Why Do Indian Vegetarians Have A Problem With Eggs But Not With Milk?

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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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1. An average HEN needs 24-26 HOURS to produce ONE EGG. 99% hens lay just 1 egg daily and SKIP some days (day off ha ha).

2. Cow slaughter Ban is the most stupid piece of law India has..its HINDU RADICAL POWER..not good governance/or secularism.... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/NA06Df05.html

3. A Calf has to be REMOVED OR IT WILL FINISH ALL THE MILK. Just as a woman has just enough to breast feed her child...a COW has just enough to FEED her Baby. NO WAY can someone like Kamala JI claim she NEVER removed the Calf and yet had enough milk..may be a FEW DROPS..ok..BUT def Not enough to fill a BOWL.

4 Its a Known FACT that INDIA has the Worlds largest population of ABANDONED COWS that roam the streets and villages foraging and scavenging for food. What a way to treat your Gaoo mata Ji....BIGGEST FRAUD on EARTH. These cows SUFFER painful hunger/cold/accidents with vehicles/injuries/beatings from frustrated farmers/street hawkers/vendors etc etc... As GURU NANAK ji observed 550 years ago..Brahman Gaoo Ko Kar laveh..GOBAR taran na Jaii..the Brahmin TAXES the COW but thinks the BULL.**** Can save him and his soul !!! (GOBAR is cow Bull.****) Even Today Indians use cow urine and shi.t to Clean/purify/as HOLY !!

Just a month ago a neighbour who is a hindu bought a new house..in the morning the brahmins brought a cow..who was paraded around the house...made to climb up narrow flights of stairs and PRODDED with a stick UP (hers) in order to FORCE URINE OUT at random Places to PURIFY the House...even my youngest son who is just 3 asked me..daddy why they are hurting the cow to make her urinate ??..uggh isnt that GROSS ?? I said SHUT UP SON..it may hurt our neighbors religious sentiments..just keep quiet and observe..
 

Ishna

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I think I'm gonna be sick, then get really, really mad.

Any creature suffering like that at the hands of sheer idiocy is a crime.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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and heres another link for kamala Ji (USA NIWASEE) about the REALITY of COWS in HINDU INDIA.....Indians shamelessly MILK the cow for POLITICAL POWER....!!

http://satyameva-jayate.org/2012/02/08/cow-slaughter/

2. Secondly about the ONLY Humans in INDIA... who WILLINGLY SACRIFICED THEIR HUMAN LIVES FOR COWS..were SIKHS of the NAMDHAREE SECT....long long ago...NO HINDU has ever done anything like that...(not willingly but "Hindu" deaths in RIOTS have occered)..so ONLY SIKHS as usual rose to DEFEND the Gaoo mata of the Hindus.
 

Kamala

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1. An average HEN needs 24-26 HOURS to produce ONE EGG. 99% hens lay just 1 egg daily and SKIP some days (day off ha ha).

2. Cow slaughter Ban is the most stupid piece of law India has..its HINDU RADICAL POWER..not good governance/or secularism.... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/NA06Df05.html

3. A Calf has to be REMOVED OR IT WILL FINISH ALL THE MILK. Just as a woman has just enough to breast feed her child...a COW has just enough to FEED her Baby. NO WAY can someone like Kamala JI claim she NEVER removed the Calf and yet had enough milk..may be a FEW DROPS..ok..BUT def Not enough to fill a BOWL.

4 Its a Known FACT that INDIA has the Worlds largest population of ABANDONED COWS that roam the streets and villages foraging and scavenging for food. What a way to treat your Gaoo mata Ji....BIGGEST FRAUD on EARTH. These cows SUFFER painful hunger/cold/accidents with vehicles/injuries/beatings from frustrated farmers/street hawkers/vendors etc etc... As GURU NANAK ji observed 550 years ago..Brahman Gaoo Ko Kar laveh..GOBAR taran na Jaii..the Brahmin TAXES the COW but thinks the BULL.**** Can save him and his soul !!! (GOBAR is cow Bull.****) Even Today Indians use cow urine and shi.t to Clean/purify/as HOLY !!

Just a month ago a neighbour who is a hindu bought a new house..in the morning the brahmins brought a cow..who was paraded around the house...made to climb up narrow flights of stairs and PRODDED with a stick UP (hers) in order to FORCE URINE OUT at random Places to PURIFY the House...even my youngest son who is just 3 asked me..daddy why they are hurting the cow to make her urinate ??..uggh isnt that GROSS ?? I said SHUT UP SON..it may hurt our neighbors religious sentiments..just keep quiet and observe..
Last time I remembered our cow in India the baby died, so we didn't technically separate it from the mother :)

I also don't remember me abandoning any cows, have you ever seen a gaushala? People take cows in and keep them in there. I respect Sri Erudi Devi (Gau mata) and would feed any cows I see as we are not poor. The cows are roaming around hungry because the people cannot afford to feed them , just like how you can't afford to feed every pigeon or kutha on the streets.

There are tons of reets in India, I never say I am defending them all. I see you care about your neighbors sentiments, but what about mine? Arent I equally as human?

and heres another link for kamala Ji (USA NIWASEE) about the REALITY of COWS in HINDU INDIA.....Indians shamelessly MILK the cow for POLITICAL POWER....!!

http://satyameva-jayate.org/2012/02/08/cow-slaughter/

2. Secondly about the ONLY Humans in INDIA... who WILLINGLY SACRIFICED THEIR HUMAN LIVES FOR COWS..were SIKHS of the NAMDHAREE SECT....long long ago...NO HINDU has ever done anything like that...(not willingly but "Hindu" deaths in RIOTS have occered)..so ONLY SIKHS as usual rose to DEFEND the Gaoo mata of the Hindus.

I don't see any video. I don't know how you can say the only humans in India, I don't think you made a survey or anything :p I know I would die for a cow IF I was face to face with a person going to slaughter; better yet I'd just slaughter the person going to slaughter the cow. ;)


Also, I find it VERY offensive of you saying I am a coward for being vegan. I don't remember me being chased from meat eating people making me eat meat. I don't think you will ever understand the fact that by NOT eating it gives you SENTIMENTAL VALUE that you do NOT support this. I do NOT support it, thus I am vegan, but if it CHANGED I would stop. I will never understand why people kill animals who love their life as much as us just for food. I do believe this is Kalyug now haha.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Kamala Ji,

1. Of course I care about your sentiments just as i care about my neighbour's sentiments..I just DONT AGREE. I am deeply offended you made this assumption.

2. we would all love it if you made a survey of Cow Shaeeds...i ma simply quoting HISTORY..never made nay surveys...

3. its a LINK..not a video..

cheer up...keep on doing what you do..japposatnamwaheguru::happykudi:
 

Kamala

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Well sorry Gyani Jarnail Singh ji. :( I don't see what part you don't agree with..

Ha ha, a survey would be too much for me to handle :p Sorry, I got mixed up with the video part :p I read most of it.
 

Randip Singh

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1. I don't remember me taking the calf away from the mother.

So let me get this right, any cows you have had have not produced milk after giving birth.

Now either you do not understand basic bioligy or you have milk from mutant cows.:happykudi:

The cow produces milk after giving birth only and for feeding its calf. In our farm in Punjab we had several, and we used to have to take the calf away and tie it up so it didn't drink the milk. THAT is how it works. THAT is the cruelty of milk. The calf pines for it mothers milk yet Vashnavites can justify that with hypocrasy.peacesign


2. When 5 andas comes out of your butt and it is almost as big as your body please do tell me how that feels :)

Err no. This post is a bit juvenille. This is aupposed to be an adult debate. If you do not understand basic biolicy, then ask me and I will explain.

The egg comes out of the Chickens uterus, and comes out part of its cycle. Looks like YOU did not read the site I posted on how eggs are produced which makes NO reference to chickens feeling pain when they lay eggs. :singhsippingcoffee: Here is a post from a chicken keeper:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/farmlife/msg1012434027916.html

The egg laying process is very dramatic! Here's what my hens do, see if it matches yours: when one is about to lay an egg, she will go rather frantically from nesting spot to nesting spot in the yard, all the while bawking and crying in a fretful tone, sometimes she'll seem downright frenzied. Sometimes other hens or the roo will accompiany her in her search for the Perfect Nesting Spot, and THEY have to get in on the noisemaking, too. The hen may also watch another hen who is laying, sticking her head in the nest box and cackling her head off at the top of her lungs. We call this the 'pre-egg cackle', and I think it serves to draw out any predators before the hen is committed to laying the egg and is stuck on the nest. When the hen is FINALLY actually ready to lay, she gets very quiet and secretive. She'll choose a nest (usually the same one she used before, despite all the searching that went on before) and as she sits, will seem to go into a trance, being quite still. When the egg is coming out she will stand up and concentrate hard (Moms who have seen their small children passing a bowel movement know this look!) and seem to strain a bit, then out pops the egg! After this she may stay and mother it for a few minutes, then will leap from the nest cackling loudly and sometimes running. Most of the time she'll go and eat a little food and have a drink.
All the hens treat their egg laying (and everyone else's) as a cause for loud celebration. I think the noise you are hearing is that rather than screams of pain. Also, for first-time layers, there is that freaked-out, 'what the heck just happened to me?!' quality to the hens' reaction to laying her first eggs. *L* They take this more in stride as they mature. The only time I'd worry is if you suspect a hen is egg-bound, and then you need to act very quickly. It isn't very common in chickens who get a good diet and proper care though. The symptoms of an eggbound hen are fairly marked, if you want to read more on it research the Internet or click on my 'My Page' link, I've discussed eggbinding there a bit.



I can almost gurantee that you didn't even read the site that Gyani Jarnail ji posted, LOL!

Actually I did and I find it reprehensible BUT my answer to that was to buy ORGANIC and FREERANGE. Please look the terms up. I suggest you do that with all the veg you buy as well, to prevent cruelty to animals and the environment.welcomekaur
 
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Randip Singh

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This is what happens to dairy calves in Australia: http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-happens-to-bobby-calves_87.html

Randip Singh ji:
What about the discarded male chicks in the egg industry? You have to breed chickens to get chickens to lay eggs but per hukam some chicks hatch male and some female - the males are not required by the industry and subsequently destroyed. Organic or not.

Eggs are unfertilised. They will produce no chicks, hence why it is called an egg.

The only time you will get an chick is when a {censored}erel mates with a chicken.

Organic and ethical farmers do not kill male chicks in any case.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/eggs.aspx

Or to ensure it doesn't keep your own and check the chickens.
 
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Randip Singh

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Or eat each other - chickens do that frequently.

But even if the chickens are treated well - free range, organic fed, etcetc the male chicks are still discarded like junk mail (or is that junk male...)

No offence but you really have NO idea about what organic or ethical food is. You should try and do some research before you post. OK so you don't want to eat meat, but please don't back up your arguments with hysteria or falsehood.....thats the kind of tact Peta take.

http://www.livingethically.co.uk/pages/infocus/05sep-chickens.htm

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/01/the-best-kind-of-chicken-farming/68520/


I can post hundreds of other links....but I don't think you are really interested in the truth are you :motherlylove:
 

Randip Singh

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BACK on topic. ISHNAji and KAMALAji have decided to make it a meat debate. Any more posts on meat will be deleted.

The question is about :

1) Western Vegeterians who eat eggs?
2) Indian Vegetarians who don't eat eggs?

From what I see the Indian vegetarians saying they are saying that western vegetarians are not vegetarians. There seems to be a lot of hear say and a lot of tittle tattle, but no bioogical fact. Interesting.

Links on milk:

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/Cows-Milk-A-Cruel-and-Unhealthy-Product.aspx

There's even organic in India now:

http://ecocertindia.wordpress.com/

some of the arguments about truw organic:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/13/organic-vs-conventional-h_n_201609.html

local organic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4312591.stm
 

Luckysingh

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It's not just the eggs, it's all the foods that use egg or egg white, that sometimes goes a little too far in my opinion.
Certain individuals will insist that if invited to your kids birthday party for example, then they will only eat the cake if it has no egg product!!
I'm sure we have all encountered similar situations. They will also not have muffins, pancakes...etc..
I remember one who refused to eat my wife's salad because there was a salad dressing with some egg traces!!!

The fact is (which I heard from a chef), that most foods contain some form of egg and egg white, but they only have to DECLARE the content amounts if it exceeds a certain value (ie. an x amount of milligrams). This is because above a certain threshold, the amount can be enough to cause a reaction for people with egg allergies.

So, we can see that someone trying to be completely egg free is more or less near impossible.

It seems crazy that majority of people cannot understand that consuming eggs is no worse than milk!
 

Ishna

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Randip Singh Ji, with all due respect (which is more than you've cared to show me) I believe you have misunderstood my point. Feel free to delete my clarification here if it goes against your point of view.

I understand quite well how chicken biology works, thank you. Female chickens lay unfertilised eggs if they do not breed with a male. They continue to do so until they stop laying eggs and die. When your chickens die, you get a male and breed some more chickens. As I'm not aware if we can select the sex of the chickens before they hatch, we end up with a bunch of female egg laying chicks and a bunch of male chicks who don't lay eggs. These male chicks are quite often destroyed as they will not produce unfertilised eggs.

A colleague of mine keeps chickens on her semi-rural property just outside of my town. She brings her organic, free range eggs to work and we buy them (myself include, sir). When I visited her fir Christmas one year she explained to the group in conversation that they'd just borrowed a friend's male chicken (rooster, {censored}rel, whatever) and hatched a some more chickens. The males were put in a box, taken out of town a couple of kilometer and left to the foxes.

Please tell me how male chicks are processed in an ethical, organic commercial setup as I would like to know. It is not evident from the links you provided.

If you must delete my post, kindly respond by private message.

Regards.
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Well many "ethical" organic chicken raisers like myself raise the males for meat...and the hens for eggs.. others may deal with them the way many Sikhs/Punjabis deal with female foetuses ?? Just as a female child seems like a "burden" to many Sikhs..a male chick is a waste of resources to some farmers..to each his own...ethics vary from person to person..
maybe..just maybe..this cycle is divine "retribution"...ALL those who KILLED their Female children - born and unborn..GET to be Reincarnated as MALE CHICKS ( since they LOVED MALE Human babies so much they were willing to KILL female children)..and so get their JUST DESERTS ?? anything goes...maybe you see..... what you WANT is what you get..I ma SURE Kamala Ji will LOVE this part ..he he:grinningsingh::grinningsingh::grinningsingh::grinningsingh::grinningsingh:
 

Randip Singh

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Randip Singh Ji, with all due respect (which is more than you've cared to show me) I believe you have misunderstood my point. Feel free to delete my clarification here if it goes against your point of view.

I understand quite well how chicken biology works, thank you. Female chickens lay unfertilised eggs if they do not breed with a male. They continue to do so until they stop laying eggs and die. When your chickens die, you get a male and breed some more chickens. As I'm not aware if we can select the sex of the chickens before they hatch, we end up with a bunch of female egg laying chicks and a bunch of male chicks who don't lay eggs. These male chicks are quite often destroyed as they will not produce unfertilised eggs.

A colleague of mine keeps chickens on her semi-rural property just outside of my town. She brings her organic, free range eggs to work and we buy them (myself include, sir). When I visited her fir Christmas one year she explained to the group in conversation that they'd just borrowed a friend's male chicken (rooster, {censored}rel, whatever) and hatched a some more chickens. The males were put in a box, taken out of town a couple of kilometer and left to the foxes.

Please tell me how male chicks are processed in an ethical, organic commercial setup as I would like to know. It is not evident from the links you provided.

If you must delete my post, kindly respond by private message.

Regards.

Sorry if I seemed discurteous, but I find posts that don't back themselves a bit tedious and if you scroll back and re-read some of them you'll see what I mean. Between you wanting to vomit and Kamala making eggs come out of my backside, the topic had gone awry.

Ethical farmers (as Gyani ji pointed out), use male chicks for meat. {censored}erel meat is particularly sought after in the East.

The problem with {censored}erels is however, left to their own devices, they will attack and kill each other, thats why some think its better to just leave the chicks out to be killed by fox's....at least it provides food for them.

But I really don't see how this is different from milk production, where the calf is removed from the cow, and killed for veal?
 
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Ishna

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Randip ji, yes you were discourteous but I appreciate your apology. I also apologise for making cheap one-liner posts that don't contribute to meaningful discussion, that was my mistake. The vomiting was actually with reference to Gyani ji's recounting of the cow being made to urinate with a stick in her business but I failed to make that clear.

I've got no problems with ethical farming practices as yourself and Gyani ji have illustrated and agree with your question - how is it different than the milk/calf situation?
 
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Randip Singh

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Randip ji, yes you were discourteous but I appreciate your apology. I also apologise for making cheap one-liner posts that don't contribute to meaningful discussion, that was my mistake. The vomiting was actually with reference to Gyani ji's recounting of the cow being made to urinate with a stick in her business but I failed to make that clear.

I've got no problems with ethical farming practices as yourself and Gyani ji have illustrated and agree with your question - how is it different than the milk/calf situation?

Me personally, I've tried every spectrum of vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism, to see how my spirituality could accomadate that.

I have come to the conclusion that it is about your own conscious and what it can live with. If you don't like the idea of something then don't do it. Simple!

We have some very good friends in Model Town in Jallandhar, very wealthy and I remember him sat with me (Hindu Vaishnavite btw), telling me how proud he was the he was a vegetarian and he wasn't cruel to animals. He then gets a phone call from someone who sounded quite desperate and to whom he owed money. He put the phone down. I thought how cruel he was to that fellow who was obviously distressed and had owed mony to for years and yet he was saying how kind he was to animals. The hypocrasy was there to be seen. He would no doubt justify what he did.

The same could be said of eggs and milk debate here, with people justifying their positions.
 

Kamala

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So let me get this right, any cows you have had have not produced milk after giving birth.

Now either you do not understand basic bioligy or you have milk from mutant cows.:happykudi:

The cow produces milk after giving birth only and for feeding its calf. In our farm in Punjab we had several, and we used to have to take the calf away and tie it up so it didn't drink the milk. THAT is how it works. THAT is the cruelty of milk. The calf pines for it mothers milk yet Vashnavites can justify that with hypocrasy.peacesign




Err no. This post is a bit juvenille. This is aupposed to be an adult debate. If you do not understand basic biolicy, then ask me and I will explain.

The egg comes out of the Chickens uterus, and comes out part of its cycle. Looks like YOU did not read the site I posted on how eggs are produced which makes NO reference to chickens feeling pain when they lay eggs. :singhsippingcoffee: Here is a post from a chicken keeper:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/farmlife/msg1012434027916.html

The egg laying process is very dramatic! Here's what my hens do, see if it matches yours: when one is about to lay an egg, she will go rather frantically from nesting spot to nesting spot in the yard, all the while bawking and crying in a fretful tone, sometimes she'll seem downright frenzied. Sometimes other hens or the roo will accompiany her in her search for the Perfect Nesting Spot, and THEY have to get in on the noisemaking, too. The hen may also watch another hen who is laying, sticking her head in the nest box and cackling her head off at the top of her lungs. We call this the 'pre-egg cackle', and I think it serves to draw out any predators before the hen is committed to laying the egg and is stuck on the nest. When the hen is FINALLY actually ready to lay, she gets very quiet and secretive. She'll choose a nest (usually the same one she used before, despite all the searching that went on before) and as she sits, will seem to go into a trance, being quite still. When the egg is coming out she will stand up and concentrate hard (Moms who have seen their small children passing a bowel movement know this look!) and seem to strain a bit, then out pops the egg! After this she may stay and mother it for a few minutes, then will leap from the nest cackling loudly and sometimes running. Most of the time she'll go and eat a little food and have a drink.
All the hens treat their egg laying (and everyone else's) as a cause for loud celebration. I think the noise you are hearing is that rather than screams of pain. Also, for first-time layers, there is that freaked-out, 'what the heck just happened to me?!' quality to the hens' reaction to laying her first eggs. *L* They take this more in stride as they mature. The only time I'd worry is if you suspect a hen is egg-bound, and then you need to act very quickly. It isn't very common in chickens who get a good diet and proper care though. The symptoms of an eggbound hen are fairly marked, if you want to read more on it research the Internet or click on my 'My Page' link, I've discussed eggbinding there a bit.





Actually I did and I find it reprehensible BUT my answer to that was to buy ORGANIC and FREERANGE. Please look the terms up. I suggest you do that with all the veg you buy as well, to prevent cruelty to animals and the environment.welcomekaur

I still think the sound is of pain, I've owned a couple of parakeets and I know they are really stressed when they lay eggs etc.

As for the cows, I really never was there while they milked the cows, so I didn't know, I just saw our servants milking them and they were quite careful.

Either way I don't see what hak you have to just eat the eggs, even if it is unfertilized. I find it nasty you must eat the food made for a animal that isn't even a mammal :S

You use the chicken as a tool for the sensation of your tastebuds, very nice very nice.
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