What Is The Role Of Sants In The Khalsa Panth?

[sunsingh]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

In this thread, when referring to sant I am only referring to the real sants, not the fake ones. Unfortunately, in the video they are doing nindya of those sants who are real and have lead many people to the Guru's feet, such as Baba Gurbachan Singh ji.

Gyani ji, Gurbani teaches us to learn from the sants, and put their teachings into practice:
He who practices the words of the Saints
He is ferried across by the Guru’s grace
jay ko bachan kamaavai santan kaa so gur parsaadee taree-ai.
(Suhi 5th Guru, page 747)

If you feel otherwise, please provide references from Gurbani proving this.

My concern with this group is that they are trying to undermine this aspect of Gurmat, basically remake Sikhi but without sants. We see proof of this because they are insultingly implying that true sants are dehdari Gurus.

As for Nanaksar, unrelated to the thread as I'm only concerned with the group's attack on sants, so just fyi:
During Baba Nand Singh ji's time he held sangat in a remote place. They had no langar facilities and relied on whatever food was brought in from outside. Sometimes no food would be brought in for days and sangat would go hungry. But nobody ever died from starvation. God would always provide for enough food and water. In this way, they learned to rely on bhana (God's will) to provide for them.
Today, Nanaksar gurdwaras do not have a regular langar, for this reason they do not have Nishaan Sahibs.

Getting back to the matter at hand, by what right do these people imply that Baba Gurbachan Singh ji and other true sants are dehdhari gurus?

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Sunsingh ji

I will put my specific reactions within the quote of your comments.

But let me say first: The title of this thread is Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International. The Truth is that Singh Sabha International has a branch called Singh Sabha Canada NOT Canadian Singh Sabha. I tried to explain this earlier. Singh Sabha International, just like many Sikh organizations, has contributed its share of controversy in the recent past. However the group does not promote nindhya or false babas. As Gyani Jarnail Singh has pointed out, they are in the forefront of working against deeras led by fake babas. So the only conclusion that I can draw is that the thread title is creating an untruthful perception about Singh Sabha International and canadian sikhs in general.

My second point: The video that is posted in the beginning of the thread is not about Candadian Singh Sabha or Singh Saba International. It is likely that singhsabacanada.com may have posted that video to make a point -- watch out for these renegade deeras.

So my overall reaction is that the thread got off in an unfortunate way.

In this thread, when referring to sant I am only referring to the real sants, not the fake ones. Unfortunately, in the video they are doing nindya of those sants who are real and have lead many people to the Guru's feet, such as Baba Gurbachan Singh ji.


They may be doing nindhya of the real sants -- but Singh Sabha International has nothing to do with it.

Gyani ji, Gurbani teaches us to learn from the sants, and put their teachings into practice:
He who practices the words of the Saints
He is ferried across by the Guru’s grace
jay ko bachan kamaavai santan kaa so gur parsaadee taree-ai.
(Suhi 5th Guru, page 747)

If you feel otherwise, please provide references from Gurbani proving this.

No one is claiming otherwise. Gurbani indeed teaches us from the sants. But
Gurbani has no references regarding Sing Sabha International. And Singh Sabha International has no argument with Gurbani either.

My concern with this group is that they are trying to undermine this aspect of Gurmat, basically remake Sikhi but without sants. We see proof of this because they are insultingly implying that true sants are dehdari Gurus.

The group in that video and all the related videos on YouTube is a nanaksar group.

As for Nanaksar, unrelated to the thread as I'm only concerned with the group's attack on sants, so just fyi:

That is the group that is making the "attack" by this video and by other videos. But attack is a very strong word. Are they not taking a direction that you disagree with, and that I disagree with, but that they have every right to assert?

During Baba Nand Singh ji's time he held sangat in a remote place. They had no langar facilities and relied on whatever food was brought in from outside. Sometimes no food would be brought in for days and sangat would go hungry. But nobody ever died from starvation. God would always provide for enough food and water. In this way, they learned to rely on bhana (God's will) to provide for them.
Today, Nanaksar gurdwaras do not have a regular langar, for this reason they do not have Nishaan Sahibs.

Getting back to the matter at hand, by what right do these people imply that Baba Gurbachan Singh ji and other true sants are dehdhari gurus?

Who is claiming this? Singh Sabha International, singhsabhacanada.com, or Nanaksar?

To recap:
Singh Sabha International and Singh Sabha Canada are not doing nindhya of the Sants and Gurus. The video in question is about a Nanaksar organization which is an international organization. Canadian Siingh Sabha is a gurdwara in Richmond, British Columbia, Canadia. The title of the thread is misleading.

 

[sunsingh]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

The Truth is that Singh Sabha International has a branch called Singh Sabha Canada NOT Canadian Singh Sabha.

Sorry for mixing up the title of that group.

I tried to explain this earlier. Singh Sabha International, just like many Sikh organizations, has contributed its share of controversy in the recent past. However the group does not promote nindhya or false babas. As Gyani Jarnail Singh has pointed out, they are in the forefront of working against deeras led by fake babas. So the only conclusion that I can draw is that the thread title is creating an untruthful perception about Singh Sabha International and canadian sikhs in general.

Actually, they do nindya of sants.

My second point: The video that is posted in the beginning of the thread is not about Candadian Singh Sabha or Singh Saba International. It is likely that singhsabacanada.com may have posted that video to make a point -- watch out for these renegade deeras.

This point is also made by true sants. However, they do not insult other true sants while making such a point.

To recap:
Singh Sabha International and Singh Sabha Canada are not doing nindhya of the Sants and Gurus. The video in question is about a Nanaksar organization which is an international organization. Canadian Siingh Sabha is a gurdwara in Richmond, British Columbia, Canadia. The title of the thread is misleading.

Playing a song in the background that says free us from these dehdhari pakhandis while showing pictures of respected sants constitutes nindya. They also write comments on the pictures of these sants alleging that they are engaged in anti-Gurmat activities or that they have low character. How is that not nindya? The title of the thread is in no way misleading and it seems quite clear to me that this groups intention is to do nindya of sants.

Most of the video is about Nanaksar, however, the beginning of the video does nindya of sants from many different groups.

The video is also found at the Singh Sabha Canada website.
Read what is written in Gurbani about nindaks of the sants, about their characters. As you can plainly see, it really does show the truth about Singh Sabha Canada and Singh Sabha International.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Does this tuk sound familiar ?

Bhaag Hoaa Gur Sant Milaya
Prabh Abhinasi Ghar Mein Paiya

Ghar doesn't mean Physical Home but Body (Nij Ghar)
Sant means Guru and not "Sant'' Gurbachan Singh. Anybody belonging to Sikhism and believes in SGGS as our guru knows that any dehdhari does not qualify to be called a Sant let alone accept the position of sant.
There is no question of nindhiya as there are no sants (with the exception of fake baabas) in the Sikh dharma. The only sant is SGGS.

 

[sunsingh]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Does this tuk sound familiar ?

Bhaag Hoaa Gur Sant Milaya
Prabh Abhinasi Ghar Mein Paiya

Ghar doesn't mean Physical Home but Body (Nij Ghar)
Sant means Guru and not "Sant'' Gurbachan Singh. Anybody belonging to Sikhism and believes in SGGS as our guru knows that any dehdhari does not qualify to be called a Sant let alone accept the position of sant.
There is no question of nindhiya as there are no sants (with the exception of fake baabas) in the Sikh dharma. The only sant is SGGS.

So are you saying that Sant Jarnail Singh is not a sant?


There are numerous shabads stating that sants exist. They need to be looked at in context to be understood. If sants don't exist, than what do those people who successfully follow Gurmat Marg become? Sant avastha is the result of the Guru's teachings. We don't just remain the same after following the Guru's teachings everyday for a long period of time.

For more proof that sants do exist, see this thread - If you feel that they don't exist, feel free to disprove the vichaar on this thread: http://www.sikhism.us/gurmat-vichaar/21970-what-is-role-sants-khalsa-panth.html

We see the power of a Sikh who has correctly followed Gurmat Marg and reached the sant stage shown by Bhagat Naam Dev ji (panna 1252):


dws AinMn myro inj rUp ]
dhaas ani(n)n maero nij roop ||
Says God: my slave is devoted only to me; he is in my very image.

drsn inmK qwp qReI mocn prsq mukiq krq igRh kUp ]1] rhwau ]
dharasan nimakh thaap three mochan parasath mukath karath grih koop ||1|| rehaao ||
The sight of him, even for an instant, cures the three fevers; his touch brings liberation from the deep dark pit of household affairs. ||1||Pause||

myrI bWDI Bgqu CfwvY bWDY Bgqu n CUtY moih ]
maeree baa(n)dhhee bhagath shhaddaavai baa(n)dhhai bhagath n shhoottai mohi ||
The devotee can release anyone from my bondage, but I cannot release anyone from his.

eyk smY mo kau gih bWDY qau Puin mo pY jbwbu n hoie ]1]
eaek samai mo ko gehi baa(n)dhhai tho fun mo pai jabaab n hoe ||1||
If, at any time, he grabs and binds me, even then, I cannot protest. ||1||

mY gun bMD sgl kI jIvin myrI jIvin myry dws ]
mai gun ba(n)dhh sagal kee jeevan maeree jeevan maerae dhaas ||
I am bound by virtue; I am the Life of all. My slaves are my very life.

nwmdyv jw ky jIA AYsI qYso qw kY pRym pRgws ]2]3]
naamadhaev jaa kae jeea aisee thaiso thaa kai praem pragaas ||2||3||
Says Naam Dayv, as is the quality of his soul, so is my love which illuminates him. ||2||3||
As it clearly states in Japji Sahib, when a Sikh reaches the Saram Khand the intellect is refashioned.
ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ ॥
Ŧithai gẖaṛī*ai suraṯ maṯ man buḏẖ.
The intuitive consciousness, intellect and understanding of the mind are shaped there.

ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਾ ਸਿਧਾ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥੩੬॥
Ŧithai gẖaṛī*ai surā siḏẖā kī suḏẖ. ||36||
The consciousness of the spiritual warriors and the Siddhas, the beings of spiritual perfection, are shaped there. ||36||

In Karam Khand, the Sikh reaches a stage where their bachans (sayings) have spiritual power and come true:
ਕਰਮ ਖੰਡ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੋਰੁ ॥
Karam kẖand kī baṇī jor.
In the realm of karma, the Word is Power.

As we can clearly see, a person who follows this path and has the Guru's kirpa advances in spiritual level and their consciousness also becomes more enlightened. What else are sants but those who have reached the further reaches of Gurmat marg?

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

sunsingh ji

I have read what Gurbani says about sants many times over. The video on the singhsabhacanada web site is a demo. The organization is not supporting nindhya.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Sant is for Guru - Jarnail Singh never claimed himself a guru. If he did, then he should not be recognised as a Sikh. Yes, he was a good strategist and an up-coming politician.

Gur Darshan Sant Piyare Jio - what does this mean ?

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

We see the power of a Sikh who has correctly followed Gurmat Marg and reached the sant stage shown by Bhagat Naam Dev ji (panna 1252)

When we have Sant/Bhagat Namdev Ji's wisdom contained in the SGGS, do we then still need to find a dehdharee sant ? It's like finding a needle in a haystack, really. Gurbani explains how difficult it is to find a sant. Why start all over when Bhagat Namdev Ji speaks to us in his Sainthood. Better to drive on a worldclass highway than walking thru the forest. IMHO

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Guru piario Jio,
AAd ji has tried her very best to pull this thread from going overboard/sunk due to bad titling.
1. The Singh Sabha international is a US based Organsiation( Roseville California) that publishes the monthly Bulletin "Sikh Bulletin". The Founder of this Organsiation had very bad personal experience with one of the worst "Modern thugghs aka sants..called Sant baba AMARSINGH of Burundi NANAKSAR". This Sant had cheated him out of vast piece of land/buildings in the name of "Sikhi"...and was forced to give it all back after a lengthy court case. This sant is also one of those SANTS Permanently BANNED from entering MALAYSIA since the early 1970's due to serious charges. Singh Sabha International Blog... AND Welcome to Singh Sabha International Canada the
The Sikh Bulletin: November-December 2007.
2. These Singh Sabhas all ONLY preach and promote TATT GURMATT - stand solidly behind Only GURU GRANTH, Khalsa Panth approved Sikh Rehat Maryada of 1935. They check everything on the TOUCHSTONE of GURBANI in SGGS. Any thing..be it ritual..or anything else...no matter whether any Sant ji Brahmgiani Ji or Baba Ji said it or sanctioned it...IF THAT FAILS on the touchstone of GURBANI of SGGS..then it stands REJECTED. I agree with this approach 150%.

3. I agree completley with PK70....the Best example of a TRUE SANT/BHAGAT/GURMUKH/SAADH..is BHAGAT POORAN SINGH of Pingalwarra. No flashy cars/limos....no dark spectacles, rounder than round turbans, shining clothes cholas of the best silks, money/goluck/gifts of gold and jewels/electronic stuff at his feet...ladies lining up to matha tek and get blessings...and HUGE DERAS with basements. security cameras, armed guards, grandiose "marble Gurdwaras that are PERSONAL PROPERTY of the SANT and NOT owned by the SANGAT..etc etc..the HALLMARKS of ALL those who are known as "SANTS". Bhagat pooran Singh followed in the footsteps of His GURU..Guru Arjun Ji sahib....living SIMPLY, feeding all he had to the poor and the unfortunate among us..WRITING and PUBLISHING small pamphlets on RECYCLED PAPER on conservation....Gurbani, Truthful LIVING...etc etc which no other SANT has even attempted despite the tons of donations they receive. No one can dispute any "title" being bestowed on Pooran Singh..he can be Sant..he can be Bhagat..he can be saadh..He can be Gurmukh...any and ALL titles apply equally to this highly SIKH SOUL..SAAS GRAASS naam jappan wala naam rassiah SEWAPANTHI SIKH . His Pingalwarra is the only such institution running today doing such wonderful sewa of the unfortunate and underprivileged....he singlehandedly began and ran this huge welfare institution until the day he died...."earning" his keep by the honest labour and using all donations, money earned from pamphlets etc for teh pingalwarra. With the hundreds of thousands of SANTS and DERAS why doesnt Punajb/India have any more Pingalwarras...hopsitals for the poor...schools..colleges...where the "SANT" is NOT CENTRE STAGE 150% of the time ??? I know many "sants" run schools/colleges/academies...BUT in each adn every picture that appears in the PRESS/RadioTV/ etc the "SANT" is centre stage....Baba ji doing this..Baba Ji Doing that..Baba ji..Baba Ji..Baba ji...not a word about PRIME BABA JI....THE one and ONLY SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE !!! when in actual fact SGGS is the FOUNTAIN HEAD of EDUCATION...caring for the Sick...anything and everything a Sikh can and should do. A certain group of retired Civil Servants who have turned into BABA JIS...and have opened ACADEMIES all over Punjab in a matter of 3 years or less...BUT they too activley PROMOTE the ex civil servants turned BABAS as the BeALL and EndALL of their Academies..when the Human Babbas should be subservient to GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE !!
4. I have absolutley NOTHING agisnt any Baba/Sant..present or past...How could I double guess anyone elses spirituality/state of Gurmatt consciousness ?? But we can and must rely on the "Gurbani Touchstone"...and IF even a Sant or "Brahmgiani" says or writes soemthign that FAILS this TEST..then he fails. Period. Inder Singh Ghaggha has artilces written on the website of www.sikhmarg.com - where he openly challenges more than 100 "Failures" of Sant gurbachan Singh Ji of Damdami taksaal. In the Book Gurmatt Paath darshan Sant ji states these 100++ "facts" which are not as per Gurbani/SGGS....according to Prof Ghaggha Ji who quotes GURBANI to substantiate his views.. All these can be verified- as we have both the Gurbani of SGGS plain and simple and Sant jis book. I could never hope to reach the "Brahmgiani" status of Sant ji...BUT my one and Only Guru is SGGS in which I have infinite Faith as the Ultimate Spiritual GUIDE for me...thus i dont need any human sant no matter how highly developed (others are welcome to avail themsleves of that - no objections from me).
5. I DONT BUY the "nanksari " arguments on why they dont have Guru Ka Langgar. Nishan Sahibs and GURDWARAS preferring to call their places THAATHS. BTW all these "Thaaths" are NOT SANGAT PROPERTY...as in the case of GURDWARAS worldwide. As we all know GURU NANAK JI began the GURU KALanggar Pratha (tradition) - this is one of the PILLARS on whcih the Mansion of SIKHI Stands..to carry out WANDCHHAKO injunction of Gurmatt. NISHAN SAHIBS are used to IDENTIFY SIKH GURDWARAS worldwide...JHOOLTEY NISHHAN RAHEN PANTH MAHARAJ KE...is one of the battle cries jaikaras of Sikhs....the Nishan Sahib guarantees Safe haven in the presence of SGGS...and more importantly the Nisahn sahib shows the PANTH SOLIDARITY....thus anyone who wants to BREAK this Solidarity would be...doing exactly what the nanaksari thaaths do...DISCARD the NISHHAN SAHIB that identifies THE PANTH.

Warmest regards to all..

Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Sant is for Guru - Jarnail Singh never claimed himself a guru. If he did, then he should not be recognised as a Sikh. Yes, he was a good strategist and an up-coming politician.

Gur Darshan Sant Piyare Jio - what does this mean ?

Naam japp Ji, Gurfateh.
You have a valid point.

This is the reason why Guru ji...has put GUR in front of SANT....its not just sant..BUT GURSANT !! Guru and Sant for Guru Arjun Ji is GUru RAMDASS JI...and the preceeding Gurus sahibanns Guru Amardass Ji, Guru Angad Ji and Guru nanak ji Sahib.
For US..today this GURSANT is SGGS.

What we need is GURBANI VICHAAR to decipher exactly the teachings of the Gursant..but many go for the literal superficial wordings of Gurbani and thus run afetr human dehdharee "sants" while also paying lip service to SGGS. TO each and every "sant" follower..the dehdharee SANT is more vital than the SGGS...they will come to blows to "defend" their patron sant !! In actual FACT Gurbani places no importance on the DEH at all....but many even place the restrictions of the DEH on the SHABAD GURU..they feel that the SGGS "feels" cold in winter ( needing thick rumallahs)..and feels hot in summer (needing thin rumallahs)....sggs also needs air conditioners, fans, heaters etc etc !!! The "Deh dharee Sants" are the main culprits behind the spread of such myths...under guise of "satikaar" of SGGS when TRUE SATIKAAR of SGGS is UNDERSTANDING the GURBANI and following it in daily LIFE !!
I used to have a friend who was a fanatic supporter of "airconditioning" the Sach Khand - actually SUKHASSAN ROOM...heat etc to SGGS !! BUT when ever there was a powerfailure...he wouldnt go in and FAN SGGS !!! He preferred to go to the Kotha to cool off !! (his own huge deh )
Regards

Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

PK70 Ji, Beautifully put. i agree 150% !!

REGARDS

 

[pk70]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International


Namjap ji and Gyani Jarnail singh ji

I applaud your views on Sant/ Babas/ Dehdhari gurus.
When we have Guru Granth Sahib to guide us all the time why should we look for dehdharis? Real devoted high spiritual gursikhs are not even known to many. I have witnessed it. If teachings of Guru Granth Sahib cannot help us, no sant can either; it is within to look into. Sadh Sangat is that where inspiration of His Nam is infused( M-1),an environment in which His Nam blossoms, all sant shows are staged to milk money, grasp power. All we see around are those show - money making tactics. I bow to the great Sant of this century" Bhagat Puran Singh ji Pingarwale. I wish I could hug him, unfortunately I was not lucky enough !!!!!"

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Namjap ji and Gyani Jarnail singh ji

I applaud your views on Sant/ Babas/ Dehdhari gurus.
When we have Guru Granth Sahib to guide us all the time why should we look for dehdharis? Real devoted high spiritual gursikhs are not even known to many. I have witnessed it. If teachings of Guru Granth Sahib cannot help us, no sant can either; it is within to look into. Sadh Sangat is that where inspiration of His Nam is infused( M-1),an environment in which His Nam blossoms, all sant shows are staged to milk money, grasp power. All we see around are those show - money making tactics. I bow to the great Sant of this century" Bhagat Puran Singh ji Pingarwale. I wish I could hug him, unfortunately I was not lucky enough !!!!!"

I WASNT fortunate enough to hug him either...never saw him...only came to know him and his work after he was long gone..when the Pingalwara authorities sent me a parcel of all his works.... .now try and make up for it by giving my daswandh to his institution the Pingalwarra. People should make it a point to go visit the pingalwara when in Amritsar..and see the true legacy of a true bahagat....not "hidden"..not "Gupt"..and not constantly in public eye either !!..just pure selfless sewa and nothing else...

Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Gurfateh

Well when we talk about some people standing 100 behind Guru Granth Sahib Ji,often these guys bring out very low level interpetaion of Guru Granth Sahib Ji as if it is based upon dulistic matterialism of karl marx(term is Dvandatmak Bhautik wad in hindi). As we are aware that Duja Bhav is something far away from Gurmat.
Few Examples
1.As per them Dhur Ki Bani(or verse from Base/pole ie Akal) is meant ,not to be from God but it means this is verses which are true in all time(incidently as per scince time is a false/realtive things,when das proved this thing to missionaries,they did not understand this thing at all as they were not scince backgorund but at the most graduate and that also in Punajbi etc.)
2.As per them Duja bhav means greed for Maya(Mammon),while Duja Bhav means to have faith in existance of anything else then Akal.Other name is Dutiya Bhav.
3.As per them Guru Granth Sahib Ji(and thier explantion based upon marxist dulisitc matterialism) is supereme Guru.They do not recoganse God and thats what they send SMS's to das from term Satiguru refered to Akal,they tell it for our Ten Gurus and then Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.As per marxism,Peple line Lenin,Mao,stalin or commmunist manfesto is the supereme.
4.They are always very keen to point our discoverise made about natural sceinces in Guru Granth Sahib.They totaly igone the classsical work of inventions done by Tenth Master in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.When das asks them the reason behind the discoveris,the methodology adopted by Gurus to discover(where were the labs etc?) they have no answer.Das has answer that it was devotion and relaisation of truth due to devotion for one who only is true.And that also by will of that who is true that Gurus came with the discoveries.But as a scintist,das always tells Sikhs or Muslims guys to desits from relay on western discoverises as often as we proceeded with newer descoveries due to enhancement of technologiies.We find that old theory was false and newer theory is better(no theory is ever best).Best Example as brother DR Khalsa can give is that newer finding about Aids that ,it may nont be an old virus but combination of viruses.
5.Lastly people relying upon dulsitic matterialism are the most illogical(while they claim to be moving upon scintific logic/Communst call it Scentific temper).As logic is based upon axiom,which are illogical.Then logic is one of the Hindu philosophy of Nayay,upon which Arya Samaj is based and upon same Nayay did Gyani Bhag Singh Ji ambala wrote some new defination of Auo Sikh Satiguru Ke Pyario and used term Nayay in there(he was an Arya Samaji before conversion).

Using logic over symblism and taking things in littral things ruins the truth.Das will only use one of their methodology of interpetation.It will be proven.

So Kyo Manda Akhiye Jin Jame Rajan.Why call that Bad who gave birth To Kings.They treat it as pro feminst statment by Guru.It litteraly means that why to call that Bad,who gave birth to kings.By thier logic, we are been prevented by Guru from desisting to say evil for those who give birht to more then one king.Ie Mother of one then one king.

Thier attack on Banis outside Guru Granth Sahib Ji gets extended in Bhatt Bani and Bhagat Bani.Later they move to undermine Holyness of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Thie reason to attack devinity is,there with the fact that,Sikhism is the only idelogy perfect to ****er socialism.So by eating it out after intruding in them,they will make socialism safe.Das can elaborate that how we are better then socialism.RSS intrusion etc. are more a way to let people be afraid of some hidden enemy(maybe they themselves acting as a hidden enmey are using the same modus operandi as they balme RSS for) or making Sants etc scrap goat is a way to put curtion above the own misdeeds.

Das is not giving the clean chit to RSS or Sants.But these SSI Canada are no were less fundamentalists,then say AKJ or DDT.As we see that cadres of MCC are dye hard commited to thier ideology,be it in India or in Nepal.

How will they end,Das has seen the start of thier end.Only yhing das could say about them is thier end is not from outside.Some aggresive idiots,who were first in DDT,then moved to AKJ,making them weak,have now joined these missionaries.Die hard missionaries,who spent all thier life,are been side lined and are in delima.

As Bhai Rajkhalsa knows.BJP is defeated not by congress but by RSS cadres why? as RSS workers who are in BJP for decades are super ceded by new entrants from congress.Similar temdency has started in missionaries.Das hopes that complex mind of das gave info as clear as it could be.Akal Bless.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Anysikh,who is one with Akal,has attained salvation while being alive or is Khalsa,is saint.
But such people very few in Kaliyuga.There could be more of an imposters.

What should be the test?

One who tells to do good is an imposter as he trys to be be guide.

one who tells to surrender to the will of God.Should be respected.

But that person also should not be worshipped.Only if Akal has mercy on us,will we attain Khalsa hood.Franckyl speaking many Anti Sants could be moved nearer to Sant hood by Akal.

Das initally use to feel that Santism is Hindu thing in Panth.But Saints are there in orthodox and catholic also.In Sufis also.But one qustion in this regard,in our case are they not due to hindu influence.Or any differance between the Hindu and Sikh saints?There are very less differance betyween sufi and Hindu Saints yet there is a great diffrance between Hindus and Catholics?

Answers needed.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Truth about Canadian Singh Sabha and Singh Sabha International

Gyani ji

Thank you for the information that points out why the title of this thread is unfortunate. The information below, reported by Gyani ji , may set the record straight.

quoted material AAd ji has tried her very best to pull this thread from going overboard/sunk due to bad titling.
1. The Singh Sabha international is a US based Organsiation( Roseville California) that publishes the monthly Bulletin "sikh Bulletin". The Founder of this Organsiation had very bad personal experience with one of the worst "Modern thugghs aka sants..called Sant baba AMARSINGH of Burundi NANAKSAR". This Sant had cheated him out of vast piece of land/buildings in the name of "Sikhi"...and was forced to give it all back after a lengthy court case. This sant is also one of those SANTS Permanently BANNED from entering MALAYSIA since the early 1970's due to serious charges. Singh Sabha International Blog... AND Welcome to Singh Sabha International Canada the
The Sikh Bulletin: November-December 2007. end quote

The title and some of the other reported content of this thread is factually and historically false, most unfortunate.

Please forgive any embarrassment Members of Singh Sabha International that the thread may cause you.

 

[Admin]

Re: Who is a True Sant?

Admin Note:

Dear Sunsingh Ji,

Thread title has been generalised to avoid sect bashing... please get your information right before starting such a thread against active sikh organisations. This is a friendly warning...

To reinterate aad0002 Ji point, SPN apologies for any embarrassment members of Singh Sabha International that the thread may cause you.

Gurfateh

SPN Administration

 

[sunsingh]

Gurfateh

Anysikh,who is one with Akal,has attained salvation while being alive or is Khalsa,is saint.
But such people very few in Kaliyuga.There could be more of an imposters.

What should be the test?

One who tells to do good is an imposter as he trys to be be guide.

one who tells to surrender to the will of God.Should be respected.

But that person also should not be worshipped.Only if Akal has mercy on us,will we attain Khalsa hood.Franckyl speaking many Anti Sants could be moved nearer to Sant hood by Akal.

Das initally use to feel that Santism is Hindu thing in Panth.But Saints are there in orthodox and catholic also.In Sufis also.But one qustion in this regard,in our case are they not due to hindu influence.Or any differance between the Hindu and Sikh saints?There are very less differance betyween sufi and Hindu Saints yet there is a great diffrance between Hindus and Catholics?

Answers needed.

All religions have sants. It seems to me that many sants in the Hindu dharm set themselves up as gurus, and this is accepted by Hindus as ok. In our religion the true sants are always subservient to the Guru and lead people to the Guru's feet. Even if one reaches bhramgyan (stage of being one with God and Guru), they still are the Guru's sikh.

In the Catholic religion they have saints, and one is considered a saint if recognised as such by the Church. there are many Sikhs who are saints (have a saintly heart, saintly behaviour), however few are sants. Sant is a very high spiritual stage, whereas saint is not dependant upon avastha. The word saint is often used in the english translation of sant which adds to the confusion.

 

[sunsingh]

Re: Who is a True Sant?

Admin Note:

Dear Sunsingh Ji,

Thread title has been generalised to avoid pinpointed bashing... please get your information right before starting such a thread against active sikh organisations. This is a friendly warning...

To reinterate aad0002 Ji point, SPN apologies for any embarrassment members of Singh Sabha International that the thread may cause you.

Gurfateh

SPN Administration

With all due respect, they host the video on their website, clearly they are giving support to those who promote these views.
I am still not convinced that SSI does not hold these views. Please show me how they do not hold these views, as I am interested in learning more about them.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Who is a True Sant?

sunsingh ji

Both Gyani ji and I have explained this many times now right in this thread.

Yesterday I placed a phone call to Canada to talk to people involved in this organization.

It is a respectable organization that backs a wide variety of informational resources about Sikhi.

Not only is the founder of Singh Sabha International all about protecting the innocent public, because he was once harmed by a fake baba, but the people who support the organization and do seva for that organization, in many cases were themselves harmed by fake babas. The video is a Nanaksar produced video. SSI - Canadia has put it on the site to WARN people.