of DNA etc of other creatures.


(੧੩੦੯-, ਕਾਨੜਾ, )
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਮਲ ਪੁਤੁ ਮੀਨ ਬਿਆਸਾ ਤਪੁ ਤਾਪਨ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਵੈਗੋ
breham kamal puth meen biaasaa thap thaapan pooj karaavaigo ||
Brahma, the son of the lotus, and Vyaas, the son of the fish, practiced austere penance and were worshipped.
7 Kaanrhaa Guru Ram Das
(Ang 1309)

Point 5. Over here comrade talks of loosing of fear with one verse of Shri Guru Granth Sahib then why could all fears be removed by reading the Chandi Charitra ?

Let us see this verse

(੭੪੬-੧੩, ਸੂਹੀ, )
ਮਹਾ ਦੁਤਰੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਜੈਸੇ ਪਵਨੁ ਝੁਲਾਇਆ
mehaa dhuthar maaeiaa || jaisae pavan jhulaaeiaa ||1||
Maya is very treacherous and difficult to pass through. It is like a violent wind-storm. ||1||
12 Soohee Guru Arjan Dev


(੭੪੬-੧੩, ਸੂਹੀ, )
ਸੁਨਿ ਸੁਨਿ ਹੀ ਡਰਾਇਆ
sun sun hee ddaraaeiaa ||
I am so afraid to hear
13 Soohee Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 746)

Over here there is fear of Maya or materialistic manifestation of God.
(੨੯੩-, ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ, )
ਨਿਰਭਉ ਜਪੈ ਸਗਲ ਭਉ ਮਿਟੈ
nirabho japai sagal bho mittai ||
Meditating on the Fearless Lord, all fear departs.
8 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev


(੨੯੩-, ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ, )
ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਛੁਟੈ
prabh kirapaa thae praanee shhuttai ||
By God's Grace, mortals are released.
8 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 293)

Well first das would like to ask comrade that he lives in Faridabad while in his article sometimes he gives address without house number, in karol bagh ,Delhi while some times he gives address of Punjabi Bagh,Delhi. Suppose he is called at Budhadal head quarter or say in group of guys say from Taksal or Akhand kirtani Jatha. Can he come alone ? Has comrade overcome his fear ?)

Anyway when we are detached and librated fear is gone by mercy of Akal. That’s what is there, the essence of verse quoted by comrade deals with such kind of fear getting eliminated. Das doubts that comrade has his own fear eliminated. While in new situations ie to be pre emptive to gain political sovereignty, we have new situations and new kinds of fear, ie fear of known while venturing an unknown territory for invasion. Good can not defeat bad but after being worst only bad will be defeated. Not a single contributor of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji faced such situation when attacking of enemy was the job to gain power in political arena. Fears in this area were removed by Tenth Master who had a shift in his policy. Foundations were laid by Baba Nanak, but functioning only started during the time of Tenth Master. In new acts new fears and so a new fear removing verses.

Article 2 “Bhagouti Sambandhi Mahan Agiyanta Bhariya Bhulekah” By Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh Ji.

Point 1. There has been no instance in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or any Kosh from where Bhai Sahib have proved that Khanda in form of name of God is true Bhagouti and remembering name is to remember the Bhagouti. Well this only proves the level of spirituality of the comrade.

Das has few question to him.

Is there any reference in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,which prove that name of Eieght Master was Shri Guru Harkishan Sahib Ji ? That Tenth Master gave Guruship to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? That Sikhs should have 5 kes ? etc.

If he could not prove it from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, then he has no right to belive, if we go by his own logic. Coming to kosh. They were made much after the periods of Gurus, Bhai Sahib Ji were spiritually well placed and companion of Akali Phula Singh Ji from whose legacy das is affiliated . Bhai Sahib’s saying something itself is proof.

Often missionary say that Sikhs consider Bhai Sahib or Baba Nand Singh as “Guru”. Well true Sikh is form of Guru. While missionaries are Sikhs of Not the Guru Granth Sahib Ji but interpretations of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji based upon their leftist ideology of atheism.

Name breaks(Khanda) the mammon(Maya). Bhag is womb and Bhagwan is male personification of one with womb or source of creation. Bhagwati is female personification. The missionary who claim to be from Nari Manch and other communist name never want to address God as female. God is genderless so could be address both in masculine gender and well as feminine gender. Guru Parbati Mai(Japu Sahib, for us Guru or God is mother goddess also).

Point 2. The name is only Mool Mantra, not goddess and why is it missing in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji. Comrade starts with a verse from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in Gaurhi Sukhmani saying that name has all creations. Or name behold all creatures. This itself proves that name pervades in all. Then on what basis does comrade says that Mool Mantra only is name? It is not something restricted the way das capital restricts the dualistic materialism. By the way where is in Shri Guru Granth Sahib, we have from Ek Onakar to Satiguru Prasad referred to as Mool Mantra ? Das challenges comrade to prove it. Then are Mantra allowed in Sikhism at all ? There are many places in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where abbreviated version “Ek Oankar Satiguru Prasad” is used. Same is repeated in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji. Reason for Tenth Master using abbreviation is that he knew that all people reading his text has already read Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So if we write first all 26 alphbets ie abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz once, then write a to z stand for the same. A person who reads this text, later can find a to z in other text implying one and the same thing.

There is no restriction on Guru for his always repeating whole and not abbrivations.

Das has another question for general knowledge. Did any where in Bani of Second Master do we have “Mool Mantra” ?

Das has faith in “Mool Mantra” and “Gur Mantar” also but Das is not Guru Granth Sahib purist like Kala Afghana or comrade. So Gurmanter is there many a time in verses of Tenth Master with “Ek Onkar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh”. So of Bani of Second Master does not has full of “Mool Mantra” yet is Gurbani. So this criteria of not using whole Mool Mantra fails

Point 3. Poet Syam is used here, which as per comrade, is some human, while poet Syam is God only and all the Gurbani is work of God.

ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਾਰਦਾ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਮੰਗਲਾ ਮਿੜਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਿਆਮ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੇਤ ਹੋ
Kahoon devbaanoo kahoon Saardaa Bhavaanoo kahoon Manglaa miraanookahoon siaam kahoon set ho||
Somewhere Thou art the divine speech, somewhere Sarada and Bhavani, somewhere Durga, the trampler of corpses, somewhere in black colour and somewhere in white colour.
Line 9
(Akal ustat)

(੭੪੫-, ਸੂਹੀ, )
ਸਿਆਮ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਤਜਿ ਨੀਦ ਕਿਉ ਆਈ
siaam sundhar thaj needh kio aaee ||
Forsaking the Beautiful Lord, how can they go to sleep?
2 Soohee Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 745)

Then comrade talks of Shiv Purana, which is no where mentioned. We will talk more about it later when he talks of half Shiv and Parwati.

Then he talks of commission of mistake. Which are nothing but mark of humbleness as we find them in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


(੭੦੨-੧੮, ਜੈਤਸਰੀ, )
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
17 null null


(੭੦੨-੧੮, ਜੈਤਸਰੀ, )
ਭੂਲਿਓ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਉਰਝਾਇਓ
bhooliou man maaeiaa ourajhaaeiou ||
My mind is deluded, entangled in Maya.
18 Jaitsaree Guru Teg Bahadur


(੭੦੨-੧੮, ਜੈਤਸਰੀ, )
ਜੋ ਜੋ ਕਰਮ ਕੀਓ ਲਾਲਚ ਲਗਿ ਤਿਹ ਤਿਹ ਆਪੁ ਬੰਧਾਇਓ ਰਹਾਉ
jo jo karam keeou laalach lag thih thih aap bandhhaaeiou ||1|| rehaao ||
Whatever I do, while engaged in greed, only serves to bind me down. ||1||Pause||
18 Jaitsaree Guru Teg Bahadur
(Ang 702)


(੮੫੫-੧੫, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਮੈ ਬਿਗਰੇ ਅਪਨੀ ਮਤਿ ਖੋਈ
mai bigarae apanee math khoee ||
I am spoiled; I have lost my intellect.
15 Bilaaval Saint Kabir


(੮੫੫-੧੫, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਮੇਰੇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੂਲ ਮਤਿ ਕੋਈ
maerae bharam bhoolo math koee ||3||
Let no one go astray in doubt like me. ||3||
15 Bilaaval Saint Kabir
(Ang 855)
(੧੦੮੭-੧੪, ਮਾਰੂ ਵਾਰ-, )
ਸਲੋਕੁ
salok ma 1 ||
Shalok, First Mehl:
14 null null


(੧੦੮੭-੧੪, ਮਾਰੂ ਵਾਰ-, )
ਭੂਲ ਭੂਲੀ ਮੈ ਫਿਰੀ ਪਾਧਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਕੋਇ
bhoolee bhoolee mai firee paadhhar kehai n koe ||
Confused and deluded, I wander around, but no one shows me the way.
14 Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੦੮੭-੧੫, ਮਾਰੂ ਵਾਰ-, )
ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਇ ਸਿਆਣਿਆ ਦੁਖੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਕੋਇ
pooshhahu jaae siaaniaa dhukh kaattai maeraa koe ||
I go and ask the clever people, if there is there anyone who can rid me of my pain.
15 Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 1087)


(੭੫੬-੧੧, ਸੂਹੀ, )
ਮਨ ਮੂਲਹੁ ਭੁਲਿਆ ਜਾਸਹਿ ਪਤਿ ਗਵਾਇ
eae man moolahu bhuliaa jaasehi path gavaae ||
O mind, if you forget the Primal Lord, you shall depart, having lost your honor.
11 Soohee Guru Amar Das
(Ang 756)
(੭੬੧-, ਸੂਹੀ ਕਾਫੀ, )
ਜੇ ਭੁਲ ਜੇ ਚੁਕੀ ਸਾੲ​*​* ਭੀ ਤਹਿੰਜੀ ਕਾਢੀਆ
jae bhulee jae chukee saaeanaee bhee thehinjee kaadteeaa ||
Even though I have made mistakes, and even though I have been wrong, I am still called Yours, O my Lord and Master.
7 Soohee Kaafee Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 761)

(੭੬੨-੧੦, ਸੂਹੀ, )
ਹਉ ਏਨੀ ਟੋਲੀ ਭੁਲੀਅਸੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਕੰਤ ਬੈਠੀ ਪਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ
ho eaenee ttolee bhuleeas this kanth n baithee paas jeeo ||
I have been fooled by these decorations, and I do not sit near my Husband Lord.
10 Soohee Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 762)

(੨੬੦-, ਗਉੜੀ, )
ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਹਮ ਭੂਲਨਹਾਰ
saas saas ham bhoolanehaarae ||
With each and every breath, I make mistakes.
7 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 260)

We have poet Akal being telling to pray Akal as poet to let there be rectification of the mistake.

Then comrade talks of another issue that as

(੪੬੩-, ਵਾਰ-ਆਸਾ, )
ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਆਪੁ ਸਾਜਿਓ ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਾਉ
aapeenhai aap saajiou aapeenhai rachiou naao ||
He Himself created Himself; He Himself assumed His Name.
4 Aasaa Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 463)

As per comrade first God created self then God’s name and how could child be name without birth. Strange thing. Is not God eternal? Can God be born ? Comrade himself not understanding the “Mool Mantar”. In fact verse given above never say that God first created “himself/herself” and then created “his/her” name(God is genderless so both gender are used). It is own interpretation of comrade. We need to understand by this that by self only did(God do) self manifestation, By self only name(of) was made. As God is not created by anyone else so is name also not created by any one else. This is something being conveyed. Then another logical thing based upon fifth Hindu philosophy of jusfication based upon logic or Nayay Shastra is given which says that Satinam,which is name of God comes after Ek Oankar. While in Mool Mantra we have that from One God(Ek) Onkar(creation) occurred. That’s name only is true. So as Akal is lord of all so all name are of Akal and Satinam is not the only name of God rather it is an attribute that tells that God’s name is only true. In fact another comrade I S Ghugga once said that all Guru Granth Sahib Ji are name. We have semen, vagina, egg, genital among many such things mentioned in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. All are name. Name is vibration which makes the quarks, which form nuclear matter, which makes atom. So that vibration only is true rest is manifestation which will change(Jo Banat Hai So Binas Hai Paro Haj Ke Kal).

Das hopes that remaining things about tying the beard or meat eating things over here are out of context.

But let us first resolve the issue of Khanda



ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ
Khan?aa prithmai saaj kai jin sabh saisaar(u) upaaiaa||
At first the Lord created the double-edged sword and then He created the whole world.
Line 4
(Var Durga Ki)


(੧੭੧-, ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ, )
ਕਾਮਿ ਕਰੋਧਿ ਨਗਰੁ ਬਹੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਖੰਡਲ ਖੰਡਾ ਹੇ
kaam karodhh nagar bahu bhariaa mil saadhhoo khanddal khanddaa hae ||
The body-village is filled to overflowing with sexual desire and anger, which were broken into bits when I met with the Holy Saint.
6 Gaurhee Poorbee Guru Ram Das
(Ang 171)

Khanda means to break.

So universe is rearranged by changing the permutation and combination of matter by God. That is like breaking and creating thereafter.

So as per Var Durga Ki first created then broke it and then all world(s) were created.

See in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


(੮੩੯-, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਆਪੇ ਸਚੁ ਕੀਆ ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ
aapae sach keeaa kar jorr ||
The True Lord Himself created the universe, joining the elements together.
4 Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਅੰਡਜ ਫੋੜਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਵਿਛੋੜਿ
anddaj forr jorr vishhorr ||
Breaking the cosmic egg, He united, and separated.
5 Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਧਰਤਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਕੀਏ ਬੈਸਣ ਕਉ ਥਾਉ
dhharath akaas keeeae baisan ko thhaao ||
He made the earth and the sky into places to live.
5 Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਰਾਤਿ ਦਿਨੰਤੁ ਕੀਏ ਭਉ ਭਾਉ
raath dhinanth keeeae bho bhaao ||
He created day and night, fear and love.
5 Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖਣਹਾਰਾ
jin keeeae kar vaekhanehaaraa ||
The One who created the Creation, also watches over it.
5 Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev


(੮੩੯-, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਅਵਰੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰਾ
avar n dhoojaa sirajanehaaraa ||3||
There is no other Creator Lord. ||3||
6 Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 839)


(੧੧੭-, ਮਾਝ, )
ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ
maajh mehalaa 3 ||
Maajh, Third Mehl:
8 null null


(੧੧੭-, ਮਾਝ, )
ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲ ਸਬਦੇ ਹੋਵੈ
outhapath paralo sabadhae hovai ||
Creation and destruction happen through the Word of the Shabad.
8 Maajh Guru Amar Das


(੧੧੭-, ਮਾਝ, )
ਸਬਦੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ
sabadhae hee fir oupath hovai ||
Through the Shabad, creation happens again.
8 Maajh Guru Amar Das
(Ang 117)

Word/sound(each word nominate something so each word is “name” of some action,verb or adjective etc). That is essence of creation.



(੯੨੯-੧੮, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਦਖਣੀ, )
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
17 null null


(੯੨੯-੧੮, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਦਖਣੀ, )
ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਉਤਪਤਿ
ouankaar brehamaa outhapath ||
From Ongkaar, the One Universal Creator God, Brahma was created.
18 Raamkalee Dakhnee Guru Nanak Dev


(੯੨੯-੧੮, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਦਖਣੀ, )
ਓਅੰਕਾਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਚਿਤਿ
ouankaar keeaa jin chith ||
He kept Ongkaar in his consciousness.
18 Raamkalee Dakhnee Guru Nanak Dev


(੯੨੯-੧੮, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਦਖਣੀ, )
ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਸੈਲ ਜੁਗ ਭਏ
ouankaar sail jug bheae ||
From Ongkaar, the mountains and the ages were created.
18 Raamkalee Dakhnee Guru Nanak Dev


(੯੨੯-੧੮, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਦਖਣੀ, )
ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਬੇਦ ਨਿਰਮਏ
ouankaar baedh nirameae ||
Ongkaar created the Vedas.
18 Raamkalee Dakhnee Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 929)
(੯੩੦-, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਦਖਣੀ, )
ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਉਧਰੇ
ouankaar sabadh oudhharae ||
Ongkaar saves the world through the Shabad.
1 Raamkalee Dakhnee Guru Nanak Dev


(੯੩੦-, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਦਖਣੀ, )
ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤਰੇ
ouankaar guramukh tharae ||
Ongkaar saves the Gurmukhs.
1 Raamkalee Dakhnee Guru Nanak Dev


(੯੩੦-, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਦਖਣੀ, )
ਓਨਮ ਅਖਰ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ
ounam akhar sunahu beechaar ||
Listen to the Message of the Universal, Imperishable Creator Lord.
1 Raamkalee Dakhnee Guru Nanak Dev


(੯੩੦-, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਦਖਣੀ, )
ਓਨਮ ਅਖਰੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਸਾਰੁ
ounam akhar thribhavan saar ||1||
The Universal, Imperishable Creator Lord is the essence of the three worlds. ||1||
1 Raamkalee Dakhnee Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 930)

Oankar referred to creation.

Point 4. Terms used by Bhai Sahib Ji are from which Kosh/dictionary yet they are not from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Well does Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji means a Kosh? There are many things as mentioned before are not in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji, yet part of Sikhism.

Point5. More info about Bhagouti will be given further.

Article 3 from the book “Hum Hindu Nahin “ By Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha.

Comrade says that to prove that Bhagouti is Masculine or feminine gender, useless things are written. Comrade fails to substantiate the uselessness. He says that lines meanings are not explained. He should have quoted those lines. He claims that no decisive fact emerges from this. But does not provide proof of it. Then he tells to move to 7th article for more info

Article 4. From Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Ji “Bhagaouti Pad Da Tat Gurmat Nirnai”

Point 1. As per comrade from First to Ninth Master no one has ever used terms like Asipan, Mahakal etc . So as per logic of comrade as Nine Masters before the Tenth Master did not gave Singh as surname so we have no validity to behold it for us. Non of the Nine Master did use term Khalsa or did they use ? So comrade should have name Dalbeer Das as per this logic. Ok das is Hindu type so better to use Dalbeer Khan(in Farsi Khan means Mr. So Ghenghis Khan was not a Muslim at al but a shamanist) .

Then comrade does by one quote from Ang 885.



(੮੮੫-੧੮, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, )
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ
raamakalee mehalaa 5 ||
Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:
18 null null


(੮੮੫-੧੮, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, )
ਜਪਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਲਾਲੁ
jap gobindh gopaal laal ||
Meditate on the Lord of the Universe, the Beloved Lord of the World.
18 Raamkalee Guru Arjan Dev


(੮੮੫-੧੯, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, )
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਤੂ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਖਾਈ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ ਰਹਾਉ
raam naam simar thoo jeevehi fir n khaaee mehaa kaal ||1|| rehaao ||
Meditating in remembrance on the Lord's Name, you shall live, and the Great Death shall not consume you ever again. ||1||Pause||
19 Raamkalee Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 885)

Then he quotes Ang 1028


(੧੦੨੮-੧੮, ਮਾਰੂ, )
ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਰਮਈਆ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ
ghatt ghatt rameeaa raam piaaraa ||
My Beloved Lord is pervading each and every heart.
18 Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev
(but very cleverly he omits the line before it ie



(੧੦੨੮-੧੮, ਮਾਰੂ, )
ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ
maaroo mehalaa 1 ||
Maaroo, First Mehl:
18 null null


(੧੦੨੮-੧੮, ਮਾਰੂ, )
ਅਸੁਰ ਸਘਾਰਣ ਰਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ
asur saghaaran raam hamaaraa ||
My Lord is the Destroyer of demons.
18 Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੦੨੮-੧੮, ਮਾਰੂ, )
ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਰਮਈਆ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ
ghatt ghatt rameeaa raam piaaraa ||
My Beloved Lord is pervading each and every heart.
18 Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 1028)

So das has question. As per comrade Mahakal is spirituality destroyer satanic entity.

By these words comrade proved that what level of spirituality vis-à-vis Gurmat he has.

Do we belive that there is satan in Gurmat ? Comrades do go by dualistic materialism where we have thesis ,anti thesis and synthesis.

But in Gurmat there is only ie Akal.


(੪੮੫-, ਆਸਾ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ
sabh gobindh hai sabh gobindh hai gobindh bin nehee koee ||
God is everything, God is everything. Without God, there is nothing at all.
3 Aasaa Saint Nam Dev
(Ang 485)

So Ram is in all and does kills demon. Mahakal is form of Ram only who may eat up person as super death who do not remember the name of God, super death means rebirth and death again. So Here too Mahakal is name of or attribute of God, Who is not good for non spiritual persons. God is good, to defeat evil, to defeat bad, God is not good but worst. Our comrade as per his reading of Sikhism has to deem Mahakal as worst. As he has yet understood Ram is Ramyya or absorbed in Mahakal. By that form does demons are killed. For demons Ram is not beautiful or piaira.

Then he cribs over the verse 125 of Charitropakhyan 266. Which is “by making him disciple of Mahakal , (made him) drink wine, cannabis..125.1..”

Here too he ignores the line succeeding this line.
By this deception, Brhamin was decived, got stone(idols) drown(in water).
by making him disciple of Mahakal , (made him) drink wine, cannabis..125.1..

There are many temples of Mahakal(of Shaktas) in Delhi, Comrade could go there. There is another very popular name of Mahakal(of Shaktas), the husband of Mahakali. But name Mahakal is not complete of the husband of Mahakali Bhairavi. That Mahakal of Shaktas is separately mentioned in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib. So called Hindu Mahakal worshipper is an idolater or even some time stone(pindi) worshiper.

The fact is Charitrpakhyan 266 has main part of dialogue between a Brahmin and a princess, In which she tells him the worthlessness of occult, worship of goddess and gods. After not winning her in debate, Brahmin accuses her of being under the influence of cannabis (verse 36). So as per Brahmin worship of formless is like drug. At last she succeeds in weaning him away from worship of demigods etc. Term usage of wine, cannabies signifies this only. In other parts of the Chartrpakyan 266, we do find a good lot of usage of term drugs just to signify Akal’s worship(Verse 38) or some time telling an idol worshipper lower then drug addict(verse 58,71)


(੭੨੧-੧੦, ਤਿਲਗ, )
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
10 null null


(੭੨੧-੧੦, ਤਿਲਗ, )
ਭਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਂਗ ਖਲੜੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ
bho thaeraa bhaang khalarree maeraa cheeth ||
The Fear of You, O Lord God, is my marijuana; my consciousness is the pouch which holds it.
10 Tilang Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 721)

.

(੯੬੯-੧੦, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਦਾਸੁ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਤਾਸੁ ਮਦ ਮਾਤਾ ਉਚਕਿ ਕਬਹੂ ਜਾਈ
dhaas kabeer thaas madh maathaa ouchak n kabehoo jaaee ||3||2||
Slave Kabeer is intoxicated with that wine, which never wears off. ||3||2||
10 Raamkalee Saint Kabir
(Ang 969)

So intoxication with cannabis or wine is used for devotion.

Like wise Gurmat does not talk of heaven but heaven in proximity of lord.


(੧੧੬੧-੧੦, ਭੈਰਉ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਭਿਸਤ ਨਜੀਕਿ ਰਾਖੁ ਰਹਮਾਨਾ ੧੫
bhisath najeek raakh rehamaanaa ||4||7||15||
Keep me near You, O Merciful Lord God - that is heaven for me. ||4||7||15||
10 Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 1161)

Just to comrade understand similarity here and verse from Chartropakhyan given above ie By making follower of God, Brahmin as if got cannabis, wine partaking.

Then comrade talks of God riding a chariot as per Charitropakhyan 405.

What about God riding Garuda?


(੧੧੬੬-, ਭੈਰਉ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਆਏ ਗੋਪਾਲ ੧੬
garurr charrhae aaeae gopaal ||16||
and the Lord came, mounted on the eagle garura. ||16||
4 Bhaira-o Saint Nam Dev
(Ang 1166)

Then comrade talks of bow and arrow in hand.

Let us similar thing in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


(੯੮੮-੧੪, ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਕਰ ਧਰੇ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਤੇ ਆਏ ਗਜ ਹਸਤੀ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਉਧਾਰੀਅਲੇ
kar dhharae chakr baikunth thae aaeae gaj hasathee kae praan oudhhaareealae ||
You hold the steel chakra in Your hand; You came down from Heaven, and saved the life of the elephant.
14 Maalee Gaurhaa Saint Nam Dev
(Ang 988)

Before we proceed further Garuda or eagle over there is not Sabad or holy verses as verses and Akal are one and same. Garuda used spell only where there is a mention of serpent also.

Then about sweat coming out of God.

Well first let us talk of nose and hairs of God.



(੫੬੭-, ਵਡਹੰਸੁ, )
ਤੇਰੇ ਬੰਕੇ ਲੋਇਣ ਦੰਤ ਰੀਸਾਲਾ
thaerae bankae loein dhanth reesaalaa ||
Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful.
9 Vadhans Guru Nanak Dev


(੫੬੭-, ਵਡਹੰਸੁ, )
ਸੋਹਣੇ ਨਕ ਜਿਨ ਲੰਮੜੇ ਵਾਲਾ
sohanae nak jin lanmarrae vaalaa ||
Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long.
9 Vadhans Guru Nanak Dev


(੫੬੭-, ਵਡਹੰਸੁ, )
ਕੰਚਨ ਕਾਇਆ ਸੁਇਨੇ ਕੀ ਢਾਲਾ
kanchan kaaeiaa sueinae kee dtaalaa ||
Your body is so precious, cast in gold.
9 Vadhans Guru Nanak Dev


(੫੬੭-੧੦, ਵਡਹੰਸੁ, )
ਸੋਵੰਨ ਢਾਲਾ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮਾਲਾ ਜਪਹੁ ਤੁਸੀ ਸਹੇਲੀਹੋ
sovann dtaalaa kirasan maalaa japahu thusee sehaeleeho ||
His body is cast in gold, and He wears Krishna's mala; meditate on Him, O sisters.
10 Vadhans Guru Nanak Dev


(੫੬੭-੧੦, ਵਡਹੰਸੁ, )
ਜਮ ਦੁਆਰਿ ਹੋਹੁ ਖੜੀਆ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਮਹੇਲੀਹੋ
jam dhuaar n hohu kharreeaa sikh sunahu mehaeleeho ||
You shall not have to stand at Death's door, O sisters, if you listen to these teachings.
10 Vadhans Guru Nanak Dev


(੫੬੭-੧੧, ਵਡਹੰਸੁ, )
ਹੰਸ ਹੰਸਾ ਬਗ ਬਗਾ ਲਹੈ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਜਾਲਾ
hans hansaa bag bagaa lehai man kee jaalaa ||
From a crane, you shall be transformed into a swan, and the filth of your mind shall be removed.
11 Vadhans Guru Nanak Dev


(੫੬੭-੧੧, ਵਡਹੰਸੁ, )
ਬੰਕੇ ਲੋਇਣ ਦੰਤ ਰੀਸਾਲਾ
bankae loein dhanth reesaalaa ||7||
Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. ||7||
11 Vadhans Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 567)

Comrade if you say that Bhagat Bani and Bhatt Swayyes are interpolation then what about the verse above unto the First Master.

Then das challenges you Oh! comrade who says that God has no body to tell that is there any Body which is not of God?

Coming to term Praset from verse 109 of Charitropakhyan. It may not means sweat only. Sweat is Prased also. But praset also could be derived from Prasoot or delivery. Let us talk of watery sweat only. Read the verse 196 of Charitropakhyan 405. We find God transparent like water. So such transparent body giving out such refractive visual object lead to the creation of bards.

(੩੮੭-, ਆਸਾ, )
ਓਪਤਿ ਪਰਲ ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਕਰਤਾ
oupath paralo khin mehi karathaa ||
He creates and destroys in an instant.
2 Aasaa Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 387)

Point 2. it is self contradictory that at one time we say that it is translation of books related to demigoddess while on the other we are told that we should not behold the demigoddess over there?

Contradiction is only due to the substandard knowledge of comrade.

Let us give only a few examples over here.

In Akalustat we have Akal addressed as killer of buffalo demon. Verse 211 to 220.

Likewise there itself we find



ਕਹੂੰ ਸਸਤ੍ਰਧਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਬਿਦਿਆ ਕੇ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਮਾਰਤ ਅਹਾਹੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਨਿਕੇਤ ਹੋ
Kahoon sastradhaadoo kahoon bidiaa ke bichaaroo kahoon maarat ahaaroo kahoon naar ke niket ho||
O Lord! Somewhere Thou art an armed warrior, somewhere Thou art an armed warrior, somewhere a learned thinker, somewhere a hunter and somewhere an enjoyer of women.
Line 8


ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਾਰਦਾ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਮੰਗਲਾ ਮਿੜਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਿਆਮ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੇਤ ਹੋ
Kahoon devbaanoo kahoon Saardaa Bhavaanoo kahoon Manglaa miraanookahoon siaam kahoon set ho||
Somewhere Thou art the divine speech, somewhere Sarada and Bhavani, somewhere Durga, the trampler of corpses, somewhere in black colour and somewhere in white colour.
Line 9


ਕਹੂੰ ਧਰਮ ਪਾਮੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਰਬ ਠਉਰ ਗਾਮੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਜਤੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਕਾਮੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਲੇਤ ਹੋ
Kahoon dharam dhaamoo kahoon sarab thaur gaamoo kahoon jatoo kahoon kaamoo kahoon det kahoon let ho||
Somewhere Thou art abode of Dharma (righteousness), somewhere All-Pervading, somewhere a celibate, somewhere a lustful person, somewhere a donor and somewhere a taker.
Line 10


ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਰੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਬਿਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਤ੍ਰਿਗੁਨ ਅਤੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੁਰਗੁਨ ਸਮੇਤ ਹੋ ੧੪
kahoon Bet root kahoon taa sio biproot kahoon trigun atoot kahoon surgun samet ho||4||14||
Somewhere Thou workest in accordance with Vedic rites, and somewhere Thou art quite opposed to it; somewhere Thou art without three modes of maya and somewhere Thou hast all gldly attributes.4.14.
(Akal Ustat 14)


ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਰਤ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਭਯੋ ਦ੍ਵੈ ਤੇ ਏਕ ੂਪ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਯੋ
Ih bidh(i) karat tapasiaa bhayo|| Dvai te ek roop hvai gayo||
In this way, my meditation reached its zenith and I became One with the Omnipotent Lord.
Line 6
(Vachitar Natak 6.4)

Guru became one with God. Why not from three to one and why from two to one ?

As Guru is one with God so let us see some more things from Vachiatar Natak. From verses 14. 4 and 14.7

ਜਿਹ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧ ਮੈ ਲਖੇ ਤਮਾਸਾ ਚਾਹਤ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਕੀਯੋ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸਾ
Jih jih bidh mai lakhe tamaasaa|| Chaahat tin ko kooo prakaasaa||
The kinds of spectacles that I have seen, I want to enlighten (the world) about them.
Line 1


ਜੋ ਜੋ ਜਨਮ ਪੂਰਬਲੇ ਹੇਰੇ ਕਹਿਹੋ ਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਰਾਕ੍ਰਮ ਤੇਰੇ
Jo jo janam poorbale bere|| Kahiho su Prabh(u) praakram tere||4||
All the past lives that have peeped into, I shall speak about them with Thy Power.4.
(Vachitar Natak 14.4)

ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਕਰਣਾ ਤਬ ਭਰੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਜਾਨ ਦਯਾ ਰਸ ਢਰੇ
Sarab kaal karnaa tab bhare|| Sevak jaan dayaa ras ?hare||
Then my Lord, Destroyer of all, was filled with kindness and considering me as His servant, He was gracefully pleased.
Line 7


ਜੋ ਜੋ ਜਨਮ ਪੂਰਬਲੋ ਭਯੋ ਸੋ ਸੋ ਸਭ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਕਰ ਦਯੋ
Jo jo janam poorbalo bhayo|| So so sabh simran kar dayo||7||
The births of all the incarnations in the previous ages, He hath caused me to remember all of them.7.
Line 8

(Vachitar Natak 14.7)
Manifestation of Akal ie Tenth Master became one with Akal by mercy of Akal and older acts in older life became visible. So it is not the ditto as in so called Hindu texts but Guru wrote as per will of Akal and demigoddess is nothing but a manifestation of Akal. Akal only did in form of demigoddess.

Let us see.



ਚੰਡੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ

NAME OF THE BANI.

Page 175, Line 5


ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ
Ik Oankaar Waheguroo joo koo Fateh||
The Lord is one and the Victory is of the Lord.

Page 175, Line 6


ਅਥ ਚੰਡੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਉਕਤਿ ਬਿਲਾਸ
Ath Chan?oo charitra Ukat(i) Bilaas||
New begin the extraordinary feats from the Life of Chandi:

Page 175, Line 7


ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ
Swaiyaa||
SWAYYA

Page 175, Line 8


ਆਦਿ ਅਪਾਰ ਅਲੇਖ ਅਨੰਤ ਅਕਾਲ ਅਭੇਖ ਅਲੱਖ ਅਨਾਸਾ
aadh apaar alekh anant akaal abhekh alakkh anaasaa||
The Lord is Primal, Infinite, Account less, Boundless, Deathless, Garbless, Incomprehensible and Eternal.

Page 175, Line 9


ਕੈ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤ ਦਏ ਸ੍ਰੁਤਿ ਚਾਰ ਰਜੋ ਤਮ ਸੱਤ ਤਿਹੂ ਪੁਰ ਬਾਸਾ
Kai Siv sakat dae srut(i) chaar rajo tam satt tihoo pur baasaa||
He created Shiva-Shakti, forur Vedas and three modes of maya and Pervades in three worlds.

Page 175, Line 10


ਦਿਉਸ ਨਿਸਾ ਸਸਿ ਸੂਰ ਕੈ ਦੀਪ ਸੁ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਰਚੀ ਪੰਚ ਤੱਤ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸਾ
Dius nisaa sas(i) soor kai doop su sristtee rachoo panch tatt prakaasaa||
He created day and night, the lamps of sun and moon and the whole world with five elements.

Page 175, Line 11


ਬੈਰ ਬਢਾਇ ਲਰਾਇ ਸੁਰਾਸੁਰ ਆਪਹਿ ਦੇਖਤ ਬੈਠ ਤਮਾਸਾ
Bir ba?haae laraae suraasur aapah(i) dekhat baith tamaasaa||1||
He extended enmity and fight between the gods and demons and Himself seated (on His Throne) scans it.1.

Page 175, Line 12


ਦੋਹਰਾ
Dohraa||
DOHRA

Page 175, Line 13


ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਸਿੰਧ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜੋ ਕਛੁ ਮੋ ਪਰਿ ਹੋਇ
Kripaa sindh tumroo kripaa jo kachh(u) mo par(i) hoe||
O Ocean of Mercy, if Thy Grace is bestowed upon me:

Page 175, Line 14

ਰਚੋ ਚੰਡਕਾ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸੁਭ ਸਭ ਹੋਇ
Racho chan?akaa koo kathaa baanoo subh sabhh hoe||2||
I may compose the story of Chandika and my poetry be all good.2.

Page 176, Line 1


ਜੋਤ ਜਗਮਗੈ ਜਗਤਿ ਮੈ ਚੰਡ ਚਮੁੰਡ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡ
Jot jagmagai jagat(i) mai Chan? Chamun? prachan?||
Thy light is shining in the world, O Powerful Chand-Chamunda!

Page 176, Line 2


ਭੁਜ ਦੰਡਨ ਦੰਡਨਿ ਅਸੁਰ ਮੰਡਨ ਭੁਇ ਨਵ ਖੰਡ
Bhuj dan?an dan?an(i) asur man?an bhue nav khan?||3||
Thou art the Punisher of the demons with Thy strong arms and art the Creator of the nine regions.3.

Page 176, Line 3


ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ
Swaiyaa||
SWAYYA

Page 176, Line 4


ਤਾਰਨ ਲੋਕ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਭੂਮਹਿ ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਨ ਚੰਡ ਤੁਹੀ ਹੈ
Taaran lok udhaaran bhoomah(i) dait sanghaaran Chan? tuhoo hai||
Thou art the same Chandika, who ferries across the people; Thou art the redeemer of the earth and destroyer of the demons.

Page 176, Line 5


ਕਾਰਨ ਈਸ ਕਲਾ ਕਮਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਅਦ੍ਰਸੁਤਾ ਜਹ ਦੇਖੇ ਉਹੀ ਹੈ
Kaaran oos kalaa kamlaa har(i) adrasutaa jah dekhe uhoo hai||
Thou art the cause of the Shakti of Shiva, Lakshmi of Vishnu and Parvati, the daughter of Himavan, wherever we see, Thou art there.

Page 176, Line 6


ਤਾਮਸਤਾ ਮਮਤਾ ਨਮਤਾ ਕਵਿਤਾ ਕਵਿ ਕੇ ਮਨ ਮੱਧਿ ਗੁਹੀ ਹੈ
Taamastaa mamtaa namtaa kavitaa kavi ke man maddh(i) guhoo hai||
Thou art Tams, the quality of morbidity, mineness and modesty; Thou art poetry, latent in the mind of the poet.

Page 176, Line 7


ਕੀਨੋ ਹੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਲੋਹ ਜਗਤ੍ਰ ਮੈ ਪਾਰਸ ਮੂਰਤ ਜਾਇ ਛੁਹੀ ਹੈ
Koono hai kanchan loh jagatra mai paaras moorat jaae chhuhoo hai||4||
Thou art the philosopher’s stone in the world, which transforms the iron into gold that it touches.4.

Page 176, Line 8


ਦੋਹਰਾ
Dohraa||
DOHRA

Page 176, Line 9


ਪ੍ਰਮੁਦ ਕਰਨ ਸਭ ਭੈ ਹਰਨ ਨਾਮ ਚੰਡਕਾ ਜਾਸ
Pramud karan sabh bhai haran naam Chan?akaa jaas||
She shoes name is Chandika, delights and removes fear of all.

Page 176, Line 10


ਰਚੋ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਤੁਅ ਕਰੋ ਸਬੁੱਧਿ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ
Racho charitra bachitra tua karo sabuddh(i) prakaas||5||
Illumine me with good intellect, so that I may compose Thy wonderful deeds.5.

Page 176, Line 11


ਪੁਨਹਾ
Punhaa||
PUNHA

Page 176, Line 12


ਆਇਸ ਅਬ ਜੋ ਹੋਇ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਤਉ ਮੈ ਰਚੌ
aais ab jo hoe granth tau mai rachau||
If I am permitted now, I shall compose my Granth (book).

Page 176, Line 13


ਰਤਨ ਪ੍ਰਮੁਦ ਕਰ ਬਚਨ ਚੀਨ ਤਾ ਮੈ ਗਚੌ
Ratan pramud kar bachan choon taa mai gachau||
I shall find and set the delight-giving gem-like words.

Page 176, Line 14

ਭਾਖਾ ਸੁਭ ਸਭ ਕਰਹੋਂ ਧਰਿਹੋਂ ਕ੍ਰਿੱਤ ਮੈ
Bhaakhaa subh sabh kar-hon dharihon kritt mai||
In this composition, I shall use the beautiful language;

Page 177, Line 1


ਅਦਭੁਤ ਕਥਾ ਅਪਾਰ ਸਮਝ ਕਰਿ ਚਿੱਤ ਮੈ
Abhut kathaa apaar samajh kar(i) chitt mai||6||
And whatever I have thought in my mind, I shall narrate that wonderful story.6.

Page 177, Line 2

All this comes at start of Chandi Charitar yet does not comes in Markandaya Purana. It tells that God only is reality behind the demigoddess of outcastes.

Then see the verse 25 further down.


ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਨ ਕੇ ਨਮਿਤ ਕਾਲ ਜਨਮੁ ਇਹ ਲੀਨ
Dait sanghaaran ke namit kaal janam(u) eh leen||
It seemed that Death itself had taken the birth to destroy the demons.

Page 182, Line 5


ਸਿੰਘ ਚੰਡ ਬਾਹਨ ਭਇਓ ਸਤ੍ਰਨ ਕਉ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੀਨ ੨੫
Singh Chan? baahan bhaio satran kau dukh(u) doon||25||
The lion, who causes great suffering to the enemies, became the vehicle of the goddess Chandi.25.

Page 182, Line 6
(Here Kal or God did have a life of demigoddess could be understood)

Then we see Chaubees Avtar
 
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

ਚੌਪਈ
Chaupaee||
CHAUPAI
Line 3


ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਕਾਲ ਸਭ ਜਗ ਕੋ ਤਾਤਾ
Pratham kaal sabh jag ko taataa||
First of all the Lord as KAL is the primal ****her of the whole universe;
Line 4


ਤਾਤੇ ਭਥੋ ਤੇਜ ਬਿਖਯਾਤਾ
Taate bhayo tej bikhyaataa||
And from him emanated the Powerful Lustre;
Line 5


ਸੋਈ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਹਾਈ
SoiBhavaaninaam(u) kahaaee||
The same Lord was considered as Bhavani,
Line 6


ਜਿਨ ਸਿਗਰੀ ਯਹ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ੨੯
Jin sigariyah sristtee upaaee||29||
Who created the whole world.29.
Line 7
(So glorious manifestation of God is demigoddess ie manifestation in the form of creation)

ਬਿਸ਼ਨਪਦ
Bishanpad||
VISHNUPADA

Page 1289, Line 3


ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
RaamkaliTvaprasaadh||
RAMKALI BY THY GRACE

Page 1289, Line 4


ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਜਬੈ ਬਡਾਈ ਰੀਝੇ ਦੇਵ ਦਿਆਲ ਤਿਹ ਊਪਰ ਪੂਰਣ ਪੁਰਖ ਸਦਾਈ
Eh bidh(i) keenijabai ba?aaee|| Reejhe dev diaal tih oopar pooran purakh sadaaee||
When He was eulogized in this way, then the perfect Purusha, the Lord was pleased with the king Parasnath;

Page 1289, Line 5


ਆਪਨਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਦੇਵ ਦਰਸ਼ਨਿ ਭਯੋ ਸਿੰਘ ਕਰੀ ਅਸਵਾਰੀ ਲੀਨੇ ਛੱਤ੍ਰ ਲੰਕਰਾ ਕੂਦਤ ਨਾਚਣ ਗਣ ਦੈਤਾਰੀ ੧੨੮੬
aapan(i) mile dev darshan(i) bhayo singh kariasvaaree|| Leene chhattra lankaraa koodat naachan gan daitaaree||12||86||
In order to bestow His sight to him, He mounted on a lion; He had a canopy over His head and the ganas, demons etc. began to dance in front of Him.12.86.

Page 1289, Line 6
(Parasnath Avtar)

He sing praises to goddess so Akal takes form of goddess to see him.

Comrade does an astonishing act here where he terms name as Kal for demigoddess. Do we have any reference to so called Hindu texts where this name is referred to goddess ?

Anyway in Vachitar Natak and Chartiropakhayn 266 and 405 Mahakal and Kal are used for a single entity. Then this means both are same yet in next point comrades tries to tell that Kal and Kalika are husband and wife. Is that not self contradictory. Term Kal signifies an attribute of Akal, whose manifestation in form of glory or light is Bhavani.


ਚੌਪਈ
Chaupaee||
CHAUPAI
Line 1


ਅੰਤ ਕਰਤ ਸਭ ਜਗ ਕੋ ਕਾਲਾ
Ant karat sabh jag ko kaalaa||
At time Thou destroyest the universe;
Line 2


ਨਾਮੁ ਕਾਲ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਗ ਡਾਲਾ
Naam(u) kaal taa te jag ?aalaa||
Therefore the world hath named you KAL (the Destroyer Lord);
Line 3


ਸਮੈ ਸੰਤ ਪਰ ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਈ
Samai sant par hot sahaaee||
Thou hast been helping all the saints;
Line 4


ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸੰਖਯਾ ਸੰਤ ਸੁਨਾਈ
Taa te sankhyaa sant sunaaee||9||
Therefore the saints have reckoned Thy incarnations.9.
Line 5
(Chaubees Avtar)

Comrade trapped himself in his lie.

Let us go for point 3. As per him term Aradhi is feminine gender so in Mahakal Kalka Aradhi we could not behold as Mahakal and Kalka as both being for God.

ਤਹ ਹਮ ਅਧਿਕ ਤਪੱਸਿਆ ਸਾਧੀ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਅਰਾਧੀ
Tah ham adhik tapassiaa saadhoo|| Mahaakaal Kaalikaa araadhoo||2||
There I was absorbed in deep meditation on the Primal Power, the Supreme KAL.2.
Line 5


Further he talks of form of worshipped by another verse


ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਹੈ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਪਾਰਾ ਦੇਬਿ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਮਾਤ ਹਮਾਰਾ
Sarab kaal hai pitaa apaaraa|| Deb(i) Kaalikaa maat hamaaraa||
He, my Lord is Father and Destroyer of all, the goddess Kalika is my mother.
Line 3
And as per this two are husband and wife so could not be one. While in last point das did explained that this very same comrade is giving name Kal to demigoddess, while from some ext mentioned there kal and Mahakal are same. That makes by logic of Comrade only here one entity is mother and father as per logic of Ang 103 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Then comrade also does another self contradictory thing. If Kaalka Aradhi is Feminine gender then Maat Hamaara is masculine gender. So as per this thing endless Apara father is itself form of Demigoddess as mother. So both are the same.

Then let us see Aradhi, we know as per Nabha Sahib from two to one and not from three to one, which comrade ignores




ਤਹ ਹਮ ਅਧਿਕ ਤਪੱਸਿਆ ਸਾਧੀ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਅਰਾਧੀ
Tah ham adhik tapassiaa saadhoo|| Mahaakaal Kaalikaa araadhoo||2||
There I was absorbed in deep meditation on the Primal Power, the Supreme KAL.2.
Line 5


ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਰਤ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਭਯੋ ਦ੍ਵੈ ਤੇ ਏਕ ਰੂਪ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਯੋ
Ih bidh(i) karat tapasiaa bhayo|| Dvai te ek roop hvai gayo||
In this way, my meditation reached its zenith and I became One with the Omnipotent Lord.
Line 6


But things do not ends here. Here it is proved that God was used in feminine gender. As per Pt. Tara Singh Narotam perhaps. Like we have term Papi from pap so Aradhi means worshipper.

Then in Shri Guru Granth Sahib term is used for masculine gender only.



(੧੩੩੮-੧੮, ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ, )
ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਅਰਾਧੀ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਈ
saas saas paarabreham araadhhee apunae sathigur kai bal jaaee ||2||
With each and very breath, I worship and adore the Supreme Lord God; I am a sacrifice to the True Guru. ||2||
18 Parbhaatee Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 1338)

But then for worshipped one Aradhiya we could have Tatbhav(slang) as Aradhi.

While dealing with a fake person claiming to be bhag s Ambala, das has clarified this and will bring good lot of work over it again. It has been proven that no drugs are related to Mahakal. Then comrades talks of a hermit millions years before. Then das challenges him to bring out name Dusht Daman or any proof of millions year before or Satiyuga mentioned in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib’s Vachitar Natak. Story is of Guru and instance of worship of Mahakal ,who is Kalka’s worship was within this life of him. Then he again tries to prove that there is some poet syam, which has been rfuted by das already.

Point 4. Shiva and Jagmai could not be Akal and Bhai Randheer Singh Ji are false.

Let us take Shiva first.

From the chapter 7 of Chandi Charitar of Vachitar Natak stat of Devi Ju(repected devine) or chapter 7 of Chandi Chairtar 2nd.

We have term Brahm Kavach at start which means amour of Brham (or God’s manifestation as matter).

Where God is given name


ਨਮੋ ਕਾਰਤਿਕਯਾਨੀ ਸਿਵਾ ਸੀਤਲਾਯੰ ੧੦੨੨੯
Namo kaartikyaanoo sivaa sootalaayang||10||229||
Thou art the power of Kartikeya and Shiva etc.! I salute thee.10.229.
Line 10
But this Shiva is given these attributes also.


Page 293, Line 10


ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਨੀਤਾ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਪਰੇਯੰ
Pavitroo punootaa puraanoo preyang||
Thou art pure, holy, ancient, great;

Page 293, Line 11


ਪ੍ਰਭੀ ਪੂਰਣੀ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੀ ਅਜੇਯੰ
Parabhoo pooranoo paarbrahmoo ajeyang||
Perfect, maya and unconquerable.

Page 293, Line 12


ਅਰੂਪੰ ਅਨੂਪੰ ਅਨਾਮੰ ਅਠਾਮੰ
Aroopang anoopang annmang athaamang||
Thou art formless, unique, nameless and abodeless.

Page 293, Line 13


ਅਭੀਤੰ ਅਜੀਤੰ ਮਹਾਂ ਧਰਮ ਧਾਮੰ ੩੨੨੫੧
Abhootang ajootang mahaan dharam dhaamang||32||251||
Thou art fearless, unconquerable and treasure of the great Dharma.32.251.

Page 293, Line 14

ਅਛੇਦੰ ਅਭੇਦੰ ਅਕਰਮੰ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੰ
Achhedang abhedang akaramang su dharramang||
Thou art indestructible, indistinguishable, deedless and Dhrma-incarnate.

Page 294, Line 1


ਨਮੋ ਬਾਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਧਰੇ ਚਰਮ ਬਰਮੰ
Namo baan paanoo dhare charam baramang||
O the holder of the arrow in Thy hand and wearer of the armour, I salute Thee.

Page 294, Line 2


ਅਜੇਯੰ ਅਭੇਯੰ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਨਿਤਯੰ
Ajeyang abheyang nirankaar nityang||
Thou art unconquerable, indistinguishable, formless, eternal;

Page 294, Line 3


ਨਿਰੂਪੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਬਾਣੰ ਨਿਮਿਤਯੰ ਅਕਿਤਯੰ ੩੩੨੫੨
Niroopang nripaanang nimityang akityang||33||252||
Shapeless and the cause of nirvana (salvation) and all the works.33.252.


So this Shiva is formless. If comrade says that demigoddess is told formless then we can say that Vaishanvaites also call Vihsnu etc. also as formless and such logic will give disastrous results in understanding Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

So then comrade gives
This

ਅਥ ਦੇਵੀ ਜੂ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤ ਕਥਨੰ
Ath devijoo kiustat kathanang||
Now beginsa the description of the praise of the goddess:

Page 731, Line 2

From Krishna Avtar where we are told that God only is demigoddess and incarnations of Ram etc. No where in Hindu great iron or Mahaloh term is used for their Shakta demigod nor demigoddess is termed as weapon as in this. Lastly term is used


ਤੁਮ ਹੋ ਸਭ ਰਾਜਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਜਾ ਆਪੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਰੀਬ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਦਾਸ ਜਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਮੁਹਿ ਹਾਰ ਪਰਾ ਮੈ ਆਨ ਦ੍ਵਾਰ ਤੁਹਿ ੪੩੮
Tum ho sabh raajan ke raajaa|| oope aap(u) gareeb nivaajaa|| Daas jaan kar(i) kripaa karodh muh(i)|| Haar paraa mai aan dvaar tuh(i)||438||
O Lord! Thou art eh king of all kings and Gracious towards the poor; be Benevolent towards me, considering me as Thy own, because, I have surrendered and fallen at Thy Gate.438.

Page 732, Line 9

Here could demigoddess be called as King of King only God could be called.

Then comrade does another wage attempt. From no where without any proof he says that this is form of half Parwati and half Shanker or Ardh Narishwara. It appears that he is obsessed with this form. It is nowhere written any where, yet how could this half Shiva orders Vishnu to take Rudra Avtar who in turn is again Shiva(see Rudra Avtar in chaubees Avtar). Likewise where we have Avtars taken by Rudra/shiv(Datt and Parasnath) we are told that after Shiv Ji’s getting pride Kal becomes unhappy with shiv.

Fact is comrade thinks that Vamarg Shakta has something to do with left side of goddess. While fact is Vammarga means zigzag way which is contrary to Dakshin or straight way. Name for demigoddess in Vamamarg is Dakhshinadevi while Shiv is called Vamdev.

There are terms which are in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib which no Vamargi Shakt will use but only Dakshin Margi shakt will use. By the way there have been Vam Marg in Shavite(Kapalik) and Budhists(Vajrayan refered to 84 Sidhs in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji), they are termed as Yogis who follow Vam Marg in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

(੪੭੬-੧੨, ਆਸਾ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਆਸਾ
aasaa ||
Aasaa:
12 null null


(੪੭੬-੧੨, ਆਸਾ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਇਕਤੁ ਪਤਰਿ ਭਰਿ ਉਰਕਟ ਕੁਰਕਟ ਇਕਤੁ ਪਤਰਿ ਭਰਿ ਪਾਨੀ
eikath pathar bhar ourakatt kurakatt eikath pathar bhar paanee ||
In one pot, they put a boiled chicken, and in the other pot, they put wine.
12 Aasaa Saint Kabir


(੪੭੬-੧੩, ਆਸਾ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਆਸਿ ਪਾਸਿ ਪੰਚ ਜੋਗੀਆ ਬੈਠੇ ਬੀਚਿ ਨਕਟ ਦੇ ਰਾਨੀ
aas paas panch jogeeaa baithae beech nakatt dhae raanee ||1||
The five Yogis of the Tantric ritual sit there, and in their midst sits the noseless one, the shameless queen. ||1||
13 Aasaa Saint Kabir
(Ang 476)

By the way let us give reference to Dakshin Margi Shakta terminology.



ਨਮੋ ਲੰਕੁੜੇਸੀ ਨਮੋ ਸਕਤਿ ਪਾਣੀ
Namo lanku?esoo namo sakat(i) paanoo||
Thou art the power of Hanuman;
Line 9
(Brahm Kavach 24..243)


ਉਛਲੈ ਲੰਕੜੀਆ ਛਤ੍ਰਾਲਾ ਭਿੰਭਰੀਆ ਭੈਰੋ ਭਉਹਾਲਾ ਜੈ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਜੈ ਦਾਣੀ ਲੋਕੇਸੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਭਾਵਾਣੀ ੬੦
Uchhlai lanka?eeaa chhatraalaa|| Bhinbhareeaa bhairo bhauhaalaa|| Jai daataa maataa jai daanee|| LokesiDurgaa bhaavaanee||60||
“Hanuman and Bairava jump and wander with your strength; O mother ! you are the Donor of Victory; You are the mistress of al the worlds and You are Durga, who ferries across the cycle of existence.60.
Line 9
(Paras Nath Rudra Avtar)

Fact is that comrade who has been proven to have not correct in concept of Sikhism hardly knows Vammarg or Shakta faith at all. As he thought that no one is going to verify his lies so he wrote all such things.

Only in Sikism where we say Allah Ram ke Pind Paran,
(੧੧੩੬-੧੨, ਭੈਰਉ, )
ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ
aleh raam kae pindd paraan ||4||
My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||
12 Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev

(Ang 1136)
where both opposing things(Hindu Muslim) are united so are in unprecedented way opposite side so Shaktas terms from opposite sides are used to show unity of God. Worshipped God is time and again told as one like in Chaupayee Sahib,Adi Ant Eko Avtara.. but comrade tries to say that Mahakal and Kalika as per Sikhism are not one.



(੧੦੨੦-੧੪, ਮਾਰੂ, )
ਆਪੇ ਸਸਿ ਸੂਰਾ ਪੂਰੋ ਪੂਰਾ
aapae sas sooraa pooro pooraa ||
You Yourself are the moon, the sun, the most perfect of the perfect.
14 Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 1020)

And Avtars of Sun and Moon as per Shri Dasham Granth Sahib do tell Akal is same as them. Or Akal manifest self in them.

So next telling them that Sun and moon are mother of universe only means that Jagmai is Akal.
(੨੩੪-, ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ, )
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਕਰਹਲੇ
raag gourree poorabee mehalaa 4 karehalae
Raag Gauree Poorbee, Fourth Mehl, Karhalay:
3 null null


(੨੩੪-, ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ, )
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
3 null null


(੨੩੪-, ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ, )
ਕਰਹਲੇ ਮਨ ਪਰਦੇਸੀਆ ਕਿਉ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਇ
karehalae man paradhaeseeaa kio mileeai har maae ||
O my wandering mind, you are like a camel - how will you meet the Lord, your Mother?
4 Gaurhee Poorbee Guru Ram Das
(Ang 234)

God is told to be as mother.




Further Jagmai and Shiva are told to be one.

Then comrade claims that the name Kaal is used for demigoddess in Markandaye Puran, which is a blatant lie.
 
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Article 5 “Mahakal Kalika Aradhi” by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha Ji

Comrade says that he has talked about it in 4th article. Which das has refuted. Comrade says that in 33 years Tenth Master never went to Hemkunt Parbat. What is so fuss about it. He also never visited Harmandir Sahib, Amritsar. Anyway Hemkunt Parbat instance talk of high spiritual state of mind and Guru only worshiped invisible who is his mother and father(Bachitar Natak 6.3)

Article 6. Bhagouti Ki Var by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha.

Not only Nabha Ji but also as per “Devi Pujan Partal” Bhai Veer Singh had a logic.

Das will explain this logic and will not give his views. His own views will be given if das gets a chance to write the answer of same comrade who wrote a letter to Akal Takhat Sahib last summer of about 30 pages against Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.

Das was given some service by Akal, so could not find the time to answer, answers which das has in his mind but could not write. Dr Anokh Singh Ji told das to not to bother much of comrades as they are time wasters. So comrade’s accusation to Shahbaz Khalsa regarding “Jaffernammah” will removed when das deals comrades understanding of Jaffernammah.

While in points 1 to 3 in the article comrades misquotes Nabha Ji. Nabha Ji said that some verses are not the original contribution of Tenth Master but word to word translation from original text. So as per him Translator is Tenth Master. To diffenrtiate translation and original work is that former will have Patshahi 10 only while later will have Shri Mukhvak Patshahi 10.

So Nabha Sahib are saying not the original work of Tenth Master but translation but either due to lack of intellect or mischievous design comrade reads it as work not at all done by Tenth Master or related to him. Disgraceful on such so called scholars.

Seventh Article:- “Pritham Bhgouti Simar Kai” by Dr. Jaswant Singh Neki.

Here comrade talks about various definition of Bhagouti as per Kahan Singh Nabha’s Mahan Kosh. And repeat the lies he said in Seventh Article.

He talks of Seventh definition Bhagouti as Mahakal.

As per him and not from Nabha Sahib, we are told that to be disciple of Mahakal one needs to take drugs. Which das has proved wrong in previous text.

He has done the same cheap trick which Ambala did to define saber emblem or flag of Sikhs with sword as Mahakal of Shaktas based upon Mahan Kosh of Nabha Sahib. But how did Nabha Sahib defined Mahakal in Mahan Kosh ?

So first definition of Mahakal is as per Nabha Sahib.

The death of the death, in whom Shiv and Yama etc. also get merged(and finished), Wahiguru, Prabrahm. “Mahakal Rakhwar Hamaro”(Krishna Avtar)2. That long time whose end is not there.3. as per people beholding time as creator it is endless form of time.4.As per Kalika Puran a son of god Shiv,once Shiv Ji offered his semen in fire of alter. Two drops went on ground. One was Shringi, while another was Mahakal. “Gan Hu Ke Gata, Maha Budhita Ke Data Dev, Kal Hu Ke Kal Mahakal Hu Ke Kal Hai”(Akal Ustat)5. A Shiv ling called Mahakal in Ujjain.

So as per Nabha Sahib himself Mahakal is Wahiguru and so Bhagouti is also Wahiguru or God of Sikhs. The son of Shiva as per Nabha Sahib is written to be having death as Akal Purakh(so there is son of Shiva called Mahakal). While when we see shiv Puran Ujjain Mahakal is not the Shiva but lingam only and as per Charitropakhyan 266 worship of Lingam is false( There are many more examples in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib where worship of Lingam is opposed)

So very cleverly comrade tired to cheat the Sikhs and he is exposed here and now.Das is happy to inform that Mahakal….. of Shakta is also mentioned in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib.Das has used ….. just to leave the full name of that demigod of Shaktas.

In fact in later part of the article as per Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji we are told that Bhagouti is a spritualy good person. OK. That person is Jivat Mukt or salvaged while being alive but comrade wrongly says that Bhagouti does something or get some thing be self deeds, as in Gurmat all action are done by God only.(Hukmail Ander Sabh Ko..Japu Ji Sahib,Ang 1)

So Jivat Mukt is true and company of the same is Sat Sangat. Or it may mean company of Truth or Sat Sangat Which is used in feminine gender in Gurbani.


(੨੯-੧੪, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, )
ਵਡੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਸਹਜਿ ਅਨੰਦੁ
vaddai bhaag sathasangath paaee har paaeiaa sehaj anandh ||2||
By great good fortune, I found the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation; I have found the Lord, with intuitive ease and ecstasy. ||2||
14 Sriraag Guru Amar Das
(Ang 29)

So if Bhagouti is behold as company of true Gurmukhs, then why not the answer be as per Gurmat.

Then comrade talks another logic which proves his bankruptcy in understanding Gurmat. As per Ang 291, comrade says it is not possible to say that Oh! Nanak by this was God get God. As per comrade Bhagouti and Bhagwant are to things.

This is called Duja Bhav in Gurmat. Ie beholding the existence of any thing else other than God.

(੯੨੨-, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, )
ਏਹੁ ਵਿਸੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ੁਮ ਦੇਖਦੇ ਏਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਇਆ
eaehu vis sansaar thum dhaekhadhae eaehu har kaa roop hai har roop nadharee aaeiaa ||
This whole world which you see is the image of the Lord; only the image of the Lord is seen.
6 Raamkalee Guru Amar Das
(Ang 922)

So there is no difference between creation and creator as per Gurmat. But a person without knowing this and claiming to be a Sikh could create a wrong interpretation as comrade has done.

Let us see the proof as per Gurbani.


(੧੪੨੮-, ਸਲੋਕ, )
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੀ ਮਾਨੁ ੨੯
har jan har anthar nehee naanak saachee maan ||29||
There is no difference between the Lord and the humble servant of the Lord; O Nanak, know this as true. ||29||
1 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur
(Ang 1428)

Then another verse.

(੪੪੧-, ਆਸਾ, )
ਮਨ ਤੂੰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ
man thoon joth saroop hai aapanaa mool pashhaan ||
O my mind, you are the embodiment of the Divine Light - recognize your own origin.
3 Aasaa Guru Amar Das
(Ang 441)

So two more verse which tells that God only gets one with God apparently when Salvation while being alive is obtained.


(੮੪੬-੧੭, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਸੂਰਜ ਿਰਣਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਜਲ ਕਾ ਜਲੁ ਹੂਆ ਰਾਮ
sooraj kiran milae jal kaa jal hooaa raam ||
The rays of light merge with the sun, and water merges with water.
17 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


(੮੪੬-੧੭, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲੀ ਸੰਪੂਰਨੁ ਥੀਆ ਰਾਮ
jothee joth ralee sanpooran thheeaa raam ||
One's light blends with the Light, and one becomes totally perfect.
17 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


(੮੪੬-੧੭, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਏਕੁ ਏਕੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ
breham dheesai breham suneeai eaek eaek vakhaaneeai ||
I see God, hear God, and speak of the One and only God.
17 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


(੮੪੬-੧੮, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਆਤਮ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕਰਣਹਾਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀਐ
aatham pasaaraa karanehaaraa prabh binaa nehee jaaneeai ||
The soul is the Creator of the expanse of creation. Without God, I know no other at all.
18 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


(੮੪੬-੧੮, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਆਪਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਭੁਗਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਕਾਰਣੁ ਕੀਆ
aap karathaa aap bhugathaa aap kaaran keeaa ||
He Himself is the Creator, and He Himself is the Enjoyer. He created the Creation.
18 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


(੮੪੬-੧੯, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੇਈ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਆ
binavanth naanak saeee jaanehi jinhee har ras peeaa ||4||2||
Prays Nanak, they alone know this, who drink in the subtle essence of the Lord. ||4||2||
19 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 846)

(੬੫੭-੧੫, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਕੀ
raag sorath baanee bhagath ravidhaas jee kee
Raag Sorat'h, The Word Of Devotee Ravi Daas Jee:
16 null null


(੬੫੭-੧੬, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
16 null null


(੬੫੭-੧੭, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਜਬ ਹਮ ਹੋਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੂ ਨਾਹੀ ਅਬ ਤੂਹੀ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ
jab ham hothae thab thoo naahee ab thoohee mai naahee ||
When I am in my ego, then You are not with me. Now that You are with me, there is no egotism within me.
17 Sorith Saint Ravidas


(੬੫੭-੧੭, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਅਨਲ ਅਗਮ ਜੈਸੇ ਲਹਰਿ ਮਇ ਓਦਧਿ ਜਲ ਕੇਵਲ ਜਲ ਮਾਂਹੀ
anal agam jaisae lehar mae oudhadhh jal kaeval jal maanhee ||1||
The wind may raise up huge waves in the vast ocean, but they are just water in water. ||1||
17 Sorith Saint Ravidas


(੬੫੭-੧੮, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਮਾਧਵੇ ਕਿਆ ਕਹੀਐ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਐਸਾ
maadhhavae kiaa keheeai bhram aisaa ||
O Lord, what can I say about such an illusion?
18 Sorith Saint Ravidas


(੬੫੭-੧੮, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਜੈਸਾ ਮਾਨੀਐ ਹੋਇ ਤੈਸਾ ਰਹਾਉ
jaisaa maaneeai hoe n thaisaa ||1|| rehaao ||
Things are not as they seem. ||1||Pause||
18 Sorith Saint Ravidas


(੬੫੭-੧੯, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਨਰਪਤਿ ਏਕੁ ਸਿੰਘਾਸਨਿ ਸੋਇਆ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਭਇਆ ਭਿਖਾਰੀ
narapath eaek singhaasan soeiaa supanae bhaeiaa bhikhaaree ||
It is like the king, who falls asleep upon his throne, and dreams that he is a beggar.
19 Sorith Saint Ravidas


(੬੫੭-੧੯, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਅਛਤ ਰਾਜ ਬਿਛੁਰਤ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੋ ਗਤਿ ਭਈ ਹਮਾਰੀ
ashhath raaj bishhurath dhukh paaeiaa so gath bhee hamaaree ||2||
His kingdom is intact, but separated from it, he suffers in sorrow. Such is my own condition. ||2||
19 Sorith Saint Ravidas
(Ang 657)

(੬੫੮-, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਰਾਜ ਭੁਇਅੰਗ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਗ ਜੈਸੇ ਹਹਿ ਅਬ ਕਛੁ ਮਰਮੁ ਜਨਾਇਆ
raaj bhueiang prasang jaisae hehi ab kashh maram janaaeiaa ||
Like the story of the rope mistaken for a snake, the mystery has now been explained to me.
1 Sorith Saint Ravidas


(੬੫੮-, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਅਨਿਕ ਕਟਕ ਜੈਸੇ ਭੂਲਿ ਪਰੇ ਅਬ ਕਹਤੇ ਕਹਨੁ ਆਇਆ
anik kattak jaisae bhool parae ab kehathae kehan n aaeiaa ||3||
Like the many bracelets, which I mistakenly thought were gold; now, I do not say what I said then. ||3||
1 Sorith Saint Ravidas


(੬੫੮-, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਸਰਬੇ ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕੈ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਭ ਘਟ +ਗਵੈ ਸੋਈ
sarabae eaek anaekai suaamee sabh ghatt bhuogavai soee ||
The One Lord is pervading the many forms; He enjoys Himself in all hearts.
2 Sorith Saint Ravidas


(੬੫੮-, ਸੋਰਠਿ, ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ)
ਕਹਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਹਾਥ ਪੈ ਨੇਰੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਹੋਈ
kehi ravidhaas haathh pai naerai sehajae hoe s hoee ||4||1||
Says Ravi Daas, the Lord is nearer than our own hands and feet. Whatever will be, will be. ||4||1||

(Ang 658)

Lastly logic and mental power fails the person to get God.


(-, ਜਪੁ, )
ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਇਕ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ
sehas siaanapaa lakh hohi th eik n chalai naal ||
Hundreds of thousands of clever tricks, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end.
6 Jap Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 1)


(੩੨੪-੧੩, ਗਉੜੀ, ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਰਹਾਉ
chathuraaee n chathurabhuj paaeeai || rehaao ||
Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ||Pause||
13 Gaurhee Saint Kabir
(Ang 324)
So comrade leave such things related to human mind(Follower of mind or intellect is Manmukh) and take refuge in lord for devotion.


(੧੪੨੭-੧੭, ਸਲੋਕ, )
ਜਉ ਸੁਖ ਕਉ ਚਾਹੈ ਸਦਾ ਸਰਨਿ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਲੇਹ
jo sukh ko chaahai sadhaa saran raam kee laeh ||
If you yearn for eternal peace, then seek the Sanctuary of the Lord.
17 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur
(Ang 1427)

Article 8. “Deh Shiva Bar Mohi Ehai “ By Bhai Amarjeet Singh Khosa. Comrade quotes 6 verses and tries to explain them.

He takes verse 3 and verse 4.

For verse 3

(੯੨੦-੧੨, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, )
ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ
siv sakath aap oupaae kai karathaa aapae hukam varathaaeae ||
He Himself created Shiva and Shakti, mind and matter; the Creator subjects them to His Command.
12 Raamkalee Guru Amar Das
(Ang 920)

Here comrade uses his brain. Which as we are aware could not comprehend the God.

As per one of the 6 Hindu Philosophies we find universe created by Shiva(mind) and Shakti(matter), while Gurmat sees God in both.


(੯੨੧-, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, )
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨਾ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਤਿਨੀ ਵਿਚੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਪਾਇਆ ੨੯
kehai naanak gur parasaadhee jinaa liv laagee thinee vichae maaeiaa paaeiaa ||29||
Says Nanak, by Guru's Grace, those who enshrine love for the Lord find Him, in the midst of Maya. ||29||
5 Raamkalee Guru Amar Das
(Ang 921)

As per comrade intellectual attribute of God could not be Shiva while matter attribute of God could not be Shakti.

As per Nabha Ji’s Mahan Kosh definition 3 of Shakti is Mammon or Maya and 5th is of nature. For Shiv Defination 10 talks of Akal or God for Shiv from the verse

(੨੧-, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, )
ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ
jeh dhaekhaa theh rav rehae siv sakathee kaa mael ||
Wherever I look, I see the Lord pervading there, in the union of Shiva and Shakti, of consciousness and matter.
4 Sriraag Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 21)

So logic of comrade does a wrong interpretation of this verse
(੯੨੦-੧੨, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, )
ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ
siv sakath aap oupaae kai karathaa aapae hukam varathaaeae ||
He Himself created Shiva and Shakti, mind and matter; the Creator subjects them to His Command.
12 Raamkalee Guru Amar Das
(Ang 920)

As it has been told before that nothing other than God exist we se need to interpret this verse as

By Manifesting/fertilizing self (as) intellect and matter creator by self let orders happens. So the attributes of intellect and matters of God are within the control of God. That is the meaning. While logic fails there for person without spirituality.



(੧੦੯੬-੧੦, ਮਾਰੂ ਵਾਰ-, )
ਸਿਵ ਅਗੈ ਸਕਤੀ ਹਾਰਿਆ ਏਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਈਆ
siv agai sakathee haariaa eaevai har bhaaeeaa ||
Matter loses out to spirit; this is pleasing to the Lord.
10 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 1096)

Comrade tries to prove that it based upon so called hindu legend where shiva was trempled upon by Kali. And as term Hariya is there and not Haree so it is masculine gender and not the feminine gender so Shiv is defeat over here.

Let us see.

What about these verses

(੩੩੯-੧੯, ਗਉੜੀ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਕਾਟਿ ਸਕਤਿ ਸਿਵ ਸਹਜੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸਿਓ ਏਕੈ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾਨਾ
kaatt sakath siv sehaj pragaasiou eaekai eaek samaanaanaa ||
I have broken the bonds of Maya; the intuitive peace and poise of Shiva has dawned within me, and I am merged in oneness with the One.
19 Gaurhee Saint Kabir
(Ang 339)

So here the clarification regarding the gender is done.


(੧੦੩-੧੨, ਮਾਝ, )
ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਾਤਾ
thoon maeraa pithaa thoonhai maeraa maathaa ||
You are my Father, and You are my Mother.
12 Maajh Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 103)


(੧੧੪੪-, ਭੈਰਉ, )
ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਤੂਹੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਾਤਾ
thoo maeraa pithaa thoohai maeraa maathaa ||
You are my Father, and You are my Mother.
9 Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 1144)

So in both God as a mother is beheld with masculine gender. So term Mera Mata is used. As the term Maat Hamara is used in Vachitar Natak of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji. So as Akal is both in Shiv and Shakti as proved above so masculine gender is used for Shakti only and comrade could not understand Gurmat.

Then comrade talks again that same thing may have two different meaning. So it appears that he agrees one meaning of Shiva for God, yet he stubonly says that Shiva is demigoddess. As per Gyani Harbans Singh,in his Dasham granth Darpan, we are told that as we address God beloved Pritam as Pritama so we address God as Shiva in Deh Shiva Bar..

But as it has been proven Shiva is nothing but Nirankar only so there is hardly any thing to think about demigoddess.


(੨੯੧-, ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ, )
ਜਬ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਹਜ ਸੁਭਾਇ
jab niragun prabh sehaj subhaae ||
When God was without attributes, in absolute poise,
3 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev


(੨੯੧-, ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ, )
ਤਬ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਿਤੁ ਠਾਇ
thab siv sakath kehahu kith thaae ||
then where was mind and where was matter - where was Shiva and Shakti?
3 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 291)

Here we talk of state of God where God does not manifest self in separate form of intellect and matter. That state could be realized by enlightened one, when they are one with God. When only God is seen.


(੧੧੪੭-, ਭੈਰਉ, )
ਦੀਨ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਤੇਰੀ ਟੇਕ
dheen dhuneeaa thaeree ttaek ||
In this world and the next, I have Your Support.
2 Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev


(੧੧੪੭-, ਭੈਰਉ, )
ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਵਿਆ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਏਕ ਰਹਾਉ
sabh mehi raviaa saahib eaek ||1|| rehaao ||
The One Lord, our Lord and Master, is all-pervading. ||1||Pause||
3 Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 1147)



(੮੭੩-੧੨, ਗੋਂਡ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਸਿਵਾ ਸਕਤਿ ਸੰਬਾਦੰ
sivaa sakath sanbaadhan ||
Expounding on Shiva and Shakti
12 Gond Saint Nam Dev


(੮੭੩-੧੨, ਗੋਂਡ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਮਨ ਛੋਡਿ ਛੋਡਿ ਸਗਲ ਭੇਦੰ
man shhodd shhodd sagal bhaedhan ||
O man, renounce and abandon all these things.
12 Gond Saint Nam Dev


(੮੭੩-੧੨, ਗੋਂਡ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੰ
simar simar gobindhan ||
Meditate, meditate in remembrance on the Lord of the Universe.
12 Gond Saint Nam Dev


(੮੭੩-੧੨, ਗੋਂਡ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਭਜੁ ਨਾਮਾ ਤਰਸਿ ਭਵ ਸਿੰਧੰ
bhaj naamaa tharas bhav sindhhan ||4||1||
Meditate, O Naam Dayv, and cross over the terrifying world-ocean. ||4||1||
12 Gond Saint Nam Dev
(Ang 873)

Over here we are told to stay away with direct dialogue of Mammon. Maya not being considered as manifestation of Akal in this case.

Then from Ang 874.

As Akal is Anadi or without any start yet Akal’s manifestation in form of Matter is start or is Adi. But when we are salvaged we do not see any matter’s existence as only God exists.

That is behind verse in Ang 874.


(੮੭੪-੧੫, ਗੋਂਡ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਤੂ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ
thoo keheeath hee aadh bhavaanee ||
You are called the Primal Goddess.
15 Gond Saint Nam Dev


(੮੭੪-੧੬, ਗੋਂਡ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ਕਹਾ ਛਪਾਨੀ
mukath kee bareeaa kehaa shhapaanee ||4||
At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? ||4||
16 Gond Saint Nam Dev
It should be understood that Adi Bhavani is hidden or gets off the sense when we are salvaged or are one with God.

Further comrade talks of not going after Vedas and Puranas from a Verse from Ang/part(use for “page”) of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1195.

But those are not the Sikh texts at all.

There are many things of Sikhs like 5ks, Surnames, laws ,Beholding Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru etc which are not contained in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Name of Tenth Guru is not in there.

Then comrade accuses without fact or proof, that a person who does not has faith in Guru Granth Sahib ji reads other text related to Tenth Master.

What a pity, a person himself without any basic knowledge of spirituality related to Gurmat or Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji makes such vague comments. Fact is that a person without the proper knowledge of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji makes such comments full of atheism as neither the Ten Gurus nor embodiment of them in the form Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells to worship them or to have faith in their existence. As per them faith has to be in Akal, the God of Sikhs. Text of Tenth Master makes us understand this aspect better while we read Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

He again accuses that there has been partner for Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in the form of Text of Tenth Master. Had he been at the time of Tenth master he could have opposed Guruship to Tenth Master calling him as partner to previous Gurus.

Then he talks of some one claiming that Tenth Master ever worship demigoddess. So there are same set of people who claim that as per Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we find worship of demigod Vishnu sitting on Garuda or lion man incarnation of that demigod. If comrade says this fact is false then facts made by comrades too are false.

Then he raises the false alarm related to the verse unto the Tenth Master and gives out of context quotations from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

At end das also gives some quotations


(-, ਜਪੁ, )
ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ
gur eesar gur gorakh baramaa gur paarabathee maaee ||
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.
9 Jap Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 2)

Then there is another name given to Maya or Shakti in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


(੧੩੧੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਕਾਨੜਾ, )
ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਸਭ ਰਸ ਭੋਗਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਕਵਲਾ ਕੰਤ
har aapae sabh ras bhogadhaa har aapae kavalaa kanth ||
The Lord Himself enjoys all pleasures; the Lord Himself is the Husband of Maya.
8 Kaanrhaa Guru Ram Das
(Ang 1315)

(੧੧੬੭-੧੭, ਭੈਰਉ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ)
ਬੀਬੀ ਕਉਲਾ ਸਉ ਕਾਇਨੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਆਕਾਰੈ
beebee koulaa so kaaein thaeraa nirankaar aakaarai ||3||
You are married to Maya, O Formless Lord, and so You have taken form. ||3||
17 Bhaira-o Saint Nam Dev
(Ang 1167)

(੨੩੦-, ਗਉੜੀ, )
ਸਾਇਰ ਕੀ ਪੁਤ੍ਰੀ ਬਿਦਾਰਿ ਗਵਾਈ
saaeir kee puthree bidhaar gavaaee ||
Maya, the daughter of the ocean, has been slain.
7 Gaurhee Guru Amar Das
(Ang 230)

(੪੩੭-੧੨, ਆਸਾ, )
ਸਾਇਰ ਕੀ ਪੁਤ੍ਰੀ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਤਿਆਗੀ ਚਰਣ ਤਲੈ ਵੀਚਾਰੇ
saaeir kee puthree parehar thiaagee charan thalai veechaarae ||
I have renounced Maya, the daughter of the ocean; reflecting upon reality, I have trampled it under my feet.
12 Aasaa Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 437)

As per legend Laxmi/Kavala is daughter of ocean.

But that is behold as one with Akal.


(੧੧੯੦-੧੦, ਬਸੰਤੁ, )
ਆਪੇ ਕਵਲਾ ਕੰਤੁ ਆਪਿ
aapae kavalaa kanth aap ||
He Himself is Lakshmi, and He Himself is her husband.
10 Basant Guru Nanak Dev
(Ang 1190)
 
Dec 1, 2006
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Mr. Vijaydeep Singh, show me where Bhagautee is used for God in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If Guru Nanak's 10 forms up to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Bhagats, Bhatts, Satta and Balwand didn't accept Bhagautee to mean God, how do Dasam Granth promoters know Bhagautee means God? Please show me quote from Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Bhagautee means God. If you cannot, then we know that if Bhagautee didn't mean God anywhere in 1430 pages of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it can't mean God. We must make Guru Granth Sahib Ji our base. Thanks. Don't bother trying to make links to explain Bhagautee to be God, give me one quote from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gurfateh

Brother,

Welcome and Due respect to you.

Well there is one question from the useless person like das. From 1430 Angs(srroy but das could not use term pages) give at least a single quote which say that Shri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji, Shri Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji, Shri Guru Harkishan Sahib Ji or Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji were Gurus of Sikh.

Or say Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Guruship to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

In case your self do not find them. Then you will have to agree that there are many things in Gurmat, which are not included in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, yet not contradictory to them.

In fact there is no bonding on Tenth Master either to not to remember the God with new names.

There is mythological serpent always singing new names to God.
Page 1309, Line 12
ਸਹਸ ਫਨੀ ਜਪਿਓ ਸੇਖਨਾਗੈ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਤਿਆ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
सहस फनी जपिओ सेखनागै हरि जपतिआ अंतु न पावैगो ॥
Sahas fanī japi▫o sekẖnāgai har japṯi▫ā anṯ na pāvaigo.
The serpent king chants and meditates on the Lord with his thousands of heads, but even by these chants, he cannot find the Lord's limits.
Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
[/SIZE]Page 1390, Line 2
ਗਾਵੈ ਗੁਣ ਸੇਸੁ ਸਹਸ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਰਸ ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗਿ ਧੁਨਾ ॥
गावै गुण सेसु सहस जिहबा रस आदि अंति लिव लागि धुना ॥
Gāvai guṇ ses sahas jihbā ras āḏ anṯ liv lāg ḏẖunā.
The thousand-tongued serpent king sings His Praises with delight, remaining lovingly attached to Him.
Bard Kal-sahar - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 1390, Line 13
ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਪਾਯਾਲਿ ਭਗਤ ਨਾਗਾਦਿ ਭੁਯੰਗਮ ॥
गुण गावहि पायालि भगत नागादि भुयंगम ॥
Guṇ gāvahi pā▫yāl bẖagaṯ nāgāḏ bẖuyangam.
In the nether worlds, His Praises are sung by the devotees like Shaysh-naag in serpent form.
Bard Kal-sahar - [SIZE=-1]view Shab
[/SIZE]ਏਕ ਜੀਹ ਗੁਣ ਕਵਨ ਬਖਾਨੈ
एक जीह गुण कवन बखानै ॥
Ėk jīh guṇ kavan bakẖānai.
Which of Your Glorious Virtues can I chant with my one tongue?

ਸਹਸ ਫਨੀ ਸੇਖ ਅੰਤੁ ਜਾਨੈ
सहस फनी सेख अंतु न जानै ॥
Sahas fanī sekẖ anṯ na jānai.
Even the thousand-headed serpent does not know Your limit.

ਨਵਤਨ ਨਾਮ ਜਪੈ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਇਕੁ ਗੁਣੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਹਿ ਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੬॥
नवतन नाम जपै दिनु राती इकु गुणु नाही प्रभ कहि संगा ॥१६॥
Navṯan nām japai ḏin rāṯī ik guṇ nāhī parabẖ kahi sangā. ||16||
One may chant new names for You day and night, but even so, O God, no one can describe even one of Your Glorious Virtues. ||16||
(Ang 1083)

Brother with folded hands das prays to you that only motive for giving reference from above is to tell that as God is limitless so are the name of That God.That is of course God of Sikhs.

ਪੰਨਾ 1183, ਸਤਰ 11
ਸਚੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਨਿਤ ਨਵਾ ॥
सचु परमेसरु नित नवा ॥
Sacẖ parmesar niṯ navā.
The True Transcendent Lord is always new, forever fresh.
ਮਃ 5

There are a few verses which are there in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but we follow something contradictory to it in Sikhism. Das is sure that brilliant and motivated Sikh will follow the lines from Shri Dasham Granth Sahib ,then one told in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, when he is faced by an offense by anti Panthic forces.

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜੋ ਤੈ ਮਾਰਨਿ ਮੁਕੀਆਂ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਾਰੇ ਘੁੰਮਿ
फरीदा जो तै मारनि मुकीआं तिन्हा न मारे घुमि ॥
Farīḏā jo ṯai māran mukī▫āʼn ṯinĥā na māre gẖumm.
Fareed, do not turn around and strike those who strike you with their fists.

ਆਪਨੜੈ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਪੈਰ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਦੇ ਚੁੰਮਿ ॥੭॥
आपनड़ै घरि जाईऐ पैर तिन्हा दे चुमि ॥७॥
Āpnaṛai gẖar jā▫ī▫ai pair ṯinĥā ḏe cẖumm. ||7||
Kiss their feet, and return to your own home. ||7|| (Ang 1378)

While What Tenth Master said.
ਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਅਜ਼ ਹਮਹ ਹੀਲਤੇ ਦਰ ਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ ॥ ਹਲਾਲ ਅਸਤ ਬੁਰਦਨ ਬ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਦਸਤ ॥੨੨॥
चु कार अज़ हमह हीलते दर गुज़शत ॥ हलाल असत बुरदन ब शमशीर दसत ॥२२॥
When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand.22.

(Jaffernammah Sahib)
God is remembered as weapons in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also.

ਪੰਨਾ 1021, ਸਤਰ 1
ਆਪੇ ਧਨਖੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਰਬਾਣਾ ॥
आपे धनखु आपे सरबाणा ॥
Āpe ḏẖanakẖ āpe sarbāṇā.
He Himself is the bow, and He Himself is the archer.
ਮਃ 1 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Then regarding Sarbanha, Sar Banha both means to arrow also as given by Mahankosh for first meaning.
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਦੇਖੋ, ਸਰ ੪। (2) ਸੰ. ਸ਼ਰਵਾਣਿ. ਤੀਰ ਚਲਾਕੇ ਨਿਰਬਾਹ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ. ਕਮਾਣ ਰੱਖਣ ਵ[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਸੰ. सरस {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਤਾਲ. "ਸਰ ਭਰਿ ਥਲ ਹਰੀਆਵਲੇ". (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੧) "ਨਉ ਸਰ ਸੁਭਰ ਦਸਵੈਂ ਪੂਰੇ". (ਸਿਧਗੋਸਟਿ) ਇਸ ਥਾਂ ਸਰ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਹਨ। (2) ਜਲ. "ਭਾਣੈ ਥਲ ਸਿਰਿ ਸਰ ਵਹੈ". (ਸੂਹੀ ਮਃ ੧. ਸੁਚਜੀ) ਟਿੱਬੇ ਉੱਪਰ ਪਾਨੀ ਵਹੈ। (3) शर. ਸ਼ਰ. ਤੀਰ. ਬਾਣ. "ਸਰ ਸੰਧੈ ਆਗਾਸ ਕਉ". (ਵਾਰ ਮਾਝ ਮਃ ੨)। (4) ਕਾਨਾ. ਸਰਕੁੜੇ ਦਾ ਕਾਨਾ. "ਆਪੇ ਧਨੁਖ ਆਪੇ ਸਰ ਬਾਣਾ". (ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ ਮਃ ੧) ਆਪੇ ਕਾਨਾ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਲੋਹੇ ਦੀ ਮੁਖੀ। (5) ਪੰਜ ਸੰਖ੍ਯਾ ਬੋਧਕ ਸ਼ਬਦ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਕਾਮ ਦੇ ਪੰਜ ਬਾਣ ਮੰਨੇ ਹਨ। (6) ਦੁੱਧ ਦੀ ਮਲਾਈ। (7) ਖਸ. ਉਸ਼ੀਰ। (8) ਪ੍ਰਾ. ਯੋਗ੍ਯ ਸਮਾ. ਮੁਨਾਸਿਬ ਵੇਲਾ. "ਸਰ ਅਪਸਰ ਕੀ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਹਿ". (ਸੋਰ ਮਃ ੧)। (9) ਤੁੱਲ. ਬਰਾਬਰ. "ਨਾਮੇ ਸਰ ਭਰਿ ਸੋਨਾ ਲੇਹੁ". (ਭੈਰ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ)। (10) ਸਮੁੰਦਰ. ਸਾਗਰ। (11) ਸ੍ਵਾਸ. ਸੁਰ. ਦਮ. "ਆਵਤ ਜਾਤ ਨਾਕ ਸਰ ਹੋਈ". (ਗੌਂਡ ਕਬੀਰ) ਨਾਕਦਮ ਹੋਈ। (12) ਫ਼ਾ. __ ਸਿਰ. ਸੀਸ. "ਮਮ ਸਰ ਮੂਇ ਅਜਰਾਈਲ ਗਰਿਫਤਹ". (ਤਿਲੰ ਮਃ ੧) "ਨ ਅਕਲ ਸਰ". (ਵਾਰ ਸਾਰ ਮਃ ੧)। (13) ਫਤੇ. ਜਿੱਤ. "ਦੇਸ ਸਰਬ ਸਰ ਕੀਨੋ". (ਗੁਪ੍ਰਸੂ)। (14) ਸਰਦਾਰ। (15) ਅ਼. __ ਸ਼ੱਰ. ਬਦੀ. ਬੁਰਾਈ। (16) ਡਿੰਗ. ਸਰ. ਦੁੱਧ[/SIZE][SIZE=-0]ਾਲਾ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]Lastly kindly provide a referance from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which tells that Sikh Gurus are not to use any other name of God outside Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

(off the topic, Well one email was sent to you few minutes before das got your link for this reply. This means that there is some telepathic contact between yourself and das, kindly see you in box, same email will be made public soon for the interest of Panth,That is about working for Sikhism and not for our idealogical differences)
 
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Dec 1, 2006
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Vijaydeep, I see that you posted some lines even thought I told you only to bring quotes showing Bhagauteee is God. You once again have mastered your skill to divert the topic to something else by posting quotes not related to the thread. There are no contradictions in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it is just your misunderstanding. You won't either because no one understand Gurmat by searching for a word and then copy pasting quotes related to those words. I will not reply to quotes regarding ses naag or seprant or shooting arrrows. You sure are shooting arrows though. I will also not post replies to shabads starting with the word aapay because you are not understanding the whole shabad. These shabads are usually long so they are hard to translate and explain online.

You asked me to show you names of Guru Hargobind Ji, Guru Har Rai Ji, Guru Har Krishan Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is a really useless argument because Guru Granth Sahib Ji isn't a history book, Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Guru of Sikhs and mission of Guru is to enlighten Sikh to live in rehat and stay away from kurehits. Also, name of Nanak is parvaan in Guru Nanak's house. That is why all Bani of Guru Nanak's joats is written under Nanak because it was Nanak from Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh Ji. We can discuss these things during live talk.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Gurfateh

Well brother why are you not liking the usage of this forum ? why are so much after live talk ? Akal only knows.

Das never said about contradiction in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at all. Das just wanted to remove the wrong notions that Verses onto Tenth Master are in contradiction. So forgive me they were more like putting words into the mouth of das.

Argument das gave was that what is validity of the question to ask for name of God not in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, will not be used by Gurus at all?

Coming to name did not Bhatt Swayye Have name of Gurus ?

Asking about Histroy
ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ
बिलावलु महला ५ ॥
Bilāval mėhlā 5.
Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:

ਸੁਲਹੀ ਤੇ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਰਾਖੁ
सुलही ते नाराइण राखु ॥
Sulhī ṯe nārā▫iṇ rākẖ.
The Lord saved me from Sulhi Khan.

ਸੁਲਹੀ ਕਾ ਹਾਥੁ ਕਹੀ ਪਹੁਚੈ ਸੁਲਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਮੂਆ ਨਾਪਾਕੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
सुलही का हाथु कही न पहुचै सुलही होइ मूआ नापाकु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Sulhī kā hāth kahī na pahucẖai sulhī ho▫e mū▫ā nāpāk. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The emperor did not succeed in his plot, and he died in disgrace. ||1||Pause||

ਕਾਢਿ ਕੁਠਾਰੁ ਖਸਮਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਾਟਿਆ ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਗਇਆ ਹੈ ਖਾਕੁ
काढि कुठारु खसमि सिरु काटिआ खिन महि होइ गइआ है खाकु ॥
Kādẖ kuṯẖār kẖasam sir kāti▫ā kẖin mėh ho▫e ga▫i▫ā hai kẖāk.
The Lord and Master raised His axe, and chopped off his head; in an instant, he was reduced to dust. ||1||

ਮੰਦਾ ਚਿਤਵਤ ਚਿਤਵਤ ਪਚਿਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਚਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਦੀਨਾ ਧਾਕੁ ॥੧॥
मंदा चितवत चितवत पचिआ जिनि रचिआ तिनि दीना धाकु ॥१॥
Manḏā cẖiṯvaṯ cẖiṯvaṯ pacẖi▫ā jin racẖi▫ā ṯin ḏīnā ḏẖāk. ||1||
Plotting and planning evil, he was destroyed. The One who created him, gave him a push.

ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਮੀਤ ਧਨੁ ਕਿਛੂ ਰਹਿਓ ਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਗਇਆ ਸਭ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਕੁ
पुत्र मीत धनु किछू न रहिओ सु छोडि गइआ सभ भाई साकु ॥
Puṯar mīṯ ḏẖan kicẖẖū na rahi▫o so cẖẖod ga▫i▫ā sabẖ bẖā▫ī sāk.
Of his sons, friends and wealth, nothing remains; he departed, leaving behind all his brothers and relatives.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਨ ਕਾ ਕੀਨੋ ਪੂਰਨ ਵਾਕੁ ॥੨॥੧੮॥੧੦੪॥
कहु नानक तिसु प्रभ बलिहारी जिनि जन का कीनो पूरन वाकु ॥२॥१८॥१०४॥
Kaho Nānak ṯis parabẖ balihārī jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk. ||2||18||104||
Says Nanak, I am a sacrifice to God, who fulfilled the word of His slave. ||2||18||104||
(Ang 825)

So is this not history and proving that Lord helped devotees in History. By given historical references Guru talks of the life of real bhagats also.

Well with Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we have verse without term "Nanak".

Likewise there are verse outside Shri Guru Granth Sahib, with term Nanak and Mahla Pahala also.
 
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Vijaydeep Singh Ji,
Gurfateh.

I am disappointed with your use of derogatory language..Comrade Dalbeer..when in Fact he is Sardar Dalbeer SINGH. Even if he is a Card Carrying Communist Party Member..he is still entitled to hsi name being properly addressed. S. Gurcahran Singh Tohra was a Comrade/atheist..and he was president of SGPC for 25 years as per instructions of Comrade Surjit Singh with connivance of Indira Congress to infiltrate and destroy sikh institutions/sgpc etc..BUT all still refer to him as Jathedar g.S. Tohra and not "comrade tohra"
I respect you...and expect the decorum to be maintained. Let not such langauge destroy/undermine the issues discussed...
Chardeekalla
 
Dec 1, 2006
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Vijaydeep, once again you have just copy pasted a shabad. Where in the original text does it say Khan? If not, then how did you get Sulhee Khan? Other than that, we can talk this shabad at live debate.

Bhatts did khandan of devi devtas, avtaarvaad and other karam kaands. They explained what Nanak's philosophy is and informed people to follow only Aad Purakh, Sdaa Sthir, Waheguru. Your talk also shows that you don't have clear understanding of Bhatt swayas.

Also, like I said before, Nanak joats are Nanak. In Guru Granth Sahib Ji Nanak name is there. That is all that matters. Bhagats had same philosophy as Guru Nanak so they got their place in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Dasam Granth is nasty material so it isn't even work of a Sikh, let alone Guru Ji. You saying that Akaal wrote Dasam Granth holds no value because Akaal Purakh isn't a physical entity to write books or literature. It is easy to change religion but very hard to change manmat.
 

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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Guru Sahib took TEN jamas..a long period of 250 YEARS..2 and half centuries..to Bring about a PARADIGM SHIFT....
Just see how the Christian Church FAILED to change "manmatt pagan rituals"...even the Christmas day, SUNday..Moonday..etc etc halloween..etc etc and had to ADOPT these...as "christian" simply becasue the PUBLIC REFUSED to let go....
Modern sikhi is also going that way..we have FAILED/REFUSED to let go of Jaatpaat, rakhrees, and holis, diwalis and karva chauths...shiv lings and kali matas.....maalas and mantras...when GURU JI THREW THIS ENTIRE LOT into the RUBBISH DUMPSTER...we picked it all back !!!
 

Admin

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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Administrative Warning:

Dear The Khalsa Fauj, the language and manner in which you just posted in two threads is absolutely derogatory and unacceptable and such insensitive language towards any Sikh Scripture will not be tolerated at any cost. If you want to debate anything on Sri Dasam Granth, you are free to do without indulging in trash talk or bad or foul language. Messages filled with hatred will not make you sound more impressive than saying your message in simple and graceful language. SPN is not your personal battle ground. There are many such avenues already available with you.


Please consider this as your Final warning!

Best regards

Aman Singh
 
Dec 1, 2006
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Aman Singh Ji, please tell me what the warning was for exactly. Was it for what I said about Inder or what I said about chandi? What I said about Inder is true because even Gurbani says he raped Ahhaleaa.

Gurbani quote is below:
goqmu qpw AihilAw iesqRI iqsu dyiK ieMdRü luBwieAw ] shs srIr ichn Bg hUey qw min pCoqwieAw ] 1] {gurU gRMQ swihb jI, pMnw 1344}
Gotam Tpaa Ahilleiaa Istaree Tis Dekh Inder Lubhaaeaa || Sahas Sareer Chehan Bhug Hooaye Taa Mun Pashotaaeaa || 1||
Inder became greedy upon seeing Monk Gotam’s wife Ahilleiaa and raped her. He was deeply embarrassed when his other hundreds of rapes were also exposed. 1.

Now could you please enlighten me what you would call someone who fights for a rapist?

I think you misunderstood Inder (devta) with Inder Singh from California. My post was about Inder devta and not Inder Singh from California.

Also, which Sikh scripture did I say anything against? If you are talking about Dasam Granth, most Gurmat Gyani Sikhs don't consider it a Sikh scripture.


I have removed one paragraph because it is something of a taunt, though cleverly worded, of another forum member. I have copied it to the Notepad. So it is not lost forever After discussing it perhaps it can go back into the post. Thank you, aad0002
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Imho Guru Ji is referencing the POWER and HUKM of WAHEGURU. That Sulhi perished in His HUKM..and couldnt harm a hair of Guru Ji...BUT then also in HIS HUKM..Chandu succeeded in martyring Guru Ji on the Hot Plate. ITS ALWAYS HIS HUKM..that is SUPREME.:thumbup:
 

spnadmin

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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Admin note: It is important to debate issues. When we mention the name of a forum member, then we want to be careful not to cast them in a context possibly offensive to them and also to other forum members. It is always a good thing to consider the possibility of a negative interpretation. aad0002
 
Feb 7, 2008
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Aman Singh Ji, please tell me what the warning was for exactly. Was it for what I said about Inder or what I said about chandi? What I said about Inder is true because even Gurbani says he raped Ahhaleaa.

Gurbani quote is below:
goqmu qpw AihilAw iesqRI iqsu dyiK ieMdRü luBwieAw ] shs srIr ichn Bg hUey qw min pCoqwieAw ] 1] {gurU gRMQ swihb jI, pMnw 1344}
Gotam Tpaa Ahilleiaa Istaree Tis Dekh Inder Lubhaaeaa || Sahas Sareer Chehan Bhug Hooaye Taa Mun Pashotaaeaa || 1||
Inder became greedy upon seeing Monk Gotam’s wife Ahilleiaa and raped her. He was deeply embarrassed when his other hundreds of rapes were also exposed. 1.

Now could you please enlighten me what you would call someone who fights for a rapist?

I think you misunderstood Inder (devta) with Inder Singh from California. My post was about Inder devta and not Inder Singh from California.

Also, which Sikh scripture did I say anything against? If you are talking about Dasam Granth, most Gurmat Gyani Sikhs don't consider it a Sikh scripture.


I have removed one paragraph because it is something of a taunt, though cleverly worded, of another forum member. I have copied it to the Notepad. So it is not lost forever After discussing it perhaps it can go back into the post. Thank you, aad0002

Khalsa fauj

I have discussed the issues with you many times. You use abusive language for Dasam granth everywhere. You need to inculcate some civic sense before insuting any religion's prophets.

You call yourself khalsa fauj and say this

quote of khalsa fauj

If you are talking about Dasam Granth, most Gurmat Gyani Sikhs don't consider it a Sikh scripture.

Unquote

With what banis you were administered amrit? You are talking about those Gurmat gians of singhsabhacanada and america ilk who say that a sikh need not have hair. Then how did you become khalsa without hair.
 
Dec 1, 2006
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Khalsa fauj

Unfortunately i am not able to post on this forum.

I have discussed the issues with you many times. You use abusive language for Dasam granth everywhere. You need to inculcate some civic sense before insuting any religion's prophets.

You call yourself khalsa fauj and say this

If you are talking about Dasam Granth, most Gurmat Gyani Sikhs don't consider it a Sikh scripture.

With what banis you were administered Amrit? You are talking about those Gurmat gians of singhsabhacanada and america ilk who say that a Sikh need not have hair. Then how did you become khalsa without hair.

I am not insulting anyone. I just posted quote from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You have issues with what Guru Granth Sahib Ji says? Would you say the same thing to Guru Nanak? Would you say that Guru Nanak was insulting other religions? Stating facts isn't insulting. Dasam Granth uses abusive language for Guru, Sikhs, Bhagats and other good people. I just give Dasam Granth its well deserved reply. I gave you challenge to live debate on Dasam Granth. What happened? You are in California and you said you are well settled in USA so why don't you come to Canada and have a live debate? What is stopping you?

I remember that 5 pyaras told me to only accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as my Guru. That is what I am doing. Do you think I should take up another Guru? If you do, I am sorry to tell you but I will not because I adhere to:

Ika Bani Ik Gur Ikko Shabad Veechar.

Also, the time will come when Akaal Takht maryada will be amended to only include Guru Granth Sahib Ji rachnas in Amrit Sanchars. Like I said before, accept live debate challenge and prove us wrong. Then you will never have to waste time online trying to promote Dasam Granth because you will prove us wrong in live talk. Why don't you get this over with? Don't you want a big panthic issue solved?
 

Admin

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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

Dear All, everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion but using derogatory language to press upon your point of view is unbecoming of a scholar.

Dear Khalsa Fauj, although you posted a one liner from SGGS ji, what you posted in seeking in clarification for our action against you, you could have posted this message directly in response to fellow member's query, but you choose to spit venom using inflammatory language... not allowed at SPN.

Khalsa Fauj, we, respect your indepth knowledge on Sikh history but, even when you personally think what Chandi means to you based on the interpretation of some Sikh Scholars, there are many other Sikh Scholars, who have revered views on the same Sikh Scripture. As i stated earlier, SPN is not our personal battleground. :)

SPN's endeavor is to provide all the parties a nonpartisan arena to resolve these difference of opinions. Personal attacks, foul language, trash talk, baseless accusations will not be allowed at any cost. Please discuss the topic, not the personalities.

:welcome: to SPN! :)

Gurfateh
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

I appreciate your comment and I agree that I could have used better words to explain chandi's works. People like Inder spread false lies about us and say we are against keeping hair and against Khanday Kee Pahul. These lies shouldn't be tolerated either but they are for some reason. We are just against Dasam Granth and not against Pahul or Kakkars. Inder calls us paid agents on government on other forums and accuses us of being Hindus so we just sharpen the language accordingly. People like Inder will never accept challenge to live debate but will keep spewing venom against others. If he is so sure about Dasam Granth, why doesn't he or his crew accept challenge to live debate? He brings in Akaal Takht yet doesn't answer if he follows Akaal Takht maryada himself. He even called me a goondaa on another forum. Could he please tell me where I did thug activity?
 

Admin

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Re: Booklet on Chandi Charitar(Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply to issues by Dalbeer Singh Ji

So there you are Khalsa Fauj, your above post perfectly summarized what we have been telling SPN'ers all these years. Let me interpret your message and SPN's stand on it.

If he is so sure about Dasam Granth, why doesn't he or his crew accept challenge to live debate? He brings in Akaal Takht yet doesn't answer if he follows Akaal Takht maryada himself.
Well, if you want to beat him in his own game by indulging in scholarly debate, SPN is game for such type of discussions. We would simply love to see these kinds of debates without personal attacks.

He even called me a goondaa on another forum. Could he please tell me where I did thug activity?

And then you said above... and when we say SPN is not your personal battleground, this type of commentary is your personal battleground and SPN has nothing to do with it. We can resolve or choose to overlook such baseless accusations and move forward or we can keep on going in circles reaching nowhere. Just because he said you something does not mean that you are like that but then we indulge in counter allegations, personal attacks and vent our frustrations, we basically came down to their level. This is exactly what the others want... playing in their hands. And, then what is the difference between you and him. In your case, Onus is on the accuser to prove that you are a goonda, not yours. You keep on doing what you best at doing... Keep on polishing your knowledge, which is the biggest weapon you have got. Only knowledge will nail your adversaries down. ;)

Let us move forward. :yes: Enough of my yearnings. You are smart enough to get the message. :)
 

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