Gurus Was Guru Nanak God?

[mehar singh]

lol contradiction, aint it?:}{}{}: or hypocritical?


Lol there you go! perfect answer!! I am God, you are God, he is God, she is God, everything is God!! :happy:

Dear Bhagat Singh,
Very sorry that you ridicule my statement .The reason i said who are we to judge is because we have not and cannot reach where guru Nank Dev Ji were if you are as smart as them then question them if not no right to do so.If you say you are not then dont quote Gurbani for Sri guru Nanak Dev ji Wrote all those beautiful words.
Regards
Mehar singh

 

[BhagatSingh]

Dear Bhagat Singh,
Very sorry that you ridicule my statement .The reason i said who are we to judge is because we have not and cannot reach where guru Nank Dev Ji were if you are as smart as them then question them if not no right to do so.If you say you are not then dont quote Gurbani for Sri guru Nanak Dev ji Wrote all those beautiful words.
Regards
Mehar singh

Mehar Singh ji, I don't know. In school, my Biology professor is way smarter than me and yet I question him. Do I question him because I think he is smarter? NO

 

[mehar singh]

Dear Bhagat Singh Ji,
You question your teacher about things to do about biology.am i right?I am sure you dont ask him wether he is a teacher.Do you?If you do I am sure he get a little upset .Same way you dont ask these question unless you are a teacher or principle correct.Guru Angad Dev Ji never ever questioned Guru Nanak Dev Ji.But Guru Nanak two sons did.I am sure you know the sakhis.I am telling you for the good.Post questions that help better oneselves .Do not ask Questions ,that we as students have no right to ask.God willing you oneday reach that pinnacle of teacherhood where you can pose this question and answer it by yourself.
Regards
Mehar Singh

 

[spnadmin]

ਜੇਹਾ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਿਆ ਤੇਹੋ ਜੇਹਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
jaehaa sathagur kar jaaniaa thaeho jaehaa sukh hoe ||
As one knows the True Guru, so is the peace obtained.

ਏਹੁ ਸਹਸਾ ਮੂਲੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਭਾਉ ਲਾਏ ਜਨੁ ਕੋਇ ॥
eaehu sehasaa moolae naahee bhaao laaeae jan koe ||
There is no doubt at all about this, but those who love Him are very rare.

ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੧॥੪੪॥
naanak eaek joth dhue moorathee sabadh milaavaa hoe ||4||11||44||
O Nanak, the One Light has two forms; through the Shabad, union is attained. ||4||11||44||

Ang 30

 

[spnadmin]

ਆਈ ਪੰਥੀ ਸਗਲ ਜਮਾਤੀ ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ ॥
aaee panthhee sagal jamaathee man jeethai jag jeeth ||
See the brotherhood of all mankind as the highest order of Yogis; conquer your own mind, and conquer the world.

ਆਦੇਸੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਆਦੇਸੁ ॥
aadhaes thisai aadhaes ||
I bow to Him, I humbly bow.

ਆਦਿ ਅਨੀਲੁ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਨਾਹਤਿ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਸੁ ॥੨੮॥
aadh aneel anaadh anaahath jug jug eaeko vaes ||28||
The Primal One, the Pure Light, without beginning, without end. Throughout all the ages, He is One and the Same. ||28||

ਭੁਗਤਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਦਇਆ ਭੰਡਾਰਣਿ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਵਾਜਹਿ ਨਾਦ ॥
bhugath giaan dhaeiaa bhanddaaran ghatt ghatt vaajehi naadh ||
Let spiritual wisdom be your food, and compassion your attendant. The Sound-current of the Naad vibrates in each and every heart.

ਆਪਿ ਨਾਥੁ ਨਾਥੀ ਸਭ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਅਵਰਾ ਸਾਦ ॥
aap naathh naathhee sabh jaa kee ridhh sidhh avaraa saadh ||
He Himself is the Supreme Master of all; wealth and miraculous spiritual powers, and all other external tastes and pleasures, are all like beads on a string.
ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਵਿਜੋਗੁ ਦੁਇ ਕਾਰ ਚਲਾਵਹਿ ਲੇਖੇ ਆਵਹਿ ਭਾਗ ॥
sanjog vijog dhue kaar chalaavehi laekhae aavehi bhaag ||
Union with Him, and separation from Him, come by His Will. We come to receive what is written in our destiny.

Ang 6

 

[spnadmin]

ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਈਐ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ॥
jothee joth milaaeeai surathee surath sanjog ||
When one's light merges into the Light, and one's intuitive consciousness is joined with the Intuitive Consciousness,


ਹਿੰਸਾ ਹਉਮੈ ਗਤੁ ਗਏ ਨਾਹੀ ਸਹਸਾ ਸੋਗੁ ॥
hinsaa houmai gath geae naahee sehasaa sog ||
then one's cruel and violent instincts and egotism depart, and skepticism and sorrow are taken away.


ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਮੇਲੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ॥੨॥
guramukh jis har man vasai this maelae gur sanjog ||2||
The Lord abides within the mind of the Gurmukh, who merges in the Lord's Union, through the Guru. ||2||

Ang 21

 

[sarbjitpunjabi]

sadhsangat ji ,
sat siri akal.
to think upon , what one has studied is normal for a human but , while enjoying the fragrance of a flower , if one starts plucking the petals of a flower , he will destroy the very source of the fragrance - the flower itself . what everybody doing now - a - days is discussing gurubani like any other academic topic which has given numerous individual viewpoints -depending upon one`s perception of gurubani . for anybody , who is of the opinion that gurubani is guru and starts questioning his own guru , what can you say of him ?
the simple answer is that though he thinks gurubani as his guru but he does not know his guru .
IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR HIM TO LEARN GURUMUKHI , STUDY GURUBANI WHICH I QUOTE IN ENGLISH VERSION AS UNDER :
GURU KI MAHIMA KYA KAHA , GUR BIBEK SATSAR ,
UH AAD JUGAADI JUGO JUG PURA PARMESHAR .
SOME ONE ELSE MAY GIVE YOU GURUBANI VERSION OF THIS WHILE COMMENTING UPON MY COMMENT , I HOPE THAT HE WILL HE ABLE TO YOU WHAT IT MEANS BY AAD JUGAADI IS ? FOR ME IT MEANS THAT
1 . GURU WAS , IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE ON THE EARTH AND WILL ALWAYS BE AS GOD INCARANATION .
REST , MAY BE A MATTER OF OPINION THAT ONE PERCEIVE GURUBANI AS GURU ONLY OR DEHDHARI SATGURU CONCEPT OF OTHERS WHICH IS BASED UPON CHAUPAYEE SAHIB
' .. JAB AKARH KARAT HO KABHUN , TUMH MAIN MILT DEH DHARAT SABH HUN ."
because , gurubani `s validity was not limited to some stated period only but for each and every era to come . hence the guru always used to be in this world , is in this world and will alwyas be forever as puraparmeshawr .

SAT SIRI AKAL .

SARBJIT SINGH

 

[spnadmin]

sarbjitpunjabi ji

Neither to argue with you, nor to agree, nor to disagree -- but what do you think this line means? My question is sincere.

ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੧॥੪੪॥
naanak eaek joth dhue moorathee sabadh milaavaa hoe ||4||11||44||
O Nanak, the One Light has two forms; through the Shabad, union is attained. ||4||11||44||

Your comments above intrigued me. Your understanding of this verse would be welcome.

 

[sarbjitpunjabi]

aad002 ji ,
sat sri akal .
please , quote full saloka .
thank you .
sarbjit singh

 

[pk70]

sarbjitpunjabi jio
Sat Sree Akaal !
Hre is the complete Guru Shabad you quoted in your post, enjoy Guru given inspiration
ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਮੈ ਭਾਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਤੁਠੇ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਚੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥
ASA, Bani of Fifth Nanak
I have sought all the pleasures but none is equal to the pleasure of having the Lord. The True Master is obtained if Guru is pleased ( in essence)
(Kindly note down, two separate Entities (Guru and the Lord) are being discussed)
ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ = ਸਾਰੇ ਸੁਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ। ਹਰਿ ਜੇਵਡੁ = ਹਰਿ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਜੇਡਾ ਸੁਖ। ਤੁਠਾ = ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ। ਤੇ = ਤੋਂ, ਪਾਸੋਂ। ਸਚੁ = ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲਾ।੧।

(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਮੈਂ (ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਸੁਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਖੋਜ ਵੇਖਿਆ ਹੈ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਦੇ ਬਰਾਬਰ ਦਾ ਹੋਰ ਕੋਈ ਸੁਖ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ। ਤੇ, ਉਹ ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਮਾਲਕ-ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਹੋਏ ਹੋਏ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਹੀ ਮਿਲ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ।੧।

ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਆਪਣੇ ਸਦ ਸਦ ਕੁਰਬਾਨਾ ॥ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵਿਸਰਉ ਇਕੁ ਖਿਨੁ ਚਸਾ ਇਹੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਦਾਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
I am devoted and sacrificed to my Guru.. Grant me this gift that I may not forget NAAM even for a moment. (Pause)(in essence)
(Here again stress is on the Name of the Lord)
ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ = ਸਦਕੇ। ਨ ਵਿਸਰਉ = ਮੈਂ ਨਾਹ ਭੁਲਾਵਾਂ। ਚਸਾ = ਪਲ ਦਾ ਤੀਜਾ ਹਿੱਸਾ, ਬਹੁਤ ਥੋੜਾ ਸਮਾ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।

(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਮੈਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੋਂ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਕੇ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਸਦਾ ਕੁਰਬਾਨ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹਾਂ (ਮੈਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਸ ਹੀ ਅਰਜੋਈ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ-ਹੇ ਗੁਰੂ!) ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਦਾਨ ਦੇਹ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਇਕ ਖਿਨ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਭੀ ਇਕ ਚਸੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਭੀ ਨਾਹ ਭੁਲਾਵਾਂ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।

ਭਾਗਠੁ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ਹੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ ॥ ਸੋ ਛੂਟੈ ਮਹਾ ਜਾਲ ਤੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ॥੨॥
Only he is rich who has wealth of Lord’s name in the heart. He only is redeemed (rescued) from the big Maya-net, who keeps Guru Shabad in the heart.
(Again importance and value of Lord’s Name is stressed along with Guru Shabad that is the source of Lord-union)
ਭਾਗਠੁ = ਭਾਗਾਂ ਵਾਲਾ, ਧਨਾਢ। ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ = ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ। ਛੁਟੈ = ਬਚਦਾ ਹੈ। ਜਿਸ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ = ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਸਦਾ ਹੀ।੨।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਧਨ ਵੱਸਦਾ ਹੋਵੇ ਉਹੀ (ਅਸਲ) ਸ਼ਾਹੂਕਾਰ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਸਬਦ ਇਕ-ਰਸ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਰਹੇ ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦੇ) ਵੱਡੇ ਜਾਲ (ਵਿਚ ਫਸਣ) ਤੋਂ ਬਚਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ।੨।

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਹਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਸਤ ਸਰੁ ॥ ਓਹੁ ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦੀ ਜੁਗਹ ਜੁਗੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ॥੩॥
How can I express the praise of Guru, he is the ocean of the divine Truth. He is like the perfect Lord who was in prime, in the beginning of ages and will be ever.
(Here first Guru’s knowledge is compared to vastness of Ocean, then his virtues are compared to the Lord, this will be more clear through the following Guru Vaak, there is no hint about incarnation)
ਮਹਿਮਾ = ਵਡਿਆਈ। ਕਹਾ = ਕਹਾਂ, ਮੈਂ ਆਖਾਂ। ਬਿਬੇਕ ਸਤਸਰੁ = ਬਿਬੇਕਸਰੁ ਸਤਸਰੁ, ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦਾ ਸਰੋਵਰ, ਸਤ ਦਾ ਸਰੋਵਰ। ਬਿਬੇਕ = ਚੰਗੇ ਮੰਦੇ ਦੀ ਪਰਖ। ਸਤ = ਉੱਚਾ ਆਚਰਨ। ਓਹ = ਉਹ ਗੁਰੂ।੩।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਮੈਂ ਇਹ ਦੱਸਣ-ਯੋਗ ਨਹੀਂ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੇਡਾ ਵੱਡਾ (ਉੱਚ-ਆਤਮਾ) ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦਾ ਸਰੋਵਰ ਹੈ ਗੁਰੂ ਉੱਚੇ ਆਚਰਨ ਦਾ ਸਰੋਵਰ ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਉਹ ਪੂਰਨ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ (ਦਾ ਰੂਪ) ਹੈ ਜੇਹੜਾ ਸਭ ਦਾ ਮੁੱਢ ਹੈ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਜੁਗਾਂ ਦੇ ਆਦਿ ਤੋਂ ਹੈ ਜੇਹੜਾ ਹਰੇਕ ਜੁਗ ਵਿਚ ਮੌਜੂਦ ਹੈ।੩।

ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ਸਦ ਸਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮਨੁ ਰੰਗੇ ॥ ਜੀਉ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਧਨੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੈ ਸੰਗੇ ॥੪॥੨॥੧੦੪॥
(So what Guru says) contemplate on the Name of the Lord and remain drenched in His(Lord) love.( The Name of Lord we get from Guru) That Guru is Nanak’s soul and wealth and is ever with him.
(Please note it down, stress again is given on Lord’s Name, and the Guru that infuses it and keeps on path is expressed to be with, it includes Guru-blessings with and Guru Teachings in mind)
ਰੰਗੇ = ਰੰਗਿ, ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਨਾਲ। ਸੰਗੇ = ਨਾਲ, ਅੰਗ-ਸੰਗ।੪।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਦੇ ਰਹੋ, ਆਪਣੇ ਮਨ ਨੂੰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ-ਰੰਗ ਨਾਲ ਰੰਗੀ ਰੱਖੋ (ਇਹ ਨਾਮ ਮਿਲਣਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਹੀ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਗੁਰੂ) ਮੈਂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇ ਅੰਗ-ਸੰਗ ਵੱਸਦਾ ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਹੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦ ਹੈ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਹੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਧਨ ਹੈ।੪।੨।੧੦੪।
{ Sikhs are repeatedly advised to seek” congregation of true devotees, Gurmukh, saints" but no where Sikhs are advised to look for a “ Dehdhari Guru” if it were important, it would have been directed, add to it, calling” Bani Guru, Guru Hai Bani’ seals”the need of Guru” limited to Gurbani; Tenth Master by declaring” Pothi Sahib as Guru, made it certain that Sikhs do not need to search Guru in Body, One must remember that Gurbani is all about the Lord, and it enables Sikhs to battle within and follow Guru path just as” Guru in body can do; if still mind searches”Guru in body” Good Luck. }
Note. I won’t be able to continue this debate further for ten days as I am leaving, when I come back, I shall be glad to discuss it further if it is needed. THANKS

 

[spnadmin]

sarbjitpunjabi ji

Neither to argue with you, nor to agree, nor to disagree -- but what do you think this line means? My question is sincere.

ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੧॥੪੪॥
naanak eaek joth dhue moorathee sabadh milaavaa hoe ||4||11||44||
O Nanak, the One Light has two forms; through the Shabad, union is attained. ||4||11||44||

Your comments above intrigued me. Your understanding of this verse would be welcome.

See Post 145 for the saloka If you mean the entire shabad, then it is on Ang 21. Look it up! Or read what pk70 ji has written just before this. Thank you!

 

[rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in]

Dear Brother,

Guru Nanak was amongst the greatest prophets ever, no doubt about that. The correct verses which describes his greatness are in granth Sahib as :

गावहि सनकादि साध सिधादिक मुनि जन गावहि अछल छला ॥
Gāvahi sankāḏ sāḏẖ siḏẖāḏik mun jan gāvahi acẖẖal cẖẖalā.
Sanak and Brahma's sons, the Saadhus and Siddhas, the silent sages and humble servants of the Lord sing the Praises of Guru Nanak, who cannot be deceived by the great deceiver.

गावहि गुण बरन चारि खट दरसन ब्रहमादिक सिमरंथि गुना ॥
Gāvahi guṇ baran cẖār kẖat ḏarsan barahmāḏik simranth gunā.
The four castes and the six Shaastras sing His Glorious Praises; Brahma and the others contemplate His Virtues.

गावै गुण महादेउ बैरागी जिनि धिआन निरंतरि जाणिओ ॥
Gāvai guṇ mahāḏė­o bairāgī jin ḏẖi­ān niranṯar jāṇi­o.
Shiva, detached and beyond desire, sings the Glorious Praises of Guru Nanak, who knows the Lord's endless meditation.

त्रेतै तै माणिओ रामु रघुवंसु कहाइओ ॥
Ŧarėṯai ṯai māṇi­o rām ragẖūvans kahā­i­o.
In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

दुआपुरि क्रिसन मुरारि कंसु किरतारथु कीओ ॥
Ḏu­āpur krisan murār kans kirṯārath kī­o.
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

कलिजुगि प्रमाणु नानक गुरु अंगदु अमरु कहाइओ ॥
Kalijug parmāṇ Nānak gur angaḏ amar kahā­i­o.
In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.

महादेउ गुण रवै सदा जोगी जति जंगम ॥
Mahāḏė­o guṇ ravai saḏā jogī jaṯ jangam.
Shiva, the Yogis and the wandering hermits sing His Praises forever.

ब्रहमा गुण उचरै जिनि हुकमि सभ स्रिसटि सवारीअ ॥
Barahmā guṇ ucẖrai jin hukam sabẖ sarisat savārī­a.
His Praises are sung by Brahma, who created the entire universe by God's Command.

We can never find out that whether he was god himself or not, perhaps whats more important is that he left a method (sikhism) by which we can attain god.

 

[spnadmin]

Dear Brother,

Guru Nanak was amongst the greatest prophets ever, no doubt about that. The correct verses which describes his greatness are in granth Sahib as :

गावहि सनकादि साध सिधादिक मुनि जन गावहि अछल छला ॥
Gāvahi sankāḏ sāḏẖ siḏẖāḏik mun jan gāvahi acẖẖal cẖẖalā.
Sanak and Brahma's sons, the Saadhus and Siddhas, the silent sages and humble servants of the Lord sing the Praises of Guru Nanak, who cannot be deceived by the great deceiver.

गावहि गुण बरन चारि खट दरसन ब्रहमादिक सिमरंथि गुना ॥
Gāvahi guṇ baran cẖār kẖat ḏarsan barahmāḏik simranth gunā.
The four castes and the six Shaastras sing His Glorious Praises; Brahma and the others contemplate His Virtues.

गावै गुण महादेउ बैरागी जिनि धिआन निरंतरि जाणिओ ॥
Gāvai guṇ mahāḏė*o bairāgī jin ḏẖi*ān niranṯar jāṇi*o.
Shiva, detached and beyond desire, sings the Glorious Praises of Guru Nanak, who knows the Lord's endless meditation.

त्रेतै तै माणिओ रामु रघुवंसु कहाइओ ॥
Ŧarėṯai ṯai māṇi*o rām ragẖūvans kahā*i*o.
In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

दुआपुरि क्रिसन मुरारि कंसु किरतारथु कीओ ॥
Ḏu*āpur krisan murār kans kirṯārath kī*o.
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

कलिजुगि प्रमाणु नानक गुरु अंगदु अमरु कहाइओ ॥
Kalijug parmāṇ Nānak gur angaḏ amar kahā*i*o.
In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.

महादेउ गुण रवै सदा जोगी जति जंगम ॥
Mahāḏė*o guṇ ravai saḏā jogī jaṯ jangam.
Shiva, the Yogis and the wandering hermits sing His Praises forever.

ब्रहमा गुण उचरै जिनि हुकमि सभ स्रिसटि सवारीअ ॥
Barahmā guṇ ucẖrai jin hukam sabẖ sarisat savārī*a.
His Praises are sung by Brahma, who created the entire universe by God's Command.

We can never find out that whether he was god himself or not, perhaps whats more important is that he left a method (sikhism) by which we can attain god.

rajbot singhi,

This shabad is truly a good one for this thread. In fact, now that you have posted it here, I see it in a completely different way. His praises are sung --- and yet we cannot know the mind of the Creator. And you are saying we can be certain that Naanak left a method by which we can attain God.

God within Naanak; God within us.

 

[BhagatSingh]

where is that "shabad" from?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Dear Bhagat Singh Ji,
You question your teacher about things to do about biology.am i right?I am sure you dont ask him wether he is a teacher.Do you?If you do I am sure he get a little upset .Same way you dont ask these question unless you are a teacher or principle correct.Guru Angad Dev Ji never ever questioned Guru Nanak Dev Ji.But Guru Nanak two sons did.I am sure you know the sakhis.I am telling you for the good.Post questions that help better oneselves .Do not ask Questions ,that we as students have no right to ask.

thanks for completey twisting my statement :inca:this is what you said:

if you are as smart as them then question them if not no right to do so

to which i replied.
i never said "question if one is a teacher". Since you brought that up, we can, however, question one's ability to teach.

back to what I was saying, what we should encourage questions that arise from reading the material provided in our class and it is our RIGHT and RESPOSIBILITY as students to ask! otherwise, this leads to blind faith/memorization.

God willing you oneday reach that pinnacle of teacherhood where you can pose this question and answer it by yourself.
Regards
Mehar Singh

ok i can do that when i am teacher. but as a student I need to ask questions to obtain answers so that I do not fall in the trap of blind faith.

 

[spnadmin]

Bhagat ji,

The shabad is on Ang 1389, and is one of the Sava-yay by the Bhagat Kal. The bhagats, as you know, were monotheistic Hindus who over several generations praised the Sikh Guru's , acknolwedging the jyote dwelling within them.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Bhagat ji,

The shabad is on Ang 1389, and is one of the Sava-yay by the Bhagat Kal. The bhagats, as you know, were monotheistic Hindus who over several generations praised the Sikh Guru's , acknolwedging the jyote dwelling within them.

hmm it comes from the poet "kal" apparently.
well, I guess that's what hindus make out of it. Looking at it from their perspective, it would certainly seem that Nanak was an avatar of God. But just because they say Nanak was a great man doesn't mean he was. We must evaluate his actions and teachings according to his time period in order to be a judge of how great he really was. Without doing that we fall in to the trap of blind faith, once again.

 

[spnadmin]

hmm it comes from the poet "kal" apparently.
well, I guess that's what hindus make out of it. Looking at it from their perspective, it would certainly seem that Nanak was an avatar of God. But just because they say Nanak was a great man doesn't mean he was. We must evaluate his actions and teachings according to his time period in order to be a judge of how great he really was. Without doing that we fall in to the trap of blind faith, once again.

Bhagat ji

Two reactions.

1. Indeed the Hindu bhagats, Kal and others, sang the praises of our Gurus, using the vedantic concept of "avatar, embodiment, incarnation." Nonetheless, Guru Arjan Dev found their shabads consistent with his understanding of the basic tenets of Sikhism. So we are blessed to receive the Bani of the bhagats as equal to that of the Gurus.

The Sava-yay in large part are praises of Guru Ram Das, who attaining the jyote of Guru Nanak, is sometimes to referred to as Nanak when the baghat was in fact a contemporary of Guru Ram Das. The notion that carries through is that the Gurus, Nanaks I through X, and after Guru Gobind Singh, Nanak XI, are one and the same when speaking in the voice of the Satguru.

Guru Arjan Dev did not include all of their poetry, and this was true for both Hindu and Muslim bhagats.

2. Was Guru Nanak a great man? Who is going to conduct the independent evaluation of historical evidence and do the historical analysis? What will the credentials of that individual or group of experts be? How can we know they are experts? Should we gather together an archive of documents and works of scholarship here in the forum? It is difficult but not impossible to do this.

Since Guru Nanak is considered the founder of the 5th largest religion, a documented social activist and a moral philosopher, I am content to conclude that he was a person of significant importance in his time. A person of significant importance for all times. He was known to the Vatican, to Muslim schoalrs in Bagdad, and Persia. His is certainly someone of historical note. If eye-witness accounts are what you require, alas most of us cannot read or obtain Persian sources. Maybe a forum member can help us out with that. Certainly the writing of Macauliffe, because of his methods and tests of evidence, convinced me that Guru Nanak was a remarkable human being, a revolutionary, someone who was spiritually gifted, and a truly modern thinker. (Forum readers, please do not confuse Macauliffe with Trupp or McLeod.)

Simple faith is not blind faith, and faith of course is just that -- faith. All for now. Let's see what others wish to add.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Since Guru Nanak is considered the founder of the 5th largest religion, a documented social activist and a moral philosopher, I am content to conclude that he was a person of significant importance in his time. He was known to the Vatican, to Muslim schoalrs in Bagdad, and Persia. His is certainly someone of historical note. If eye-witness accounts are what you require, alas most of us cannot read or obtain Persian sources. Maybe a forum member can help us out with that. Certainly the writing of Macauliffe, because of his methods and tests of evidence, convinced me that Guru Nanak was a remarkable human being, a revolutionary, someone who was spiritually gifted, and a truly modern thinker. (Forum readers, please do not confuse Macauliffe with Trupp or McLeod.)

Simple faith is not blind faith, and faith of course is just that -- faith. All for now. Let's see what others wish to add.

If you call that bit of your post faith then no it is not blind faith. You have providing some level of reasoning to your "faith". You seem to obviously have looked at historical evidence at some level, and you have consciously/sub consciously analyzed it. Blind faith would be reading that verse and assuming (right away) that Guru Ram Das? was as great as the author says. The blindness is taken away immediately by viewing historical evidence with an open mind and a critical eye. I will reply to the rest when I get a chance.

on a side note: faith is a really broad topic apparently
Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - for further reading

a quote from the page "It is rational (albeit at a perhaps instinctive level) for the child to trust the parents in the absence of other sources of information, but it is also irrational to cling rigidly to everything one was originally taught in the face of countervailing evidence."

Substitue "Sikh" for child and "SGGS" for parents...

 

[spnadmin]

Bhagat Singh ji

Don't forget that I am a convert to Sikhism. The first glimpse was an intriguing moment of realization for me. Everything was fresh. So of course I read on with no end to my hunger. I have questions of course. One big one stewing right now, but not for this thread. Each discovery was completely amazing. My mind and my heart were convinced together. I made a conscious choice and had no experience with blind submission to the ShabadGuru beforehand. Yet I know what you are talking about. That also amazes me.

Can there really be such a thing as blind-submission to the ShabadGuru?