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Randip Singh

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Randip Ji..i stand corrected..ONLY Dhur Ki bani is PERFECT.PERIOD.
Still..the Essay doesnt contain real "Flaws " of reasoning/logic/gurbani interpretation..thats all.

Indeed that is so. The Vaishnav interpretations of Bani will ultimately lead us down the wrong path. The damage is here to be seen already.

I've talked to one of the authors and I am going to be allowed to correct some of the grammar.
 
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Randip Singh

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Bhagat Singh ji thanks for your efforts but the urge to win the argument at all costs is showing its ugly head icecreammundaLet us review the full context of above one liner,

Sat Sri Akal.

Indeed thats why I refuse to participate. One has to have a bare minimum of understanding of Sikhism, Sikh History and Sikh Polity in order to understand Bani. The point of the essay is exactly what our friend Bhaghat Singh seems to be doing:

1) Not realising that this is a direct attack on the Invasion of Timur which was done in the name of Islam
2) Not understanding that the word Hayra hunt/meat/or not is irrelevant in the context of the shabad, in that it talks about simplicity and not hypocrasy. I mean you could replace this word with cavier, pineapple, mangoe, karah/halwa and the meaning would be exactly the same of the shabad.
3) Lack of understanding of words like Bismil and Halal, and thinking they only mean kill. I wonder if the Halal toothpaste in my local muslim shop had been killed :D
4) Pulling out one lines in the shabads and distorting the shabads. In the above, actual distorting the entire meaning of the shabad.
5) Treating the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as an A la carte menu of what to eat and not to eat. Something I personally find abhorrent.
6) Allowing his Krodh and Egotism to dictate what Bani whould say rather than what it should say.
7) I've been through several translations of this shabad, and Bhagat Singh interpretation is the most unique I have found. I have not found a single Sikh intellectual of note that agrees with his interpretation.

From the essay:

MOTIVATIONS BEHIND MISTRANSLATION AND MISREPRESENTATION

There are several reasons behind why these mistranslations and misrepresentations have occurred:
· The publishers have a lack of education and do not understand the meaning of words in Gurmukhi and the correct translation into English.
· In their eagerness to promote their own brand of Sikhism (Sant, Jatha etc) they have deliberately allowed mistranslation and misrepresentation.
· Genuine abhorrence of killing animals can be a motivation too (eg those people that believe in Animal Rights), however Sikhism should not be used as a tool to promote such agendas.
· Poor knowledge of history and the context in which the Gurus and Bhaghats wrotes these Angs is a factor too. This can lead to a misrepresentation.
· In conclusion one can only say that it is very important that Sikh institution promote a clear and concise programme where only those with a certain amount of knowledge in Sikh History and the Sikh Language, should be officially sanctioned as being translators for the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.


:noticemunda:
 
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Randip Singh

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Veer Ji ,by grace eat and be thankful but place no black marks against anyone else,only then you are truly not hurting life.The tongue can be the knife and can make you a butcher or beautiful.

You are 100% , Bhaghat Singh ji forgive me for my comments. Section edited in the essay as well:

4. Bhagat Kabir says, that the best food is eating kichree (daal/lentils) where nectar sweet is the salt. You eat hunted meat, but which animal is willing to have their head cut ? (Sri Guru Granth Sahib p1374)

Let us add this to the correct context:

oraa gar paanee bha-i-aa jaa-ay mili-o dhal kool.
kabeeraa Dhoor sakayl kai puree-aa baaNDhee dayh.
divas chaar ko paykhnaa ant khayh kee khayh.
kabeer sooraj chaaNd kai udai bha-ee sabh dayh.
gur gobind kay bin milay palat bha-ee sabh khayh.
jah anbha-o tah bhai nahee jah bha-o tah har naahi.
kahi-o kabeer bichaar kai sant sunhu man maahi.
kabeer jinahu kichhoo jaani-aa nahee tin sukh need bihaa-ay.
hamhu jo boojhaa boojhnaa pooree paree balaa-ay.
laagee chot maramm kee rahi-o kabeeraa tha-ur.
kabeer chot suhaylee sayl kee laagat lay-ay usaas.
chot sahaarai sabad kee taas guroo mai daas.
kabeer mulaaN munaaray ki-aa chadheh saaN-ee na bahraa ho-ay.
jaa kaaran tooN baaNg deh dil hee bheetar jo-ay.
saykh sabooree baahraa ki-aa haj kaabay jaa-ay.
kabeer jaa kee dil saabat nahee taa ka-o kahaaN khudaa-ay.
kabeer alah kee kar bandagee jih simrat dukh jaa-ay.
dil meh saaN-ee pargatai bujhai balantee naaN-ay.
kabeer joree kee-ay julam hai kahtaa naa-o halaal.
daftar laykhaa maaNgee-ai tab ho-igo ka-un havaal.
kabeer khoob khaanaa kheechree jaa meh amrit lon.
hayraa rotee kaarnay galaa kataavai ka-un.
kabeer gur laagaa tab jaanee-ai mitai moh tan taap.
harakh sog daajhai nahee tab har aapeh aap.
kabeer raam kahan meh bhayd hai taa meh ayk bichaar.
so-ee raam sabhai kaheh so-ee ka-utakhaar.
kabeer raamai raam kaho kahibay maahi bibayk.
ayk anaykeh mil ga-i-aa ayk samaanaa ayk.
kabeer jaa ghar saaDh na sayvee-ah har kee sayvaa naahi.
tay ghar marhat saarkhay bhoot baseh tin maahi.
kabeer goongaa hoo-aa baavraa bahraa hoo-aa kaan.
paavhu tay pingul bha-i-aa maari-aa satgur baan.
kabeer satgur soormay baahi-aa baan jo ayk.
laagat hee bhu-ay gir pari-aa paraa karayjay chhayk.
kabeer nirmal boond akaas kee par ga-ee bhoom bikaar.

The hail-stone has melted into water, and flowed into the ocean.
Kabeer, the body is a pile of dust, collected and packed together.
It is a show which lasts for only a few days, and then dust returns to dust.
Kabeer, bodies are like the rising and setting of the sun and the moon.
Without meeting the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, they are all reduced to dust again.
Where the Fearless Lord is, there is no fear; where there is fear, the Lord is not there.
Kabeer speaks after careful consideration; hear this, O Saints, in your minds.
Kabeer, those who do not know anything, pass their lives in peaceful sleep.
But I have understood the riddle; I am faced with all sorts of troubles.
Struck by the Mystery of God, Kabeer remains silent.
Kabeer, the stroke of a lance is easy to bear; it takes away the breath.
But one who endures the stroke of the Word of the Shabad is the Guru, and I am his slave.
Kabeer: O Mullah, why do you climb to the top of the minaret? The Lord is not hard of hearing.
Look within your own heart for the One, for whose sake you shout your prayers.
Why does the Shaykh bother to go on pilgrimage to Mecca, if he is not content with himself?
Kabeer, one whose heart is not healthy and whole - how can he attain his Lord?
Kabeer, worship the Lord Allah; meditating in remembrance on Him, troubles and pains depart.
The Lord shall be revealed within your own heart, and the burning fire within shall be extinguished by His Name.
Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal.
When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then?
Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.
Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread?
Kabeer, one is known to have been touched by the Guru, only when his emotional attachment and physical illnesses are eradicated.
He is not burned by pleasure or pain, and so he becomes the Lord Himself.
Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.
Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.
One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself.
Kabeer, those houses in which neither the Holy nor the Lord are served â€"
those houses are like cremation grounds; demons dwell within them.
Kabeer, I have become mute, insane and deaf.
I am crippled - the True Guru has pierced me with His Arrow.
Kabeer, the True Guru, the Spiritual Warrior, has shot me with His Arrow.
As soon as it struck me, I fell to the ground, with a hole in my heart.
Kabeer, the pure drop of water falls from the sky, onto the dirty ground.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji



At one level this is a mistranslation and at another misrepresentation of the context within which this is written:


kabeer khoob khaanaa kheechree jaa meh amrit lon.
Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.
hayraa rotee kaarnay galaa kataavai ka-un.
Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread?
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

In the above Gurmukhi, there is no mention of meat in the context of dining habits whatsoever. hayraa rotee kaarnay galaa kataavai ka-un, means literally, who would cut their own throat to eat food, in this context. The person who has tried to translate this has added his/her own spin .What this is actually saying is that to the follower of the Guru or one who has been touched by God a simple dish of Kheechree (lentils and rice), flavoured with salt is enough. To have something more exotic to eat you would not cut your own throat (the western equivalent would be to cut your own nose off to spite your face). In no way is this tukh anything to do with meat eating but to do with tyrrany. If one looks at this shabad in the context of which it was written, i.e. the invasion of Timur the shabads true meaning becomes apparent.

Kabir ji was a remarkable man and his shabads are probably the least understood in Bani, although most quoted.

If you look at the History of when he grew up, he witnessed like Guru Nanak (invasion by Babur) a Muslim invasion by Timur, and incredible death and destruction.

Memoirs of an Islamist - Timur

125,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiru-d din ‘Umar, a counsellor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives.
Massacres in Varnasi were on a Massive scale. He witnesses so called religious holymen/Mullahs and Shaykhs killing people in the name of God. When Kabir ji is saying this:

Kabeer: O Mullah, why do you climb to the top of the minaret? The Lord is not hard of hearing.
Look within your own heart for the One, for whose sake you shout your prayers.
Why does the Shaykh bother to go on pilgrimage to Mecca, if he is not content with himself?
Kabeer, one whose heart is not healthy and whole - how can he attain his Lord?
Kabeer, worship the Lord Allah; meditating in remembrance on Him, troubles and pains depart.
The Lord shall be revealed within your own heart, and the burning fire within shall be extinguished by His Name.
Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal.
When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then?
Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.
Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread?


at the back of his mind is this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/742629/posts


Massacre of 125,000 Hindus At this Court Amir Jahan Shah and Amir Sulaiman Shah, and other amirs of experience, brought to my notice that, from the time of entering Hindustan up to the present time, we had taken more than 125,000 infidels and Hindus prisoners, and that they were all in my camp. On the previous day, when the enemy’s forces made the attack upon us, the prisoners made signs of rejoicing, uttered imprecations against us, and were ready, as soon as they heard of the enemy’s success, to form themselves into a body, break their bonds, plunder our tents, and then to go and join the enemy, and so increase his [p. 53] numbers and strength. I asked their advice about the prisoners, and they said that on the great day of battle these 125,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty. In fact, no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword. When I heard these words I found them in accord with the rules of war, and I directly gave my command for the Tawachis to proclaim throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners was to put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 125,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiru-d din ‘Umar, a counsellor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives.
You can imagine this young devout Muslim, witnessing, so called fellow Muslims massacring his innocent Hindu neighbours. Probably people he knew. This must have had a profound effect on him.

Here:

Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.
One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself.


Here Kabir ji is clearly saying, look Oh Mullah we are all the same, whether we are Hindu or Muslim.

This shabad is in no way about dining habits.
 
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kds1980

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Kds ji,
It's a good question.

Well Sikhs hunted to train for combat and war. Men were trained for war and self sacrifice, to protect civilians and society. Protection prevents suffering and promotes well being. Since an incoming threat on well-being was perceived by Guru Sahib, he began the training. There the animal suffering is dwarfed by a larger potential human suffering if we do not prepare. There our environment and situation first calls for human suffering to be prevented.

There exist stories of Guru Sahibs liberating animals on their hunts. These stories arose precisely to bridge the gap between the new hunting practices and traditional Sikh attitude against killing of animals (and against killing of humans as well).

May be hunting is for martial training , but then what about practice of Chatka?

Here is something from amarnamah

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is clear from what transpired on September 03, 1708, the day of the solar eclipse, that, eventually Banda's objection to submitting to the Guru was on the single point of vegetarianism. The Guru decided to wait no longer. The master psychologist that he was, he forced the issue in such a manner that Banda would have to make the final choice in the matter of accepting him as the Guru. Anticipating what was to come he did not distribute any cattle to the Lombadas on that day.

The Guru ordered his Sikhs to get ready to visit Banda's place. On reaching there they found him absent. The Guru gave instruction to slaughter Banda's goats, which was immediately complied with. The jungle-folk knew from experience that the meat was meant for them, and came immediately to wait upon the Guru in anticipation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Driops

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WjkK Wjkf,
Just want to share my expieriences
One day I was in a Cornfield , I just sat there and meditate on the formless one Akal Purakh - I was really in Bliss - I just felt - I cannot describe with words. Maybe I was in unison with God? I dont know and I cant tell you. So I started looking around myself - sitting in media of the Cornfield - and I saw how the Corn was twirled by the wind. I was fascinated - I felt the whole Cornfield each and every corn - I saw live in it - First time I realised it that the corn has live as well - I felt everything around me every sense the earth the grass everything. From this time I realised I am a hypocrite - I am blind. I was just focused on beings that I see with my eyes and hear with my ears... And that was wrong - I realised that the SAME life is in everything - and that made me feel and think... It is the same living I eat for my "food" , the same essence , but it isn´t apparent like the animals... I can´t see it with my "eyes". I felt my self such an hypocrite thinking that I am better than others - eating vegetarian food - but I realised this falsehood... Where does I differ from animals or other (Human) Beinges, what makes me better? Nothing, it is just the understanding/feeling/embracement( I don´t have any word for this ) of the One immaculate formless Creator - I have the One chance - to realise him. This is very deep.
After that I rememberd the Shabad by Guru ji :

ਮਃ ੧ ॥
ਵੇਖੁ ਜਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਟਿਆ ਕਟਿ ਕੁਟਿ ਬਧਾ ਪਾਇ ॥
ਖੁੰਢਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਦੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਮਲ ਸਜਾਇ ॥
ਰਸੁ ਕਸੁ ਟਟਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਪੈ ਤੈ ਵਿਲਲਾਇ ॥
ਭੀ ਸੋ ਫੋਗੁ ਸਮਾਲੀਐ ਦਿਚੈ ਅਗਿ ਜਾਲਾਇ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਠੈ ਪਤਰੀਐ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਕਾ ਆਇ ॥੨॥
First Mehl:
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated!

Page 143 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


And I understood more and more....
Again: I don´t want to change anyone ones dieties or attitue or something else - I just want to share was I experienced.
May Waheguru bless you all.

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh!
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Ahimsa is the true way.



YES..A-HIMSA..not only against all LIFE (including Plant and bacterial/viral etc ) BUT more importantly against Praya Haak, others properties, lands, wives, husbands, intellectual properties (piracy/copying of music films etc ) etc etc etc....AHIMSA AHIMSA and AHIMSA.PERIOD. Then all will be PEACE...A-Him(her)-SA !!
 

Randip Singh

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May 25, 2005
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WjkK Wjkf,
Just want to share my expieriences
One day I was in a Cornfield , I just sat there and meditate on the formless one Akal Purakh - I was really in Bliss - I just felt - I cannot describe with words. Maybe I was in unison with God? I dont know and I cant tell you. So I started looking around myself - sitting in media of the Cornfield - and I saw how the Corn was twirled by the wind. I was fascinated - I felt the whole Cornfield each and every corn - I saw live in it - First time I realised it that the corn has live as well - I felt everything around me every sense the earth the grass everything. From this time I realised I am a hypocrite - I am blind. I was just focused on beings that I see with my eyes and hear with my ears... And that was wrong - I realised that the SAME life is in everything - and that made me feel and think... It is the same living I eat for my "food" , the same essence , but it isn´t apparent like the animals... I can´t see it with my "eyes". I felt my self such an hypocrite thinking that I am better than others - eating vegetarian food - but I realised this falsehood... Where does I differ from animals or other (Human) Beinges, what makes me better? Nothing, it is just the understanding/feeling/embracement( I don´t have any word for this ) of the One immaculate formless Creator - I have the One chance - to realise him. This is very deep.
After that I rememberd the Shabad by Guru ji :

ਮਃ ੧ ॥
ਵੇਖੁ ਜਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਟਿਆ ਕਟਿ ਕੁਟਿ ਬਧਾ ਪਾਇ ॥
ਖੁੰਢਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਦੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਮਲ ਸਜਾਇ ॥
ਰਸੁ ਕਸੁ ਟਟਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਪੈ ਤੈ ਵਿਲਲਾਇ ॥
ਭੀ ਸੋ ਫੋਗੁ ਸਮਾਲੀਐ ਦਿਚੈ ਅਗਿ ਜਾਲਾਇ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਠੈ ਪਤਰੀਐ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਕਾ ਆਇ ॥੨॥
First Mehl:
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated!

Page 143 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


And I understood more and more....
Again: I don´t want to change anyone ones dieties or attitue or something else - I just want to share was I experienced.
May Waheguru bless you all.

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh!

I've had similar experiences when walking in the hills in Wales. Bani has an interesting attitude to life:

On page 176 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the following is written:

ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.

ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.
ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.
ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.
ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o.
mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa. chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. rahaa-o.
ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa.
saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.
kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.
ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.
jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan.
avar na doojaa karnai jog.
taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.
kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay.

Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. Pause
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.
No one else can do anything at all.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji




Reading this Shabad one can clearly see that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not attach any particular order to how life is incarnated. Infact it states:


ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji


If you were to apply the logic of those that claim spiritually animal life is closer to human, then according to this a rock then becomes an aborted human foetus, then becomes a plant! It is only after this one becomes human. Surely then a plant is a closer form of life to human?

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji only proclaims one life form as being so precious. On page 50 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji it states:

sireeraag mehlaa 5 ghar 2.
go-il aa-i-aa go-ilee ki-aa tis damf pasaar.
muhlat punnee chalnaa tooN sampal ghar baar.
har gun gaa-o manaa satgur sayv pi-aar.
ki-aa thorh-rhee baat gumaan. rahaa-o.
jaisay rain paraahunay uth chalsahi parbhaat.
ki-aa tooN rataa girsat si-o sabh fulaa kee baagaat.
mayree mayree ki-aa karahi jin dee-aa so parabh lorh.
sarpar uthee chalnaa chhad jaasee lakh karorh.
lakh cha-oraaseeh bharmati-aa dulabh janam paa-i-o-ay.
naanak naam samaal tooN so din nayrhaa aa-i-o-ay.

Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl, Second House:
The herdsman comes to the pasture lands-what good are his ostentatious displays here?
When your allotted time is up, you must go. Take care of your real hearth and home.
O mind, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and serve the True Guru with love.
Why do you take pride in trivial matters? Pause
Like an overnight guest, you shall arise and depart in the morning.
Why are you so attached to your household? It is all like flowers in the garden.
Why do you say, "Mine, mine?" Look to God, who has given it to you.
It is certain that you must arise and depart, and leave behind your hundreds of thousands and millions.
Through 8.4 million incarnations you have wandered, to obtain this rare and precious human life.
O Nanak, remember the Naam, the Name of the Lord; the day of departure is drawing near!
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji
 

Driops

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Jan 6, 2012
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Thanks for the answer. Yes, we had similiar experience and thats nice! I have just a small side question: Would you eat Halal? I mean food that is already slaughtered Halal? And what about if you eat it accedentaly? I mean the animal is already dead , and suffered pain , should we waste that meat? The prayers are useless on animal we all know. And what is if there is only Halal meat availabe , example: you live in an muslim country? Would you quit?


This question goes to all not only you Randip ji.
 

Kanwaljit.Singh

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Personally, I quit meat when I was in Hyderabad which has mostly halal meat. Once my mama mami came and bought mutton biryani in my office cafe. I was ordering some dosa on other counter, and I realized it late that I should have told them what kind of meat it could be. I hope they knew it :D

After that I went back to Delhi, didn't feel like eating meat again. For me, I try to avoid double lifestyles. So I felt ok with the no meat one. Soon it became a habit, which I could maintain even in Canada. Thankfully the west has many more veggie options. Sometimes I miss specific meat dishes. And it is only coz they are well prepared (yes chefs pay more attention to them, haha!) and don't have a veg counterpart.

E.g. palak paneer led to palak chicken but there is no veggie twist to meatball sub! Anyway to each his own. How your life turns out depends on the things life throws at you. Maybe if I didn't go to Hyderabad I would have continued to be a meat eater.
 

Kanwaljit.Singh

Writer
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Jan 29, 2011
1,500
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And that was wrong - I realised that the SAME life is in everything - and that made me feel and think... It is the same living I eat for my "food" , the same essence , but it isn´t apparent like the animals... I can´t see it with my "eyes".

Hmm the only naturally offered food by plants are fruits perhaps. They want us to eat their mangos, oranges, apples. And throw away the seeds far and wide. So that they can sprout out new trees. It's like a symbiotic relationship
:)
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Jul 4, 2004
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Thanks for the answer. Yes, we had similiar experience and thats nice! I have just a small side question: Would you eat Halal? I mean food that is already slaughtered Halal? And what about if you eat it accedentaly? I mean the animal is already dead , and suffered pain , should we waste that meat? The prayers are useless on animal we all know. And what is if there is only Halal meat availabe , example: you live in an muslim country? Would you quit?


This question goes to all not only you Randip ji.

HALAL IS BANNED FOR SIKHS. PERIOD.
Are you suggesting that its a LIfe and Death situation ?? That a Sikh must consume halal or DIE ?
Meat is NOT MANDATORY you know...thats the Bottom line..Guru Ji leaves it to us to decide..."WHATEVER...again in BOLD - WHATEVER that is bad for YOUR body, that causes DISCOMFORT..causes bad feelings, bad vibes, bad thoughts...etc etc etc etc...DO NOT CONSUME. Now I find this advise the most consistent, most scientific and most acceptable than any other "diet laws" of any religion. Islam tells you to eat beef from a halal cow...BUT fails to mention BRAIN COW DISEASE....who is responsible for a man getting sick form Brain cow disease after consuming beef form a halal brain-cow infected cow ?? A SIKH is already advised to REFRAIN/AVOID such which causes discomfort allegies etc....hence even a JHATKA cow/sheep/goat/pig/chicken whatever.. is NOT MANDATORY. Mostly a Jhatka was originally recommended and is true even Today is because a JHATKA is personally performed..or in the family house/village..or at least in your presence whereby you can have a look at the animals health etc. IF you CANNOT be sure..then DONT EAT.

2. Milk intolerance..again Gurbani advise is BEST. IF MILK gives you trouble..DONT DRINK MILK. Nothing to do with jhatka or halal...IF WHEAT GLUTTEN causes your stomach to be upset..DONT EAT BREAD..nothing jhatka or halal anywhere !!! IF apple cider vinegar gives you ULCERS..dont use apple cider vinegar..so simple and straightforward....GURBANI IS BEST0:) !!
 

Luckysingh

Writer
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Dec 4, 2011
1,634
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Thanks for the answer. Yes, we had similiar experience and thats nice! I have just a small side question: Would you eat Halal? I mean food that is already slaughtered Halal? And what about if you eat it accedentaly? I mean the animal is already dead , and suffered pain , should we waste that meat? The prayers are useless on animal we all know. And what is if there is only Halal meat availabe , example: you live in an muslim country? Would you quit?


This question goes to all not only you Randip ji.

If only halal was available, then I would NOT consume it- SIMPLE.
Halal is NOT for us sikhs to consume and that is instructed to us in the rehat!!
So, if no other option available then I would give up all together in such a place.
In all honesty, I don't know what reason I would have to be in a muslim dominated country where there was no non-halal available in the first place!!
If circumstances were unpreventable that I was unfortunate to be stuck in such a place, then like my muslim brothers do in other country's,- I would insist and find a way to get certain rules overturned so that non-halal was made available for people like me!!!-SIMPLE!!!!
 

Randip Singh

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May 25, 2005
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Thanks for the answer. Yes, we had similiar experience and thats nice! I have just a small side question: Would you eat Halal? I mean food that is already slaughtered Halal? And what about if you eat it accedentaly? I mean the animal is already dead , and suffered pain , should we waste that meat? The prayers are useless on animal we all know. And what is if there is only Halal meat availabe , example: you live in an muslim country? Would you quit?


This question goes to all not only you Randip ji.

I can happily live on any diet, but when I'm training I need a balanced diet. Protein from nuts doesn't cut the mustard despite what Vegans and lacto-Vege's say.

I would't eat Halal because the Sikh Rehat Marayada prohibits it for an Amritdhari Sikh:

In the Rehit Marayada (http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_six.html), Section Six, it states:
The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided
1. Dishonouring the hair;
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way(Kutha);
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse
4. Using tobacco.
Sikh Rehit Maryada


I suppose killing the animal yourself would have to be an option. Also fish and eggs are not halal so those could be consumed.

I would ask the question how can Vegetarians in India justify drinking milk baring in mind the cruelty involved in that?

Also what about the insects that are killed so that people can eat their wheat and rice?
 
Last edited:

itsmaneet

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Jun 13, 2012
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Nagpur, India
I can happily live on any diet, but when I'm train I need a balance. I would't eat Halal because the Sikh Rehat Marayada prohibits it for an Amritdhari Sikh:

In the Rehit Marayada (http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_six.html), Section Six, it states:
The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided
1. Dishonouring the hair;
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way(Kutha);
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse
4. Using tobacco.
Sikh Rehit Maryada


I suppose killing the animal yourself would have to be an option. Also fish and eggs are not hala.

I would ask the question how can Vegetarians in India justify drinking milk baring in mind the cruelty involved in that?

Also what about the insects that are killed so that people can eat their wheat and rice?
Dear Randip Ji- I din't get the reason for deleting my views....kindly explain. Also from your views above, plz be clear with 'do you support eating flesh/meat or not?'
 
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