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A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair And Turban

drkhalsa

SPNer
Sep 16, 2004
1,308
54
Perhaps, I should hold my tongue until after I have become a Sikh. I do not mean to offend anyone. I was a soldier in Vietnam and I studied martial arts for nearly forty years, but as I learn more each day about the wealth of knowledge contained in the Sikh literature, I am nearly brought to tears by God's love.

Dear Friend ,
Dont hold anything back , its the right place to say everything

I am very glad to know about your martial Art skills . I hope you already know this but so say again Martial Art has got a very special place in the Sikh religion so you got already something on hand to teach other Sikhs

take care

Jatinder Singh

P.S Just one personal question if you dont mind ( you can relpy in Personal Message) in which town do you live in , my curosity is related to Sikh docs you mentioned


t
 
Dec 2, 2007
14
0
listen i am 14 i wear my pag with pride and so do most of the scottsih youth because because of khalsa camps the youth are taught about and sikhi and half come back next year with dastar the problem is that there are not enough of these sikhi camps in punjab however theere are now more and more sikhs keeping their hair in jalandhar district anyway we should ban khanda necklaces and sikhi t-shirts bcos the waerers of these shirts are all monay the new genration is now fast becoming khalsa sikhs so start more khalsa camps and we shall reap the rewards
 

Sherab

SPNer
Mar 26, 2007
441
20
USA
listen i am 14 i wear my pag with pride and so do most of the scottsih youth because because of khalsa camps the youth are taught about and sikhi and half come back next year with dastar the problem is that there are not enough of these sikhi camps in punjab however theere are now more and more sikhs keeping their hair in jalandhar district anyway we should ban khanda necklaces and sikhi t-shirts bcos the waerers of these shirts are all monay the new genration is now fast becoming khalsa sikhs so start more khalsa camps and we shall reap the rewards
i agree
 

Mai Harinder Kaur

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Oct 5, 2006
1,755
2,735
71
British Columbia, Canada
listen i am 14 i wear my pag with pride and so do most of the scottsih youth because because of khalsa camps the youth are taught about and sikhi and half come back next year with dastar the problem is that there are not enough of these sikhi camps in punjab however theere are now more and more sikhs keeping their hair in jalandhar district anyway we should ban khanda necklaces and sikhi t-shirts bcos the waerers of these shirts are all monay the new genration is now fast becoming khalsa sikhs so start more khalsa camps and we shall reap the rewards

You cheer me up!:thumbup:

Please write lots of posts like this!
 
Apr 4, 2007
934
29
listen i am 14 i wear my pag with pride and so do most of the scottsih youth because because of khalsa camps the youth are taught about and sikhi and half come back next year with dastar the problem is that there are not enough of these sikhi camps in punjab however theere are now more and more sikhs keeping their hair in jalandhar district anyway we should ban khanda necklaces and sikhi t-shirts bcos the waerers of these shirts are all monay the new genration is now fast becoming khalsa sikhs so start more khalsa camps and we shall reap the rewards


this is great to hear. :) i hear similar things from young sikhs in parts of the US and in Canada. sikhi camps really seem to be a driving force among todays youth.

i know that there are camps india, but they are very costly so only the wealthy kids can go... and a lot of people go to the indian camps from the US, so obviously they're not aimed at the average indian citizen. i agree with you, organizing more affordable and accesible camps for young sikhs in india would be a great way to promote sikhi.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1
0
In the past few months, I have been in discussions with many Sikh Youth, both who have and have-not cut their hair. Here are some of their arguments on this topic which I have tried to argue, sometimes winning & sometimes losing :

1) I am a follower of the preaching’s of my Gurus which they, by the will of the true lord, left by means of Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Granth Sahib does not tell me to cut or not to cut my hair. It is silent. It does not say whether one should be a vegetarian or eat non vegetarian. It is silent. Its Silence probably means that it wanted to leave these decisions to its Sikhs? To each and every Sikh's own free will.

2) It is a common known fact that the institution of growing one's hair was instituted at the founding ceremony of the Khalsa panth at Anandpur Sahib by Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the year 1699. Before that day - since almost 2 centuries before (from the founding of the Sikh religion) to that day, there was no requirement for the Sikhs to grow their hair. The first 9 Gurus did not ask for it. So if I were to say that I believe in the teachings of the first 9 Gurus and Guru Granth Sahib, and for the moment do not practice the preachings of the Tenth Guru only relating to keeping Kesh - for I still need to study, understand and find whats true for myself – does that entitle me to be a legitimate Sikh who can cut his hair? Were the Sikhs from late 15 Century to 1699 any less Sikhs just because the institution of growing one’s hair was not mandated by the then Gurus?

3) Consider this hypothetical situation: If you have three people in front of you –

  • Converter: who was born into a Sikh family and for some strange reason has decided to convert to some other religion out of own free will. Now he is converted and has cut his hair as the new religion in which he converted to does not require him to grow his hair
  • Cutter: who is born into a Sikh family and cut his hair and intends to continue leading his life in the same way as a Sikh.
  • Balwant:, who is a Sikh, has not cut his hair or beard and does not intend to do it in future either.
All these 3 people have done the same amount of good deeds and bad deeds in their life and therefore rank equal in the way they conduct themselves with the external world.
Now rank these people in terms of who is better and who is worse? Try and reason out why you rank them in the way you do. Hereunder are some of the answers of people who were a part of this discussion:

On a scale of good to worse:

Comment 1:
Balwant – Good
Cutter – Bad
Converter – Worse

Balwant is a true Sikh, he leads his life the way Guru’s described. For a person who leaves his religion even out of his own free will is a coward, a disgrace and therefore deserves to be termed the Worst of the lot. Therefore, Converter is Worse of all. Cutter is bad because he did cut his hair and that is not allowed in our religion.

Comment 2:

Cutter: Good
Balwant: Bad
Converter: Worse

Cutter is good because he has the will to choose whether he wishes to grow his hair or not and has chosen to not keep his hair. To choose what you believe in and stand by it - that takes courage. I admire courage in people to stand up for what they want. That is what the message of our religion is – is to stand up for what you believe in. Cutter believed in something and had the courage to get it. Also, I mean lets be real, Cutter only cut his hair, he still goes to the Gurudwara every now and then, he was born into a Sikh family, he listens to path sometimes, do we really feel he is bad? I mean he is one of us, he does what we do, and we are full of such people these days. He could have been a lot worse, but he is not except for cutting his hair. Let’s admit it, it’s the end of 2007, it is normal to have such cutters in each Sikh family. I mean technically, its still not the best way to go, but the reality is we have come to accept such people as still Sikhs and very much part of our families. Converter is definitely the worst. I mean I respect that he is entitled to his own free will but by doing what he did, he showed the Sikh religion down over the other religion that he embraced. He indirectly gave the message that Sikhism as a religion was not worth it and the other religion he embraced was better. Now, it is a known fact that the central message of all the religions is the same – One God, hurt no one, stand up for your rights and all. So he left one religion for another – that too when both end up teaching the same thing, that definitely is an insult to the first religion as it implies it’s teachings are not worth enough for achieving the end goal and that the other religion teaches better. Now if Converter had not believed in religion at all, and would have denounced his religion and not embraced any new religion, I would have still respected him, for he was doing something that he believed in and was not hurting (in a criminal way) anyone else in the process. But he didn’t do that. Man, I would like to meet this Converter and give him a bit of what I feel for him. Balwant is bad because for one, positions of good and worse are already taken and two that he is a normal guy, an average, he was born in a way, he was made to believe that Sikhism was good, was engraved in him in his childhood and he ended up believing in it. Good for him. I mean nothing wrong with that. Perfectly fine, that’s the way 90% of this world lives. Its just Ordinary. And to me, the ordinary, though not wrong, is just less appealing than the Courageous.

Comment 3:

Converter: Good
Cutter: Bad
Balwant: Worse

Yeah, before you all start beating me up – listen me out. Look at this Converter guy. Leave him alone. He wanted to do something he did it. Its none of our business. Second, what is the way of embracing a religion: By believing in its teachings, by practicing them, by being true to the religion and its teachers? What is the point of forcing him into something that he is not comfortable with. If he can reach God through some other channel, what’s the problem? We should be happy for him that atleast he took out time to think on how he should reach God, he contemplated the means and found it! How many of the other ‘Sikhs’ do it these days? Just because the means is not the same as your or my means does not mean that the mean is not there or the other mean is wrong. Religion is a means to God and one should take whatever mean to reach God. If that is Sikhism, good, if that is some other religion, Good. Third, what’s the point of retaining somebody in something against his will. By forcing somebody into something against one’s will, many ills have been conceived in our society. What would you say about a husband forcing his wife in bed against her wishes? You’d say that’s a crime – married or unmarried. Marriage does not give the husband the right to force his way through. You know what – just because he was born into a religion, does not give us the right to enforce the religion on him. Would you rather have him as a ‘Sikh’ with hair not believing in it day in or day out, or would you try to do your best to make him understand his religion. And still if you don’t succeed in convincing him, is it not your responsibility to back out and tell him – ok, do it the way you feel like doing. You are your own boss, not me. You talk of Courage as one of your criteria’s for being a Sikh. Well this man had the Courage to denounce a religion and embrace a new religion - out of his own free will – and face the wrath of you and me. He definitely scores top marks on courage. You talk of him insulting the religion. If all religions teach the same and you – yourself are convinced of the solidarity of your religion – are you insecure to construe this act of his as a showing down of your religion? Do you think he or his act is even capable to show our religion down? Another point of view for you: my friend. If the act of leaving something you are born in makes you a disgrace, then what about you, you were born in India. You left your country, and shifted base to US. For what - some money, a better life-style, an opportunity to date a few firangis downtown? You converted your identity you were born into – into a different one. Does that make you any less-offender than Converter? Should India put you in jail for that? You might say Oh – you cant even compare this with religion. Oh yeah, tell me how can we compare the two? Let me explain it another way – You left your mother, your retired father back home. You’re the only son. Does your religion not teach you to take care of your family. Does your Dharma not haunt you day in or day out. If you can live with that and sleep peacefully every night, you are certainly not doing a good job following your Guru’s teachings. So tell me now, is Converter any better or are you any worse? As for Cutter and Balwant, I really don’t care. I just put them there to get your attention and to hot up a bit of emotions. They are all equal to me. I just wanted to make a point. Point being that any ‘dutiful’ Sikh - including me a couple of years back – would have ranked Converter in the Worse position. But did our Gurus really wanted to empower us for being able to pass negative judgments on people Did they fight that battle to make us a tiny bit Orthodox? Or were they fighting the Orthodoxy? Do you really think you have the capacity to Judge? The right to Judge? When God did not judge while creating its people, how can you Judge their actions?
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
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" A sikh without his flowing hair is a Sehajdhari."

To what extent would this statement hold as truth ?
 
May 30, 2007
81
8
Sat Siri Akal
Hairs n turban only add to external appearance n one who thinks he/she is complete with all this alone is in utter mistake or illusion.Guru gave men appearance of a Lion n a women a lioness(both were made warriors for life) n so kesh covered with dastaar is important n dastaar must be covered with sharp rings so that no one(enemy or sikhs envy struck men) should not reach a sikh's crown.This dress is of a Lion a warrior but noone become a warrior alone by wearing dress of a lion.It will be then like a donkey wearing a Lion's skin declaring himself as Lion.To become a Lion warrior is the most hardest part that most sikhs r missing now-a-days.A sikh becomes a Lion warriors if he listens to mighty Lion's army king-Guru Gobind Singh-THE MIGHTIEST OF ALL.(Noone is most stronger than Nirankar's Lion) n SGGS Ji Maharaj n follows Guru thru Shaastar practice many hrs,running many miles,marching everyday many miles,play power games like Kushti(Wrestling),others,cutting down ur sleep n relaxation.Most Sikhs r missing the difficult part.Nothing is easy on Guru Gobind Singh Ji's path.Without doing extreme workout n exercise n weapons training everyday many many hrs noone turns a Lion.
Anyone who is born in sikh family becomes a sikh of guru Gobind Singh only when he work hard n fight back his/her mind to become:

1. A SIKH - Always learning throughout the life n keep on following it even he/she is going opposite to the world's way.


2. A WARRIOR N LION - A name Lion is added to every sikh 's name just to remind them that thay have to practice weapons,wear weapons,exercise many hrs a day daily,always remain a ready-to-attack evil army n perish them without fear n full strength,March everyday instead of walking(lazy men walk while Lions March), everything else that transforms a Sikh-family-born men n women into Lions n Lionesses.


3. A KHALSA - To become true roaring Warrior n saint one's mind must listen ONLY N ONLY Mighty Guru's words n must always tune to Guru's feet.Materialistic attraction can easily turn one away from Guru n so one must fight back every moment everyday with his mind to turn himself/herself away from materialistic-lure n listen to mighty Guru n prepare as Lion so Khalsa part is most important of all.

A person who obeys all these three rules of Mighty Guru Gobind Singh(The Mighty King of Kings of Mighty Lions N Lionesses Army) alone is a true warrior Sikh-A Sikh-Khalsa-Lion Of Guru.Others r only donkeys who have put On Lion's Skin over their body.Nothing is achieved by talking n writing big easys on internet n watching millions of videos on youtube,sikhitube,etc.
All is achieved by doing,by perfoming ,by fulfilling Guru's words.That's the hardest part.Move ur body to limits n mind to limits to achieve what Guru wants his sikh to achieve.Without hard part nothing can be achieved.Guru has given u all the power n strength n so open it n use it n grow it.Push ,Push,Push urself to the Limits O mighty Lions of Guru Gobind Singh.

People who r weak alone loses their hairs,dastaar n Guru's mighty words never penetrate their mind.They r like foolish who never workout,never push their body to exercise n push it to limits n prepare to become mighty Lion-Warrior Of Guru Gobind Singh.Such people become easy prey to outside world.Girls of sikhs become easy prey to outsiders becoz they never work-out to become Guru's Lionesses n his army warriors n love mirror more than Guru's Mighty path.We feel pity on such easy prey cowards.

Read Guru Gobind Singh Said:

"Khatri ko put hon Bahaman ko nahi"-Guru Gobind Singh Ji-The mighty King of Lion's Army.

I accept only khatri (a warrior who prepares everyday thru exercises n weapon's practice) n fight for weak n protection of saints is alone my beloved.Those who fail to wear weapons,practice weapons everyday many hrs like in real war-field,never exercise,etc r not my sikhs.They r bahamins who turned back to Guru when called to joined Guru's army.
A soldier's external form n inner might BOTH make one a true saint-warrior n missing one render him/her a disobeyer of Guru Gobind Singh.
Hope all sikhs world around have understood what i mean.Guru is with u all n so prepare to be Lions-warriors.Also I will be delighted to correct me for my wrong n will be glad if more knowledge of Guru is added to my side.Bole Sonehal Sat Siri Akal.:)
 

amarjitmadan

SPNer
Dec 8, 2007
2
0
I would like to say that the lessons have to start at home without any lectures but by example. Darbar sahib da Parkash with a few minutes of paath. Going to Gurdawara on a regular basis and doing sewa and from time to time telling children about history of the religion,helping the needy irrespective and Daswand.Often the excuse is lack of time in the morning, all it means is to get up twenty minutes earlier by signing off 20minutes earlier at night.It is not a lost cause we are talking about.
 
May 30, 2007
81
8
I would like to say that the lessons have to start at home without any lectures but by example. Darbar sahib da Parkash with a few minutes of paath. Going to Gurdawara on a regular basis and doing sewa and from time to time telling children about history of the religion,helping the needy irrespective and Daswand.Often the excuse is lack of time in the morning, all it means is to get up twenty minutes earlier by signing off 20minutes earlier at night.It is not a lost cause we are talking about.

Guru says Aath(Eight) Pahar Aradiah Puran Satgur Gyan.

So sleep should be too less.But it is too difficult to do this without ' Man Jitay Jag Jeeta' determination n lot lot of Exercise.
If one doesn't exercise a lot for many hrs a day he/she will sleep more n will go into deep sleep becoz without our body organs n hundreds of Enzymes not reaching their Peak performance level (possible only with exercise) our body turns night cycle more longer.This is not right for healthy body for longer period n one face lots of problems as one age.Bad results of excessive sleep n longer night cycle appears only after many years n we blame aging for this but this is not true.Sleep should be short n within very short time night cycle should be over n one should become fresh like in the morning(only for late waking -up people.Ha ha....) n So Guru Ji made us soldiers n gave us wonderful exercises like Gatka,Horse riding ,running,marching long distances n many others(That we lost already).But we can add modern day exercises to Guru's Exercises like Gym,Wrestling,Kabbaddi,others n keep ourself busy exercising for many hours during day till we go to sleep.exercise can range from light to heavy.Even walking is also an exercise but too light.Marching like soldier is light category exercise while running is medium weight exercise.Gym, wrestling,Kabbadi n weight lifting come under the category of heavy-weight exercises.One must include all ranges of exercises in whole day.
We can remember Guru ji even while exercising.Right!:{;o:

Old sikhs sang praises of Guru ji even while fighting with Mugal forces so why can't we.:cool:

Our day should go doing our work n exercising while after 12:00 at night our body becomes too dull for any exercise even walking exercise.So till u sleep keep doing some exercise including marching,walking n others.Go to sleep n wake up very early.It will be too easy then provided u did lot of exercise during daylight n sincerely.For beginner alarm clock will be required n will find difficult to rise that early.Body doesn't allow any change in itself easily.It takes few days to adjust to new lifestyle.

Now time for full-time naam simran begins after waking up.

Early time is all calm n atmosphere is perfect to join surat with Kartar.Do paath,sing n listen kirtan till morning sun shower its light on surroundings.
"Satgur ka jo sikhs akaveh palkey ud har naam diavey"

After sunrise time of remembering Guru is only in Gatka fields,exercising centres n while exercising,while working,walking n others.

Guru Ji made nothing easy btw.But tough sikhs were successful n so can u too.Just follow the formula" Man jita Jag Jeet" of Tan Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji N fight back laziness n body's resistance to accept change.

Life is not easy friends but those who follow tough lifestyle of Guru ji really enjoy it while other perish in Kam,Krodh,Lob,Moh N Ahankar.their minds r sucked by sexual desires,greed n all stupid things of the world around.

All evils r wiped immediately on listening Gurubani with powerful mind.Power of Guru Shabad n Guru's tough lifestyle & Discipline is great n beyond words.

If sikhs accept hardship of Naam Simran very early in the morning n then involving oneself in exercises for many hrs during long day time n accept tough lifestyle n discipline given by Guru Gobind Singh then mind will be in perfect state all time.Such mind can never do stupid acts of giving away hairs n turban n Guru's mighty words always keep nourishing their mind which we made strong by less sleep,Naam Simran,Paath,Kirtan n tremendrous amount of exercises during whole day.

Simple in saying though but Guru's path is too difficult.Right! :advocate: :D

jeh toh prem kelan ka chahoh sir dar tali gali moori avoo:advocate:

Clearly Guru's marg is to lead such tough life where mind must be nourished by lot of nutrients thru exercises n Guru Shabad.
That's why guru created Khalsa only when both saint n soldier form was to be infused in them on the ocassion of Baisakhi.

Saint means Sikh minds infused with Shabad power n Soldier means Sikh minds infused with tough lifestyle,strict discipline ,exercises n battles.
Hope many will agree thou i tried to include both scientific reasoning n Guru's guidance to make all understand better who we r n how should we live our daily life n make our generations learn sikhi better so they can never deviate from Guru's tough Marg.

Bol Chuk mafi.

Sat Siri Akal to all.
 

robby_85

SPNer
Nov 10, 2006
2
0
I'll tell u why they are cutting hair.....because thats what the girls want
Sikh girls of today prefer a clean shaven boy with no turban than a Sardar.
gurudwara's should teach these girls something about our religion.
 
Apr 4, 2007
934
29
I'll tell u why they are cutting hair.....because thats what the girls want
Sikh girls of today prefer a clean shaven boy with no turban than a Sardar.
gurudwara's should teach these girls something about our religion.


i'm sick to death of hearing this. i've asked many guys why they cut their hair and not a single one ever said they did it for girls. they did it for work, because they're afraid of harassment, because they want to look "cool" and fashionable, because they aren't religious and see no point in keeping it... i've heard as many different reasons as there are guys, but i've never heard of anyone doing it for girls.

btw, all the girls i know are looking for gursikhs. maybe you know the wrong girls. :hmm:
 

amarjitmadan

SPNer
Dec 8, 2007
2
0
I'll tell u why they are cutting hair.....because thats what the girls want
Sikh girls of today prefer a clean shaven boy with no turban than a Sardar.
gurudwara's should teach these girls something about our religion.
There is no short cut or easy way to achieve it.
Gurdawaras will come into picture when children have a habit of going with devotion and not just for social gathering.Values of life have to be taught by parents and shown by their own deeds when we leave India we leave behind all good points and adopt the negatives of Western culture.(not all most of us) that is the beginning.I am not sure where our community is headed to but still a very good one in most aspects of life.
 

Sherab

SPNer
Mar 26, 2007
441
20
USA
i'm sick to death of hearing this. i've asked many guys why they cut their hair and not a single one ever said they did it for girls. they did it for work, because they're afraid of harassment, because they want to look "cool" and fashionable, because they aren't religious and see no point in keeping it... i've heard as many different reasons as there are guys, but i've never heard of anyone doing it for girls.

btw, all the girls i know are looking for gursikhs. maybe you know the wrong girls. :hmm:
Can i meet some of those girls? :wink::shy:

Jasleen ji, i'm joking.

However on the topic, my girlfriend (who got me into sikhi) prefer me without a patka, but doesn't mind if i keep kesh. To be a tad public about this, i just wish i *could* find a girl who prefer turbanned/patka'd men. ::cool:2:

I think part of it is, Jasleen, is that guys are unwilling to work for anything to make something else work. or they ASSUME (as i do) no one likes men with patka or turban/ I think maybe, it is because of a few insulting remarks by those that do not like turbanned men, we assume, all are the same.

It is simply loss of hope, and peer pressure.

However, those are not valid excuses, butto those whow ere never gursikhs in the first place.. it could be enough to cripple their sikhi. :unsure:
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
43
INDIA
However on the topic, my girlfriend (who got me into sikhi) prefer me without a patka, but doesn't mind if i keep kesh. To be a tad public about this, i just wish i *could* find a girl who prefer turbanned/patka'd men.

How could a sikh man keep his kesh without wearing patka or turban? just ask her
 

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