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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Here It is pen name of Guru sahib.

How do we know that and why use a pen name ??
ALL NANAKS..used their REAL NAME....and id as Numbers ONLY.
Bhagat, Bhatts, all.... used their REAL names as well...
so did all the others who have Gurbani in SGGS.

WHY PEN NAME..and not just ONE but MANY ???:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
Big TIME:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Gurfateh

Just point over here.

Name (Shri Guru) Nanak (Dev) Ji Maharaj was of first Master only, next 5 contributers of Bani had names Shri Guru Angaddev JI, Shri Guru Amardas Ji, Shri Guru Ramdas Ji, Shri Guru Arajn Dev ,Shri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji.

Just one case of a Bhatt is given over here, where we see that Three names are deemed to be used. Kal, Tal and Kal Sahar.

When we come to Bani of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, das would like to repeat as repeated on the site of Bajrangdal ie hinduunity.org.They said that poems written by poet Nanak sung praise of thier demigod Vishnu.

Das told them that no poem was wriiten by (Shri Guru) Nanak (Dev) either for Vishnu or for God of Sikhs ie Akal(Who is more same to Vedic,Judeo-Christain,Islamic God) then to Hindus demigod.

They are word said by God to the receiver who could be any form of Nanak or Sikh's of Nanak or Bhagats both Hindu and Muslims or Dalits.

Coming to verse onto Tenth Master, there are instance well within Krishna Avtar(in the same verse) and 108 Chritropakhyan where name Ram and Shyam both are coming.

Ek Oankar is start of creation from one in many form of one. But as one missionary at the place of Hakeem T{censored}em Singh Ji(comrade of Dr. Gurmukh Singh Ji) told that God was before Ek ie before one ie at zero or Sunn or sunn Samdhi, Das thinks that God could be even in negative ie -1,-2 tend to infinity. So Ek Oankar is only one attribute of Akal as Akal itself is one Attribute of God.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji were explicit when it is told via him by Akal, that by talking about self God men people make others intangled in self. An entity who has power to give some Guruship has an authority to make new ways. No restriction to King of King.

ਪੰਨਾ 1372, ਸਤਰ 9
ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜੈਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੪੯॥
हरि जनु ऐसा चाहीऐ जैसा हरि ही होइ ॥१४९॥
Har jan aisā cẖāhī▫ai jaisā har hī ho▫e. ||149||
The humble servant of the Lord should be just like the Lord. ||149||
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ

So Lord as per Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

is out of bound for any rule.

If God is bound by rule then that could not be God, at least the God of Sikhs.

Unique thing was done by God via Tenth Master is as follows






ਤਵੱਕ ਨਾਮ ਰੱਤਿਯੰ ਆਨ ਮਾਨ ਮੱਤਿਯੰ
Tavakk naam rattiyaang|| Na aan maan mattiyang||
I am absorbed only in the Name of the Lord, and honour none else.
Line 2


ਪਰੱਮ ਧਿਆਨ ਧਾਰੀਯੰ ਅਨੰਤ ਪਾਪ ਟਾਰੀਯੰ ੩੯
Paramm dhiaan dhaaroohang|| Anant paap taariyang||39||
By meditating on the Supreme, I am absolved of infinite sins.39.
Line 3


ਤੁਮੇਵ ਰੂਪ ਰਾਚਿਯੰ ਆਨ ਦਾਨ ਮਾਚਿਯੰ
Tumev roop raachiyang|| Na aan daan maachiyang||
I am absorbed only in His Sight, and do not attend to any other charitable action.
Line 4


ਤਵੱਕ ਨਾਮ ਉਚਾਰਿਯੰ ਅਨੰਤ ਦੂਖ ਟਾਰਿਯੰ ੪੦
Tavakk naam uchaariyang|| Anant dookh taariyang||40||
By uttering only His Name, I am absolved of infinite sorrows.40.
Line 5

(here we should add term (say) before you)

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਭਏ ਪਹਿਲ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ਆਪੁ ਆਪੁ ਤਿਨ ਜਾਪੁ ਉਚਾਰਾ
Je je bhae pahil avtaaraa|| aap(u) aap(u) tin jaap(u) uchaaraa||
All the earlier incarnations caused only their names to be remembered.
Line 13


ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦੋਖੀ ਕੋਈ ਬਿਦਾਰਾ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਨ ਕੋ ਰਾਹੁ ਡਾਰਾ ੪੪
Prabh dokhoo kooo na bidaaraa|| Dharam karan ko raah(u) na ?aaraa||44||
They did not strike the tyrants and did not make them follow th path of Dharma.44.
Line 14

(here we find that we are told that all God sent people before Sikh Gurus did use their own name. Chapter 5 talks about master before the Tenth Master and is titled Patshahi Baranan(note the term Patshahi, before Tenth Master Gurus were called Mahala as per Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji).

So neither name "Nanak" is name of the poet in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, nor Tenth Master used his name. Yes Tulsidas Ji used his name in Ram Charitarmanas.

Page 542, Line 15
ਸੁੰਦਰ ਸੋਭਾ ਲਾਲ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਦਇਆਲ ਕੀ ਅਪਰ ਅਪਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ॥
सुंदर सोभा लाल गोपाल दइआल की अपर अपारा राम ॥
Sunḏar sobẖā lāl gopāl ḏa▫i▫āl kī apar apārā rām.
The Glory of the Beloved, Merciful Lord of the Universe is beautiful; He is infinite and without limit.
Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


neither our Ten Gurus made us follow them nor the Eleventh Eternal Guru makes us. They make us follow God, directly so we are pure Khalsa[/SIZE] . So if we try to make Akal bounded by Eleventh Eternal Guru's rule(fact is that in originals manuscript s such rule may not occur more in the case of giving topics). We doing the same thing as Swami Dayanada did by bounding Vedic God with Vedas, or way with Testaments some Christains want to bind the God.

(Chapter 6 Bachitar Natak Sahib)
 
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Jul 30, 2004
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Gurfateh

ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਭੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ ॥
सुनीअहु संत सभै चित लाई ॥
O saints; listen to it attentively.

ਬਰਨਤ ਸਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਭਾਈ ॥੧॥
बरनत सयाम जथा मत भाई ॥१॥
The poet Shyam is narrating it according or his own under-standing.1.

So this was the verse which is creating some divergent views regarding its interpretation by various great Sikh scholars.

It may be understood as

Describing Shyam(God) as much liked by view point/ideology.
Describes God as much as liked by view point.

Barnat may mean describes or describing also.
Mat also means faith, ideology, view point(here it goes for Sikh view point) other then mind or intellect.

Likewise bhai may not only mean brother. Bhana means to like. Bhai means liked. As we see that matt could be used in masculine as well as in feminine gender of Hindi.

Like
ਪੰਨਾ 2, ਸਤਰ 8
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥
गुरमुखि नादं गुरमुखि वेदं गुरमुखि रहिआ समाई ॥
Gurmukẖ nāḏaʼn gurmukẖ veḏaʼn gurmukẖ rahi▫ā samā▫ī.
The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.
ਮਃ 1 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Here term Samaya is not used but Samaee is used.

Das hopes that it is more to tell about God as per Sikh Philosophy then say anything to do with any pen name.
[/SIZE]
 
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deepsingh87

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Jun 3, 2007
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

vijaydeep i thought gurbani was suppose to be simple.
but i still can't understand why things changed w/ guru gobind singh ji such as not using nanak as a signature.
need to know the truth. can't live like this.
 

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

deepsingh ji

My thoughts for what they are worth. There is a principle in philosophy called Okam's razor, a 14th century principle originally stated in Latin, now stated in modern terms as follows: “Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable.”

What then is the simple answer to your question? Guru Gobind Singh amended Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to include the Bani of his father Teg Bahadur. Each Guru whose Bani is included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is named as Nanak. Teg Bahadur is Nanak IX. Guru Gobind Singh included none of his own Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Simply put this means that Sri Guru Gobind Singh did not intend to include his Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib when he declared the Guru Granth to be the everlasting Guru. Therefore we never see Guru Gobind Singh named as mehala 10 in that Holy Scripture, by his own intent.
 

deepsingh87

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

so why are there so many different names for guru gobind singh ji in the dasam granth.
 

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

deepsingh ji

Let's clear out some of the confusion. How do we know that Sri Guru Gobind Singh named himself at all in Dasam Granth?

Another one: Did he affix his signature to his Bani in any systematic way throughout the collection of texts we now call Dasam Granth?

I am not asking from stupidity but asking Socratic questions-- i.e., for the sake of analyzing our own thinking. Depending on how my questions are answered we can get a glimpse into the assumptions that a writer is making. That in turn tells us a lot about his/her perspective on the authorship of Dasam Granth. :)
 

spnadmin

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

so why are there so many different names for guru gobind singh ji in the dasam granth.

Another question - How many different names for Guru Gobind Singh ji are there in the Dasam Granth? We would need a list before your question -- why are there so many different names? -- can be answered.
 

deepsingh87

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Jun 3, 2007
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

ਬੁਰਨਤ ਸਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਭਾਈ
some say
ਸਯਾਮ is guru gobind singh ji
vijaydeep says
ਸਯਾਮ is god. which he supports by" ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਾਰਦਾ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਮੰਗਲਾ ਮਿੜਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਿਆਮ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੇਤ ਹੋ "
some say ਸਯਾਮ was a poet. and has nothing to do with guru gobind singh ji. and hence dasam granth is not of dasmesh patshah.
was
ਸਿਆਮ a poet of olden times?

 
Feb 7, 2008
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Tomorrow someone can say why did other Gurus did not conduct Amrit sanchar ceremony? Why did not other gurus gave last name to sikhs. Need to remember that Guru gobind singh was Guru of sikhs. he had the liberty to decide on such issues. Who are we mere mortals to question his decisions.
 
Feb 7, 2008
529
83
Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

deepsingh ji

Let's clear out some of the confusion. How do we know that Sri Guru Gobind Singh named himself at all in Dasam Granth?

Another one: Did he affix his signature to his Bani in any systematic way throughout the collection of texts we now call Dasam Granth?

I am not asking from stupidity but asking Socratic questions-- i.e., for the sake of analyzing our own thinking. Depending on how my questions are answered we can get a glimpse into the assumptions that a writer is making. That in turn tells us a lot about his/her perspective on the authorship of Dasam Granth. :)

His hand written pages and signature are there in Hazuri bir of 1698.
 

deepsingh87

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Jun 3, 2007
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Tomorrow someone can say why did other Gurus did not conduct Amrit sanchar ceremony? Why did not other gurus gave last name to sikhs. Need to remember that Guru gobind singh was Guru of sikhs. he had the liberty to decide on such issues. Who are we mere mortals to question his decisions.

when there are doubts in your mind you need to ask questions. to ignore them and say i am a mortal i have no right question is not good.
 

deepsingh87

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Jun 3, 2007
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

What are those?
ਸਯਾਮ for one. i have recently found out about dasam granth?
i read a article couple of weeks ago. i can't find it. which had the names.
 
Feb 7, 2008
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

some say ਸਯਾਮ was a poet. and has nothing to do with guru gobind singh ji. and hence dasam granth is not of dasmesh patshah.
was
ਸਿਆਮ a poet of olden times?

Words in Gurbani mean as per context. So you have to see where word shyam is used. At places it is used as Akal purakh in both granths i.e. SGGS and Dasam granth.

At places it is used as pen name of Guru sahib. So you have to read and decide.
 
Feb 7, 2008
529
83
Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

when there are doubts in your mind you need to ask questions. to ignore them and say i am a mortal i have no right question is not good.

Your question had been answered earlier. Did you read that.
 

spnadmin

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Tomorrow someone can say why did other Gurus did not conduct Amrit sanchar ceremony? Why did not other gurus gave last name to sikhs. Need to remember that Guru gobind singh was Guru of sikhs. he had the liberty to decide on such issues. Who are we mere mortals to question his decisions.

I thought some mere mortals were questioning you!
 
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