I believe that he is in everyone, but becoming one like merging, I believe can only be done if one becomes the very image of the lord himself, where one can tell no difference between the lord and his servant. Kinda like a droplet merging in the water. One can't distinguish the droplet from the water.
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I think this is one of the most important facets of Bani, and as we seem to have come from similar backgrounds, maybe you will understand my feelings, you and I come from a background of drugs, sex, self self, I feel that in you, I sense it strongly, that is not who we are, we are bigger than that, but it is easy to fool yourself into fighting it, trying to destroy it, doing anything possible so that the thoughts do not enter your head, so you are free from the howling, the screaming, a bit like the baba who refuses to be left alone with women, do not put temptation into your head, do not start the ball rolling, everything will be ok, pray, meditate, focus on god, and yes, the thoughts go away, but they do not vanish do they, no, they do not, they just hide until the effects wear off, or maybe it is a constant vigilance to keep them at bay, frankly I would rather be dead than live like this, life becomes a constant struggle, a battle between thieves and the truth.
So, again in my opinion, the way to the truth is not by closing your mind, it is by opening your mind, let the thieves out, embrace them, understand them, I am not suggesting you run riot snorting coke and fornicating, however, if you want a mercedes, then driving a ford just to spite thieves does not make anyone happy, what are the reasons for having the merc? to make others envious? because it makes you look important? pretty much the same thing, because you enjoy the way it drives, ok thats not too bad a reason, the point is, you can negotiate with the thieves, you can drive a mercedes, you can have a good sex life, you can be happy fulfilled but without entering into the trap of lust, ego et al, moderation is the key, and also common sense, its what marks out the balanced happy Sikh to the one that has renounced everything, or to the anarchist. We have to live, we have to work, we have lives, very real lives, all we have to do is see the world through true lenses, to not justify what we do for the self, and to see the truth as the highest platform to live by, although not always the easiest, in my opinion.
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but we are already merged, maybe that is why some of us struggle so,
I agree Harry Haller ji, we should first try to understand the thieves, in order the conquer them, I do believe if one conquered them, that he won't care if he rides in a Mercedes, Ford or a Camel/Horse.
I also do believe that lord is already in everyone(merged), what I meant was becoming the very picture of lord himself. And breaking the circle of life and death, thats what our Individual goal is. to get there it takes alot of effort, the first thing is realisation that we are being controlled by the thieves, second thing is fighting them and everyone has his own ways of doing that, I prefer sewa, sharing and meditation. And all this must be done without having in our mind that we want to free our self from the circle, cause thats attachment/greed, Like you've posted, I do believe that only with his grace you come to know him.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬੁਝਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥੨੦॥
गुर परसादी बुझि सचि समाईऐ ॥२०॥
Gur parsādī bujẖ sacẖ samā▫ī▫ai. ||20||
By Guru's Grace, one comes to know the True One, and is absorbed into Him. ||20||
I also do believe that lord is already in everyone(merged), what I meant was becoming the very picture of lord himself. And breaking the circle of life and death, thats what our Individual goal is. to get there it takes alot of effort, the first thing is realisation that we are being controlled by the thieves, second thing is fighting them and everyone has his own ways of doing that, I prefer sewa, sharing and meditation. And all this must be done without having in our mind that we want to free our self from the circle, cause thats attachment/greed, Like you've posted, I do believe that only with his grace you come to know him.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬੁਝਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥੨੦॥
गुर परसादी बुझि सचि समाईऐ ॥२०॥
Gur parsādī bujẖ sacẖ samā▫ī▫ai. ||20||
By Guru's Grace, one comes to know the True One, and is absorbed into Him. ||20||
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Guru Nanakji would not have cared, nor would Guru Gobind Singhji, Banda Bahadurji possibly would have and Maharaja Ranjitji is a definite!
We are not Gurus, we are people, we try our best, there is a fine line between being an ascetic and being a sensible Sikh. Maybe as we are not Gurus we cannot conquer them, maybe we are fools for putting off till the thieves are conquered what we could do as Sikhs today, maybe the thieves are something we have to keep in line with a view to conquering, but accepting the fact that we may die with them still intact, because if we do not, we may die unfulfilled and without the chance of giving this our best shot.
If the extent of your thievery is a new mercedes, if thats all it is, then I would say go out and but it and live your life in peace.
If however your thieves are the more destructive type, I dunno, something like drawing a sword on a fellow Sikh at a place of worship, and you can kid yourself that you are still true and good, because you don't drive a mercedes, well thats something else.
I have already broken the cycle of life and death, I am not scared of death, and when I am dead, I will be dead, my own individual goal is get to the point where giving without thought of reward becomes second nature, and I can worship Creator through assisting Creation as much as possible. That state, to me , is living truthfully, living for Creation, sure, I can listen to the self now and then, I can go out for a meal, I can go away for a dirty weekend with the wife, I can own a second hand Range Rover, but my priority, my reason for living, is to give.
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We cannot equal the Gurus, anyone who feels they can is deluded.
I think the bhagats in GGS ji, felt the same the Guru's felt. Atleast after reading stories, and gurbani in GGS ji, Also having read about Buddha, I think he felt the same. Apologies if I'm mistaken.
I know that we shouldn't try to aim to get beter then guru's or at there level, all we should aim for is following there teachings.
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Uhm well Buddha did not believe in God, and Sikhs believe in God, the name of which is the 'truth',
me? I would be content with being a student till I die, the desire to be better or equal to those whom I consider great is just not there, nor should anyone just blindly follow without understanding, its what, in my opinion, makes Sikhism different to the other religions, do this, do that, do not try and understand just have faith etc,
gur_meet
SPNer
This post which is critical of the previous post where a Shabad has been given gives a limited picture of what is and a different direction further on.
Let this Shabad be understood first in FULL. First the last line once again
which is
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬੁਝਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥੨੦॥
Gur parsādī bujẖ sacẖ samā▫ī▫ai. ||20||
By Guru's Grace, one comes to know the True One, and is absorbed into Him. ||20||
The last line of this pauri is the key to the direction and depth of the Shabad . This is because of the use of the word " ਬੁਝਿ " which means to look for and understand the true meaning .
Let us look at the meaning of the Shabad line by line.
Line 1 of Pauri.
ਜੀਵਦਿਆ ਮਰੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਨ ਪਛੋਤਾਈਐ ॥
While you are alive, conquer death, and you shall have no regrets in the end.
The translation of this line tells us to conquer death while alive. What do we die to while living?
You die while living when the self-identity set aside.It is also interpreted to mean you die towards maya (illusion). The spiritual state of being ' dead while living" is also the stage where Anhad Shabad is heard . Here are other pungtees where this is mentioned.
ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਸੰਕ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥ Anthar Kee Gath Jaaneeai Gur Mileeai Sank Outhaar ||
Know the state of your inner being; meet with the Guru and get rid of your skepticism.
ਮੁਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਿਤੁ ਜੀਵਦਿਆ ਮਰੁ ਮਾਰਿ ॥ Mueiaa Jith Ghar Jaaeeai Thith Jeevadhiaa Mar Maar ||
To reach your True Home after you die, you must conquer death while you are still alive.
ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੨॥ Anehadh Sabadh Suhaavanae Paaeeai Gur Veechaar ||2||
The beautiful, Unstruck Sound of the Shabad is obtained, contemplating the Guru. ||2||
ਅਨਹਦ ਬਾਣੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਹਉਮੈ ਹੋਇ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ॥ Anehadh Baanee Paaeeai Theh Houmai Hoe Binaas ||
The Unstruck Melody of Gurbani is obtained, and egotism is eliminated.
ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੧ page 21
Know the state of your inner being; meet with the Guru and get rid of your skepticism.
ਮੁਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਿਤੁ ਜੀਵਦਿਆ ਮਰੁ ਮਾਰਿ ॥ Mueiaa Jith Ghar Jaaeeai Thith Jeevadhiaa Mar Maar ||
To reach your True Home after you die, you must conquer death while you are still alive.
ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੨॥ Anehadh Sabadh Suhaavanae Paaeeai Gur Veechaar ||2||
The beautiful, Unstruck Sound of the Shabad is obtained, contemplating the Guru. ||2||
ਅਨਹਦ ਬਾਣੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਹਉਮੈ ਹੋਇ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ॥ Anehadh Baanee Paaeeai Theh Houmai Hoe Binaas ||
The Unstruck Melody of Gurbani is obtained, and egotism is eliminated.
ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੧ page 21
ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀਵਤਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਐਸਾ ਜੋਗੁ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥ Naanak Jeevathiaa Mar Reheeai Aisaa Jog Kamaaeeai ||
O Nanak, remain dead while yet alive - practice such a Yoga.
ਵਾਜੇ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਸਿੰਙੀ ਵਾਜੈ ਤਉ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ Vaajae Baajhahu Sinn(g)ee Vaajai Tho Nirabho Padh Paaeeai || When the horn is blown without being blown, then you shall attain the state of fearless dignity.
ਅੰਜਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਤਉ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੪॥੧॥੮॥ Anjan Maahi Niranjan Reheeai Jog Jugath Tho Paaeeai ||4||1||8||
Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||4||1||8||
ਸੂਹੀ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੩੦ page 730
Line 2 : O Nanak, remain dead while yet alive - practice such a Yoga.
ਵਾਜੇ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਸਿੰਙੀ ਵਾਜੈ ਤਉ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ Vaajae Baajhahu Sinn(g)ee Vaajai Tho Nirabho Padh Paaeeai || When the horn is blown without being blown, then you shall attain the state of fearless dignity.
ਅੰਜਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਤਉ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੪॥੧॥੮॥ Anjan Maahi Niranjan Reheeai Jog Jugath Tho Paaeeai ||4||1||8||
Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||4||1||8||
ਸੂਹੀ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੩੦ page 730
ਝੂਠਾ ਇਹੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਕਿਨਿ ਸਮਝਾਈਐ ॥
This world is false, but only a few understand this.
The Sansar (world) is false. The few who understand this also understand that the visible creation is also false. Here Guruji is talking about the sansar as in the next line Guru ji explains that :
Line 3 :
ਸਚਿ ਨ ਧਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ਧੰਧੈ ਧਾਈਐ ॥
People do not enshrine love for the Truth; they chase after worldly affairs instead.
Here the explianation is that worldly affairs prevent the person from enshrining Love for Sach ( truth) meaning the creator by knowing that behing the false front of the creation is the creator.
Line 4 and 5:
ਕਾਲੁ ਬੁਰਾ ਖੈ ਕਾਲੁ ਸਿਰਿ ਦੁਨੀਆਈਐ ॥
The terrible time of death and annihilation hovers over the heads of the world.
ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਿਰਿ ਜੰਦਾਰੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਦਾਈਐ ॥
By the Hukam of the Lord's Command, the Messenger of Death smashes his club over their heads.
Here the word used is " ਦੁਨੀਆਈਐ " but the translator has translated this as world . In the Dunia (world) the death hovers. It is a cycle of birth-life-death in the world. That is the Hukam. Only the person who knows Sach (truth) also knows that the body is subject to death . This body is biological - matter . ( Does the nonliving matter has an end. The science too has an explaination about creation - destruction.)
Line 6 , 7 & 8 :
ਆਪੇ ਦੇਇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਈਐ ॥
The Lord Himself gives His Love, and enshrines it within their minds.
ਮੁਹਤੁ ਨ ਚਸਾ ਵਿਲੰਮੁ ਭਰੀਐ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
Not a moment or an instant's delay is permitted, when one's measure of life is full.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬੁਝਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥੨੦॥
By Guru's Grace, one comes to know the True One, and is absorbed into Him. ||20||
These lines are together because of sequence. When the Karta ( creator) is enshrined in the mind the love is also there . This is gur parsad when turning away from the worldy affairs the person makes effort towards knowing the Sach(truth) through Guru. The change happens in an instant. The line 6 translation is weak hence being together.
This pauri has depth in meaning going beyond .The translation cannot capture this depth. The last line itself gives this hint .The simple translation is limiting.
Now let us look at Shabads that speak of created world:
ਏ ਨੇਤ੍ਰਹੁ ਮੇਰਿਹੋ ਹਰਿ ਤੁਮ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਧਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਕੋਈ ॥
Eae Naethrahu Maeriho Har Thum Mehi Joth Dhharee Har Bin Avar N Dhaekhahu Koee ||
O my eyes, the Lord has infused His Light into you; do not look upon any other than the Lord.
ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਕੋਈ ਨਦਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿਆ ॥ Har Bin Avar N Dhaekhahu Koee Nadharee Har Nihaaliaa ||
Do not look upon any other than the Lord; the Lord alone is worthy of beholding.
ਏਹੁ ਵਿਸੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਤੁਮ ਦੇਖਦੇ ਏਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਇਆ ॥ Eaehu Vis Sansaar Thum Dhaekhadhae Eaehu Har Kaa Roop Hai Har Roop Nadharee Aaeiaa ||
This whole world which you see is the image of the Lord; only the image of the Lord is seen.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬੁਝਿਆ ਜਾ ਵੇਖਾ ਹਰਿ ਇਕੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ Gur Parasaadhee Bujhiaa Jaa Vaekhaa Har Eik Hai Har Bin Avar N Koee ||
By Guru's Grace, I understand, and I see only the One Lord; there is no one except the Lord.
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਏਹਿ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਅੰਧ ਸੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਦਿਬ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੩੬॥ Kehai Naanak Eaehi Naethr Andhh Sae Sathigur Miliai Dhib Dhrisatt Hoee ||36||
Says Nanak, these eyes were blind; but meeting the True Guru, they became all-seeing. ||36||
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਅਨੰਦ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੨੨ ਪੰ. ੭
Here the word used is '' ਸੰਸਾਰੁ " translated as world. It is clear from the Shabad that the sansar ( world) here means the visible world. The advice of gurbani is to look as " Har Ka Roop " . To see creator in the creation and the oneness.
ਮਨ ਰੇ ਸਾਚਾ ਗਹੋ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥ Man Rae Saachaa Geho Bichaaraa ||
O mind, embrace true contemplation.
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਮਾਨੋ ਸਗਰੋ ਇਹੁ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Raam Naam Bin Mithhiaa Maano Sagaro Eihu Sansaaraa ||1|| Rehaao ||
Without the Lord's Name, know that this whole world is false. ||1||Pause||
ਜੈਤਸਰੀ (ਮ: ੯) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੦੩ ਪੰ. ੭
ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਰਚਨਾ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਸਗਲ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥
Baran Chihan Naahee Kishh Rachanaa Mithhiaa Sagal Pasaaraa ||
Nothing of the color and the form of the creation shall remain; the entire expanse is transitory.
ਭਣਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਬ ਖੇਲੁ ਉਝਾਰੈ ਤਬ ਏਕੈ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੪॥
Bhanath Naanak Jab Khael Oujhaarai Thab Eaekai Eaekankaaraa ||4||4||
Prays Nanak, when He brings His play to its close, then only the One, the One Lord remains. ||4||4||
ਮਾਰੂ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੯੯ Page 999
Eae Naethrahu Maeriho Har Thum Mehi Joth Dhharee Har Bin Avar N Dhaekhahu Koee ||
O my eyes, the Lord has infused His Light into you; do not look upon any other than the Lord.
ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਕੋਈ ਨਦਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿਆ ॥ Har Bin Avar N Dhaekhahu Koee Nadharee Har Nihaaliaa ||
Do not look upon any other than the Lord; the Lord alone is worthy of beholding.
ਏਹੁ ਵਿਸੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਤੁਮ ਦੇਖਦੇ ਏਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਇਆ ॥ Eaehu Vis Sansaar Thum Dhaekhadhae Eaehu Har Kaa Roop Hai Har Roop Nadharee Aaeiaa ||
This whole world which you see is the image of the Lord; only the image of the Lord is seen.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬੁਝਿਆ ਜਾ ਵੇਖਾ ਹਰਿ ਇਕੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ Gur Parasaadhee Bujhiaa Jaa Vaekhaa Har Eik Hai Har Bin Avar N Koee ||
By Guru's Grace, I understand, and I see only the One Lord; there is no one except the Lord.
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਏਹਿ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਅੰਧ ਸੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਦਿਬ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੩੬॥ Kehai Naanak Eaehi Naethr Andhh Sae Sathigur Miliai Dhib Dhrisatt Hoee ||36||
Says Nanak, these eyes were blind; but meeting the True Guru, they became all-seeing. ||36||
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਅਨੰਦ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੨੨ ਪੰ. ੭
Here the word used is '' ਸੰਸਾਰੁ " translated as world. It is clear from the Shabad that the sansar ( world) here means the visible world. The advice of gurbani is to look as " Har Ka Roop " . To see creator in the creation and the oneness.
ਮਨ ਰੇ ਸਾਚਾ ਗਹੋ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥ Man Rae Saachaa Geho Bichaaraa ||
O mind, embrace true contemplation.
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਮਾਨੋ ਸਗਰੋ ਇਹੁ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Raam Naam Bin Mithhiaa Maano Sagaro Eihu Sansaaraa ||1|| Rehaao ||
Without the Lord's Name, know that this whole world is false. ||1||Pause||
ਜੈਤਸਰੀ (ਮ: ੯) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੦੩ ਪੰ. ੭
ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਰਚਨਾ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਸਗਲ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥
Baran Chihan Naahee Kishh Rachanaa Mithhiaa Sagal Pasaaraa ||
Nothing of the color and the form of the creation shall remain; the entire expanse is transitory.
ਭਣਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਬ ਖੇਲੁ ਉਝਾਰੈ ਤਬ ਏਕੈ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੪॥
Bhanath Naanak Jab Khael Oujhaarai Thab Eaekai Eaekankaaraa ||4||4||
Prays Nanak, when He brings His play to its close, then only the One, the One Lord remains. ||4||4||
ਮਾਰੂ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੯੯ Page 999
ਭਭਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਮਿਟਾਵਹੁ ਅਪਨਾ ॥ Bhabhaa Bharam Mittaavahu Apanaa ||
BHABHA: Cast out your doubt and delusion
ਇਆ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਹੈ ਸੁਪਨਾ ॥ Eiaa Sansaar Sagal Hai Supanaa ||
This world is just a dream.
ਗਉੜੀ ਬ.ਅ. (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੫੮ Page 258
BHABHA: Cast out your doubt and delusion
ਇਆ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਹੈ ਸੁਪਨਾ ॥ Eiaa Sansaar Sagal Hai Supanaa ||
This world is just a dream.
ਗਉੜੀ ਬ.ਅ. (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੫੮ Page 258
ਕਾਂ ਕੋ ਤਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸੰਪਤਿ ਕਾਂ ਕੀ ਕਾ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ਲਗਾਹੀ ॥ Kaan Ko Than Dhhan Sanpath Kaan Kee Kaa Sio Naehu Lagaahee || Who has a body? Who has wealth and property? With whom should we fall in love?
ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸਗਲ ਬਿਨਾਸੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਦਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਹੀ ॥੧॥ Jo Dheesai So Sagal Binaasai Jio Baadhar Kee Shhaahee ||1|| Whatever is seen, shall all disappear, like the shade of a passing cloud. ||1||
ਸਾਰੰਗ (ਮ: ੯) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੩੧ page 1231
ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸਗਲ ਬਿਨਾਸੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਦਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਹੀ ॥੧॥ Jo Dheesai So Sagal Binaasai Jio Baadhar Kee Shhaahee ||1|| Whatever is seen, shall all disappear, like the shade of a passing cloud. ||1||
ਸਾਰੰਗ (ਮ: ੯) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੩੧ page 1231
ਜਿਉ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਅਰੁ ਪੇਖਨਾ ਐਸੇ ਜਗ ਕਉ ਜਾਨਿ ॥ Jio Supanaa Ar Paekhanaa Aisae Jag Ko Jaan ||
Like a dream and a show, so is this world, you must know.
ਇਨ ਮੈ ਕਛੁ ਸਾਚੋ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੨੩॥ Ein Mai Kashh Saacho Nehee Naanak Bin Bhagavaan ||23||
None of this is true, O Nanak, without God. ||23||
ਸਲੋਕ ਵਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਵਧੀਕ (ਮ: ੯) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪੨੭ page 1421
The shabads quoted above although in short explain that :Like a dream and a show, so is this world, you must know.
ਇਨ ਮੈ ਕਛੁ ਸਾਚੋ ਨਹੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੨੩॥ Ein Mai Kashh Saacho Nehee Naanak Bin Bhagavaan ||23||
None of this is true, O Nanak, without God. ||23||
ਸਲੋਕ ਵਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਵਧੀਕ (ਮ: ੯) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪੨੭ page 1421
The created world is false except for the creater . The creator is within the creation. Nothing is permanent . Whatever is seen ends . Only permanence is the creator the Sach (true) part of creation. The support of creation.
Further in thi post it is stated that :
Quote
...the thieves need to be understood, to be talked to, to be listened to, to be integrated into life, to be given a useful job, to be used in logistics, but no, you guys want to hit them and hit them hard, but you will never win, and you will spend your lives with that mallet bashing away ...
Unquote
This is not what gurbani advises. Always gurbani explains that only through love of the ONE that these five thieves can go away or are under control.
ਗੂਜਰੀ ਅਸਟਪਦੀਆ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧
Goojaree Asattapadheeaa Mehalaa 1 Ghar 1 Goojaree, Ashtapadees, First Mehl, First House:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ Ik Oankaar Sathigur Prasaadh || One Universal Creator God.
By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਏਕ ਨਗਰੀ ਪੰਚ ਚੋਰ ਬਸੀਅਲੇ ਬਰਜਤ ਚੋਰੀ ਧਾਵੈ ॥ Eaek Nagaree Panch Chor Baseealae Barajath Choree Dhhaavai || In the one village of the body, live the five thieves; they have been warned, but they still go out stealing.
ਤ੍ਰਿਹਦਸ ਮਾਲ ਰਖੈ ਜੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੋਖ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਸੋ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ Thrihadhas Maal Rakhai Jo Naanak Mokh Mukath So Paavai ||1||
One who keeps his assets safe from the three modes and the ten passions, O Nanak, attains liberation and emancipation. ||1||
ਚੇਤਹੁ ਬਾਸੁਦੇਉ ਬਨਵਾਲੀ ॥ Chaethahu Baasudhaeo Banavaalee ||
Center your mind on the all-pervading Lord, the Wearer of garlands of the jungles.
ਰਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਜਪਮਾਲੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Raam Ridhai Japamaalee ||1|| Rehaao |
| Let your rosary be the chanting of the Lord's Name in your heart. ||1||Pause||
ਉਰਧ ਮੂਲ ਜਿਸੁ ਸਾਖ ਤਲਾਹਾ ਚਾਰਿ ਬੇਦ ਜਿਤੁ ਲਾਗੇ ॥ Ouradhh Mool Jis Saakh Thalaahaa Chaar Baedh Jith Laagae || Its roots extend upwards, and its branches reach down; the four Vedas are attached to it.
ਸਹਜ ਭਾਇ ਜਾਇ ਤੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਲਿਵ ਜਾਗੇ ॥੨॥ Sehaj Bhaae Jaae Thae Naanak Paarabreham Liv Jaagae ||2||
He alone reaches this tree with ease, O Nanak, who remains wakeful in the Love of the Supreme Lord God. ||2||
ਪਾਰਜਾਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਗਨਿ ਮੇਰੈ ਪੁਹਪ ਪਤ੍ਰ ਤਤੁ ਡਾਲਾ ॥ Paarajaath Ghar Aagan Maerai Puhap Pathr Thath Ddaalaa ||
The Elysian Tree is the courtyard of my house; in it are the flowers, leaves and stems of reality.
ਸਰਬ ਜੋਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਸੰਭੂ ਛੋਡਹੁ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਜੰਜਾਲਾ ॥੩॥ Sarab Joth Niranjan Sanbhoo Shhoddahu Bahuth Janjaalaa ||3||
Meditate on the self-existent, immaculate Lord, whose Light is pervading everywhere; renounce all your worldly entanglements. ||3||
ਸੁਣਿ ਸਿਖਵੰਤੇ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬਿਨਵੈ ਛੋਡਹੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਾਲਾ ॥ Sun Sikhavanthae Naanak Binavai Shhoddahu Maaeiaa Jaalaa ||
Listen, O seekers of Truth - Nanak begs you to renounce the traps of Maya.
ਮਨਿ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਨ ਕਾਲਾ ॥੪॥ Man Beechaar Eaek Liv Laagee Punarap Janam N Kaalaa ||4||
Reflect within your mind, that by enshrining love for the One Lord, you shall not be subject to birth and death again. ||4||
ਸੋ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਕਥੀਅਲੇ ਸੋ ਵੈਦੁ ਜਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੋਗੀ ॥ So Guroo So Sikh Kathheealae So Vaidh J Jaanai Rogee || He alone is said to be a Guru, he alone is said to be a Sikh, and he alone is said to be a physician, who knows the patient's illness.
ਤਿਸੁ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਕੰਮੁ ਨ ਧੰਧਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਧੰਧੈ ਗਿਰਹੀ ਜੋਗੀ ॥੫॥ This Kaaran Kanm N Dhhandhhaa Naahee Dhhandhhai Girehee Jogee ||5|
He is not affected by actions, responsibilities and entanglements; in the entanglements of his household, he maintains the detachment of Yoga. ||5||
ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਤਜੀਅਲੇ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਤਿਸ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ Kaam Krodhh Ahankaar Thajeealae Lobh Mohu This Maaeiaa || He renounces sexual desire, anger, egotism, greed, attachment and Maya.
ਮਨਿ ਤਤੁ ਅਵਿਗਤੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੬॥ Man Thath Avigath Dhhiaaeiaa Gur Parasaadhee Paaeiaa ||6|| Within his mind, he meditates on the reality of the Imperishable Lord; by Guru's Grace he finds Him. ||6||
ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਸਭ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਥੀਅਲੇ ਸੇਤ ਬਰਨ ਸਭਿ ਦੂਤਾ ॥ Giaan Dhhiaan Sabh Dhaath Kathheealae Saeth Baran Sabh Dhoothaa ||
Spiritual wisdom and meditation are all said to be God's gifts; all of the demons are turned white before him.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਮਲ ਮਧੁ ਤਾਸੁ ਰਸਾਦੰ ਜਾਗਤ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੂਤਾ ॥੭॥ Breham Kamal Madhh Thaas Rasaadhan Jaagath Naahee Soothaa ||7||
He enjoys the taste of the honey of God's lotus; he remains awake, and does not fall asleep. ||7||
ਮਹਾ ਗੰਭੀਰ ਪਤ੍ਰ ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੁਆਇਆ ॥ Mehaa Ganbheer Pathr Paathaalaa Naanak Sarab Juaaeiaa ||
This lotus is very deep; its leaves are the nether regions, and it is connected to the whole universe.
ਉਪਦੇਸ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਮ ਪੁਨਹਿ ਨ ਗਰਭੰ ਬਿਖੁ ਤਜਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਆਇਆ ॥੮॥੧॥ Oupadhaes Guroo Mam Punehi N Garabhan Bikh Thaj Anmrith Peeaaeiaa ||8||1||
Under Guru's Instruction, I shall not have to enter the womb again; I have renounced the poison of corruption, and I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||8||1||
ਗੂਜਰੀ ਅਸਟ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫੦੩ page 503
Those who have been grouped as meditators have been on the right track. They have faced strong words.
The discussion should be based on gurbani and not be a play of words.
gur_meet
SPNer
To clarify -
Sach (truth) is not given as the name of GOD in Gurbani. Sach( truth) as explained by gurbani is that Creator is in the creation. Everything and everywhere is creator. This Sach (truth) we have to know , understand and enshrine in our heart. Simran is towards this purpose. That which is not permanent - a mithia and Kurh
There is no one name given in gurbani for the creator.
Here are gurbani quotes :
ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਨੇਕਾ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੰਤਾ ਕਹਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਹੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਗੁਣ ਕੇਤੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Thaerae Naam Anaekaa Roop Ananthaa Kehan N Jaahee Thaerae Gun Kaethae ||1|| Rehaao ||
Your Names are so many, and Your Forms are endless. No one can tell how may Glorious Virtues You have. ||1||Pause||
ਆਸਾ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੫੮ page 358
ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਨੇਕ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
Thaerae Naam Anaek Keemath Nehee Paaee ||
Your Names are countless; Your value cannot be estimated.
ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਵਸਾਈ ॥
Sach Naam Har Hiradhai Vasaaee ||
I enshrine the Lord's True Name within my heart.
ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਉਣੁ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇਰੀ ਤੂ ਆਪੇ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੮॥
Keemath Koun Karae Prabh Thaeree Thoo Aapae Sehaj Samaaeiaa ||8||
Who can estimate Your value, God? You are immersed and absorbed in Yourself. ||8||
ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੬੭ page 1067
Thaerae Naam Anaekaa Roop Ananthaa Kehan N Jaahee Thaerae Gun Kaethae ||1|| Rehaao ||
Your Names are so many, and Your Forms are endless. No one can tell how may Glorious Virtues You have. ||1||Pause||
ਆਸਾ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੫੮ page 358
ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਨੇਕ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
Thaerae Naam Anaek Keemath Nehee Paaee ||
Your Names are countless; Your value cannot be estimated.
ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਵਸਾਈ ॥
Sach Naam Har Hiradhai Vasaaee ||
I enshrine the Lord's True Name within my heart.
ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਉਣੁ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇਰੀ ਤੂ ਆਪੇ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੮॥
Keemath Koun Karae Prabh Thaeree Thoo Aapae Sehaj Samaaeiaa ||8||
Who can estimate Your value, God? You are immersed and absorbed in Yourself. ||8||
ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੬੭ page 1067
ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥
Gourree Mehalaa 9 || Gauree, Ninth Mehl:
ਸਾਧੋ ਰਚਨਾ ਰਾਮ ਬਨਾਈ ॥
Saadhho Rachanaa Raam Banaaee ||
Holy Saadhus: the Lord fashioned the creation.
ਇਕਿ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਇਕ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਲਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Eik Binasai Eik Asathhir Maanai Acharaj Lakhiou N Jaaee ||1|| Rehaao ||
One person passes away, and another thinks that he will live forever - this is a wonder beyond understanding! ||1||Pause||
ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਮੋਹ ਬਸਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਹਰਿ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਈ ॥
Kaam Krodhh Moh Bas Praanee Har Moorath Bisaraaee ||
The mortal beings are held in the power of sexual desire, anger and emotional attachment; they have forgotten the Lord, the Immortal Form.
ਝੂਠਾ ਤਨੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਿਓ ਜਿਉ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਰੈਨਾਈ ॥੧॥
Jhoothaa Than Saachaa Kar Maaniou Jio Supanaa Rainaaee ||1||
The body is false, but they believe it to be true; it is like a dream in the night. ||1||
ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸਗਲ ਬਿਨਾਸੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਦਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਈ ॥
Jo Dheesai So Sagal Binaasai Jio Baadhar Kee Shhaaee ||
Whatever is seen, shall all pass away, like the shadow of a cloud.
ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਗੁ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਾਮ ਸਰਨਾਈ ॥੨॥੨॥
Jan Naanak Jag Jaaniou Mithhiaa Rehiou Raam Saranaaee ||2||2||
O servant Nanak, one who knows the world to be unreal, dwells in the Sanctuary of the Lord. ||2||2||
ਗਉੜੀ (ਮ: ੯) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੧੯ page 219
Gourree Mehalaa 9 || Gauree, Ninth Mehl:
ਸਾਧੋ ਰਚਨਾ ਰਾਮ ਬਨਾਈ ॥
Saadhho Rachanaa Raam Banaaee ||
Holy Saadhus: the Lord fashioned the creation.
ਇਕਿ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਇਕ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਲਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Eik Binasai Eik Asathhir Maanai Acharaj Lakhiou N Jaaee ||1|| Rehaao ||
One person passes away, and another thinks that he will live forever - this is a wonder beyond understanding! ||1||Pause||
ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਮੋਹ ਬਸਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਹਰਿ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਈ ॥
Kaam Krodhh Moh Bas Praanee Har Moorath Bisaraaee ||
The mortal beings are held in the power of sexual desire, anger and emotional attachment; they have forgotten the Lord, the Immortal Form.
ਝੂਠਾ ਤਨੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਿਓ ਜਿਉ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਰੈਨਾਈ ॥੧॥
Jhoothaa Than Saachaa Kar Maaniou Jio Supanaa Rainaaee ||1||
The body is false, but they believe it to be true; it is like a dream in the night. ||1||
ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸਗਲ ਬਿਨਾਸੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਦਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਈ ॥
Jo Dheesai So Sagal Binaasai Jio Baadhar Kee Shhaaee ||
Whatever is seen, shall all pass away, like the shadow of a cloud.
ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਗੁ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਾਮ ਸਰਨਾਈ ॥੨॥੨॥
Jan Naanak Jag Jaaniou Mithhiaa Rehiou Raam Saranaaee ||2||2||
O servant Nanak, one who knows the world to be unreal, dwells in the Sanctuary of the Lord. ||2||2||
ਗਉੜੀ (ਮ: ੯) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੧੯ page 219
- Jan 31, 2011
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I have posted my opinion, since when did your opinion become fact?
I can see a pattern here, meditation clearly makes you believe you know all the answers, I am going to run out of red lights to give people!
May I point out the ambiguity of your statement? to look and understand the true meaning swings both ways, it could be used to support either of our arguments....
Line 1 of Pauri.
ਜੀਵਦਿਆ ਮਰੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਨ ਪਛੋਤਾਈਐ ॥
While you are alive, conquer death, and you shall have no regrets in the end.
I am well aware of the concept of being dead whilst alive, it is an experience I am familiar with, however Anhad Shabad seems to be a largely AKJ concept, if you are a Sikh that follows this type of Sikhism, good luck to you, but please do not try and pass it off as the definitive.
this sort of quoting is pointless, anyone who knows the way the SGGS reads, as I am sure you do, must also be aware that entire shabads cannot be whittled down to one line to prove a point, I am not prepared to mod on this thread, so someone else will have to take that up with you, however, one liners just do not work.
Your saying all visible Creation is false, and that the only true Creation is invisible Creation, hey I like this concept, in fact, its a great concept and I want to be part of it! It gives free licence for baba types, its a bit like the Emperors new clothes, you will pardon me if I take the role of young boy in this, you can play the Emperor if you wish, it kinda suits you!
Does that mean there is also a true front of the Creation, that, wait let me guess, is only visible to those who can see through the tenth eye? no, you guys are not elitist at all! this is aimed at the common man in the street for sure!
If the translator has translated this wrongly as world, would it not have been a good idea to give your translation rather than leaving us all hanging? you say that only the person who knows the truth also knows that the body is subject to death, uhmm I would say most people know this, so I am not quite sure what your point is, unless your saying most people know the truth, also, not all of us believe in reincarnation, certainly not me anyway.
I do not agree with your translation, since when were Sikhs supposed to turn away from worldy affairs? It is a pity the tenth master did not have your expertise in these matters, you could have saved him from all those battles and interventions in worldly affairs, you could have saved the ninth master too, clearly it would have been better for all if they had just meditated and found the tenth eye, that would have saved us!
whereas clearly yours is simply illuminating!
I am confused now, to see Creator in which Creation? according to you, all visible Creation is false, so do you mean all invisible Creation? are you contradicting yourself? if you want that red light you are going to have to try harder.
so your saying in effect that the Created world is again false, but Creator is within this, surely that follows then that Creator is also false, the rest I cannot make head or tail on, I am cancelling your red light, frankly I think those flashing yellow/orange ones would be more apt, this is more of a traffic accident.
I have given my view, which is only view, nothing else, it is a pragmatic view, kindly explain what love of the one entails and what I need to do in real terms to get these thieves under control, does it involve, gulp. meditation by any chance?
I have said it before and I will say it again, if you guys wish to find the fourth nose or whatever it is you are looking for, brilliant, its a free world, do as you wish, just do not pass it off as the definitive, I do not pass my thoughts off as the definitive, they are just my musings that hopefully contribute to discussion, the moment we come to a point where someone says, 'hey I have the answers, listen up, your doing this all wrong' we reach the end, because discussion becomes an argument. SPNAdminji knew this, and would nip such posts in the bud, I am not as wise or as strong as her, I prefer wit and sarcasm, and that will eventually be my downfall.
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this nicely brings this thread back to the subject in hand, for me Sikhism is to adapt the facets of the Creator as outlined in Mool Mantra, to have no fear, to have no enemies, and to be true.
the second line of Mool Mantra is Satnam, my belief is that this means
EK ONKAR
One true Creator
Sat Nam
whose name is the truth
I am happy to stand corrected, I have never intimated I am a scholar of Sikhism nor a great Sikh, in fact, to state categorically, all I have learnt is from having the **** kicked out of me by life, it just so happens that what I have learned seems to tally with the what I have read in the SGGS. That is my education and training, all I can do is put my opinion forward as opinion only, I expect others to do the same.
gur_meet
SPNer
Harry ji Bhul Chuk Maf karni
Through the Guru the Sikh is bonded with the Sikh as Sadh Sangat. The spiritual growth is through Sadh sangat.
Our Guru is Shabad Guru . Shabad Guru Ever guides. We do not have any mental quality to understand gurbani. The understanding is what comes intuitively . Who else would be guiding other than Guru.
This guidance comes when the Sikh brings in his simran the Hukam :
The translations are misleading. These are to be seen and overlooked while understanding.
Ek onkar is how creation IS . There is oneness . There is Hukam of creator that has created Maya (illusion) as well. Maya is such that matter also looks real.
Guru invariably shows the Sikhs HE is within creation through a feeling or even a pervading light. This comes when Sikh does not accept the illusion but accepts what Guru says. This as simran is repeated by the Sikh and then the Gurparsad is there.
This again is very limited knowledge. HE is infinite.
In Satnaam the intuitive guidance is that Naam which is the Creator within creation is the only truth about creation. When reading Shabads the linkage is also felt.
There is no logical or as is said scientific proof for this.
Through the Guru the Sikh is bonded with the Sikh as Sadh Sangat. The spiritual growth is through Sadh sangat.
Our Guru is Shabad Guru . Shabad Guru Ever guides. We do not have any mental quality to understand gurbani. The understanding is what comes intuitively . Who else would be guiding other than Guru.
This guidance comes when the Sikh brings in his simran the Hukam :
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥
Sathigur Kee Baanee Sath Sath Kar Jaanahu Gurasikhahu Har Karathaa Aap Muhahu Kadtaaeae ||
O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.
ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੮ Page 308
The Mool Manter 's understanding only Shabad Guru gives . Sathigur Kee Baanee Sath Sath Kar Jaanahu Gurasikhahu Har Karathaa Aap Muhahu Kadtaaeae ||
O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.
ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੮ Page 308
The translations are misleading. These are to be seen and overlooked while understanding.
Ek onkar is how creation IS . There is oneness . There is Hukam of creator that has created Maya (illusion) as well. Maya is such that matter also looks real.
Guru invariably shows the Sikhs HE is within creation through a feeling or even a pervading light. This comes when Sikh does not accept the illusion but accepts what Guru says. This as simran is repeated by the Sikh and then the Gurparsad is there.
This again is very limited knowledge. HE is infinite.
In Satnaam the intuitive guidance is that Naam which is the Creator within creation is the only truth about creation. When reading Shabads the linkage is also felt.
There is no logical or as is said scientific proof for this.
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I would ask the same of you, if you feel I have some sort of vendetta against meditation, I do not, I just do not understand how it can be the core of Sikhism as it is with some.
if we do not have any mental quality to understand gurbani, then what is the point of reading it, you say it comes intuitively and from the guidance of the guru, but our guru is the guru shabad, the word of the guru, reading it, understanding it and practising it makes sense, but having some celestial hand hovering over your head imparting this knowledge to you sounds superstitious and magical.
but matter is real, the theory that the world is an illusion is a Vedic/Buddhist concept, my take is that the world is very real, it is our own senses that turn it into an illusion, we see sex objects where there are women, we see powerful fast cars where there is only metal, we see admiration where there is only envy, that is where I am in my present journey, it is the thieves that cause this veil to fall over the world, but the world itself exists and is very real.
I prefer the feeling that I am living and thinking truthfully, the trouble with feelings and pervading lights is that they are all present anyway, how do you know what is god given and what is self given?
Does living truthfully need simran? does it need connection? does it need anything other than recognising consequences, discipline, a small amount of common sense and the lack of fear?
yes ji,
like harry ji says, we are already merged...but this crazy Ego of mine, it's done a good job of making me feel seperate to Him. And by feeling seperate to Him, i have created boundaried amongst all people.
For all the 'imagining' that God is in all, for all the 'i see god in all' ... it only takes a iota of being dragged into a situation under the influence of any or all of the 5 thieves and i have lost all recognition of God in all...that's how sharp this path is.
and for all my efforts, i am still being pulled by the hair by the 5 thieves...
And i know Harry Ji and many others do not agree with certain efforts of mine (naam simran, meditation etc)...the one thing this has allowed me to see is:
all the crazy sounding mystical suff in Gurbani is in fact very True ...i don't know what all this is...but if it is True and exists in me (like Gurbani says and is proving to me) then it also exists within everyone else...thus we truely are one and the same...all in one, and one in all.
Therefore no matter how much anyone says Naam Simran is pointless, or sitting and withrawing from the outer world for brief moments to go within is selfish or whatever...i cannot really care for such comments for when you are mesmerized with this inner experience, nothing else compares, nothing can convince you otherwise.
this also truly changes you view of the outer world...creation, and how you see interact with others, in a very unique way and very difficult to describe
onwards and upwards.
sticking with the topic...i have to try to live truthfully every moment otherwise i will fall off this path...and through this path i am realizing i have not been living in truth and slowly Guru Ji is starting to open my eyes...inner eyes to the truth...
this is just my opinion, everyones opinions and feeling about living in truth and truthful living thus far have been spot on.
God Bless
meditation, is definitely important part in Sikhism, like I've mentioned in the other posts, what it does is temporaly release you from the illusion, and in the long run as you more realise the illusion reduce the effect of ego, and to bond the soul with the divine world. Meditation is also important for the person to discover his/her true self.
If you ask me if this all can be gained without meditation, yes it can but it likely would be very very very hard.
And yes only medition is not enough, you first have to understand the thieves, in order to conquer them.
Harry Haller ji the only point to keep reading the Gurbani is first to understand it. However you ask whats the point of reading Gurbani if someone already understands it, gurbani is there to motivate you on your journey when you feel like your straying from your path.
Yes, one needs simran even if you mentaly are capable to remember and understand everything you read in GGS ji, everyone gets a moments when he is straying from the path thats where reading GGS ji helps. To live in the truth one first has to realize whats creating the Lie and find a way what could counter the evildoer inside ourself.
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Chazji, my dear brother in arms,
On the big scale of life we all do what gets us through the night, I am not out to convert or change the minds of anyone, I resent the implication that naam simran is a completely meditative domain, meditation is great, many do it, but all I am saying is that naam simran can be expressed in many many different ways, through seva, through connection.
If meditation works for you, Lucky et al, great, brilliant, I am absolutely pleased for you, it has to be better than sitting in front of a computer screen watching filth with a joint in your mouth,
My only concern and it is for me I say this, which is why I do not practice it, is that it only blots out the filth for the moment, yes it fills your head, yes it drives all other thoughts out, but back in the real world, back when you have that feeling in your stomach, when the need for gratification through any way is the only thing on your mind, when your buzzing like an alarm bell, and you feel weak, helpless, like a zombie doing its masters bidding, when the thieves are fully in control, then all life is false, everything is false, and you end up like a yoyo between serenity and hell.
that is my understanding of the situation, I am happy to stand corrected.
yes the word is real...but not forever...one day it will gone...just like our bodies...so how real is it? it appears then is gone...
our problem is we forget that it is temporary...so we get into entanglements...attachments, anger, greed, egotistical ventures...
is all our efforts solely on the thing that will be gone...
a child gets excited when given a lolipop...child is in a moment of complete happiness...but then the lollipop dissolves and is gone...all that is left is a memory.
A time comes, for everyone at some stage...where they start to seek to know what never ceases to exists (the actual truth)...gurbani says that part of us can be experienced within us...then the mind wonders how this can be done..
But that doesn't mean anyone should stop interacting in the world...
The computer game is not the truth...the code, the programmer is the truth...
gur_meet
SPNer
Harry ji
When I say we do not have mental quality the meaning is contextual. While living we are us only. Our thoughts ,beliefs , habits , feelings influencing our choices.
The understanding is also linked. We understand in the light of past experience and learning.
Gurbani words have deeper meanings. The wordings are simple looking , straight forward but have so much depth.Much of the time the words are overlooked and just read.
There is often no past experience as a guide.
The first thing that jap does is shift our awareness within. It brings us in contact with the wider connection from within. Waheguru Jap brings this change. With the belief being enshrined within that :
ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਲੇ ॥Gur Maerai Sang Sadhaa Hai Naalae ||
My Guru is always with me, near at hand.
ਆਸਾ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੯੪ ਪੰ. ੩
The actual understanding is not that guru is at hand as in translation but within and everywhere.
The understandings come and grow only when we accept it is not our capacity but HIS capacity. When our awareness is within.
There is nothing magical about it. We have to discard first all worldly theories and just do simran as guruji tells then the actual reality begins to surface.
Sikh meditation is Simran which is quite different from other types of meditation with closed eyes and concentrating on a manter or just trying to stop the flow of thoughts or trying to go towards silence between the thought gaps.
Sikh meditation which is simran is a transforming meditation. It is not exactly transforming rather is that we start becoming what we really are .
The viel or illusion is HIS created. The thieves causing this is part of the illusion.
Yes living truthfully needs simran. The attributes of truth are already there and these come to surface.
Gurbani also explains this. I would post the pungtees soon.
When I say we do not have mental quality the meaning is contextual. While living we are us only. Our thoughts ,beliefs , habits , feelings influencing our choices.
The understanding is also linked. We understand in the light of past experience and learning.
Gurbani words have deeper meanings. The wordings are simple looking , straight forward but have so much depth.Much of the time the words are overlooked and just read.
There is often no past experience as a guide.
The first thing that jap does is shift our awareness within. It brings us in contact with the wider connection from within. Waheguru Jap brings this change. With the belief being enshrined within that :
ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਲੇ ॥Gur Maerai Sang Sadhaa Hai Naalae ||
My Guru is always with me, near at hand.
ਆਸਾ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੯੪ ਪੰ. ੩
The actual understanding is not that guru is at hand as in translation but within and everywhere.
The understandings come and grow only when we accept it is not our capacity but HIS capacity. When our awareness is within.
There is nothing magical about it. We have to discard first all worldly theories and just do simran as guruji tells then the actual reality begins to surface.
Sikh meditation is Simran which is quite different from other types of meditation with closed eyes and concentrating on a manter or just trying to stop the flow of thoughts or trying to go towards silence between the thought gaps.
Sikh meditation which is simran is a transforming meditation. It is not exactly transforming rather is that we start becoming what we really are .
The viel or illusion is HIS created. The thieves causing this is part of the illusion.
Yes living truthfully needs simran. The attributes of truth are already there and these come to surface.
Gurbani also explains this. I would post the pungtees soon.
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