Booklet On Chandi Charitar (Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply To Issues By Dalbeer Singh Ji | Page 6 | SIKH PHILOSOPHY NETWORK
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Booklet On Chandi Charitar (Shahbaz Khalsa), Reply To Issues By Dalbeer Singh Ji

Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh
Dear Sister,

It is simple, Guru in Six form or bodies recorded Gurbani in Shri Guru Granth Sahib.First Master, Second Master, Third Master, Fourth Master, Fifth Master and Ninth Master.
 
Dec 1, 2006
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So the receiver wrote it down? So receiver is the author. Other than that, I know you will never admit truth. Poet SHyam is poet Shyam. Poet Shyam isn't Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
 

spnadmin

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Forgive me Khalsa ji for repeating myself

Sri Gur Pratap Suraj Granth

Kavi Santokh Singh gives this as the list of the Bavanja Kavi's in the court of Guru Gobind Singh in his magnum opus Suraj Prakash.
Nand Lal Ratee Rai Amrat Rai Attu Asa Singh Balam Iswar Das Sukh Dev Sukha Singh Sukhia Sudama Senapati Shyam Haer Hussain Ali Hans Rao Kallu Kubresh Khan Chand Gania Gurdas Gopal Chandan Chanda Jamaal Dahkan Dharam Singh Dhanna Singh Dhyan Singh Nanu Nihchal Das Nihal Chand Nand Singh Uday Rai Bullo Bhudhi Chand Buland Brikh Braj Lal Mathura Madan Singh Madan Gir Mullo Maan Das Mulla Singh Mangal Ram Raval Roshan Singh Makhan Alam Lakhan
 

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Mahan Kosh

The list is from Mahan Kosh by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha under the phrase 'Bavanja Kavi' (Fifty two poets.)
1. Uday Rai 2. Ani Rai 3. Amrit Rai 4. Allu 5. Asa Singh 6. Alim 7. Ishavar Dass, 8. Sukh Dev, 9. Sukha Singh, 1 0. Sukhia, 11. Sudama, 12. Sainapat, 13. Shyam 14. Heer, 15. Hussain Ali, 16. Hans Ram, 17. Kallu, 18. Kuveresh, 19. Khan Chand, 20. Gunia, 21. Gurdas, 22. Gopal, 23. Chandan, 24. Chanda, 25. Jamaal, 26. Tehkin, 27. Dharam Singh, 28. Dhanna Singh, 29. Dhayan Singh, 30. Nannoo, 31. Nishchal Dass, 32. Nihal Chand, 33. Nand Singh, 34. Nand Lal, 35. Pindi Dass, 36. Ballabh, 37. Balloo, 38. Bidhi Chand, 39. Bulland, 40. Brikh, 41. Brij Lal, 42. Mathura, 43. Madan Singh, 44. Madan Giri, 45. Malloo, 46. Maan Dass, 47. Mala Singh, 48. Mangal, 49. Ram, 50. Rawal, 51. Roshan Singh, 52. Lakha.
 

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Gurfateh
Dear Sister,

It is simple, Guru in Six form or bodies recorded Gurbani in Shri Guru Granth Sahib.First Master, Second Master, Third Master, Fourth Master, Fifth Master and Ninth Master.
OK - Thanks for clearing up a mystery. Now tell me....instead of saying
Six Forms of Guru," why not have said the six gurus whose Bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib --- to begin with? Sharing the same jyote is not the same as "six forms of Guru." It causes confusion -- Because in sargun "form" there were 10 "Forms of Guru" to use your phrase, before Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The six whose bani are in Guruji are 6 of the 10 "forms."
 

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vijaydeep ji,

Along similar lines of argument, you say in an earlier post:

Point 4. Science is told here to see that how could one goddess could come out of head of another demigoddess ? How could this be Gurmat? Well what about this verse in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Where we have fish and lotus giving firth to creatures. In fact comrade uses low level science of Tenth Standard or matriculation. In future we will se science doing wonders when we may have cloning, asexual reproduction etc. We may have reproduction with help of DNA etc of other creatures.


How could this be Gurmat? :shock: "In future we will se science doing wonders when we may have cloning, asexual reproduction etc. We may have reproduction with help of DNA etc of other creatures." What is the connection between what science may do in the future and metaphors of fish and lotus giving birth to creatures in Gurbani?

(੧੩੦੯-, ਕਾਨੜਾ, )
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਮਲ ਪੁਤੁ ਮੀਨ ਬਿਆਸਾ ਤਪੁ ਤਾਪਨ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਵੈਗੋ
breham kamal puth meen biaasaa thap thaapan pooj karaavaigo ||
Brahma, the son of the lotus, and Vyaas, the son of the fish, practiced austere penance and were worshipped.
7 Kaanrhaa Guru Ram Das
(Ang 1309)

Whether you understand this line to symbolize spiritual birth, or whether you actually believe that Brahma is the son of a lotus and Vyaas is the son of a fish (and there was some argument earlier this year about this meaning of this) -- there is no connection to what science might do in the future. Put another way, what science might do in the future is not backup for understanding what the Guru Ram Das was talking about on Ang 1309.


Not to mention -- it provides next to no clue why we should accept that a goddess came out of the head of a demigoddess. You have heard of the author Vandonigan? Was he also receiving a transmission of some kind?

Guru Mat does not find its truth and wisdom in science, or we have Guru Mat being put on the same level as Mann Mat. This is what comes of quoting tuks out of context of Shabad Guru.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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I am flabbergasted at the lengths some will go to misrepresent, misquote, misconstrue..to push their own twisted agenda...wow..and double wow...Thank God for the Internet and Age of WISDOM and EDUCATION of the Masses....no longer possible to hoodwink the discerning....even the dimwitted will understand chalakian..sooner than alter...:D
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Harbans Ji..
UNDERSTANDING..is revelation..like coming of DAWN..as in Mitee DHUND Jagg Channan Hoyah....while confusion is like the coming down of Night..everything covered up.
GURU Nanak ji came to spread LIGHT and DIFFUSE the DARKNESS of confusion, lies, fraudulent behaviour, daags and all....
Guur Ji Kirpa Karange....all will soon begin to understand that Bani IK, Gur IK, Shabd IK and Vichaar IK..IK Oangkar is our Basic Core Philosophy. Confuison will diffuse away with EDUCATION and our attempt at gettign closer to Guru Granth Ji through vichaar and study..and then APPLICATION of the Teachings in our daily lives as the Olden days Singhs used to do much more than us modern day sikhs - they were all SINGHS..while today many prefer to be called SIKHS. Every one must at least aspire to be SINGH..KHALSA...at the very least..live the life accordingly...then we will be strong as we were the rulers then...and make the saying..IN Greeb Sikhon ko deeon Badshahi come true.(Badshah is not necessarily physically rule others...BUT also means SELF CONTROL of the highest order that makes a SINGH - KING )
 

Tejwant Singh

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Gyani ji,

I must be worse than a dimwit, because I do not understand Vijaydeep Singh's posts at all!
Harbans ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please include me in your category. One can say that his posts are random ramblings which have nothing to do with the topics being discussed nor are they in response to the questions that have been directly asked to him. They seem to have some kind of hidden anti Sikh agenda.

One can easily determine after reading a few of them that they are irrationally unreasonable posts with a subliminal push towards Hindutva ideology. The reasons about this push are only known to him and to his cohorts who help him posting them.

Tejwant Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Harbans ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please include me in your category. One can say that his posts are random ramblings which have nothing to do with the topics being discussed nor are they in response to the questions that have been directly asked to him. They seem to have some kind of hidden anti Sikh agenda.

One can easily determine after reading a few of them that they are irrationally unreasonable posts with a subliminal push towards Hindutva ideology. The reasons about this push are only known to him and to his cohorts who help him posting them.

Tejwant Singh
Guru Piayario Jios,

I hate to say "ME TOO" but couldnt help it. Its not easy to understand the "meandering" articles...like a patchwork quilt..all different pieces and patches of cloth sewed together to give an ILLUSION of ONE whole..and the "Quilt" does hide an agenda as Tejwant ji has guessed quite correctly. But we at SPN give the benefit of the doubt to all posters and thus all get an equal chance...besides this gives an opportunity to others to Effectively Counter such MISCONCEPTIONS which is thus EDUCATIONAL for those members who have no clues about them.

Meandering characteristic is first clue to untruth..lies..fabrication..hidden agenda..... - TRUTH is always STRAIGHT to the Bulls EYE type..Short and sweet. Just SEE how Short, sweet and DIRECT TRUTH IS..AAD SACH JUGAAD SACH Nanak hosee bhee SACH....IK Oangkaar !!..SGGS has no parallel...
 
Jul 30, 2004
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<o:p> </o:p>
Dear Sister Das will answer three points raised by you.
<o:p> </o:p>
Nabha Sahib And Kavi Santokh Singh Ji talking of name Syam in 52 poets. Fact is that Prof Sahib Singh Ji also talked of the same. But Kavi Santokh Singh Ji also talk of Devi helping Dushtdaman which in the book called Devi Pujan Partal is proven to be false. There is an error in Nabha Sahib Mahan Kosh regarding the age of Baba Srichand Ji and His succecor Baba Gurditta Ji so that at one place they did not meet at all while within Mahan Kosh the latter is beheld the successor of the former. Das will now buy a book which has the content of poems by poets of Guru’s court and will give you the names again.
<o:p> </o:p>
Das has proved with examples that this “Syam” in Krishnavatar and Charitropakhyan has same name as Ram(kindly read the article das put in order to remove the confusion by Ambala Sahib, where same verses has two name of the poet as Ram and Syam. There are similar examples in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji too.
<o:p> </o:p>
Coming to drawing the spiritual conclusion, why can not we see that from White(peacefull) ladies mind/brain/head black(fearsome) lady came out. Why are we not attempting in that direction also. Anyway in both the case of fish, lotus and head, we have stories in Hindu Mythology, which Guru Maharaj has used to let us understand Gurmat by those examples.
<o:p> </o:p>
In the cases of Bodied form of the Gurus, they got Messages from the Dhur Ki Bani or Verse of God, they spoke and scribes noted.
<o:p> </o:p>
Das is happy when he is accused but is accountable to Akal, Ekai Hari(one Sustainor).
 

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vijaydeep bhai ji

Sorry you came to the conclusion that I am a "white (peaceful) lady" who suddenly morphed into a "black (fearsome) lady." Though my name roughly translates One Whose Abode Is In the Water, one thing I am sure I am not. Not a fish! Nor am I crocodile in my fearsome form and never a deer in my peaceful form. (as per Dasam Granth ;)

It is important to be cognizant of Hindu myths when doing vichaar of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. That kind of knowledge brings a strong sense of context to the words of our Gurus. It is even more important to grasp that the Guru Granth begins with a clear statement. ikoankaar sathnaam karathaa purakh nirabho niravair akaal moorath ajoonee saibhan gurprasaadh||

Now are you going to tell me that this statement requires a Puranic de-coder ring to be understood?

I will get back regarding the Ram Shyam point of contention later. It is however in my mind a settled matter that Siam is/was a poet in the court of Sri Guru Gobind Singh. I am not sure where you are headed in bringing this matter of Ram and Shyam up again. Will stay tuned. Thanks.

 

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