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Sikhs In Temples

Jun 1, 2008
183
13
Sat shri akal,:D
all right even if i agree that we bow to show our respect to idols doesnt this post makes clear that guru nanak never respected idols .so is there any need to bow for we as sikhs of Guru nanak dont respect idols following our Guru
agree?
alright so this is for u--THE HINDUS HAVING STRAYED FROM PRIMAL LORD, ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY. THEY WORSHIP IDOLS,AS INSTRUCTED BY NARAD .... THEY, THE IGNORANT ONES,WORSHIP STONE-GODS ,NOT REALISING THAT STONES WHICH THEMSELVES SINK ,CANNOT FERRY OTHERS ACROSS.--Guru Nanak ,BIHAGRA556,
--sainty

this doesnt shows that Guru ji never respected idols?????? is there any need to bow when we dont respect them???????? the final thing at last is bowing.
come on now be a good sikh and accept things the way they r:yes:
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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Sat shri akal,:D
all right even if i agree that we bow to show our respect to idols doesnt this post makes clear that guru nanak never respected idols .so is there any need to bow for we as sikhs of Guru nanak dont respect idols following our Guru
agree?

--sainty

this doesnt shows that Guru ji never respected idols?????? is there any need to bow when we dont respect them???????? the final thing at last is bowing.
come on now be a good sikh and accept things the way they r:yes:
You have completely misunderstood the shabad! Guru Nanak is saying that worshipping idols is ignorance. He never disrespected them!

You have no proof of whether Guru Nanak respected idols or not and neither do I. But SGGS our present Guru, whom we should follow, does not say " dont bow down to idol". Therefore, like Randip SIngh ji said, it s more of a personal thing.

If being a Sikh means believing nonsensical ********, then from today I am NOT a Sikh!:}--}:
OH and BTW Sikhs DO NOT accept the way things are. NONE OF THE GURUS DID!
 
Sat shri akal,:D
:rofl!!::rofl!!::rofl!!::rofl!!::rofl!!:

hmm ic how can u compare idols with elders idols r not alive .:yes:



alright so this is for u--THE HINDUS HAVING STRAYED FROM PRIMAL LORD, ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY. THEY WORSHIP IDOLS,AS INSTRUCTED BY NARAD .... THEY, THE IGNORANT ONES,WORSHIP STONE-GODS ,NOT REALISING THAT STONES WHICH THEMSELVES SINK ,CANNOT FERRY OTHERS ACROSS.--GURU NANAK ,BIHAGRA,556
--sainty
Thank you Saint Soldier this strengths that bowing down to an idol for a Sikh is a wrongful act. If the stone sinks the worshipper sinks then the person that bows in respect sinks.

Sikhs only bow down there head to the Lord. To further understand what I mean by the Lord then read post number 40
 
Jun 1, 2008
183
13
Sat sri akal,
im in the line of fire bhagat ji?
let it be the way it is bhagat ji and lets hope there will be someother posts to support both ur and my ideas .:yes:
 

pk70

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Feb 25, 2008
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Bhagat Singh Ji
Let me first tell that you are entitled to your opinion and do what you feel is right. I hope my following commentary will not hit your ego, if it did, I would ask for your forgiveness.

You think bowing to idols is showing respect, it is not worship, am I right?
Alright, if you want to show respect to the idols that is fine, you have the right to do that but from where you have learnt it as a Sikh? Is it just based on your own assumptions or you are guided by SGGS Ji? As you ask follow members to back up their claim of not to bow before any one but Guru and the Lord, please back up your claim.
As per Guru Ji, only those people worship idols who are extremely ignorant as per quote by First Nanak, please explain me why would you bow to a thing you do not believe in a bit and you know it is an act of ignorance? When Guru ji says” that pond is dirty because there is dirt in it”, Will you still go into dirty pond by saying that Guru ji didn’t say “do not get into the pond?” Is it to please others? Or is it to show respect to the Idol or the worshiper of the Idol?
Both ways, you show that either you have no inkling what Guru says about Idols (not only about worshiping them as you have been repeatedly saying) or it is very easy thing for you to show hypocrisy (bowing to a thing you do not believe in). You, in your mind, know it is a stone, and then your bowing occurs, what kind of sincerity you display?
You are comparing bowing to elders and saying it is just the same. You are dead wrong. Idols are stones, elders are human beings and you show them that you respect them and they accept or compliment your nice behavior, what the stone does in this context?
If you bow to a stone-worshiper in respect, it makes sense though.
Bowing to structures, buildings and Idols is the same, I agree with you.
Bowing to Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not like bowing to elders or Idols. Why? Because we show respect to the knowledge of the Guru we get from SGGS Ji, if that knowledge is not taken and practiced, that bowing becomes an act of hypocrisy as well because relationship of Guru and followers is not limited to bowing but to have knowledge to progress spiritually; in fact, without showing respect, learning doesn’t take place.

Did ever Guru Nanak bow to Idols? Here is the proof that he didn’t (as he didn’t believe in the practice of hypocrisy. Guru Nanak took a stand with rationality and he did nothing for the sake of pleasing others as for him it is the Lord who is important not the people)
ਜਾ ਕਉ ਮਹਲੁ ਹਜੂਰਿ ਦੂਜੇ ਨਿਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਦਰਿ ਦਰਵਾਣੀ ਨਾਹਿ ਮੂਲੇ ਪੁਛ ਤਿਸੁ ਛੁਟੈ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਬੋਲਿ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨਦਰਿ ਜਿਸੁ
Jā ka▫o mahal hajūr ḏūje nivai kis. Ḏar ḏarvāṇī nāhi mūle pucẖẖ ṯis. Cẖẖutai ṯā kai bol sāhib naḏar jis. ||3||
He, who lives close to his Lord's mansion; why should he bow to another? The porter at the Lord's gate, asks him absolutely no question. One is redeemed at the bidding of him on whom is the Lord's grace.
In essence: The one whose mind is set on the Lord and sees Him present, why he should bow to another. At Lord’s court he is not questioned (about this not bowing) at all because with Guru’s bachan he is redeemed as per grace of the Lord
Last but not least, you are a Sikh, we are no one to judge you otherwise.:)
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Here's my take to this:

A bee will never choose to sit on a artificial flower unless it wants to bow down to it and pay its respects. A human being will never worship an idol unless, in his ignorance, he wants to pay respect to the stone.

ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਪੰਚਪਦੇ ਦੁਤੁਕੇ
आसा स्री कबीर जीउ के पंचपदे ९ दुतुके ५
Āsā sarī Kabīr jī▫o ke pancẖpaḏe 9 ḏuṯuke 5
Aasaa, Kabeer Jee, 9 Panch-Padas, 5 Du-Tukas:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਪਾਤੀ ਤੋਰੈ ਮਾਲਿਨੀ ਪਾਤੀ ਪਾਤੀ ਜੀਉ
पाती तोरै मालिनी पाती पाती जीउ ॥
Pāṯī ṯorai mālini pāṯī pāṯī jī▫o.
You tear off the leaves, O gardener, but in each and every leaf, there is life.

ਜਿਸੁ ਪਾਹਨ ਕਉ ਪਾਤੀ ਤੋਰੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਹਨ ਨਿਰਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
जिसु पाहन कउ पाती तोरै सो पाहन निरजीउ ॥१॥
Jis pāhan ka▫o pāṯī ṯorai so pāhan nirjī▫o. ||1||
That stone idol, for which you tear off those leaves - that stone idol is lifeless. ||1||

ਭੂਲੀ ਮਾਲਨੀ ਹੈ ਏਉ
भूली मालनी है एउ ॥
Bẖūlī mālnī hai e▫o.
In this, you are mistaken, O gardener.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜਾਗਤਾ ਹੈ ਦੇਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
सतिगुरु जागता है देउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Saṯgur jāgṯā hai ḏe▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The True Guru is the Living Lord. ||1||Pause||

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਾਤੀ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਡਾਰੀ ਫੂਲ ਸੰਕਰਦੇਉ
ब्रहमु पाती बिसनु डारी फूल संकरदेउ ॥
Barahm pāṯī bisan dārī fūl sankarḏe▫o.
Brahma is in the leaves, Vishnu is in the branches, and Shiva is in the flowers.

ਤੀਨਿ ਦੇਵ ਪ੍ਰਤਖਿ ਤੋਰਹਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਕਿਸ ਕੀ ਸੇਉ ॥੨॥
तीनि देव प्रतखि तोरहि करहि किस की सेउ ॥२॥
Ŧīn ḏev parṯakẖ ṯorėh karahi kis kī se▫o. ||2||
When you break these three gods, whose service are you performing? ||2||

ਪਾਖਾਨ ਗਢਿ ਕੈ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਦੇ ਕੈ ਛਾਤੀ ਪਾਉ
पाखान गढि कै मूरति कीन्ही दे कै छाती पाउ ॥
Pākẖān gadẖ kai mūraṯ kīnĥī ḏe kai cẖẖāṯī pā▫o.
The sculptor carves the stone and fashions it into an idol, placing his feet upon its chest.

ਜੇ ਏਹ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਸਾਚੀ ਹੈ ਤਉ ਗੜ੍ਹਣਹਾਰੇ ਖਾਉ ॥੩॥
जे एह मूरति साची है तउ गड़्हणहारे खाउ ॥३॥
Je eh mūraṯ sācẖī hai ṯa▫o gaṛĥaṇhāre kẖā▫o. ||3||
If this stone god was true, it would devour the sculptor for this! ||3||

ਭਾਤੁ ਪਹਿਤਿ ਅਰੁ ਲਾਪਸੀ ਕਰਕਰਾ ਕਾਸਾਰੁ
भातु पहिति अरु लापसी करकरा कासारु ॥
Bẖāṯ pahiṯ ar lāpsī karkarā kāsār.
Rice and beans, candies, cakes and cookies -

ਭੋਗਨਹਾਰੇ ਭੋਗਿਆ ਇਸੁ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਕੇ ਮੁਖ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੪॥
भोगनहारे भोगिआ इसु मूरति के मुख छारु ॥४॥
Bẖoganhāre bẖogi▫ā is mūraṯ ke mukẖ cẖẖār. ||4||
the priest enjoys these, while he puts ashes into the mouth of the idol. ||4||

ਮਾਲਿਨਿ ਭੂਲੀ ਜਗੁ ਭੁਲਾਨਾ ਹਮ ਭੁਲਾਨੇ ਨਾਹਿ
मालिनि भूली जगु भुलाना हम भुलाने नाहि ॥
Mālin bẖūlī jag bẖulānā ham bẖulāne nāhi.
The gardener is mistaken, and the world is mistaken, but I am not mistaken.

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਹਮ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਖੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ॥੫॥੧॥੧੪॥
कहु कबीर हम राम राखे क्रिपा करि हरि राइ ॥५॥१॥१४॥
Kaho Kabīr ham rām rākẖe kirpā kar har rā▫e. ||5||1||14||
Says Kabeer, the Lord preserves me; the Lord, my King, has showered His Blessings upon me. ||5||1||14||
 
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BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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Bhagat Singh Ji
Let me first tell that you are entitled to your opinion and do what you feel is right. I hope my following commentary will not hit your ego, if it did, I would ask for your forgiveness.
Pk70 ji, its not about my ego. My views change and they have changed before.

You think bowing to idols is showing respect, it is not worship, am I right?
yes

Alright, if you want to show respect to the idols that is fine, you have the right to do that but from where you have learnt it as a Sikh?
I would like your views on"I remember when I did not bow down to anything in the Golden temple except SGGS several months ago because I thought bowing down to trees, small architecture, stones, marble etc would be "idol worship". mom got mad, etc and I understand her now. :}{}{}:"
Is it just based on your own assumptions or you are guided by SGGS Ji?
Its a personal belief, that is not against SGGS in anyway.
As you ask follow members to back up their claim of not to bow before any one but Guru and the Lord, please back up your claim.
I have I will post them all here now. My reasoning, basically where I am coming from. ALl you have to do is go back and read my posts and those of Randip Singh ji.
Recent:
Here's a nother example of bowing down to respect.
When I got to India, I bow down to every elder and I touch their feet. I do that because in Indian culture that is how you show respect to something greater than you (doesn't matter if they are). You don't worship by bowing down to your elders.
another argument:
Do you bow down to SGGS because you are worshipping it?
simple question but I need you to answer before I say something.
Well why do worship gurbani? Is that what Guru Nanak taught? He said worship only the almighty.
BUT let's take worshipping gurbani as your belief. You still bowing down to a book and worshipping it. There is not a whole lot of difference between worshipping a book and worshipping an idol.

Just as you see gurbani in that book, others see god in the idol. :yes:

Now, I bow down to SGGS to respect it. When i enter the hall, I bow down to say Guru ji I am here to learn and do seva. Same as if I would if entered a temple, although I haven't been to one.

I remember when I did not bow down to anything in the Golden temple except SGGS several months ago because I thought bowing down to trees, small architecture, stones, marble etc would be "idol worship". mom got mad, etc and I understand her now. :}{}{}:

Again nowhere in SGGS does it say you cannot bow down to an idol. I rest my case. Gona enjoy the rest of my night in Dreamland. :D
By Randip Singh ji :
Here is my take on this.

I have been taught that you only worship the almighty, and the reason why we bow to the 11th master is as a sign of respect and not worship. We do not worship the word but worship the creator of the word. The creator of the word does not live in any direction. According to Bani God is within us and our goal is to realise God i.e. become Gurmukh.

I don't think there is any harm in showing respect for other religions.Again I have been in Mandhir's but I do not bow down to anything. Infact there are many Hindu's I know that refuse to bow down to statues of God's/demi-Gods. It is about personal choice at the end of the day.

They key here is not to be disrespectful to other religions.
-------
As per Guru Ji, only those people worship idols who are extremely ignorant as per quote by First Nanak, please explain me why would you bow to a thing you do not believe in a bit and you know it is an act of ignorance?
Bowing down is for respect and not worship. In Indian culture NOT bowing down to something greater than you is ignorance. Guru ji did not say to not bow down.
When Guru ji says” that pond is dirty because there is dirt in it”, Will you still go into dirty pond by saying that Guru ji didn’t say “do not get into the pond?”
What do you mean? I guess if I had too and if there was nothing wrong with it being dirty.
Is it to please others? Or is it to show respect to the Idol or the worshiper of the Idol?
??

Both ways, you show that either you have no inkling what Guru says about Idols (not only about worshiping them as you have been repeatedly saying) or it is very easy thing for you to show hypocrisy (bowing to a thing you do not believe in). You, in your mind, know it is a stone, and then your bowing occurs, what kind of sincerity you display?
I bow to my elders even if I don't believe in the same things they do. If I ever meet you I will bow down to you! Bowing down is also a sign of humility. One of our Gurus bowed down and cleaned someone's feet with his beard. (forget exactly what happened there)

You are comparing bowing to elders and saying it is just the same.
Yes it is. Both are sign of respect.

You are dead wrong. Idols are stones, elders are human beings and you show them that you respect them and they accept or compliment your nice behavior, what the stone does in this context?
So you bow to get their compliments? I bow to show respect, same as anything else. Again go back to the Amritsar incident of mine.

If you bow to a stone-worshiper in respect, it makes sense though.
So you cannot bow down to a neutral stone but you can bow down to a obviously ignorant worshipper?
Good job!

Bowing to structures, buildings and Idols is the same, I agree with you.
Bowing to Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not like bowing to elders or Idols. Why?
Well, I think it is the same. All are done to show respect. Oh you didnt want my answer...
Because we show respect to the knowledge of the Guru we get from SGGS Ji,
NOOO really? Are you sure by bowing down you are not worshipping?

if that knowledge is not taken and practiced, that bowing becomes an act of hypocrisy as well because relationship of Guru and followers is not limited to bowing but to have knowledge to progress spiritually; in fact, without showing respect, learning doesn’t take place.
Yes bowing down is the first step like respect is the first step THEN learning takes place. But you can leave it at the respect stage. You respect but just don't want to learn, tere is nothing wrong with that. :yes:


Did ever Guru Nanak bow to Idols?
We don't know that.

Here is the proof that he didn’t (as he didn’t believe in the practice of hypocrisy.
That's no proof.
Guru Nanak took a stand with rationality and he did nothing for the sake of pleasing others as for him it is the Lord who is important not the people)
This is true but no proof of your statement above.
ਜਾ ਕਉ ਮਹਲੁ ਹਜੂਰਿ ਦੂਜੇ ਨਿਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਦਰਿ ਦਰਵਾਣੀ ਨਾਹਿ ਮੂਲੇ ਪੁਛ ਤਿਸੁ ਛੁਟੈ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਬੋਲਿ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨਦਰਿ ਜਿਸੁ
Jā ka▫o mahal hajūr ḏūje nivai kis. Ḏar ḏarvāṇī nāhi mūle pucẖẖ ṯis. Cẖẖutai ṯā kai bol sāhib naḏar jis. ||3||
He, who lives close to his Lord's mansion; why should he bow to another? The porter at the Lord's gate, asks him absolutely no question. One is redeemed at the bidding of him on whom is the Lord's grace.
In essence: The one whose mind is set on the Lord and sees Him present, why he should bow to another. At Lord’s court he is not questioned (about this not bowing) at all because with Guru’s bachan he is redeemed as per grace of the Lord
Last but not least, you are a Sikh, we are no one to judge you otherwise.:)
Of course, I am a Sikh!! ;)
 

pk70

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I would like your views on"[/FONT]I remember when I did not bow down to anything in the Golden temple except SGGS several months ago because I thought bowing down to trees, small architecture, stones, marble etc would be "idol worship". mom got mad, etc and I understand her now(quote Bhagat Singh Ji)


Your Mom was misguiding you, you did the right thing; however, I wonder, how come you successfully differentiated between blind bowing and rational bowing while being with your Mom but in the context of bowing to Idols, it becomes respect for you but bowing to the other things your Mom said, doesn’t appear to be sign of respect. Amazing! Isn't it double standard? What Mom said was not sign of respect but what you do before a stone is a sign of respect.
I have I will post them all here now. My reasoning, basically where I am coming from. ALl you have to do is go back and read my posts and those of Randip Singh ji.

I was just asking your rationality of questioning other members to back up their views when your own views are just coming from” where I am coming from..”
Bowing down is for respect and not worship. In Indian culture NOT bowing down to something greater than you is ignorance. Guru ji did not say to not bow down.
You are mixing things up, bowing to the Idols is not a cultural things, cultural things are done at by large, here that is not the case, you can keep arguing about this, it will never end but it has nothing to do with Gurbani teachings. It depends, as per your own words, from where you come. Cultural and religious acts are certainly different.

What do you mean? I guess if I had too and if there was nothing wrong with it being dirty
I tried to give you a point with an example which you just missed it, let me try again. If Guru ji says” that pond is dirty, there is dirt in it”, now question rises“Why Guru ji is telling us that pond is dirty?" It is a hint to stay away from the pond. Same way, why Guru ji saying that such people who have turned to stones are blind, ignorant. Message is clear that hisfollowers should not fall for those stones. If Stone worshiping is condemned, why Guru ji would ask his followers to respect” stones” Please give me a reason!
Guru ji took this bowing and worshiping of Idols very seriously, look at the words he used”
ਅੰਧੇ ਗੁੰਗੇ ਅੰਧ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ
Anḏẖe gunge anḏẖ anḏẖār.
They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind.

ਪਾਥਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ
/ Pāthar le pūjėh mugaḏẖ gavār.
The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them.

After reading it, if still you think, bowing (paying respect) to stone is alright, so it be for you, but Gurbani doesn’t support it a bit. You can keep Saying” give the proof” when proof is already there. As I said, do whatever you want to do but at least do not base it on Sikh Scriptures. Bowing to the Idols (whom as Sikhs we think they are just stones) is hypocrisy.

I bow to my elders even if I don't believe in the same things they do. If I ever meet you I will bow down to you! BOwing down is also a sign of humility. One of our Gurus bowed down and cleaned someone's feet with his beard. (forget exactly what happened there)
Again, bowing to elders, bowing to stones cannot be the same. Why we bow to elders? To show respect, but why? Just because they are elders as per own your words. Why to show respect to a stone then? It is not elder? It has no feelings; it doesn’t even know you are bowing.( now You can come up with another idea of your own” well SGGS Ji has no feelings as well..” to continue the argument but remember, it contains Gurbani of our revered Guru unlike the stone which is just a stone)
Yes it is. Both are sign of respect.
So you cannot bow down to a neutral stone but you can bow down to a obviously ignorant worshipper?
How it can be the same? The ignorant worshiper is a human being, I respect human beings, if he worships stone, it is his choice, why would I mind it? For me “Stone is a stone, a neutral or not”, who worships them, is a human being, he deserves the respect but not the stone by any reason. I will bow to him as I bow before elders, I do not bow to their views.


Well, I think it is the same. All are done to show respect. Oh you didnt want my answer...
NOOO really? Are you sure by bowing down you are not worshipping?
Your statement is confusing, bowing and worshiping are two different things in context of social behavior and religious ritual acts. When one bows to a religious entity, bowing is more than paying respect, in social context; it is just a sign of respect.
Yes bowing down is the first step like respect is the first step THEN learning takes place. But you can leave it at the respect stage. You respect but just don't want to learn, tere is nothing wrong with that
First step some time turns out to be the last step too. If superficial faith is enough, I have no further comments; if it is more than that, I can continue.

We don't know that

That's no proof.
In the following Guru Nanak speaks against bowing to others, how in dreams he could have bowed to a stone as per your assumptions. What proof more we need. I have no solution for denials. Here it is again
ਜਾ ਕਉ ਮਹਲੁ ਹਜੂਰਿ ਦੂਜੇ ਨਿਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਦਰਿ ਦਰਵਾਣੀ ਨਾਹਿ ਮੂਲੇ ਪੁਛ ਤਿਸੁ ਛੁਟੈ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਬੋਲਿ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨਦਰਿ ਜਿਸੁ
Jā ka▫o mahal hajūr ḏūje nivai kis. Ḏar ḏarvāṇī nāhi mūle pucẖẖ ṯis. Cẖẖutai ṯā kai bol sāhib naḏar jis. ||3||



More if it is accepted by a rational mind, do we need to respect stones? The words are so strong, there is no doubt that stones are not considered worth to be respected by a Sikh at all as per Gurbani

ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਨੀਰੁ ਪਵਾਇਆ
Pāthar ka▫o baho nīr pavā▫i▫ā.
Stones may be kept under water for a long time.

ਨਹ ਭੀਗੈ ਅਧਿਕ ਸੂਕਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
Nah bẖīgai aḏẖik sūkā▫i▫ā. ||2||
Even so, they do not absorb the water; they remain hard and dry. ||2|

MORE
ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਂਈ ਪਾਇ
Jo pāthar kī pāʼn▫ī pā▫e.
Those who fall at the feet of a stone god-

ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਘਾਲ ਅਜਾਂਈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥
Ŧis kī gẖāl ajāʼn▫ī jā▫e. ||1||
their work is wasted in vain. ||1||
 
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Bhagat Singh ji here's another shabad that tells us bowing to idol is useless.

MALAAR, FOURTH MEHL: All the beings and creatures which God has created . on their foreheds, He has written their
destiny. The Lord blesses His humble servant with glorious greatness. The Lord enjoins him to his tasks. || 1 || The True
Guru implants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, within.ang 1263

Chant the Name of the Lord, O Sikhs of the Guru, O my Siblings of Destiny. Only the Lord will carry you across the terrifying
world-ocean. || 1 || Pause || That humble being who worships, adores and serves the Guru is pleasing to my Lord God. To
worship and adore the True Guru is to serve the Lord. In His Mercy, He saves us and carries us across. || 2 || The ignorant
and the blind wander deluded by doubt; deluded and confused, they pick flowers to offer to their idols. They worship lifeless
stones and serve the tombs of the dead; all their efforts are useless. || 3 || He alone is said to be the True Guru, who
realizes God, and proclaims the Sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. Offer the Guru sacred foods, clothes, silk and satin robes of all
sorts; know that He is True. The merits of this shall never leave you lacking. || 4 || The Divine True Guru is the Embodiment,
the Image of the Lord; He utters the Ambrosial Word. O Nanak, blessed and good is the destiny of that humble being, who
focuses his consciousness on the Feet of the Lord. || 5 || 4 || ang 1264



In these ang Guru ji makes it clear, the humble being that worships, adores and serves the Guru is pleasing to my Lord God and to worship and adore the True Guru is to serve the Lord.

Now lets see what Guru ji says about worshiping the idol right after that.


The ignorant and the blind wander deluded by doubt; deluded and confused, they pick flowers to offer to their idols. They worship lifeless stones and serve the tombs of the dead; all their efforts are useless. || 3 ||

Guru ji says just offering flowers to the idol is useless then bowing down to the idol is just as useless if not more.

Once again Guru ji makes this clear.


 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Page 729, Line 16
ਜਾ ਕਉ ਮਹਲੁ ਹਜੂਰਿ ਦੂਜੇ ਨਿਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ॥
जा कउ महलु हजूरि दूजे निवै किसु ॥
Jā ka▫o mahal hajūr ḏūje nivai kis.
And one who lives in the Mansion of the Lord's Presence, why should he bow down to any other?
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
 
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kiram

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Jan 26, 2008
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Page 729, Line 16
ਜਾ ਕਉ ਮਹਲੁ ਹਜੂਰਿ ਦੂਜੇ ਨਿਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ॥
जा कउ महलु हजूरि दूजे निवै किसु ॥
Jā ka▫o mahal hajūr ḏūje nivai kis.
And one who lives in the Mansion of the Lord's Presence, why should he bow down to any other?
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
Namjap ji,

That is a beautiful Shabad indeed... Guru Ji's baani clarifies all doubts, perhaps paving a clear path for those who wish to meet Him... Thank you once again for sharing ji..
 
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BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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So far shabads that mention worshipping idols have been put up. They have been wrongly used to claim that bowing to idols is not allowed in SGGS. I request all participants to put up shabads that deal specifically with bowing and worshipping. We all agreed already that worshipping idols is ignorance (to Sikhs at least).

Pk70 ji, give me sometime to reply to you. You have misunderstood that incident.
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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Page 729, Line 16
ਜਾ ਕਉ ਮਹਲੁ ਹਜੂਰਿ ਦੂਜੇ ਨਿਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ॥
जा कउ महलु हजूरि दूजे निवै किसु ॥
Jā ka▫o mahal hajūr ḏūje nivai kis.
And one who lives in the Mansion of the Lord's Presence, why should he bow down to any other?
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
Namjap ji the bowing in that sentence means surrendering or giving up. Guru ji is saying. Surrender to the Lord and nothing else.
That bowing could also apply to SGGS. Why should you bow to SGGS when you live in the Mansion of the Lord's presence, sorta thing. agreed?
 
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Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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I kinda knew it would come to this. And many Sikhs do not know where the Mansion of the Lord is.
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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I kinda knew it would come to this. And many Sikhs do not know where the Mansion of the Lord is.
Mansion of the Lord is his worlds, his creation. Technically speaking we live in his mansion. :D Nice place he's got eh?

Come to what? PLease explain.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Page 795, Line 9
ਮਨੁ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਤਨੁ ਵੇਸ ਕਲੰਦਰੁ ਘਟ ਹੀ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਵਾ ॥
मनु मंदरु तनु वेस कलंदरु घट ही तीरथि नावा ॥
Man manḏar ṯan ves kalanḏar gẖat hī ṯirath nāvā.
My mind is the temple, and my body is the simple cloth of the humble seeker; deep within my heart, I bathe at the sacred shrine.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Page 875, Line 3
ਹਿੰਦੂ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥
हिंदू पूजै देहुरा मुसलमाणु मसीति ॥
Hinḏū pūjai ḏehurā musalmāṇ masīṯ.
The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque.
Devotee Namdev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Page 102, Line 3
ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਨਾਹੀ ॥
सभ किछु घर महि बाहरि नाही ॥
Sabẖ kicẖẖ gẖar mėh bāhar nāhī.
Everything is within the home of the self; there is nothing beyond.
Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
 

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