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What Is The Role Of Sants In The Khalsa Panth?

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According to the translation and understanding of Prof. Sahib Singh Jee it explains (prvwr dy jIv aus nvyN jMmy bwl ƒ ipAwr krdy hn, ies ipAwr ivc Ps ky aus dI pRBU-crnW nwloN) pRIq dI qwr tu`t jWdI hY, . . .
May I ask what humans should do then? Should they not love their newly born child following Prof. Sahib Singh Jee's explanations?

PK70 Jee, please advise.

Also, I could not find the Guru's Vaak that the translator has understood so.


Balbir Singh
 

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Balbir ji

This is what pk70 has posted with respect to your quesiton.

As is the fire of womb within, so is the fire of mammon (Maya) without. The fires of worldly valuable and of the womb are all the same. The Creator has set agoing this play. When it pleases His, then is the child born and the family is well pleased. The Lord's Love departs, greed attaches to the child and mammon's writ begins to run. Such is this mammon, by which the Lord is forgotten, worldly love wells up and one is attached to the love of another. Says Nanak, they, who enshrine love for the Lord, by Guru's grace, obtain the Lord in the midst of mammon.

This is about loving children in a false way. Using them to further one's own haumei, to foster a sense of self that robs one's own soul and robs a child from having a healthy sense of connection with the Guru. It is about the wrong kind of love.
The Lord's Love departs, greed attaches to the child and mammon's writ begins to run

Antonia D'Onofrio
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Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

Prof. Sahib Singh Jee seem to have understood Gurdev when he wrote (prvwr dy jIv aus nvyN jMmy bwl ƒ ipAwr krdy hn, ies ipAwr ivc Ps ky aus dI pRBU-crnW nwloN) pRIq dI qwr tu`t jWdI hY, . . .
You seem to have understood Prof. Sahib Singh Jee as you wrote "This is about loving children in a false way. Using them to further one's own haumei, to foster a sense of self that robs one's own soul and robs a child from having a healthy sense of connection with the Guru. It is about the wrong kind of love."

Now you want me to understand your explanation about loving children in a false way. You have not said a word about the right way to love children though.

Did Gurdev also say once that 'The Lord's Love departs' and Jeevs get lost because parents love children in a false way?

Quote "It is about the wrong kind of love. The Lord's Love departs, greed attaches to the child and mammon's writ begins to run."
Have I understood it correctly? Mammon's writ begins to run after Jeevs begin to love their children wrongly.


Balbir Singh
 

pk70

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Aad0002 Ji
Late Dr Sahib Singh ji had an excellent understanding about the depth of Gurbani and its application; in this context he is saying what Guru ji defined Maya in various contexts. Remaining above Maya effects doesn’t mean at all to abandon sons, daughters, wife and other family as Mr. Balbir Singh points out; however, idea is against getting drowned in their love and ignoring all virtual ways and HIM. The following Guru Vaakas will clear this superficial misconception.
ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਜਾਇ
दूजै भाइ न सेविआ जाइ ॥
ūjai bā*ė na sėvi*ā jā*ė.
In the love of duality, no one can serve the Lord.
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਹਾ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਇ
हउमै माइआ महा बिखु खाइ ॥
Ha*umai mā*i*ā mahā bik kā*ė.
In egotism and Maya, they are eating toxic poison.
ਪੁਤਿ ਕੁਟੰਬਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਮਾਇ
पुति कुट्मबि ग्रिहि मोहिआ माइ ॥
Pu kutamb garihi mohi*ā mā*ė.
They are emotionally attached to their children, family and home.
ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਅੰਧਾ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ( GGS Ji 161)
Page 166, Line 12
ਇਹੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਇ ਦੂਜੈ ਫਾਸ
इहु माइआ मोह कुट्मबु है भाइ दूजै फास ॥
Ih mā*i*ā moh kutamb hai bā*ė ūjai fās.
This emotional attachment to Maya and family, and the love of duality, is a noose around the neck.
Page 219, Line 9
ਪੂਤ ਮੀਤ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਆਪੁ ਬੰਧਾਵੈ
पूत मीत माइआ ममता सिउ इह बिधि आपु बंधावै ॥
mā*i*ā mamā si*o ih biḏẖ āp banḏẖāvai.
In this way, they bind themselves to children, friends, Maya and possessiveness.
 

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Quote from PK70 Jee "Late Dr Sahib Singh ji had an excellent understanding about the depth of Gurbani and its application; in this context he is saying what Guru ji defined Maya in various contexts."
A person entangled in translations is perhaps messed up. He refers the name of one translator but copy and pastes someone's else.
Please explain what is your personal understanding of the reverend Guru's Vaaks. Truth is that one realizes, not others.

*****

Quote from PK70 Jee (#3 of this topic) "Gursikh has Guru Shabad, there is no need left to find Sant, . . ."

Please listen. Gurdev is singing.
sMq ibnw mY Qwau n koeI Avr n sUJY jwvnw ]6]
sNq ibnw mY Qwa n koeé Avr n sUJY jwvnw ]6]
sant binaa mai thaa-o na ko-ee avar na soojhai jaavnaa. ||6|| SGGS 1018
Without the Saint, I have no place of rest at all; I cannot think of any other place to go. ||6|| (Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa)

Please clarify this. When Guru Arjan Dev Jee might have written the above Vaak, was it before the wisdom of Sabad or afterwards? I will be grateful.


Balbir Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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.....Balbir ji writes...<<<<<<The first step is he needs to receive the true Naam Simran by the Grace of God. >>>>>>>>>> I agree....

...yes and this is given by the PANJ during Khandeh batte dee Pahul ceremony in the august presence of the One Supreme SAINT of all time..Sahib Guru Granth sahib Jee Mahraj. After vasakhi 1699 this "Naam dee daat" is not availble from any "individual"..who so ever says so..is a liar and a fraud "false Guru"/false saint/saadh/dehdharee GURU?SANT?SAADH ceased to exist. .

Gyani jarnail Singh
 

sunsingh

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Section V

Let us reiterate. Today, a Sant cannot replace Gurbani, the Guru, or the Panj Piyare, nor would a real Sant ever attempt to do so. Genuine Sikh Sant would claim to be only a Sikh and will kindle a desire in us so that we can be just like him, a true child of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sant is the pinnacle of Sikh Panth.

If we continue to live as if this goal is unreachable and disregard seeking company of such Sikhs, then, either Gurbani has failed us or we have failed Gurbani. People tend to ignore the portions of Gurbani they cannot understand, or they derail them with some alternate meaning just because they lack faith in its simple and straightforward meaning. How can we claim to be in Sat Sangat if we do not believe in, and anticipate, its outcome?

If we were truly in Sat Sangat, then, someone among us must be turning into a Sant every so often. Otherwise, we must be wrong somewhere. If we do not have this conviction in our heart, then, clearly we have a problem (881:13-19). Our faith in Gurbani is valid only if we have a yearning and a hope to meet a perfect Gursikh, sometime soon, within our lifetime. We need to anticipate it, and pray for it whenever we are in the Sangat (763:1-. Gurbani is replete with Shabads saturated with this desire. They infuse vitality into the Sangat. If it were not so important, we would not have so many such Shabads.

Guru Ji promises that there is always a Sant living somewhere in this world (1429:9, 1204:5). Sant is our role model, a testimony to the ultimate triumph of the Guru. However, emergence of our role model rests upon our own desire to meet such a person. Gurbani kindles this desire in our heart. Sant is the living proof that it is possible, today, as always, to become God-conscious while living in this society. Gurbani exhorts us, repeatedly, to have a yearning to see such perfect Gursikhs, just to assuage our doubts, if for no other purpose (810:13-17). Coming to Sangat with this desire is the road towards spiritual awakening.

Here is a Shabad, regarding the qualities of Sant (adapted from translation by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa):

"Aasaa, Fifth Mehl: Twenty-four hours a day, they know the Lord to be near, they surrender to the Sweet Will of God. Only the One Name is the Support of the Saints, they consider themselves as dust of the feet of all. My brother, listen, to the conduct of the Saints, their greatness cannot be described. Pause. They trade only the Name of the Lord. They are the vision of bliss, Kirtan, the Praise of the Lord, is their repose. Friends and enemies are same to them, They know of no other than God. They erase millions upon millions of sins, dispelling suffering; they give spiritual life to the soul. They are brave, men of their word. The Saints have enticed Maya herself. Even the gods and the angels seek their company. Blessed is their Darshan, and fruitful is their service. With my palms pressed together, Nanak offers his prayer: O Lord, Treasure of Excellence, please bless me with the service of the Saints." (392:13-1

Disregard of this sacred term cannot protect us from the charlatans. It only promotes ignorance and certain superficiality. This creates a spiritual void among the Sikh masses and thus, it makes them vulnerable to individuals who claim to be a Saint or a Guru. As a result, while our congregations become anemic and ritualistic due to a deficiency in this vital component of Sat Sangat, many members become discouraged and leave to join some fervently misguided group away from the mainstream Sangat. A Sant would never allow this. It also results in attrition of our young members to various other spiritual and religious disciplines. Perhaps we expect too much from the masses. As Guru Ji has said, true seekers are rare souls.

Being a revolutionary, Guru Nanak introduced the remedy, a unique method to liberate us en masse: Sat Sangat generated with Gurbani, augmented with music and singing from the heart. Kirtan of GurShabd or God's Word, in Sadh Sangat can gradually, or instantly, convert ordinary masses into Saints (642:7). In Sangat, Gurbani uses the ordinary Sikhs joined to sing Gurbani, to uplift each other, during the window of those elusive moments when the ego is silenced through Kirtan of Gurbani (1185:10).

Whenever two or more Sikhs, with faith in the miracle of Sangat, join and sing Gurbani, they are creating a Sadh Sangat. On the other hand, a multitude joined for singing Gurbani, but lacking faith in the outcome of Sangat, succeeds in creating only, a multitude singing Gurbani. Let us never confuse the two as the same.

It is amazing that even the faithless multitude gets blessed, with crumbs, falling from the feast enjoyed by those Gursikhs who cherish the Sangat and have a firm faith in its outcome. This is a miracle of Sat Sangat that everyone gets blessed by just being there (861:8, 493:2). Thus, in due course, an association with the Sangat is meant to spiritually awaken everyone.
 

sunsingh

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Naam comes from Guru ji (not discussing gurmantar here, but Naam dhan, a blessing of very high spiritual status). Sants will give the vidhi (mehtod) for attaining this to those they find worthy. They have the keys.

Of course, if Guru ji wants to give Naam without a sant, than he may do so.

in fact, it is the sants who understand and teach the true teachings of Gurmat, not worldy scholars.

He who practices the words of the Saints
He is ferried across by the Guru’s grace
jay ko bachan kamaavai santan kaa so gur parsaadee taree-ai.
(Suhi 5th Guru, page 747)

bilaaval mehalaa 5 ||
Bilaaval, Fifth Mehla:

sa(n)than kai suneeath prabh kee baath ||
I listen to God’s Teachings from the Saints.


kathhaa keerathan aana(n)dh ma(n)gal dhhun poor rehee dhinas ar raath ||1|| rehaao ||
The Lord’s Sermon, the Kirtan of His Praises and the songs of bliss perfectly resonate, day and night. ||1||Pause||

kar kirapaa apanae prabh keenae naam apunae kee keenee dhaath ||
In His Mercy, God has made them His own, and blessed them with the gift of His Name.

aat(h) pehar gun gaavath prabh kae kaam krodhh eis than thae jaath ||1||
Twenty-four hours a day, I sing the Glorious Praises of God. Sexual desire and anger have left this body. ||1||

thripath aghaaeae paekh prabh dharasan a(n)mrith har ras bhojan khaath ||
I am satisfied and satiated, gazing upon the Blessed Vision of God’s Darshan. I eat the Ambrosial Nectar of the Lord’s sublime food.

charan saran naanak prabh thaeree kar kirapaa sa(n)thasa(n)g milaath ||2||4||84||
Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of Your Feet, O God; in Your Mercy, unite him with the Society of the Saints. ||2||4||84||

All the worldly scholars do is raise noise about non-issues. They cry foul when a person touches the feet of one who does immense kirpa on them. Despite Gurbani promoting and allowing such satkaar numerous times.

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Archived_member2

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Quote from Gyani Jarnail Singh Jee ".....Balbir ji writes...<<<<<<The first step is he needs to receive the true Naam Simran by the Grace of God. >>>>>>>>>> I agree...."
This suggestion is from all the true Gurus.

Quote "...yes and this is given by the PANJ during Khandeh batte dee Pahul ceremony in the august presence of the One Supreme SAINT of all time..Sahib Guru Granth sahib Jee Mahraj. After vasakhi 1699 this "Naam dee daat" is not availble from any "individual"..who so ever says so..is a liar and a fraud "false Guru"/false saint/saadh/dehdharee GURU?SANT?SAADH ceased to exist. ."
Not a single message from the above is from the true Gurus. Please provide an authentic proof from the reverend Gurus where they have suggested so. I will be grateful.


Balbir Singh
 

pk70

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Thanks for the bait; my answer is NO, no more entertainment. It is my great pleasure to declare that I have no interest in nowadays’ self claimed Nam achievers, sadh, sant, Babasas, and gurus, thanks to Gurbani.
ਬਕਿ ਬਕਿ ਵਾਦੁ ਚਲਾਇਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਜਾਣਿ
Bak bak vā calā*i*ā bin nāvai bik. ||1||
Talking too much, one only starts arguments. Without the Name, everything is poison - know this well. ||1||
 

sunsingh

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Jun 4, 2008
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Section VI

Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the formula: "Meditate upon the formless God, connect with the Shabad, and seek the glorious sight of the Khalsa." We need to follow this command thoroughly, with full faith and conviction. We know from the Bani of the Tenth Master that the definition of Khalsa is no different than the definition of a Sant. A Sant in the Sikh Panth today would keep the Rehit prescribed by the tenth Master, would dislike being called a Sant or a Guru, and would never lead the Sikhs away from mainstream Sangat into some eccentric group. These are some important qualities of a perfect Gursikh. Sangat of Guru Khalsa or such perfect Sikhs, and submitting to the Panj Piyare is the foundation of Sikh Panth.

In conclusion, here is an excerpt, from 'Anmol Bachan' compiled by Surjit Kaur Gandhi, pp. 54-55. Once Sri Naranjan Singh Ji was asked, what is the definition of a perfect soul? His reply is translated as follows:

"Perfect person is he who has the power to change the circumstances, the direction of events, but does not change because of the circumstances. Brahmgyani's words are more powerful than millions of soldiers. A Brahmgyani's word does not go to waste, as Guru Ji says, 'Sadhu's word is eternal' (1204:6). A perfect soul's command cannot be reversed here nor it can be reversed in heaven. Perfect souls can endure what would be otherwise impossible. They give hints, but do not tell their secrets.

"A Brahmgyani, A perfect person's eyes sprinkle Amrit. Hearts that have been on fire are pacified. Their vision removes doubts and answers all questions. Their sight is peace giving and the mind comes to rest. Disturbance is replaced with Smadhi, poison is replaced with Amrit, and the tenth gate is opened. Perfect souls teach only Gurmat. They dispel darkness within our mind.

"We must sustain perfect faith. If our faith is deficient then, there can be no knowledge or spiritual light. 'Those who did not know how to love, fall by the wayside' (1425:2) Perfect souls know other people's thoughts. God Himself is present with a perfect soul. This is not a secret. There is no trick involved here. 'He has placed Himself in the true Guru. This is declared openly' (466:

"Once, during the Katha of Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Sant Ji said that a perfect soul's feet become spiritually alive. Dead used to wake up after being touched by Baba Amardas Ji's feet. Perfect beings live in gratitude. Their words are for everyone, in the entire world. Sant Attar Singh Ji used to say that Darshan is governed by the word (obeying the command). Seeing Akaal Purakh is having Darshan of the Guru. 'Gurmukh is in the Divine Sound and in the Vedas. Gurmukh is all pervading.' (2:

"Time, space, and causation become nonexistent in the presence of a Perfect soul. 'My friends are only those, whose mere sight banishes my ignorance' (520: 'They are found standing where the accounts are being settled' (529:3) Such souls weigh every word seriously before uttering it. They are solemn, fathomless, and deep thinkers. They are the Sun of knowledge. Their personality is like the sea. Just as one cannot fathom the sea, one cannot fathom them either. Mahapurush have the experience of Gurmat. 'He, in whose heart Nirankar has taken residence, the entire world is delivered through his teaching' (269:9)" ~ End of excerpt

Saints are the only humans that are truly alive in this world. The rest of us make up the bulk of Sikh Panth. Their company enlivens us (e.g., p. 881). Sant is the lifeblood on Panth. God hides Himself in a Sant's heart (718:11). Guru Ji says, "The sole purpose of a Jan (Sant) coming into this world is that we remember Naam in their company" (295:1).

This is the last post in the series of articles.
from Sikhnet forum.
 

sunsingh

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Jun 4, 2008
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I think at this point we should ask ourselves, why is there so much confusion? Why do so many scholars say that sants do not exist?

I think there are two reasons for this:

1) To prevent people from being misled by a fake sant. - This viewpoint shows a lack of sharda on the individual's part. Fake sants existsed during the Guru's time as well. Recall Sajjan Thag, who masquaraded as a holy man to steal people's belongings. Nobody has any right to mislead people about Gurmat Marg. Those who do this for another's "own good" are acting in haumai.

2) To deliberately mislead people as sants teach things that are different from the so called scholar's own ideology. These "scholars" often use the excuse in number one. Examples of such liars and underminers of the Guru's teachings include Singh Sabha International and Singh Sabha Canada (who attempt to use the good name of the Singh Sabha movement to portray themselves as reformers when they are anything but that).

The following video shows immense nindya of the Guru's sants, gurmukhs such as Baba Gurbachan Singh ji: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...90&q=nanaksar&ei=9_Q5SMqTJIGKqAPbtJzwAw&hl=en
The video highlights the fanatical, narrow minded aspects of these dangerous anti-panthic groups.
 
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sunsingh

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Jun 4, 2008
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Who is a True Sant?

Sant Sipahi is a point that we reach on this path. We do not automatically become sants once we accept Amrit. Gurbani in numerous places describes the qualities of a sant, what it takes to be one, normal human beings or normal Gursikhs clearly are not sants.

In Japji sahib it states that the consciousness is refashioned at certain spiritual stages, and those not yet at this stage cannot comprehend the consciousness of such a person. This is the greatness of sants, that they are so advanced in their understanding and do such kirpa in leading us to the Guru's feet.

Role of Sants: http://www.sikhism.us/gurmat-vichaar/21970-what-is-role-sants-khalsa-panth.html

The Singh Sabha International and the Canadian Singh Sabha are attempting to capitalise from the god name of the Singh Sabha movement to promote their own brand of Sikhi, completely different from what the Gurus have taught. This video shows an example where they have included true Sants in their nindya, this highlights a fanatical anti-Gurmat mindset common among many of those of the missionary ilk that needs to be exposed.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...90&q=nanaksar&ei=9_Q5SMqTJIGKqAPbtJzwAw&hl=en
The propaganda of the RSS and the Indian Government could not be as effective as the propaganda of these dangerous anti-Sikh groups. This is because they have the appearance of Sikhs and spread their twisted ideology from within the Sikh community.
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

The way i look at it..these Babas have done more harm to Gurmatt and Sikhi already. Each DERA has its own Maryada and refuse to follow the Panth Approved Sikh Rehat Maryada. Nnaksar is cult as they dont have NISHAN SAHIBS, Dont have GURDWARAS,DONT have Guru Ka Langgar BUT against SGGS/Gurbani and SRM...they DO HAVE PIctures of their Sants at par with Parkash of SGGS.
The One and ONLY TRUE SANT is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that is physical manifestation of AKAL PURAKH and Divine Message.
Singh Sabha International Canada is doing a yeomans service to the Guru Khalsa Panth in awakening us to these termites within us. Our One and ONLY Guru is SGGS....BOTH SANT and SIPAHI- the COMPLETE GURU.
Gyani jarnail Singh
 

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Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Sunsingh ji

Many groups and sangats within "mainstream" Sikhism, and there are scores, as we can see from the news about infighting among Jathedars in India, believe that they walk on the path of Sikhism in its purest form. It is not my place to decide who is walking on the right path and who is not. However, SPN is a place that is organized to promote diverse expression.

quote
The Singh Sabha International and the Canadian Singh Sabha are attempting to capitalise from the god name of the Singh Sabha movement to promote their own brand of Sikhi, completely different from what the Gurus have taught. This video shows an example where they have included true Sants in their nindya, this highlights a fanatical anti-Gurmat mindset common among many of those of the missionary ilk that needs to be exposed.

The propaganda of the RSS and the Indian Government could not be as effective as the propaganda of these dangerous anti-Sikh groups. This is because they have the appearance of Sikhs and spread their twisted ideology from within the Sikh community. end quote

I have reported this post to the Leaders section for discussion -- to determine if a forum rule has been broken because of the harsh criticism voiced in your message. The discussion will determine whether this post will remain or whether it will be deleted. Until that decision is made I would ask you to desist from further harsh language.

Apologies if I have offended you, but we serve as I said a very diverse group of members, all of whom wish to be heard without condemnation.
 

pk70

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Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

I have seen the video posted by SunSingh ji., I really do not know who is this Canadian Singh Sabha group but I am curious about the persons shown in video. Were all of them true Sant? There are lot of Sant out there, respectfully I ask , should we just accept them as Sant to understand Guru Granth Sahib ji. I have been living in U.S.A for 20 years. Never met any Baba, Sant but I have studied only Guru Granth Sahib, and only this much effort tore apart my hypocrisy. Do we really need Sant or Sadhu? Only real Sadh -Sant, I know of, was Puran Singh Pingalwara, Sant of Dhyano Majra, they lived devoid of their own entity/ego, no sunglasses, no cars, no glamorous atmospheres but just “service or simran; how much public gave revering status to them compared to all Sant of this century? Guru ji says “Sant are important but only really ones,” and, first we have to decide and check out who is real one before just bowing to any one. In my recent visit to India, I witnessed Sikhs bowing to every thing, stones, Babas, Devis, Gnesha , Pundit etc; why it is so? What contribution of these Sant has in convincing Sikhs to devote themselves only to Akaalpurak? If there is any, why most of the people have crowd mentality even after listening to these Sant. During Guru times, Pirthye Meene, they opened up their own shops; some Guru Nanak’s followers went there too because Meharban meena and his decedents also did katha of Guru Nanak and other Guru jian’s Bani. Most of the Sikhs remained away from them and stuck to Real Guru ji because they analyzed these guys’ lives in context of real Guru ji’s eventually their shops got closed. When Guru ji gives importance to Sant, it is about people who are in ‘SEHAJ(equipoise)’ state, such persons’ behavior amazes the public. So far no luck in this context. I would like to end my comment with the following quote from SunSingh Ji
(quote) ……. We do not automatically become sants once we accept Amrit. Gurbani in numerous places describes the qualities of a sant, what it takes to be one, normal human beings or normal Gursikhs clearly are not sants.”
 

kds1980

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Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

In my recent visit to India, I witnessed Sikhs bowing to every thing, stones, Babas, Devis, Gnesha , Pundit etc; why it is so?

It is not only sikhs .i think Indians can bow to anything who is going to give them material or worldly gain.Recently I was sitting in with one our hindu family friend who is a devotee of a bhagwan of south.One of the other person pointed to its photo and said is he the same fellow who is exposed by India TV.That bhagwan charges rs.1.5 lakhs to allow people to touch his feet (around 4000$)He said yes he is the same guy.He started visiting him after his
business started failing and after his visits his business improved.The answer of our family friend was our karma are so bad that's why they charge and in the end of discussion he said are we people mad for giving him so much money.We are getting something

So my point is when you face worldly problem and by bowing to something your problem start vanishing though it is by co incidence.No matter what you say That person is not going to leave it.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Dearest Giani ji, kds and pk70,

Thanks for getting the discussion onto a review of issues.

Canadian Singh Saba (or Sabha) is located in Surrey, British Columbia. Is there an unfortunate mix-up? One scandalous Canddian Baba is Baba Harnak Grewal and his scandalous doings can be followed at this link. http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/402881910674ebab010674f4a82a1287.do.html

After an Internet search, I found nothing to suggest that Canadian Singh Sabha is mixed up with false Babas. In fact their Internet presence is very scanty. So maybe more information about the situation is necessary.

The video link in sunsingh's post is not working in my browser -- so when I can view it then I will know if we are talking about Baba Harnak or someone else.

UPDATE: I was able to view the video on YouTube. The url for the video is www.singhsabhacanada.com which is a branch of Singh Sabha International. So it appears to be unrelated to Canadian Singh Sabha. It also has nothing to do with Harnak Grewal.

When you see the video on the YouTube site it is obvious that singhsabhacanada is NOT promoting Babas and Sants. The organization is warning the public about the problem of fake Babas and self-styled Sants. That video and related videos are of
Nanaksar services in a number of cities in India.

Quite a few shots of Hindu style renunciates are depicted. I am inclined to agree with pk70, kids and Gyani jarnail -- we are witnessing a trend that is worldwide. My recommendation would be to change the title of the thread. Or to merge the thread with a similar thread started a day or two ago Core Gurmat Philosophy Self Made Scholars
because Canadian Sikhs are not the cultprits in this story.

Finally, let me repeat the comment made by Gyani Jarnail about Singh Sabha International Singh Sabha International Canada is doing a yeomans service to the Guru Khalsa Panth in awakening us to these termites within us. Our One and ONLY Guru is SGGS....BOTH SANT and SIPAHI- the COMPLETE GURU.

I apologize for it was necessary to come back to these comments many many times to edit them. But we have to get our facts straight before we identify groups as nindhya groups.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Are they any more less fanatical than AKJ, DDT, GNNSJ, Namdhari's etc?


Earlier in the thread "I apologize for it was necessary to come back to these comments many many times to edit them. But we have to get our facts straight before we identify groups as nindhya groups."

Are the facts straight in the thread ?(Randip ji and NamJap ji, remarks not directed to you)
 

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