Gurus Was Guru Nanak God?

[rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in]

Dear Brother,

Off course god is within us and god was within Nanak as well, but its a matter of realization.

Nanak realized that god residing in his heart & overcame lust, anger & ego and we are expected to do the same.

Great Buddha & great swami vivekananda have said that Never trust anything since its written in a book. You have to follow the path yourself to believe it.

Follow the path prescribed by Nanak and see where it leads you. But it needs utmost devotion & great mental discipline.

Sikh gurus never claimed themselves to be god infact guru gobind singh even warned peoeple who will consider him god. They would go to hell said.

 

[spnadmin]

Dear Brother,

Off course god is within us and god was within Nanak as well, but its a matter of realization.

Nanak realized that god residing in his heart & overcame lust, anger & ego and we are expected to do the same.

Great Buddha & great swami vivekananda have said that Never trust anything since its written in a book. You have to follow the path yourself to believe it.

Follow the path prescribed by Nanak and see where it leads you. But it needs utmost devotion & great mental discipline.

Sikh gurus never claimed themselves to be god infact guru gobind singh even warned peoeple who will consider him god. They would go to hell said.

This is true rabjot_singh ji. Guru Gobind Singh did say this. So explain the difference. The jyote is the light within, the Divine light. Yet the Gurus are not God. What is your understanding?

Realize that I am trying to stimulate discussion, not start a controversy.

And, what do you think? Can deep faith in the Satguru ever be blind?

BTW I am a Kaur.

 

[rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in]

Dear Ma'am,

Don't worry dear it will not give rise to any controversy.

There is a general human tendency that whenever they see a great spiritual man (God realized man) they give him the title of god.

This perhaps was the case with many prophets (Like , krishna, buddha etc). Principles are more important than man itself.

To reach that state of elevation as attained by Nanak, Kabir, Buddha, Krishna, Christ one birth is not sufficient. These people have claimed that have taken birth many number of times before getting enlightment or before becoming perfect.

None of them ever claimed that they were gods. They were all messengers of the supreme. Guru or incarnate of god is one who liberate others from the Cycle of Birth & Death

You have to light that jyot in yourself. Its already there just have to discover it, not to invent it. Once you do that u will become like god u will become aware of everything around u and away from you as those great saints were. Nothing will be hidden from you. You will not have ego, lust , anger. U will become a perfect manifestation of the supreme.
This is the greatest aim of a human according to all religions.

Blind faith in satguru is essential but before that u have to make sure that your Guru is not blind. In short course of time u will understand that whether u are making any spiritual progress under the guidance of your guru or not. That will tell you how relevant is your guru for you

This reminds me of Great Swami Vivekananda who always showed disbelief towards his Guru Ramkrishnaparmahansa & use to counter his Guru's arguments with his Knowledge of Science & logic but ultimately he had to surrender to the will of God & his guru since he felt the inner urge to follow that path as shown to him by his guru.

 

[Randip Singh]

As explained to me.

A drop can be merged with the Ocean, but it cannot be the Ocean.

 

[Sikh80]

I am posting this line that speaks what Randip ji has stated as above.[/FONT]

swD mUriq guru ByitE nwnk imil swgr bUMd nhI An hyrw ]2]1]117] (827-18, iblwvlu, mÚ 5)

[I have met with Guru Nanak, the Embodiment of the Holy Saints. When the drop of water merges into the ocean, it cannot be distinguished as separate again. ||2||1||117||]
[/FONT]
But there are some other lines as well:[/FONT]

gurunwnku nwnku hir soie ]4]7]9] (864-19, goNf, mÚ 5)
Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9||

May be the translation......or may be something else.....I have no comments.
[/FONT]

 

[Astroboy]

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥
सोरठि महला ९ ॥
Soraṯẖ mėhlā 9.
Sorat'h, Ninth Mehl:

ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਦੁਖ ਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨਹੀ ਮਾਨੈ ॥
जो नरु दुख मै दुखु नही मानै ॥
Jo nar ḏukẖ mai ḏukẖ nahī mānai.
That man, who in the midst of pain, does not feel pain,

ਸੁਖ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਅਰੁ ਭੈ ਨਹੀ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਮਾਟੀ ਮਾਨੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
सुख सनेहु अरु भै नही जा कै कंचन माटी मानै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Sukẖ sanehu ar bẖai nahī jā kai kancẖan mātī mānai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
who is not affected by pleasure, affection or fear, and who looks alike upon gold and dust;||1||Pause||

ਨਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਨਹ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ ॥
नह निंदिआ नह उसतति जा कै लोभु मोहु अभिमाना ॥
Nah ninḏi▫ā nah usṯaṯ jā kai lobẖ moh abẖimānā.
Who is not swayed by either slander or praise, nor affected by greed, attachment or pride;

ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਆਰਉ ਨਾਹਿ ਮਾਨ ਅਪਮਾਨਾ ॥੧॥
हरख सोग ते रहै निआरउ नाहि मान अपमाना ॥१॥
Harakẖ sog ṯe rahai ni▫āra▫o nāhi mān apmānā. ||1||
who remains unaffected by joy and sorrow, honor and dishonor;||1||

ਆਸਾ ਮਨਸਾ ਸਗਲ ਤਿਆਗੈ ਜਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਰਾਸਾ ॥
आसा मनसा सगल तिआगै जग ते रहै निरासा ॥
Āsā mansā sagal ṯi▫āgai jag ṯe rahai nirāsā.
who renounces all hopes and desires and remains desireless in the world;

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਜਿਹ ਪਰਸੈ ਨਾਹਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਵਾਸਾ ॥੨॥
कामु क्रोधु जिह परसै नाहनि तिह घटि ब्रहमु निवासा ॥२॥
Kām kroḏẖ jih parsai nāhan ṯih gẖat barahm nivāsā. ||2||
who is not touched by sexual desire or anger - within his heart, God dwells. ||2||

ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਹ ਨਰ ਕਉ ਕੀਨੀ ਤਿਹ ਇਹ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥
गुर किरपा जिह नर कउ कीनी तिह इह जुगति पछानी ॥
Gur kirpā jih nar ka▫o kīnī ṯih ih jugaṯ pacẖẖānī.
That man, blessed by Guru's Grace, understands this way.

ਨਾਨਕ ਲੀਨ ਭਇਓ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਪਾਨੀ ॥੩॥੧੧॥
नानक लीन भइओ गोबिंद सिउ जिउ पानी संगि पानी ॥३॥११॥
Nānak līn bẖa▫i▫o gobinḏ si▫o ji▫o pānī sang pānī. ||3||11||
O Nanak, he merges with the Lord of the Universe, like water with water. ||3||11||

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh......

I request everybody to pls listen "what is Guru- Guru Kaun Hai" by professor Darshan Singh Ji...then there will not be too much confusion........

Its a zipped folder..contains other files like Sikh Di Pehchaan...etc...

zSHARE - PROF. DARSHAN SINGH JI.rar

Chardi Kala.......

 

[Josh martin]

dear ma'am,

don't worry dear it will not give rise to any controversy.

There is a general human tendency that whenever they see a great spiritual man (god realized man) they give him the title of god.

This perhaps was the case with many prophets (like , krishna, buddha etc). Principles are more important than man itself.

To reach that state of elevation as attained by nanak, kabir, buddha, krishna, christ one birth is not sufficient. These people have claimed that have taken birth many number of times before getting enlightment or before becoming perfect.

None of them ever claimed that they were gods. They were all messengers of the supreme. guru or incarnate of god is one who liberate others from the cycle of birth & death

you have to light that jyot in yourself. Its already there just have to discover it, not to invent it. Once you do that u will become like god u will become aware of everything around u and away from you as those great saints were. Nothing will be hidden from you. You will not have ego, lust , anger. U will become a perfect manifestation of the supreme.
This is the greatest aim of a human according to all religions.

Blind faith in satguru is essential but before that u have to make sure that your guru is not blind. In short course of time u will understand that whether u are making any spiritual progress under the guidance of your guru or not. That will tell you how relevant is your guru for you

this reminds me of great swami vivekananda who always showed disbelief towards his guru ramkrishnaparmahansa & use to counter his guru's arguments with his knowledge of science & logic but ultimately he had to surrender to the will of god & his guru since he felt the inner urge to follow that path as shown to him by his guru.

qft

 

[BhagatSingh]

Blind faith in satguru is essential but before that u have to make sure that your Guru is not blind. In short course of time u will understand that whether u are making any spiritual progress under the guidance of your guru or not. That will tell you how relevant is your guru for you

That sounded good when I first read it a year ago maybe because of how you started the post. But Josh's reply brought me back to the thread...
Blind faith hmm... ok let's assume blind faith in any teacher is a good thing.
How would you make sure your teacher is not "blind" when you are accustomed to blind faith yourself? When you believe in having blind faith on your teacher?
I dont buy the spiritual progress test simply because you could be fooled into thinking you are making such progress. To give a hash example, there was a cult in US and they basically used Spirituality as a synonym for sex. I am dead serious. These guys were f****** kids, and believed they were progressing spiritually.

You would need evidence not blind faith. Or you would need to be agnostic. Never become a believer (believer = someone with blind faith).


So now about teh topic. I think we have enough evidence that Guru Nanak is indeed a man. If you didn't have enough evidence, again agnostic is what you would be.
You are right to say that its a human tendency or a cultural tendency to call such people God. Even the Bhatts(is taht right?) in SGGS call Guru Sahib a God incarnate.
The Sufis were much more accurate to call him Rabb the Banda, man of God.

I for one think that Guru Nanak's "awesomeness" comes from his humaness. I used to sometimes imagine myself being on one of Guru Sahibs Udasis, and think to myself this is HARD. But Guru Sahib did it. He was just like me, a mere human and yet he did so much. I should follow in his steps are try harder to accomplish my goals.
Now imagine if he was God or God' messenger or something SUPERHUMAN. Then now it doesnt seem so special does it? I mean you are God you can do anything. 4-5 Udasis is a cherry on the cake!!! IF you're superman you could fly from one point to another. It requires NO EFFORT! WAs Guru Nanak LAZY?? NO
I think saying Guru Nanak is/was God is not only going against teh evidence but it creates a self defeating attitude, and it actually ends up making Guru Nanak Dev ji less awesome (to put it simply)!

I associate cultural tendencies also to those who say Guru nanak was God/His messenger but refused to perform miracles and lived like a human. :a19: These guys are just finding it hard to accept the evidence that they have presented to themselves.

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear All,

God does not take birth and in Sikh thought does not take human form or anthropomorphic. Guru Gobind Singh in Bachitar Natak says;

ਜੋ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕਿ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿਹੈ॥ ਮੋ ਕੌ ਦਾਸ ਤਵਨ ਕਾ ਜਾਨੋ ॥ ਯਾ ਮੈ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਰੰਚਪਛਾਨੋ ॥੩੨॥ ਮੈ ਹੋ ਪਰਮਪੁਰਖ ਕੋ ਦਾਸਾ ॥ਦੇਖਨਿ ਆਯੋ ਜਗਤ ਤਮਾਸਾ॥ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਗਤਿ ਕਹਾ ਸੋ ਕਹਿ ਹੌ ॥ ਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲੋਕ ਤੇ ਮੋਨਿ ਨ ਰਹਿਹੌ॥੩੩॥

Jo Hum Ko Parmeshar Uchar Hai. Tay Sabh Narak Kund Meh Par Hai. Mo Kou Das Tavan Ka Jano. Ja Mai Bhayd Na Ranch Pachano. Mai Ho Param Purakh Ko Dasa. Daykhan Aayo Jagat Tamasa. Jo Prabh Jagati Kaha So Keh Hou. Mirat Loak Tay Moan Na Reh Hou.

Those who would call me God they will fall in to the deep pit of hell. Know me as Its servant and nothing is other than truth in it. I am the humble servant of the Supreme Akal Purkh and have come to see the acrobatic play of the world. Whatever the Akal Purkh of the world said, I say the same unto you, and I cannot remain silent in this abode of death. -----DG, Page, 57

Hence AGGS/Guru are not God, but spiritually there is no difference between Guru/God/enlightened people as per AGGS;

ਬਡੇ ਭਾਗ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਹਿ ਅਪੁਨਾ ਭੇਦੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮੁਰਾਰ ॥
Badė bẖāg gur sėveh apunā bẖėḏ nāhī gurḏėv murār.

The most fortunate ones serve their Guru; there is no difference between the Divine Guru and the Akal Purkh. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gujri, AGGS, Page, 504-5

ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਵਿਰੋਲਿ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਹਮਦੇਖਿਆ ਇਕ ਵਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪ ਦਿਖਾਈ॥ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਵਿੰਦੁਗ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥
Samunḏ virol sarīr ham ḏėkẖi¬ā ik vasaṯ anūp ḏikẖā¬ī. Gur govinḏ govinḏ gurū hai Nānak bẖėḏ na bẖā¬ī.

I have churned the ocean of the body, and I have seen the incomparable thing come into view. The Guru is God, and God is the Guru, O Nanak; there is no difference between the two, O Siblings of Destiny. -----Guru Amardas, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 442-18

ਮਹਿਮਾ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ਗੁਰ ਸਮਰਥ ਦੇਵ ॥ਗੁਰ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਅਪਰੰਪਰ ਅਲਖ ਅਭੇਵ ॥
Mahimā kahī na jā¬ė gur samrath ḏėv. Gur pārbarahm parmėsur aprampar alakẖ abẖėv.

The Glory of the all-powerful Divine Guru cannot be described. The Guru is the Supreme God, the Transcendent Akal Purkh, infinite, unseen and unknowable. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gujri Ki Vaar, AGGS, Page, 522-14

ਦੂਜਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥
Ḏūjā nahī jānai ko¬ė. Saṯgur niranjan so¬ė.

Let no one think that God and Guru are separate. The True Guru is the Immaculate Akal Purkh. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 895-5

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਸੋ ਹਰਿ ਜੇਹਾ ॥ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਮਾਣਸ ਦੇਹਾ ॥ ਜਿਉ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਉਠਹਿ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਤੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਸਲਲੈ ਸਲਲ ਸਮਾਇਦਾ ॥

Har kā sevak so har jehā. Bẖeḏ na jāṇhu māṇas ḏehā. Ji-o Jal Tarang Utheh Baho Bhaatee Fir Sallai Salal Samaa-idaa.

The Akal Purkh's servant becomes like the It. Do not think that, because of his human body, he is different. The waves of the water rise up in various ways, and then the water merges again in water. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1076-3


ਇਹ ਪਧਤਿ ਤੇ ਮਤ ਚੂਕਹਿ ਰੇ ਮਨ ਭੇਦੁ ਬਿਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਨ ਬੀਅਉ ॥ ਪਰਤਛਿ ਰਿਦੈ ਗੁਰ ਅਰਜੁਨ ਕੈ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਲੀਅਉ ॥
Ih paḏẖaṯṯė maṯ cẖūkeh rė man bẖėḏ bibẖėd na jān bī¬a¬o. Parṯacẖẖ riḏai gur arjun kai har pūran barahm nivās lī¬a¬o.

O mortal being, do not leave this path; do not think that there is any difference between God and Guru. The Perfect God has manifested It self; and dwells in the heart of Guru Arjan.

ਭਨਿ ਮਥੁਰਾ ਕਛੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਨਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਅਰਜੁਨੁ ਪਰਤਖ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਹਰਿ ॥
Bẖan mathurā kacẖẖ bẖėḏ nahī gur arjun parṯakẖ¬y har.

So speaks Mat'huraa: there is no difference between God and Guru; Guru Arjan is the Personification of the Akal Purkh It self. -----Bard Mathura, Swaeyea Mahla 5, AGGS, Page, 1409-5 & 12

ਬੀਸ ਬਿਸੁਏ ਜਾ ਮਨ ਠਹਰਾਨੇ ॥ਗੁਰ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਏਕੈ ਹੀ ਜਾਨੇ ॥
Bīs bisu¬ė jā man ṯẖehrānė. Gur pārbarahm ėkai hī jānė.

When the mind is totally held in check, one sees the Guru and the Supreme God as one and the same. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 877-14

ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋਧੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ॥ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਹੀ ਭੇਦ ॥

Nānak soḏẖė simriṯ bėḏ. Pārbarahm gur nāhī bẖėḏ.

Nanak has studied the Simritees and the Vedas. There is no difference between the Supreme God and the Guru. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Bhairo, AGGS, Page, 1142-8

ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂ ਕਰਣੈਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗੁਰ ਅਗਮ ਅਪਾਰ ॥

Sabẖ kicẖẖṯėrā ṯū karṇaihār. Pārbarahm gur agam apār.

Everything is Yours, O Creator Akal Purkh. The Guru is the Supreme God, the Inaccessible and Infinite. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Bhairo, AGGS, Page, 1149-17

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਇਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਚਾ ਸਾਹੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਬਣਜਾਰਾ ॥

Gur Parmaysar Ik Hai Sacha Saah Jagat BaNjara.

The Guru and God are One; It alone is the true Master and the whole world craves for It.----Bhai Gurdas, Vaar 1, Pauri, 17-7

ਸੰਤਾ ਕਉ ਮਤਿ ਕੋਈ ਨਿੰਦਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਰਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਏਕੋੁ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਮੈ ਸੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਨਾਉ ਬਿਬੇਕੋੁ ॥

Sanṯā ka¬o maṯ ko¬ī ninḏahu sanṯ rām hai ėko, Kaho Kabīr mai so gur pā¬i¬ā jā kā nā¬o bibėko.

Let no one slander the Saints, because the Saints and the Akal Purkh are as one. Says Kabir, I have found that Guru, whose Name is Clear Understanding (Gnosis). -----Kabir, Raag Suhi Lalit, AGGS, Page, 793-11

ਸਾਧਿਕ ਸਿਧ ਲਖੈ ਜਉ ਭੇਉ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਦੇਉ ॥

Sāḏẖik siḏẖ lakẖai ja¬o bẖė¬o, Āpė karṯā āpė ḏė¬o.

When the strivers and holy seekers come to know the secret of Akal Purkh's mystery, they themselves become the Creator; they themselves become the Divine God. -----Kabir, Raag Gauri Thiti, AGGS, Page, 343-4

Conclusion;

ਨਾ ਹਮ ਚੰਗੇ ਆਖੀਅਹ ਬੁਰਾ ਨ ਦਿਸੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੀਐ ਸਚੇ ਜੇਹੜਾ ਸੋਇ ॥
Nā ham cẖange ākẖī▫āh burā na ḏisai ko▫e. Nānak ha▫umai mārī▫ai sacẖe jehṛā so▫e.

I am not called good, and I see none who are bad. O Nanak, one who conquers and subdues his ego, becomes just like the True Akal Purkh. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1015-13

ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੇ ਕਿਨੇਹਿਆ ॥ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਮੂਲਿ ਸਾਂਈ ਜੇਹਿਆ ॥

Jinĥā na visrai nām sė kinėhi¬ā. Bẖėḏ na jāṇhu mūl sāʼn¬ī jėhi¬ā.

What are they like - those who do not forget the Naam, the Name of the Akal Purkh? Know that there is absolutely no difference; they are exactly like the God. -----Guru Arjan. Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 397-17

ਰਵਿਦਾਸੁ ਭਣੈ ਜੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ਸੰਤ ਅਨੰਤਹਿ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ॥

Raviḏās bẖaṇai jo jāṇai so jāṇ.Sanṯ anaʼnṯeh anṯar nāhī.

Says Ravidas, he alone is wise, who knows that there is no difference between the Saints and the Infinite Akal Purkh. -----Ravidas, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 486-13

Cordially,

Virinder S. Grewal

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh..........

I agree with Virinder S. Grewal Ji....

There is no difference between GOD and Guru. After a stage you will not see a differnce between GOD and Guru...and again reaching up one more stage..you will not see a differnce between you and Guru...then once you will reach the final stage (Gurmukh Brahmgyani)..there will not be any difference between you and GOD....

but one thing to remember...you are not GOD...dont be proud....you should respect GOD as GOD and dont compare yourself ............

Guru and God is Shabd...and you will find many examples in Gurbani and even in ithihaas (history) of Guru Ji's Udaasi...he never used to eat for many days.

Chardi Kala........

 

[palaingtha]

i just got home from the local Gurdwara, and there there was a sikh from England who claimed that Guru Nanak was God himself.... i thought he was ridiculous and went home to research and found these verses.

Page 136, Line 10
ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਆਰਾਧਿਆ ਦਰਗਹ ਸਚਿ ਖਰੇ ॥
हरि गुरु पूरा आराधिआ दरगह सचि खरे ॥
har gur pooraa aaraaDhi-aa dargeh sach kharay.
Those who meditate on the Perfect Guru, the Lord-Incarnate-they are judged true in the Court of the Lord.
Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

[/SIZE]Page 306, Line 14
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਫਲ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥੨॥
नानक सेवा करहु हरि गुर सफल दरसन की फिरि लेखा मंगै न कोई ॥२॥
naanak sayvaa karahu har gur safal darsan kee fir laykhaa mangai na ko-ee. ||2||
O Nanak, serve the Guru, the Lord Incarnate; the Blessed Vision of His Darshan is profitable, and in the end, you shall not be called to account. ||2||
Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


and there are propbably also others..

it this true ? was Guru Nanak and the others God?.

if if they were, who were they praying to? If their prayers were just God showing how a prayer should be done, it means that their Prayers were empty rituals as God can not pray to God, since there is only One God.

The Guru's slept, ate, had children etc..does this mean that God is limited as a human being who needs sleep, rest, etc??

i cant make this work...seriously..how could Guru Nanak have been God?:shock:


[/SIZE]

Amardeep ji,
Gur fateh.

When we can get the answer to the entity of God the creator in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantar, then why wander in search of the real meaning of God and Guru.

JAPJI SAHIB

PRIMAL HYMN


GOD is One the only (Supreme Being),

Eternal Truth( is His) Name (in reality), (Is) the Creator all of creatures and things,

(Is) Fearless, Sans enmity,

(Is) Timeless, Ageless Divinity,

(Has) Birthless existence

(And) Self Nascent Entity,

(One) is Enlightened through Guru’s benevolence.

The words in brackets are the author's inserted to get meaningful translation.



Guru Nanak Ji says, GOD is one, ........ time less, age less, ......birthless ..... self nascent entity.

So, Guru Nanak is not GOD HIMSELF.

Many of our brethern Sikhs have not cut the umbilical cord from Hinduism and their thinking. We don't believe Mythology. Some Sikhs find satisfaction in surrounding our Gurus Stories with MYTHS thinking by this way they are elevating the status of Gurus. The Gurus need no fictitious supports; they are eminent personages.
So the crux of the matter is none of our Gurus ever claimed to be GOD as someone said in your presence. Guru Arjan Dev ji said, let the tongue be burned who says God ever takes birth.
Guru Gobind Singh Ji questions "Krishna", "If you say you are God then why you are born of a women, Mata Devki, and call Basdev, father?
The Bhatts have in their writings praised Gurus with similes of God but comparisons does not express to be real. It is for the sake of praise. If we say "Maha Raja Ranjit Singh was a Lion", we mean he was brave like lion. We don't say from his human body he changed to a creature, a lion. The Bhatts wanted to express the feelings of the Guru towards the humanity that showed benevolence like God Himself. .