japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Beautiful article Randeep Jee. Permit me to add in it, the aspect of compassion. In Guru Granth Sahib word , 'ਦਇਆ' is appeared almost 719 times. Close look at the pankties where word 'ਦਇਆ' is used, it shows Guru is directing me to show mercy on the miserable state of my manh which most of time conspires to suck the blood of fellow human beings and persuade manh to surrender and blend with divine traits. How could they be called vegetarian who, 'ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.19.10 suck the blood of fellow beings by dominating, exploiting etc?
 
There is a saying in punjabi " ਵਾਲ ਦੀ ਖੱਲ ਲਾਹੁਣੀ ". This is what we are doing.

1. Those who want to eat WILL eat meat and interpret Gurbani that it does not prohibit one from eating meat.
2. Those who don't eat meat, The WILL not and will find something in Gurbani which supports this logic.

Who is right /who is wrong only God knows, because NONE of the thousand comments above satisfy question(Is it OK to eat meat or not?)

In the end, its not possible that truth will win, but I guess majority will. So if majority favors meat eating, then they will present it as ultimate truth and if majority is vegetarians, then they will announce it as ultimate truth.

After all discussions, it will remain as a Personal Choice. and we all know how many Right choices we have made so far with our intellect.:winkingmunda:

This is not a topic where anyone can comment unless they have SPIRITUALLY seen any advantage or disadvantage and I wonder how many of the comments above are from personal experience and NOT personal choice.


Wahguru ji ki fateh.

PS: I am a Vegetarian.
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
There is a saying in punjabi " ਵਾਲ ਦੀ ਖੱਲ ਲਾਹੁਣੀ ". This is what we are doing.

1. Those who want to eat WILL eat meat and interpret Gurbani that it does not prohibit one from eating meat.
2. Those who don't eat meat, The WILL not and will find something in Gurbani which supports this logic.

Who is right /who is wrong only God knows, because NONE of the thousand comments above satisfy question(Is it OK to eat meat or not?)

In the end, its not possible that truth will win, but I guess majority will. So if majority favors meat eating, then they will present it as ultimate truth and if majority is vegetarians, then they will announce it as ultimate truth.

After all discussions, it will remain as a Personal Choice. and we all know how many Right choices we have made so far with our intellect.:winkingmunda:

This is not a topic where anyone can comment unless they have SPIRITUALLY seen any advantage or disadvantage and I wonder how many of the comments above are from personal experience and NOT personal choice.


Wahguru ji ki fateh.

PS: I am a Vegetarian.

notanotherloginplease,

Guru Fateh.

I see a bit of contradiction in your post above. As it is a personal choice, then every chooser is a winner. It has nothing to do with the majority.

The fact of the matter is that we humans have to consume life in order to survive whether it is Filet Mignon or Watercress under Hearts of Palm with a squeeze of a lemon and extra virgin olive oil. I am not ready to discuss about the virginity of the oil though.

All living things are alive and are thriving according to Gurbani.

I am a life eater, hence a survivor.
 
notanotherloginplease,

Guru Fateh.

I see a bit of contradiction in your post above. As it is a personal choice, then every chooser is a winner. It has nothing to do with the majority.

The fact of the matter is that we humans have to consume life in order to survive whether it is Filet Mignon or Watercress under Hearts of Palm with a squeeze of a lemon and extra virgin olive oil. I am not ready to discuss about the virginity of the oil though.

All living things are alive and are thriving according to Gurbani.

I am a life eater, hence a survivor.

Tejwant Ji,

I was making fun of personal choice excuse.

1. Nothing is a personal choice for a Sikh. If its a personal choice, then cutting hairs is OK,Drinking/smoking weed is OK,raping women is OK, Idol worship is OK. We shall only be allowed to make personal choices when we become one with the lord.
2. I agree that life can only survive by consuming other life form.

So why don't we start eating humans?

as far as question of 'all living things alive' is concerned. yes they are, plants are alive too so are rabbits and chickens.
many plants shed fruits when they are ripe, have you seen chickens offering their legs for someone to eat?

We call ourselves Sikhs- where is mercy of Sikhs, has Guru Ji ordered us only to save humans beings, have mercy on humans and be cruel to animals?
Wear kirpaan to save yourself and fellow human beings, but use same kirpaan to kill animals.

I believe answer is NO. Sikhs wear kirpaan to help helpless.I found animals helpless when they are slaughtered , so I dont eat meat.

**** If somebody feels like responding please read everything above and explain, not just the last line of this post. Please . Peace.

And because I have talked about personal experience in my last post.
There is an example: please answer these as well.

1.Pluck an orange, carrot or apple - eat it- What do you feel when you sleep?
Answer please:
2. Kill a mosquito or lizard- How do you feel?
Answer please:
3: Kill a pigeon or parrot: how do you feel?
Answer please:
4: Kill a dog or a cow- How do you feel?
Answer please:
5: Kill a human- How do you feel ?(ofcourse bad because police is after you or already caught you lol)

In above 5 questions , you have killed different life forms and degree of sadness or guilt will increase from 1 to 5. Think Why
 
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Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Tejwant Ji,

I was making fun of personal choice excuse.

1. Nothing is a personal choice for a Sikh. If its a personal choice, then cutting hairs is OK,Drinking/smoking weed is OK,raping women is OK, Idol worship is OK. We shall only be allowed to make personal choices when we become one with the lord.
2. I agree that life can only survive by consuming other life form.

So why don't we start eating humans?

as far as question of 'all living things alive' is concerned. yes they are, plants are alive too so are rabbits and chickens.
many plants shed fruits when they are ripe, have you seen chickens offering their legs for someone to eat?

We call ourselves Sikhs- where is mercy of Sikhs, has Guru Ji ordered us only to save humans beings, have mercy on humans and be cruel to animals?
Wear kirpaan to save yourself and fellow human beings, but use same kirpaan to kill animals.

I believe answer is NO. Sikhs wear kirpaan to help helpless.I found animals helpless when they are slaughtered , so I dont eat meat.

**** If somebody feels like responding please read everything above and explain, not just the last line of this post. Please . Peace.

And because I have talked about personal experience in my last post.
There is an example: please answer these as well.

1.Pluck an orange, carrot or apple - eat it- What do you feel when you sleep?
Answer please:
2. Kill a mosquito or lizard- How do you feel?
Answer please:
3: Kill a pigeon or parrot: how do you feel?
Answer please:
4: Kill a dog or a cow- How do you feel?
Answer please:
5: Kill a human- How do you feel ?(ofcourse bad because police is after you or already caught you lol)

In above 5 question , you have killed different life forms and degree of sadness or or guilty will increase from 1 to 5. Think Why

notanotherloginplease ji,

Guru Fateh.

Let's not deviate from the topic of the thread which is wrangling about eating or not eating meat. Let's stick to that choice of the topic which is personal. :)
 
notanotherloginplease ji,

Guru Fateh.

Let's not deviate from the topic of the thread which is wrangling about eating or not eating meat. Let's stick to that choice of the topic which is personal. :)

ha ha ha.. Tejwant veer ji,I am not deviating from topic.

What is the aim to start this topic? if it is just to write a shabad from gurbani, then I am sorry, I was deviating from topic.

But if it is to discuss that shabad then I am just doing my part. :)
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
ha ha ha.. Tejwant veer ji,I am not deviating from topic.

What is the aim to start this topic? if it is just to write a shabad from gurbani, then I am sorry, I was deviating from topic.

But if it is to discuss that shabad then I am just doing my part. :)

notanotherloginplease ji,

Guru Fateh.

Pardon my ignorance but I do not find any discussion about the shabad in your couple of posts that I have interacted with you so far. In fact you are deviating by talking about pain etc. etc.

Am I missing something here?

Please share your understanding about the Shabad if you wish to so we can have a discussion on that.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
notanotherloginji

1. Nothing is a personal choice for a Sikh. If its a personal choice, then cutting hairs is OK,Drinking/smoking weed is OK,raping women is OK, Idol worship is OK. We shall only be allowed to make personal choices when we become one with the lord.

Your understanding differs from my own, you make Sikhism sound like a set of rules that must be adhered to in order to 'become one with the lord'. Everything is personal choice for a Sikh, in my mind the idea is to align your personal choice with the truth as written in the SGGS. It is not a matter of what is ok or not, ie, is it ok to celebrate pooerenmashi, is it ok to not have air conditioning in Babaji's room, I think it is more a case of drink if you want, but accept the consequences, smoke weed if you want, but be prepared for the multitude of chemicals washing around in your brain, I, personally have never wanted to rape women or worship idols, so I do not need anyone to tell me those things are ok.

2. I agree that life can only survive by consuming other life form.

So why don't we start eating humans?

some do..........

as far as question of 'all living things alive' is concerned. yes they are, plants are alive too so are rabbits and chickens.
many plants shed fruits when they are ripe, have you seen chickens offering their legs for someone to eat?

I see, I guess you do not eat potatoes then, ripping them from mother earth, while they sleep peacefully in the soil. Carrots are out too, your a strange vegetarian if your rules of eating are only what is offered and shed. I guess milk is out too, what do you survive on?

We call ourselves Sikhs- where is mercy of Sikhs, has Guru Ji ordered us only to save humans beings, have mercy on humans and be cruel to animals?

Guruji ordered us to live in consonance with the world, by your logic, the Sikhs of old should have gone to war holding flowers and sweets, maybe your forefathers were there holding placards with 'war is murder'. I do not agree with cruelty to anyone or anything, but it is possible to eat an animal without being cruel and showing respect.

I believe answer is NO. Sikhs wear kirpaan to help helpless.I found animals helpless when they are slaughtered , so I dont eat meat.

I see, have you ensured that through your lifestyle, no animals are harmed from your activities? From the car you drive, the plane you travel on, trains, clothes, consumer items, do you ensure that no animal was harmed in the many by products that enable you to live your life?

1.Pluck an orange, carrot or apple - eat it- What do you feel when you sleep?
Answer please:

slightly acidic

2. Kill a mosquito or lizard- How do you feel?
Answer please:

Well I do kill quite a few mosquitos, when I walk my dogs, they keep biting my head, and then it swells, and as I am bald, I end up looking like sloth from the goonies, so it is quite satisfying to catch one in mid bite. I have never killed a lizard, I have no reason to kill lizards any more than I have a reason to kill new born babies, how would I feel if I killed one for no reason.. uhmm its a pointless question, just because I eat meat does not make me a mad animal hating killer.

3: Kill a pigeon or parrot: how do you feel?

I have killed a pigeon, one hit my windscreen, but luckily it was a range rover, so the damage was more to the car than the pigeon, although, it did die, I felt sad, pointless death makes me sad.

4: Kill a dog or a cow- How do you feel?
Answer please:

I have killed a dog, he had to be put down, it was my decision, he was ill, I sat with him, cuddled him as the vet injected him, looked into his eyes, until they closed, cried a bit, I have never killed a cow, although I really sometimes wanted to kill my ex wife sometimes, not sure if that counts.

5: Kill a human- How do you feel ?(ofcourse bad because police is after you or already caught you lol)

interesting, you assume one would only feel bad if you are caught or in the process of being caught, if I had to kill a human, I would do it if the circumstances merited it, and I would not feel bad at all, but then that's the great thing about the truth, it is the truth, in certain circumstances killing another human can be absolutely true, or it can be absolutely false, in my view, a good Sikh does all he can to find the absolute truth in everything, would I go to war, absolutely yes, would I kill, no problem, it is easier to kill a human trying to rape your wife than swat a mosquito,
 
notanotherloginji


Your understanding differs from my own, you make Sikhism sound like a set of rules that must be adhered to in order to 'become one with the lord'.
I think yes, it differs and yes there are set rules which cannot be changed, if they were to be changed then Guru's should not have objected on "mitti be-imaan ki , instead of mitti muslmaan ki.
Everything is personal choice for a Sikh, in my mind the idea is to align your personal choice with the truth as written in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
This is true, personal choices could be wrong, so they need to be aligned or CHANGED according to truth in Guru Granth Sahib.
It is not a matter of what is ok or not, ie, is it ok to celebrate pooerenmashi, is it ok to not have air conditioning in Babaji's room, I think it is more a case of drink if you want, but accept the consequences, smoke weed if you want, but be prepared for the multitude of chemicals washing around in your brain, I, personally have never wanted to rape women or worship idols, so I do not need anyone to tell me those things are ok.
Nobody is telling you that above things are right,please read again and try to understand the whole sentence.

And Acceptance wont change the consequences. if your kid is eating too many lollies and you know that he is diabetic, you will try to avoid him, even if he is ready to accept the consequences. WHY? Same goes to us.




some do..........
This comment doesn't make sense at all. I am not talking about those primitive men or the ones living in jungle who are less evolved and may have physical appearance similar to men but have intellectual level of animals. If you are comparing yourself to them, then its OK. ;)

Please give reference for you comment. any country any region etc. where law does not prohibits this.


I see, I guess you do not eat potatoes then, ripping them from mother earth, while they sleep peacefully in the soil. Carrots are out too, your a strange vegetarian if your rules of eating are only what is offered and shed. I guess milk is out too, what do you survive on?

I eat vegetables, potatoes ripped from earth, i dont know if they are sleeping or not, never heard them snoring. Do you want me to answer like this? If not then I also dont expect such childish answers.


We call ourselves Sikhs- where is mercy of Sikhs, has Guru Ji ordered us only to save humans beings, have mercy on humans and be cruel to animals?


Guruji ordered us to live in consonance with the world, by your logic, the Sikhs of old should have gone to war holding flowers and sweets, maybe your forefathers were there holding placards with 'war is murder'. I do not agree with cruelty to anyone or anything, but it is possible to eat an animal without being cruel and showing respect.

I am not saying that they should go on war with flowers, War was against cruelty not in favor of it. Please explain above in pink. Thats the funniest thing I have ever heard. Killing someone without cruelty and paying respect. That's hilarious really. Joke of the Year




I see, have you ensured that through your lifestyle, no animals are harmed from your activities? From the car you drive, the plane you travel on, trains, clothes, consumer items, do you ensure that no animal was harmed in the many by products that enable you to live your life?

I try to ensure as much as I can.


slightly acidic



Well I do kill quite a few mosquitos, when I walk my dogs, they keep biting my head, and then it swells, and as I am bald, I end up looking like sloth from the goonies, so it is quite satisfying to catch one in mid bite. I have never killed a lizard, I have no reason to kill lizards any more than I have a reason to kill new born babies, how would I feel if I killed one for no reason.. uhmm its a pointless question, just because I eat meat does not make me a mad animal hating killer.



I have killed a pigeon, one hit my windscreen, but luckily it was a range rover, so the damage was more to the car than the pigeon, although, it did die, I felt sad, pointless death makes me sad.



I have killed a dog, he had to be put down, it was my decision, he was ill, I sat with him, cuddled him as the vet injected him, looked into his eyes, until they closed, cried a bit, I have never killed a cow, although I really sometimes wanted to kill my ex wife sometimes, not sure if that counts.



interesting, you assume one would only feel bad if you are caught or in the process of being caught, if I had to kill a human, I would do it if the circumstances merited it, and I would not feel bad at all, but then that's the great thing about the truth, it is the truth, in certain circumstances killing another human can be absolutely true, or it can be absolutely false, in my view, a good Sikh does all he can to find the absolute truth in everything, would I go to war, absolutely yes, would I kill, no problem, it is easier to kill a human trying to rape your wife than swat a mosquito,

Please see above in blue.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
This comment doesn't make sense at all. I am not talking about those primitive men or the ones living in jungle who are less evolved and may have physical appearance similar to men but have intellectual level of animals. If you are comparing yourself to them, then its OK.
wink.gif

http://listverse.com/2008/12/19/top-10-cases-of-human-cannibalism/

none of the above live in jungles

I eat vegetables, potatoes ripped from earth, i dont know if they are sleeping or not, never heard them snoring. Do you want me to answer like this? If not then I also dont expect such childish answers.

actually its called sarcasm, if you wish to hear a potato snoring try potatosnorings.com!

but it is possible to eat an animal without being cruel and showing respect.

I am not saying that they should go on war with flowers, War was against cruelty not in favor of it. Please explain above in pink.
Thats the funniest thing I have ever heard. Killing someone without cruelty and paying respect. That's hilarious really. Joke of the Year



I am glad you find the concept funny, we will discuss it again when you find the maturity to understand it.

I try to ensure as much as I can

so your actions still cause animals to die, you compromise, I am what I am and I am happy to stand up and proclaim it rather than hide behind a holier than thou attitude, whilst still causing the same effect, good luck with that one
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
notanotherloginji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

I think yes, it differs and yes there are set rules which cannot be changed, if they were to be changed then Guru's should not have objected on "mitti be-imaan ki , instead of mitti muslmaan ki.

Would you be kind enough to start a new thread and post the whole Shabad "mitti be-imaan ki" with your own understanding? You may use the literal translation in English but along with your own interpretation as literal traslations are quite misleading and more importantly, poetry can only be interpreted by the individual.

Also, please share your thoughts about the common Sakhi, "mitti muslmaan ki" which has become very common and many people use it for the reasons only known to them.

Does the Sakhi compliment what is written in Mool mantar or contradicts it and in which way if it does either?

Hope to learn from you about the Shabad's understanding in your own words which was penned by our first Guru Nanak and the Sakhi which supposedly happened during our 7th Guru, Guru Har Rai's time about a couple of centuries after.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: The reason I have asked you for the above because one liners are not allowed here. Hence, we request the full Shabad with the personal understanding from all so that we can learn from each other.
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
I apologise. I inadvertently reversed the order. This is the corrected version.

Would you be kind enough to start a new thread and post the whole Shabad "mitti muslmaan ki" with your own understanding? You may use the literal translation in English but along with your own interpretation as literal traslations are quite misleading and more importantly, poetry can only be interpreted by the individual.

Also, please share your thoughts about the common Sakhi, "mitti be-imaan ki" which has become very common and many people use it for the reasons only known to them.

Does the Sakhi compliment what is written in Mool mantar or contradicts it and in which way if it does either?

Hope to learn from you about the Shabad's understanding in your own words which was penned by our first Guru Nanak and the Sakhi which supposedly happened during our 7th Guru, Guru Har Rai's time about a couple of centuries after.

Tejwant Singh
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
Beautiful article Randeep Jee. Permit me to add in it, the aspect of compassion. In Guru Granth Sahib word , 'ਦਇਆ' is appeared almost 719 times. Close look at the pankties where word 'ਦਇਆ' is used, it shows Guru is directing me to show mercy on the miserable state of my manh which most of time conspires to suck the blood of fellow human beings and persuade manh to surrender and blend with divine traits. How could they be called vegetarian who, 'ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.19.10 suck the blood of fellow beings by dominating, exploiting etc?

Absolutely!

Visiting India a few years ago I met some real pious people who were making a show of being pure and being vegetarian and how where they sold food was pure vegetarian. But when a hungry begger came to their shop to ask for alms they shooed him a away! Where was the compassion there?

"Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom."

..and even if they do give something, do they do it because they genuinly want to help someone or out of ego? They feel they will get something out of it? :icecreamkaur:
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
There is a saying in punjabi " ਵਾਲ ਦੀ ਖੱਲ ਲਾਹੁਣੀ ". This is what we are doing.

1. Those who want to eat WILL eat meat and interpret Gurbani that it does not prohibit one from eating meat.
2. Those who don't eat meat, The WILL not and will find something in Gurbani which supports this logic.

Who is right /who is wrong only God knows, because NONE of the thousand comments above satisfy question(Is it OK to eat meat or not?)

In the end, its not possible that truth will win, but I guess majority will. So if majority favors meat eating, then they will present it as ultimate truth and if majority is vegetarians, then they will announce it as ultimate truth.

After all discussions, it will remain as a Personal Choice. and we all know how many Right choices we have made so far with our intellect.:winkingmunda:

This is not a topic where anyone can comment unless they have SPIRITUALLY seen any advantage or disadvantage and I wonder how many of the comments above are from personal experience and NOT personal choice.


Wahguru ji ki fateh.

PS: I am a Vegetarian.

Ok lets say for one minute that we are going to talk about meat/vegetarianism, I was convinced many years ago that vegetarianism was the way. Then I discovered that lacto-vegetarianism (what a lot of Sikhs practice) was hypocritical. So I tried veganism. That made me incredibly ill. So much so I got anaemic and found it function on a day to day. ...but I knew lacto-vegetarianism was hypocritical (vis a vis eggs).

I therefore started to research Sikh History. I knew our Guru's were intellectuals first and used logic and reason in their arguments. I discovered the following.

1) Guru Nanak definitely encountered and ate meat.
2) Meat was part of langaar up until the second Guru , but it was removed because of objections by Vaishnavs ad lanaagr should be open to all. Plus Muslims wanted meat prepared with their rights. Hidu's would not eat the meat of the mlecchaa or kuttha.
3) Bhai Gurdas (who kept excellent records of the Guru's activities) described the Guru's as avid hunters (Particularly HarGobind) and eating meat.
4) Hukamanama's supposedly written by Guru HarGobind condeming meat turning out to be false and contracdiciting Guru Gobind Singh's verified Hukamanama advising Sikh's to stay away from Kuttha.
5) The ONLY time we have a disagreement over diet amongst Sikhs over meat and vegetarianism is when Bandha Bahadhur causes a rift and sstates everyone should be a vegetarian. This causes a split amongst Bandhahi Sikhs and Khalsa Sikh's.
6) We also have the distortion's of Vaishnavite groups such as Nirmala's and Udasis's trying to advocate vegetarianism....and passs off their beliefs as Sikhi (we have groups such as AKJ etc that descended from that school of thought)
7) Then in the late 19th century Sikh ranks are swelled by Vaishnavite converts who pass off their vegetarian lifestyles as part of Sikhism.
8) Then we have groups like DDT being taken over why the staunchly vegetarian Bhindrawala groups (again influenced by Nirmala's and Udasis).
9) Then we have Radhaoswami's etc, clearly Vashnavite groups at the heart of teh SGPC now.

That brings us to today. Analysing history, one see's a clear pattern of infiltration and distortion of Bani to suit certain agenda's. The meat eaters on the large have stayed quiet and not say much, it is the Vaishnavites I would say have had an agenda. I find this disturbing, as Vaishnavism and their own ideals do not fit in with Sikhism.

So what you see is a bigger issue emerging than just diet. It's about the very core thinking of Sikhism. The very basis of the Sikh thought process is being eroded. We are being turned into bearded Brahmins, more concerened about purety and appearance than about action and consequence.
 
That brings us to today. Analysing history, one see's a clear pattern of infiltration and distortion of Bani to suit certain agenda's. The meat eaters on the large have stayed quiet and not say much, it is the Vaishnavites I would say have had an agenda. I find this disturbing, as Vaishnavism and their own ideals do not fit in with Sikhism.
So what you see is a bigger issue emerging than just diet. It's about the very core thinking of Sikhism. The very basis of the Sikh thought process is being eroded. We are being turned into bearded Brahmins, more concerened about purety and appearance than about action and consequence.
Randip Singh ji,
Well put.
The other day a Punjabi friend of mine who very recently took Amrit was explaining how one of the hardest of being Amritdhari was to maintain a vegetarian diet. I commented that living in truth was much harder. All he did was sort of nod and kept on with the conversation. I didn't want to press the issue but I think it completely passed him by.
On a different occasion this same fellow was explaining that Seva will bring you rewards in this life but Wahe Guru Simran (Wahe Guru Japa)is what will connect you to Ek Ong Kar. I really love fellow and all his family . They have been so welcoming to me and my wife so I don't really want to argue with him .
Another incident is of another very dear ours friend posting pictures of her and her friends celebrating the fast for Karwa Chauth.
As a newcomer I feel presumptuous discussing these things with my Punjabi friends but it is somewhat disheartening to see ,what I consider, distortions of Sikhi happening so frequently.



 
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Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
That brings us to today. Analysing history, one see's a clear pattern of infiltration and distortion of Bani to suit certain agenda's. The meat eaters on the large have stayed quiet and not say much, it is the Vaishnavites I would say have had an agenda. I find this disturbing, as Vaishnavism and their own ideals do not fit in with Sikhism.
So what you see is a bigger issue emerging than just diet. It's about the very core thinking of Sikhism. The very basis of the Sikh thought process is being eroded. We are being turned into bearded Brahmins, more concerened about purety and appearance than about action and consequence.
Randip Singh ji,
Well put.
The other day a Punjabi friend of mine who very recently took Amrit was explaining how one of the hardest of being Amritdhari was to maintain a vegetarian diet. I commented that living in truth was much harder. All he did was sort of nod and kept on with the conversation. I didn't want to press the issue but I think it completely passed him by.
On a different occasion this same fellow was explaining that Seva will bring you rewards in this life but Wahe Guru Simran (Wahe Guru Japa)is what will connect you to Ek Ong Kar. I really love fellow and all his family . They have been so welcoming to me and my wife so I don't really want to argue with him .
Another incident is of another very dear ours friend posting pictures of her and her friends celebrating the fast for Karwa Chauth.
As a newcomer I feel presumptuous discussing these things with my Punjabi friends but it is somewhat disheartening to see ,what I consider, distortions of Sikhi happening so frequently.




Some very salient points.
 

kggr001

SPNer
The reason I don't eat meat is cause I freakin love animals also it wouldn't feel alright knowing that something with alot of human characteristics is killed to fill my belly.

I know that plants also do feel pain, but pain can be interpretted by organisms in many different ways.

Few years ago I saw video about how they were killing a cow, the butcher was slowly cutting the cow's throat. It felt like someone was killing a human infront of me. Animals are somuch alike us and also in some ways beter then most of us.

Animals too know Love(e.g. see a mother taking care of her childeren), Fear, Lust, Anger etc..
The only thing they lack is intelligence like we have.
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
The reason I don't eat meat is cause I freakin love animals also it wouldn't feel alright knowing that something with alot of human characteristics is killed to only fill my belly.

I know that plants also feel pain, but pain can be interpretted by organisms in many different ways.

Well this thread is not about that. It is about the Sikh point of view. :interestedsingh:
 

kggr001

SPNer
I would find it really weird that someone eats meat or not eat meat cause Sikhism says so. People shouldn't base there views on whatever they should or shouldn't do, everyone should make there own choices.

I'm not trying to say that you guys shouldn't discuss about the sikh view of it, just saying that everyone should make there own choices and not base them on whatever religion say.

If you feel ok with eating meat then eat it, if not then don't eat it.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
I would find it really weird that someone eats meat or not eat meat cause Sikhism says so. People shouldn't base there views on whatever they should or shouldn't do, everyone should make there own choices.

I'm not trying to say that you guys shouldn't discuss about the sikh view of it, just saying that everyone should make there own choices and not base them on whatever religion say.

If you feel ok with eating meat then eat it, if not then don't eat it.

Thats EXACTLY what Guur nanak ji is saying....BUT then we are living in the 3rd millineum..and we think we are far cleverer than the GURU...so we FORCE FEED everybody on what they should do and shouldnt do..eat or dont eat...

ha ha
 

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