Sikhs In Temples

[Saint Soldier]

Sat shri akal,

Bindranwalle was an idol and a Saint because he sought to free his motherland from the clutches of pillagers and oppressive looters. There are none such valiant able to overcome the monstrosity of modern politics and media to accomplish any worthy cause.

I have always been confused as to what he was whatever he was against the laws of a sovereign state my motherland and the nation which my generations have served to me he was more of a kind of terrorist than a freedom fighter.:yes:

 

[Archived_Member5]

Sant Soldier Ji, I rest my case. The biggest present day terrorist is America who itself accuses, hinders other nations fromarming to defend themselves and terrorises all who have independence or are self sufficient. My barely concealed loathing for the mob, rabble or the people is they create their own hell, elect corrupt, ruthless officials into power, side with these powers against any freedom fighter and thereafter spend time lamenting Gods nonexistence or the validity of his tenets.

It is politics. Who is labelled a terrorist and who is given an OBE for services rendered to the state and media is reliant upon who serves the interests of the same said. No matter one persons freedom fighter seeking to gain the same rights for his people and state is the states terrorist, whilst itself breaks all international laws of diplomacy in counter offensives. What will become of this world. I feel God has washed his hands of it, as would I if I were not so bound ...

The people ultimately get what they deserve in the end in a natural law of karma ...

 

[Archived_Member4]

Sat shri akal,

I have always been confused as to what he was whatever he was against the laws of a sovereign state my motherland and the nation which my generations have served to me he was more of a kind of terrorist than a freedom fighter.:yes:

You call Sant ji a terrorist on what accounts?

 

[Saint Soldier]

true jeeti ji someone's terrorist is others freedom fighter like i feel that Tamil tigers in Sri Lanka are freedom fighters

 

[Saint Soldier]

singh ji thats my personal view and i said what i feel Sikhs are happy in India at least we are good as compared to Pakistani non-Muslims why would i like a person who is trying to destroy my mother land.:inca:

 

[Archived_Member4]

Sant Soldier Ji, I rest my case. The biggest present day terrorist is America who itself accuses, hinders other nations fromarming to defend themselves and terrorises all who have independence or are self sufficient. My barely concealed loathing for the mob, rabble or the people is they create their own hell, elect corrupt, ruthless officials into power, side with these powers against any freedom fighter and thereafter spend time lamenting Gods nonexistence or the validity of his tenets.
Look at Benazir Bhutto, Pakistani’s have worked diligently to build Pakistan into an economic prospering success yet to create a demand for her services, she and her cohorts purposely fuelled riots and civil unrest in order for her to play saviour and hero. As an American sympathiser and lap dog, she duly got her come-uppance. It is politics. Who is labelled a terrorist and who is given an OBE for services rendered to the state and media is reliant upon who serves the interests of the same said. No matter one persons freedom fighter seeking to gain the same rights for his people and state is the states terrorist, whilst itself breaks all international laws of diplomacy in counter offensives. What will become of this world. I feel God has washed his hands of it, as would I if I were not so bound ...

The people ultimately get what they deserve in the end in a natural law of karma ...

Jeetijohal ji, they don't understand, they can only see what is told in the media, the true source for the truth.

America accused Israeli of genocide, but when America went into Iraq even after UN disallowed them, they went in for no reason but for personal gains. When its the Americans killing thousands of innocent people destroying there homes its not genocide or mass murder its getting terrorist out. A man in a suit white collared is a hero because thats the way it is. Any man that speak out against governments for freedom of speech is a terrorist and must be crushed. The CIA are doing a wonderful job of covering up Americas crimes. The irony of all of this is that the American governmnt is getting regular civilians to do there dirty work by just feeding them that certain things need to be done for the future.

 

[Archived_Member4]

singh ji thats my personal view and i said what i feel Sikhs are happy in India at least we are good as compared to Pakistani non-Muslims why would i like a person who is trying to destroy my mother land.:inca:

You can feel what you like but what i want to know is you must have been fed this information that Sant ji is a terrorist because of a certain act. Someone just doesn't wake up one morning and say I feel like calling this guy a terrorist so from now on im going to call him a terrorist. You get where im getting at.

Sant ji wasn't trying to destroy India, listen to his speeches he was fighting for the freedom of Sikhs. If he was just a terrorist, then when the attack happened on Harmandar Sahib he would not have stuck around and sacrificed his life. He would have got up and took off and went into hiding. Sant ji took a oath in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and he stuck to his oath.

I went to India 3 years ago and this was my first time going and the things I say out there proved that the government doesn't need to fight against the Sikh shield and sword to shield and sword they have taken up other tactics. The best way to destroy anything is by going into there infrastructure and polluting them from the inside. The US is really good at this by using jackels and economic hitmen. One example of this kind of tactics India has used is alcohol stores in every village and every corner. Making something that is self destructive easily available. Another is using Sikh politicians to convey that the government is doing right. This gives the community comfort that one of there own is sayings its okay. And another stratergy they have used is please the Jatts in Punjab because if you don't please the the majority then you have to face them head on. And they don't want a re-occurs of 1984 when rest of the world is awake now and Sikhs are in the government to voice Sikhs stand.

 

[Archived_Member5]

Singh Ji, the remainder of the completion of the liberation of the Punjab will be dealt with by the assigned politico’s in the Lok Saba where Sikhs are duly represented. Sikhs tempers flare easily, and we would be greatly loathe to incite any outburst s of violence amongst the Sikhs regarding this topic or any other. Punjab has already sacrificed far too many sons in this cause. The crusade is waged with intelligence, sense and reason. It is a task that should be easily completed given the only hindrances are irate hindu’s holding a grudge. It will be exacted but in a calm and rational manner. I would rather cut off my chi chi finger before I would call Santy Ji a terrorist or any other defamatory term he is amongst the most rational contributors here.

Respectfully ...

 

[Archived_Member4]

Singh Ji, the remainder of the completion of the liberation of the Punjab will be dealt with by the assigned politico’s in the Lok Saba where Sikhs are duly represented. Sikhs tempers flare easily, and we would be greatly loathe to incite any outburst s of violence amongst the Sikhs regarding this topic or any other. Punjab has already sacrificed far too many sons in this cause. The crusade is waged with intelligence, sense and reason. It is a task that should be easily completed given the only hindrances are irate hindu’s holding a grudge. It will be exacted but in a calm and rational manner. I would rather cut off my chi chi finger before I would call Santy Ji a terrorist or any other defamatory term he is amongst the most rational contributors here.

Respectfully ...

The liberation of Punjab will not happen anytime soon because you got Punjabs politicians that looking to there benefts only; and you know who I am refering to here. The man himself has backed away from the front seat and now has his son running his operations. The blood on these politicians hands are not visible to the naked eye and this gives them the power to continue there destructive ways. Sant ji stood up to them and they took him out of the picture.

I completely agree Sant ji a terrorist!!!!!!! I don't know how some can call a Saint a terrorist.

 

[Saint Soldier]

Sat shri akal,
Respected singh ji and jeetijohal ji,

The successful revolutionary is a statesmen,the unsuccessful one a criminal.
--Frich Fromm
I agree to the point that Sant Jarnail singh was a revolutionary and that he never intended to hurt the feelings of India loving Sikhs like me and even that he intended to bring out equal rights for Sikhs but there are several ways to achieve this aim dialogs are the best way look at MD.Jinnah he never picked up a gun and created a nation for his community.why did he chose the battle ground to be the golden temple he wanted Sikhs to assume that Indian government is against Sikhs.The Indian government had full faith in Sikhs right from the formation of free India and this is the reason why Punjabi Sikhs were alloted land in Punjab only this was done by Nehru Ji,sardar vallabhai patel(non-Sikh) the iron man of India was very interesting character of Indian politics he knew Sikhs(or Sikh majority) can create problem in the future in Punjab and so he wanted Sikhs to be spread through out India from North to south but Nehru ji interrupted and said "we cannot deprive sikhs from their culture we have faith in them let them live in Punjab" and what did jarnail singh did wasn't that shameful. God

 

[Archived_Member5]

Santy Ji, Maharajah Ranjit was a leader of such prowess, fortitude, integrity, wisdom, humility and renown that all the surrounding states of the Punjab considered themselves blessed to gain such a King as their leader and Monarch. What could the Gandhi’s give to the Sikhs that was not the Sikhs for the taking? You cannot judge a race by its most abject and worst moment of trial. At that time they were facing great pressure as an influential group to convert to either Islam or Hinduism being the two most powerful religions in that time. When they refused as matter of principle they were brutally murdered. Historians distort history for their own false lies and agenda. At this time in eternity there is mass pressure to convert other followers to boost numbers in the absence of any real substance and philosophy of those religions. Seeks have always desisted and have greater moral courage and character for being able to face so many great tyrannies of the ages and remain as strong and steadfast to their faith as they do today. There are still battles to face as the demagoguery circle of power seeks to break any fortress of the Creators where decency, virtue and values still remain. Life is an ongoing battle for those striving to establish social order, cohesiveness and peace amongst all men. I love India and fight harder than most to preserve Sanskrit, the ruleof the Gita, and the strong moral underlying culture and tradition that makes India a nation rich in heritage. I would not sacrifice Sikhism, its territories, its culture, rule of the Adi Granth, and its strong moral foundationstones in any cause at all. Peace requires creation, and dilgent effort, to do so one must have the single minded courage to face the WaheGuru's and the peoples greatest enemy, the media, state and religion.

It is time for mankind to mature, progress towards global unity and the One Supreme Power that is Love, Truth, Peace and Light.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Sat shri akal,
Respected singh ji and jeetijohal ji,

The successful revolutionary is a statesmen,the unsuccessful one a criminal.
--Frich Fromm
I agree to the point that Sant Jarnail singh was a revolutionary and that he never intended to hurt the feelings of India loving Sikhs like me and even that he intended to bring out equal rights for Sikhs but there are several ways to achieve this aim dialogs are the best way look at MD.Jinnah he never picked up a gun and created a nation for his community.why did he chose the battle ground to be the golden temple he wanted Sikhs to assume that Indian government is against Sikhs.The Indian government had full faith in Sikhs right from the formation of free India and this is the reason why Punjabi Sikhs were alloted land in Punjab only this was done by Nehru Ji,sardar vallabhai patel(non-Sikh) the iron man of India was very interesting character of Indian politics he knew Sikhs(or Sikh majority) can create problem in the future in Punjab and so he wanted Sikhs to be spread through out India from North to south but Nehru ji interrupted and said "we cannot deprive sikhs from their culture we have faith in them let them live in Punjab" and what did jarnail singh did wasn't that shameful. God

The successful revolutionary is a statesmen,the unsuccessful one a criminal.
--Frich Fromm

This quote holds no logic or truth to it in this context. The partition of India was not successful. Over a million people were killed because of it. Does this sound like success to you. A man of honor always looks in the best interest of all people, just not his own. Like i said before a man in a suit seems like a hero. Jinnah called for Pakistan and Hindustan. Where is the Sikhs in MD Jinnah’s honorable and successful plan. When told Punjab, including Lahore would go to the Sikhs Jinnah refused it. Is this the man you hold in high regards.

why did he chose the battle ground to be the golden temple he wanted Sikhs to assume that Indian government is against Sikhs

Sant Jarnail ji did not choose anything. The Indian government had many chances to take down Sant Jarnail ji if they wanted too outside of Harmandar Sahib. Look at the date Gandhi picked. The Martyrdom of Guru Arjun Dev ji was on May 30, 1606. And the birth of Guru Hargobind Sahib jis, June 14, 1595. At this time many Sikhs come to Harmandar Sahib and this is the time Gandhi chose to get Sant Jarnail Singh ji. To get one man they need an army of tanks and a complete city lockdown? They arrested him on the accounts of being behind the killing of the Nirankari leader and a Hindu news reporter and now they need an army to take him out. Plus he was in jail for a month without being charged. They had the man in custody, but let him go! Which presents another point, on what accounts were they going after Sant Jarnail ji. Also why were all the reporters put on a bus and taken out of the city? Surely not for protection they were willing to stay and only had to fear the Indian army. Also after the attack why wasn’t anyone allowed in, did the government have to cover something up. Maybe it was the many many many people they killed and then understating the number. Or could it have been the cold blooded attack of point blank range of killing innocent Sikhs. Things don’t add up Saint ji. Also all the cases that are against the government, but none of them are being processed. If the government of Indira Gandhi was trutful these cases would be dismissed in a flash.

The Indian government had full faith in Sikhs right from the formation of free India and this is the reason why Punjabi Sikhs were alloted land in Punjab only this was done by Nehru Ji,sardar vallabhai patel(non-Sikh) the iron man of India was very interesting character of Indian politics he knew Sikhs(or Sikh majority) can create problem in the future in Punjab and so he wanted Sikhs to be spread through out India from North to south but Nehru ji interrupted and said "we cannot deprive sikhs from their culture we have faith in them let them live in Punjab" and what did jarnail singh did wasn't that shameful. God

Really Nehru cared about the Sikhs, well then if he cared about the Sikhs then he had this to say about their homeland in 1931. In 1931 on the accommodation of Sikhs in the upcoming independence, Jawahar Lal Nehru said" I wish I could blow away Punjab from India's map"(in a way he did more than half of it)("Perils of a communal Situation' - editorial in Tribune, July 12,1931).

Two years before 1931, Nehru had made this promise to the Sikhs.

"The Congress assures the Sikhs that no solution in any future Constitution will be acceptable to the Congress that does not give them full satisfaction."
(Indian Constitution Documens, Vol. ii, by A.C. Banarjee)

Was this promise kept. NO I would love to see where you are getting your facts from Saint ji because they are so far from the truth.

Right after the partition of India the relationship of Sikhs and the Indian government was breaking apart because of the lies told by the congress, which Nehru was very much apart of. Also for your own info look up if Indira Gandhi was the daughter of Nehru; really interesting stuff. Its irrelevant, but shows who is pruned to telling lies. And let’s remind everyone of the corrupt government Indira Gandhi was running; it surely says she is trustable.


What did Sant Jarnail Singh ji do that you accuse of him doing????? You present a conclusion before even given facts about Sant ji.

 

[prabhsmart]

Maskinji Has once said that when he was in Paskistan - sindh with his Guruji for a kirtan darbar organised by the small sikh community, they were approached by Sindh's who requested him to come to there Gurudware. Maskinji's Guru agreed and they started walking toward the Gurudware. on the way there was a mosque and people were offering Namaz. Maskinji's Guru on seeing this bowed towards the Mosque and performed a ardass. Maskinji was angry, he asked his Guruji why he was bewoing at a muslim Mosque. the Guruji's reply was, the first word we read in Guru Granth sahib ji is ek Omkar, so when so many people were offering a prayer to a God, i could see my lord there. I didn't bewoed to Allah, but i bowed to Waheguru, I saw my Guru there.

Veerji, even i go to my friends worship place but i see only my Guru there, I bowed to my Guru.
Its well said by Guru Nanak Devji that A statue is stone untill u don't start seeing ur God there. Same way Guru Granth sahib ji is a Book, untill and unless, we don't have a Full respect and we honour it as our only Guru.

Note: Maskinji's Guru here means the person under whom he studied sikhee, it shouldn't be misunderstood for soming thing else. I don't remembered his name so i have used the word Guru.

WaheGuruji Ka Khalsa WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh.

 

[kawalsin]

Gur Fateh

Another aspect to it. If you visit a friend's house where an idol is installed and you do not bow before it, are you not hurting your friend's sentiments? Farid ji says (On Ang 1384)

"ਜੇ ਤਉ ਪਿਰੀਆ ਦੀ ਸਿਕ ਹਿਆਉ ਨ ਠਾਹੇ ਕਹੀ ਦਾ"
" If you wish to meet the Lord, do not break anyone's heart."

However, you could show respect without bowing. That should be OK.

Daas

Kawaljit Singh

 

[kawalsin]

Dear Prabhsmart Ji

Maskin Ji's Guru was Sri Guru Granth sahib Ji and NO human being. And the said episode happened in Mumbai (India) and not in Sindh. Accompnying him was Baba Varyam Singh (If I remember correctly), a highly respected Sikh scholar.

Gur fateh

Kawaljit Singh

 

[Archived_Member4]

Maskinji Has once said that when he was in Paskistan - sindh with his Guruji for a kirtan darbar organised by the small sikh community, they were approached by Sindh's who requested him to come to there Gurudware. Maskinji's Guru agreed and they started walking toward the Gurudware. on the way there was a mosque and people were offering Namaz. Maskinji's Guru on seeing this bowed towards the Mosque and performed a ardass. Maskinji was angry, he asked his Guruji why he was bewoing at a muslim Mosque. the Guruji's reply was, the first word we read in Guru Granth sahib ji is ek Omkar, so when so many people were offering a prayer to a God, i could see my lord there. I didn't bewoed to Allah, but i bowed to Waheguru, I saw my Guru there.

Veerji, even i go to my friends worship place but i see only my Guru there, I bowed to my Guru.
Its well said by Guru Nanak Devji that A statue is stone untill u don't start seeing ur God there. Same way Guru Granth sahib ji is a Book, untill and unless, we don't have a Full respect and we honour it as our only Guru.

Note: Maskinji's Guru here means the person under whom he studied sikhee, it shouldn't be misunderstood for soming thing else. I don't remembered his name so i have used the word Guru.

WaheGuruji Ka Khalsa WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh.

You can't compare Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to a stone. What makes one stone to be worshipped and another not to be worshipped? What makes your stone more value than a regular stone? A stone is a stone, physically they might look different but are the same otherwise. How come you see God in your worshipping stone, but can't see God in the other stone that is of the same value and everything?

GUJRI, PADAS OF NAAM DAYV JEE, FIRST HOUSE: ​

ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:​

If You gave me an empire, then what glory would be in it for me? If You made me beg for charity, what would it take away from me? || 1 || Meditate and vibrate upon the Lord, O my mind, and you shall obtain the state of Nirvaanaa. You shall not have to come and go in reincarnation any longer. || 1 || Pause || You created all, and You lead them astray in doubt. They alone understand, unto whom You give understanding. || 2 || Meeting the True Guru, doubt is dispelled. Who else should I worship? I can see no other. || 3 || One stone is lovingly decorated, while another stone is walked upon. If one is a god, then the other must also be a god. Says Naam Dayv, I serve the Lord. || 4 || 1 || ang 525

Please read Gurbani on worshipping a stone.

 

[prabhsmart]

Hey by no means i am favoring idol worship, i am against it also. What i am saying is respect ever God, we don't worship them, but if we say that all Gods are one, then we should atleast respect them.

 

[pk70]

How we can respect God by showing respect to idols?
I want to see a single Guru Vaak that supports this strange philosophy of new Sikhism! Amazing ! Amazing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[prabhsmart]

I repaet i am not favoring idol worship. if i invite a friend at my place and he visits my home gurudware, i would like him to atleast pretend to repect my lord, same way if i visit a friends house, i must respect his God.
As for ur information i never visit any temples or chuches, or masjid. i don't even know how the church and masjid would look like from inside.

 

[pk70]

Well being not in favor of idol worshiping, you respect idols because your friends who are not Sikhs respect Gurdawara and you feel you should do the same. That is your choice, I am not commenting on that; however, here is your suggestion in your own words
“What i am saying is respect ever God, we don't worship them, but if we say that all Gods are one, then we should at least respect them(.quote prabhsmart)
Here you are using the word “should” and “one God” What ever you do personally, its none of our business but when you say “should” obviously you are suggesting others too to do so. Gurbani doesn’t support us on this.
Like you, I went with my friends to their Temple as we were on a tour, I always stood out side when they paid respect to their revered Idols in the Temple. I never invited them to come to Gurdawara, if they come; I never expect any respect from them for Gurdawara or Sree Guru Granth Sahib because I understand it is not their faith.