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Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Does Not Support Manusamriti

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Jul 30, 2004
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Note: as per his unique style writer vijaydeep Singh writes in third person where das stands for writer. So it is in narrative style in third person.
Das(vijaydeep Singh) came across an article by Bhai Harmanjeet Singh who uses title “Akali” with him. As Akal and only Akal is God of das so das is happy to read the name of Akal.


Harmanjeet Singh ji are that great Sikh who have used name the khalsa fauj at various forums if das is not mistaken. So with due consideration to the intellect of Harman let us proceed for post mortem of his article in Punjabi,in which brother Harman claims that Shri Dasham Granth Sahib has encouraging for Manu Samriti.

Then he uses verse from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, trying to portray that they are against Manu Samriti. This he does with quoting some text from this book in question.

First let us discuss some thing about Manu. There are about 14 Manus. All have different stories. Some have been kings. But as a writer, people deem Syambho Manu, who was indeed the first human.(for more detail read Mahan Kosh of Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha).

While king Manu is the defeater of Jain people in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib. Well Das has more info on this issue also regarding one Manu related to Matsya Avatar( not in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib’s Matsya Avtar or fish’s decent) as told in Agni Puran. As per story of great flood and this Vavstya Manu saving the species in boat makes this Manu same as Hazrat Nuh Ahle Sallah or Prophet Noah. So in any case king Manu defeating Jain people could not be the Svyambhu Manu or the primary human as per so called Hindu texts as he comes after the Avtar of Arihant Dev. Parshuram, Nar Naryan are other Humans mentioned before this Manu of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib.

Then there is another fact. Manu who so ever Manu was not the writer of Manu Samriti. It was Rishi Bhrigu who wrote it based upon Manav Dharamshatra’s Sutra which was work of the Manu.

Thing does not ends here. There is a book called Manu Ambedkar and Caste System by Prof. K V Paliwal published by Hindu Writer Forum, New Delhi.

This book proves that present day Manu Samriti is not the same as original.

Few points been given.

  • By things contradictory to Vedas in it.
  • Commentary of Medhatithi on Manu Samriti getting mixed into it.
  • Number of Verses told in Narad Samrit regarding Manu Samriti being different to present day version.
  • As per research there has been variation in various copies of present day Manu Samriti(page 34-35) so there are more then one version of this text.
  • Prof. Paliwal says that other then Vedas all Hindu text are adulterated(das here feels contradiction in his views as Das is aware that like Manu Samriti one Veda itself could have many versions).
There are three theories about Manu Samriti in Hindus.

  • Let is remain the way it is but verse be re interpreted from Sanskrit. (orthodox reforming view of Hindus)
  • Let is interpolation be removed with Vedas and other Puranic texts’ help(We could call it more like RSS’s views)
  • Arya Samaji view of using logical justification(Nyaya Shashtra) with help of Vedas. This way is used very much by Sikhs missionaries presently as Dayanada used it and Bhagmal Ambala used it. Prof Surendra Kumar has come out with Vishudh Manu Samriti from Arsha Sahitya Prachar Trust, 455, Khari Baoli, New Delhi.
In fact there is something called Vitandana or slander towards fact by Chhal(immoral) ways which misinterpret the good thing as bad and try to oppose it thereafter. This is way of Nayay Shashtra . So by them selves using the 5th Hindu Philosophy which is not allowed in Gurmat left oriented people try to find space in Sikhism. There is no problem in Sikhism and these atheist leftist have nothing to offer to faith, so they fabricate the enemies and then tell Sikhs that they are fighting these fake enemies. Just to gain followers and resultant benefits.

So here we go.


ਬੁਰਨਤ ਸਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਭਾਈ
Barnat Syaam jathaa mat bhaaee||1||
(Chaubees Avtar 1)
From this line Harman Ji has tried to prove that being the work of poet Syaam this could not be the Tenth Master.

Well das told Harman jI before also that non of work of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib is the poetry of Tenth Master as a Human. It is work of God.

Syaam is term used for Akal in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji. As


Page 37, Line 8


ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਾਰਦਾ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਮੰਗਲਾ ਮਿੜਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਿਆਮ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੇਤ ਹੋ
Kahoon devbaanoo kahoon Saardaa Bhavaanoo kahoon Manglaa miraanookahoon siaam kahoon set ho||
Somewhere Thou art the divine speech, somewhere Sarada and Bhavani, somewhere Durga, the trampler of corpses, somewhere in black colour and somewhere in white colour.
(Akal Ustat 4|14)
ਸੁਭੰ ਰੂਪ ਸਿਆਮ ਮਹਾ ਸੋਭ ਧਾਮੰ
Subhang roop siaamang|| Mahaa sobh dhaamang||
His dark form looks elegant and is the abode of Great Glory.
Line 1


ਛਬੇ ਚਾਰੁ ਚਿਤ੍ਰੰ ਪਰੇਅੰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੰ ੩੪
Chhabe chaar(u) chitrang|| Pareang pavitrang||34||
On his face there are lovely delineations, which are superbly holy. 34.
(Vachitar Natak 1.34)
ਮਹਾ ਸੁੰਦ੍ਰ ਸਿਆਮ ਮਹਾਂ ਅਭਿਰਾਮੰ ਮਹਾਂ ਰੂਪ ਰੂਪੰ ਮਹਾਂ ਕਾਮ ਕਾਮੰ ੫੯
Mahaa sundra siaamang mahaan abhiraamang|| Mahaan roop roopang mahaan kaam kaamang||59||
The most beautiful black colour highly fascinates the mind, Thou art the most beautiful of the beautiful once and the most passionate of he passionate once.59.
(Vachitar Natak 1.59)

Varnat Syam Jatha Mati Bhai also means.
O Brother! By as much capability of mind, Syam ie Akal has been described. It amy also means Oh Brother !Describes the God in the way(of) /same as mind.

So God being same as mind or intellect of God overtaking mind describes some thing.

So let us first see that what does Chaubees Avtar say about incarnation of god or Avtarvad as Harman claims that this text in question encourages gods taking birth while Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are against this.

So here we go.

ਚੌਪਈ
Chaupaee||
CHAUPAI

Page 413, Line 9


ਕਾਲ ਆਪਨੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਛਪਾਈ
Kaal aapano naam(u) chhapaaee||
The KAL (Temporal Lord) conceals his name,

Page 413, Line 10


ਅਵਰਨ ਕੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਦੈ ਬੁਰਿਆਈ
Avran ke sir(i) dai buriaaee||
And imposes the villainy over the head of others;

Page 413, Line 11


ਆਪਨ ਰਹਤ ਨਿਰਾਲਮ ਜਗ ਤੇ
aapan rahat niraalam jag te||
He Himself remains detached from the world,

Page 413, Line 12


ਜਾਨ ਲਏ ਜਾ ਨਾਮੈ ਤਬ ਤੇ
Jaan lae jaa naamai tab te||5||
I know this fact from the very beginning (ancient times).5.

ਆਪ ਰਚੈ ਆਪੇ ਕਲ ਘਾਏ
aap rachai aape kal ghaae||
He creates Himself and destroys Himself;

Page 414, Line 1


ਅਵਰਨ ਕੈ ਦੈ ਮੂੰਡ ਹਤਾਏ
Avran kai dai moon? hataae||
But He imposes the responsibility on the head of others;

Page 414, Line 2


ਆਪ ਨਿਰਾਲਮੁ ਰਹਾ ਪਾਯਾ
aap niraalam(u) rahaa na paayaa||
He Himself remains detached and Beyond Everything;

Page 414, Line 3


ਤਾਂਤੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯਾ
Taante naam(u) biant kahaayaa||6||
Therefore, He is called ‘Infinite’.6.

ਚੌਪਈ
Chaupaee||
CHAUPAI

Page 414, Line 5


ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ
Jo chaubees avtaar kahaae||
Those who are called twenty-four incarnations;

Page 414, Line 6


ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਕ ਪਾਏ
Tin bhitum Prabh tanak na paae||
O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure;

Page 414, Line 7


ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵ ਰਾਯੰ
Sabh hijag bharme bhav raayang||
They became kings of the world and got deluded;

Page 414, Line 8


ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ
Taa te naam(u) biant kahaayang||7||
Therefore they were called by innumerable names.7.

Page 414, Line 9
ine 6


ਚੌਪਈ
Chaupaee||
CHAUPAI

Page 416, Line 7


ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਕਹੂੰ ਤਾਹਿ ਲਖਾਯੋ
Kinhoon kahoon na taah(i) lakhaayo||
None hath been able to comprehend Thee,

Page 416, Line 8


ਇਹ ਕਰ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲੱਖ ਕਹਾਯੋ
Ih kar naam(u) alakkh kahaayo||
Therefore thou hast been called ‘Alakh’ (Incompre-hensible);

Page 416, Line 9


ਜੋਨ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਆਯਾ
Jon jagat mai kab-hoon na aayaa||
Thou dost not take birth in the world;

Page 416, Line 10


ਯਾਤੇ ਸਭੋਂ ਅਜੋਨ ਬਤਾਯਾ ੧੩
Yaate sabhon ajon bataayaa||13||
Therefore all called Thee ‘Ajon’ (Unborn).13.


ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਪਚਹਾਰੇ
Brahmaadik sabh hipach-haare||
Brahma and others have got tired in knowing Thy end;

Page 416, Line 13


ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ੍ਵਰ ਕਉਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੇ
Bisan Mahesvar kaun bichaare||
Who are the helpless gods Vishnu and Shiva?

Page 416, Line 14

ਚੰਦ ਸੂਰ ਜਿਨ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ
Chand soor jin kare bichaaraa||
The sun and moon also meditate on Thee;

Page 417, Line 1


ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਨੀਯਤ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ੧੪
Taa te janeeyat hai Kartaaraa||14||
Therefore Thou art known as the Creator.14.

Page 417, Line 2

Page 423, Line 4


ਬਲੀ ਅਬਲੀ ਦੋਊ ਉਪਜਾਏ
Baliabalidooo upjaae||
That Lord created both the powerful and the weak;

Page 423, Line 5


ਊਚ ਨੀਚ ਕਰ ਭਿੰਨ ਦਿਖਾਏ
ooch neech kar bhinn dikhaae||
They were shown distinctly as high and low;

Page 423, Line 6


ਬਪੁ ਧਰ ਕਾਲ ਬਲੀ ਬਲਵਾਨਾ
Bap(u) dhar kaal balibalvaanaa||
The powerful KAL, adopting the physical form,

Page 423, Line 7


ਆਪਨ ਰੂਪ ਧਰਤ ਭਯੋ ਨਾਨਾ ੩੨
aapan roop dharat bhayo naanaa||32||
Manifested Himself in numerous forms.32.

Page 423, Line 8


ਚੌਪਈ
Chaupaee||
CHAUPAI

Page 423, Line 9


ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਜਿਮੁ ਦੇਹ ਧਰਾਏ
Bhinn bhinn jim(i) deh dharaae||
According as the Lord adopted different forms,

Page 423, Line 10


ਤਿਮੁ ਤਿਮੁ ਕਰ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ
Tim(u) tim(u) kar avtaar kahaae||
In the same manner, he became renowned as different incarnations;

Page 423, Line 11


ਪਰਮ ਰੂਪ ਜੋ ਏਕ ਕਹਾਯੋ
Param roop jo ek kahaayo||
But whatever is the Supreme form of the Lord;

Page 423, Line 12


ਅੰਤ ਸਭੋ ਤਿਹ ਮੱਧਿ ਮਿਲਾਯੋ ੩੩
Ant sabho tih maddh(i) milaayo||33||
Ultimately all merged in Him.33.

ਜਿਤਿਕ ਜਗਤਿ ਕੇ ਜੀਵ ਬਖਾਨੋ
Jitik jagat(i) ke jeev bakhaano||
Consider all the beings in the world,

Page 424, Line 1


ਏਕ ਜੋਤ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨੋ
Ek jot sabh himaih jaano||
Ad the illumination of the same Light,

Page 424, Line 2


ਕਾਲ ਰੂਪ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਭਨੈਬੋ
Kaal roop Bhagvaan bhanaibo||
The Lord, Who is known as KAL;

Page 424, Line 3


ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਲੀਨ ਜਗਤਿ ਸਭ ਹ੍ਵੈਬੋ ੩੪
Taa maih leen jagat(i) sabh hvaibo||34||
All the world will merge in Him.34.

Page 424, Line 4
ਚੌਪਈ
Chaupaee||
CHAUPAI

Page 424, Line 10


ਸਭ ਹੀ ਮਹਿ ਰਮ ਰਹਯੋ ਅਲੇਖਾ
Sabh himaih ram rahyo alekhaa||
That inconceivable Lord pervades all;

Page 424, Line 11


ਮਾਗਤ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਤੇ ਲੇਖਾ
Maagat bhinn bhinn te lekhaa||
And all the beings beg from him according to their writ;

Page 424, Line 12


ਜਿਨ ਨਰ ਏਕ ਵਹੈ ਠਹਰਾਯੋ
Jin nar ek vahai thahraayo||
He, who hath comprehended the Lord as One,

Page 424, Line 13


ਤਿਨਹੀ ਪਰਮ ਤੱਤੁ ਕਹ ਪਾਯੋ ੩੬
Tinhiparam tatt(u) kah paayo||36||
Only he hath realized the Supreme Essence.36.

Page 424, Line 14

ਚੌਪਈ
Chaupaee||
CHAUPAI

Page 425, Line 6


ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਸਭਹੂੰ ਉਪਜਾਯੋ
Bhinn bhinn sabh-hoon upjaayo||
He hath created all in separate forms;

Page 425, Line 7


ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਕਰ ਤਿਨੋ ਖਪਾਯੋ
Bhinn bhinn kar tino khapaayo||
And He Himself destroys all;

Page 425, Line 8


ਆਪ ਕਿਸੂ ਕੋ ਦੋਸ ਲੀਨਾ
aap kisoo ko dos na leenaa||
He doth not take any blame on His own Head;

Page 425, Line 9


ਅਉਰਨ ਸਿਰ ਬੁਰਿਆਈ ਦੀਨਾ ੩੮
Auran sir buraaideenaa||38||
And fixes the responsibility of vicious acts on others.38.
(Das gave only a few quotes from 1 to 38 of Chaubees Avtar)

Still good is to read all 38. which tells that Bhavani is manifestation of Akal in for of glory and nothing else.

But let us now see that does Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Support Samritis ?


ਕੋਟਿ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਆਵਈ ਵਹੁ ਚਿੱਤਿ ੮੬
Kottee Sinmrit Puraan na aavaoo vahu chitt(i)||86||
None can comprehend thee completely through millions of Smritis, Puranas and Shastras.86.
Line 12
(Japu Sahib 86)

ਏਕ ਸਿਵ ਭਏ ਏਕ ਗਏ ਏਕ ਫੇਰ ਭਏ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭੀ ਅਨੇਕ ਹੈਂ
Ek Siv bhae ek gae ek pher bhae, Raamchandra Krishan ke avtaar bhoo anek hain||
There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being; there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna.
Line 10


ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਅਰੁ ਬਿਸਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਮੂਹਨ ਕੈ ਹੁਇ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਤਦੇ ਹੈਂ
Brahmaa ar(u) Bisan kete Bed au Puraan kete, Sinmrit(i) samoohan kai hue hue bitae hain||
There are many Brahmas and Vishnus, there are many Vedas and Puranas, there have been the authors of all the Smritis, who created their works and passed away.
Line 11


ਮੋਨਦੀ ਮਦਾਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਅਸੁਨੀ ਕੁਮਾਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਅੰਸਾ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਬਸ ਭਏ ਹੈਂ
Monadoo madaar kete Asunoo Kumaar kete, ansaa avtaar kete kaal bas bhae hain||
Many religious leaders, many chieftains of clans, many Ashwani Kumars and many degrees of incarnations, they had all been subject to death.
Line 12


ਪੀਰ ਪਿਕਾਂਬਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਗਨੇ ਪਰਤ ਏਤੇ ਭੁਮ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਭੁਮਿ ਹੀ ਮਿਲਏ ਹੈਂ ੭੭
Pir au pikaanbar kete gane na parat ete, bhoom hoo te hue kai pher(i) bhoom(i) hoo milae hain||7||77||
Many Muslim preceptors (Pirs) and Prophets, who cannot be count ed, they were born out of the earth, ultimately merged in the earth. 7.77.
(Akal Ustat 77)



ਪਰਮ ਤੱਤ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪਛਾਨਾ ਆਪ ਆਪ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਉਰਝਾਨਾ
Param tatt kinhoon na pachhaanaa|| aap aap bhootar(i) urjhaanaa||
Nobody recognized the Supreme Essence, but was entangled within himself.

Page 134, Line 8


ਤਬ ਜੇ ਜੇ ਰਿਖਰਾਜ ਬਨਾਏ ਤਿਨ ਆਪਨ ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਚਲਾਏ ੧੭
Tab je je rikhraaj bahaae|| Tin aapan pun Sinmrit chalaae||17||
All the great rishis (sages), who were then created, produced their own Smritis.17.

Page 134, Line 9


ਜੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਤਿਆਗੀ
Je Sinmritan ke bhae anuraagoo|| Tin(i) tin(i) kriaa Brahm koo tiaagoo||
All those who became followers of these smritis, they abandoned the path of the Lord.

Page 134, Line 10


ਜਿਨ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ਸੋ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਹ ਆਯੋ ੧੮
Jin man Har(i) charnan thihraayo|| So Sinmritan ke raah na aayo||18||
Those who devoted themselves to the Feet of the Lord, they did not adopt the path of the Smritis.18.
(Vachitar Natak 6.17,6.18)


ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਜਾਨਯੋ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ੮੬੩
Sinmrit(i) Saasta Bed sabhai bahu bhed kahai ham ek naa jaanyo|| Sriasipaan kripaa tumrikar(i) main a kahyo sabh tohe bakhaanyo||863||
The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?.863.

Page 642, Line 13
(Ramavtar(of Chaubees Avtar) 642)

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਭੇਦ ਲਹਯੋ ਤਿਹਿ ਸਿੱਧ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਿ ਹਾਰੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ
Bed Ketab na bhed lahyo tih(i) siddh samaadh(i) sabhai kar(i) haare|| Sinmrit shaastra Bed shaastra bhau bhaant(i) Puraan bichaar beechaare||
The Vedas and Ketebs could not comprehend His Mystery and the adepts have been defeated in practising contemplation; various thought have been mentioned about God in Vedas, Shastras, Puranas and smrities;

Page 1351, Line 10


ਆਦਿ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਕਥਾ ਧ੍ਰੂਅ ਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦਿ ਅਜਾਮਲ ਤਾਰੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਚਾਰ ਤਰੀ ਗਨਿਕਾ ਸੋਈ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰ ਬੀਚਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੇ ੧੦
aadh anaadh agaadh(i) kathaa Dhrooa se Praihlaadh Ajaamal taare|| Naam(u) uchaar tariGanikaa so naam adhaar beechaar hamaare||10||
The Lord-God is Primal, Beginningless and unfathomable; stories are current about Him redeemed Dhruva, Prehlad and Ajamil; by remembering His name even Ganika was saved and the support of His name is also with us.10.

Page 1351, Line 11
(33 Svayye 10)
Verse 42 of Chartropakhyan 266 talks of Brahmins saying samritis etc. for monetary gains.

So bounding of God with Samritis is not allowed at all in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.

There is only one line which is used by Harman Ji to prove that Manu Raj Avtar has something pro to Manu Samriti which as follows.





ਮਨੁ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਰਾਜਵਤਾਰ ਅਵਤਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਚੁਰ ਜਗ ਕਰਾ
Manu hvai raajavtaar avtaraa|| Manu simritah(i) prachur jag karaa||
Vishnu manifested himself as king Manu and propagated Manu Smriti in the world.
Line 2


ਸਕਲ ਕੁਪੰਥੀ ਪੰਥ ਚਲਾਏ ਪਾਪ ਕਰਮ ਤੇ ਲੋਗ ਹਟਾਏ
Sakal kupanthipanth chalaae|||| Paap karam te log hataae||3||
He brought all the corrupt persons on the right path and cused the people to become devoid of sinful actions.3.
(Manu Avtar 3)

But does this actually means Manu Samriti as been translated ?

As per Scholars like Bhai Veer Singh Ji, Chaubees Avtar are just translation of old text. So it is just translation word by word and not the endorsement of any Manu Samriti(see Devi Pujan Partal by Bhai Veer Singh, where he talks about Chaubees avtar as only translations)

But Samriti also literally means memory.

And it is used in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji also for the same meaning. As we see below

ਜੀਤ ਭਈ ਰਨ ਭਯੋ ਉਝਾਰਾ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਭ ਘਰੋ ਸਿਧਾਰਾ
Joot bhaoo ran bhayo ujhaaraa|| Simrit(i) kar(i) sabh gharo sidhaaraa||
The victory was gained and the battle ended. While remembering homes, all went there.
Line 13
(Vachitar Natak 11.69)

Whole Manu Avtar is being told to be taken for eliminating Jainism .


Page 495, Line 11


ਸ੍ਰਾਵਗ ਮਤ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਨ ਲਾਗੇ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਜ ਭਾਗੇ
Sraavag mat sabh hijan laage||dharam karam sabh hitaj bhaage||
All the people were absorbed in Shravak Religion (Jainism) and all abandoned the action of Dharma.

Page 495, Line 12


ਤਯਾਗ ਦਈ ਸਭ ਹੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਕੋਇ ਮਾਨਤ ਭੇ ਗੁਰਦੇਵਾ
Tyaag daisabh hoon Har(i0 sevaa|| Koe na maanat bhe gurdevaa||1||
All of them forsook the service of the Lord and none worshipped the Supreme preceptor (the Immanent Lord).1.

Page 495, Line 13


ਸਾਧਿ ਅਸਾਧਿ ਸਭੈ ਹੁਐ ਗਏ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਸਭ ਹੂੰ ਤਜ ਦਏ
Sadh(i) asaadh(i) sabhai huai gae|| Dharam karam sabh hoon taj dae||
The saints became devoid of saintliness and all abandoned the action of Dharma;

Page 495, Line 14

ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਆਗਯਾ ਤਬ ਦੀਨੀ ਬਿਸਨ ਚੰਦ ਸੋਈ ਬਿਧਿ ਕੀਨੀ
Kaal purakh aagyaa tab deenee|| Bisan chand soibidh(i) keenee||2||
Then the Immanent Lord ordered Vishnu, who did as commanded.2.

Page 496, Line 1
Very cleverly Harman Ji has concealed these verses. Very Good bro!


ਨਾਮ ਦਾਨ ਸਭਹੂੰਨ ਸਿਖਾਰਾ ਸ੍ਰਾਵਗ ਪੰਥ ਦੂਰ ਕਰ ਡਾਰਾ
Naam daan sabh-hoonn sikhaaraa|| Sraavag panth door kar ?aaraa||5||
Now all attained the instructions about the Name of the Lord and about virtuous actions like charity etc. And in this way, the king got abandoned the discipline of Sharavaks.5.

Page 496, Line 7

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਭਾਜ ਦੂਰ ਕਹੁ ਗਏ ਸ੍ਰਾਵਗ ਧਰਮ ਸੋਊ ਰਹਿ ਗਏ
Je je bhaaj door kauh gae|| Sraavag dharam sooo rah(i) gae||
The people who had run away from the kingdom of the king Manu, they only remained adherents of Sharavak Religion.

Page 496, Line 8


ਅਉਰ ਪ੍ਰਜਾ ਸਭ ਮਾਰਗ ਲਈ ਕੁਪੰਥ ਪੰਥ ਤੇ ਸੁਪੰਥ ਚਲਈ
Aur prajaa sabh maarag laee|| Kupanth panth te supanth chalaee||6||
All the remaining subjects followed the path of Dharma and abandoning the wrong path, acquired the path of Dharma.6.

Page 496, Line 9

ਪੰਥ ਕੁਪੰਥੀ ਸਭ ਲਗੇ ਸ੍ਰਾਵਗ ਮਤ ਭਯੋ ਦੂਰ
Panth kupanthisabh lage sraavag mat bhayo door||
All those who tread on the wrong paths, began to follow the right path and in this way, the Sharvak Religion receded far away.

Page 496, Line 13


ਮਨੁ ਰਾਜਾ ਕੋ ਜਗਤ ਮੋ ਰਹਿਯੋ ਸੁ ਜਸੁ ਭਰਪੂਰ
Manu raajaa ko jagat mo rahiyo su jas(u) bharpoor||8||
For this work, the king Manu was highly venerated in the whole world.8.

Page 496, Line 14

Over here Term Sravag or Jainism is being used which was destroyed by Manu.

Just before this we have an Avtar of Arihant Dev.

Who started Jainism .

See a few quotes of some use.


ਬਿਸਨ ਬੋਲ ਕਰਿ ਕਰੋ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ਅਬ ਕਛੁ ਕਰੋ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਅਸੁਰਾਰਾ
Bisan bol kar(i) karo bichaaraa|| Ab kachh(u) karo mantra asuraaraa||
All the gods went to meet Vishnu and said, “ O destroyer of demons; take some steps now.”

Page 492, Line 14
(Arihant Dev Verse 5)
Note that term Mantra here is referred to plan/steps to be taken.


ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਤਬ ਭਏ ਦਇਆਲਾ ਦਾਸ ਦਾਨ ਕਹ ਬਚਨ ਰਿਸਾਲਾ
Kaal purakh tab bhae diaalaa|| Daas daan kah bachan risaalaa||
The Immanent Lord, then became Merciful and addressed his servant Vishnu with sweet words,

Page 493, Line 4


ਧਰ ਅਰਹੰਤ ਦੇਵ ਕੋ ਰੂਪਾ ਨਾਸ ਕਰੋ ਅਸੁਰਨ ਕੇ ਭੂਪਾ
Dhar arhant Dev ko roopaa|| Naas karo asuran ke bhoopaa||7||
“O Vishnu, manifest yourself in the forms of Arhant, and destroy the kings of the demons.”7.

Page 493, Line 5


ਬਿਸਨ ਦੇਵ ਆਗਯਾ ਜਬ ਪਾਈ ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਕਰੀ ਬਡਾਈ
Bisan dev aagyaa jab paaee|| Kaal purakh kikariba?aaee||
Vishnu, after receiving the orders of the Immanent Lord, eulogized him.

Page 493, Line 6


ਭੂਅ ਅਰਹੰਤ ਦੇਵ ਬਨ ਆਯੋ ਆਨ ਅਉਰ ਹੀ ਪੰਥ ਚਲਾਯੋ
Bhooa Arhant Dev ban aayo|| aan aur hipangh chalaayo||8||
He manifested himself as Arhant Dev on the earth and started a new religion.8.

Page 493, Line 7


ਜਬ ਅਸੁਰਨ ਕੋ ਭਯੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਆਈ ਬਹੁਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਨਿਜ ਮਤਹਿ ਚਲਾਈ
Jab asuran ko bhyo gur(u) aaee|| Bahut(i) bhaant(i) nij matah(i) chalaaee||
When he became the preceptor of the demons, he started different kinds of sects.

Page 493, Line 8


ਸ੍ਰਾਵਗ ਮਤ ਉਪਰਾਜਨ ਕੀਆ ਸੰਤ ਸਬੂਹਨ ਕੋ ਸੁਖ ਦੀਆ
Sraavat mat upraajan keeaa|| Sant saboohan ko sukh deeaa||9||
One of the sects he started was Shravak sect (Jainism) and bestowed supreme comfort to the saints.9.

Page 493, Line 9
(Arihant Dev 7,8 and 9)
ਦੋਹਰਾ
Dohraa||
DOHRA

Page 494, Line 4


ਅੰਨਿ ਅੰਨਿ ਤੇ ਹੋਤੁ ਜਯੋ ਘਾਸਿ ਘਾਸਿ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ
Ann(i) ann(i) te hot(u) jyo ghaas(i) ghaas(i) te hoe||
Just as corn is produced from corn, grass from grass;

Page 494, Line 5


ਤੈਸੇ ਮਨੁਛ ਮਨੁਛ ਤੇ ਅਵਰੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਕੋਇ ੧੪
Taise manuchh manuchh te avar(u) na kartaa koe||14||
In the same way the man from man (thus there is no creator-Ishvara).14.

Page 494, Line 6


ਚੌਪਈ
Chaupaee||
CHAUPAI

Page 494, Line 7


ਐਸ ਗਿਆਨ ਸਭਹੂਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਯੋ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਕੋਊ ਕਰਨ ਪਾਯੋ
Ais giaan sabh-hoon dri?aayo|| Dharam karam kooo karan na paayo||
Such a knowledge was given to all that none performed the action of Dharma.

Page 494, Line 8


ਇਹ ਬ੍ਰਿਤ ਬੀਚ ਸਭੋ ਚਿਤ ਦੀਨਾ ਅਸੁਰ ਬੰਸ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਯੋ ਛੀਨਾ ੧੫
Eh brit beech sabho chit deenaa|| Asur bans taa te bhyo chheenaa||15||
Everyone’s mind was absorbed in such things and in this way, the clan of demons became weak.15.

Page 494, Line 9
(Arihant Dev Avtar 14 and 15)

So Jainism is proven to be an atheist philosophy. But they also have another quality which is to have shaven head. Das only gives one verse about them from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

(੧੪੯-੧੫, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਸਲੋਕੁ
salok ma 1 ||
Shalok, First Mehl:
14 null null


(੧੪੯-੧੫, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਸਿਰੁ ਖੋਹਾਇ ਪੀਅਹਿ ਮਲਵਾਣੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਖਾਹੀ
sir khohaae peeahi malavaanee joothaa mang mang khaahee ||
They pluck the hair out of their heads, and drink in filthy water; they beg endlessly and eat the garbage which others have thrown away.
15 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੪੯-੧੫, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਫੋਲਿ ਫਦੀਹਤਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਲੈਨਿ ਭੜਾਸਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਦੇਖਿ ਸਗਾਹੀ
fol fadheehath muhi lain bharraasaa paanee dhaekh sagaahee ||
They spread manure, they suck in rotting smells, and they are afraid of clean water.
15 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੪੯-੧੬, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਭੇਡਾ ਵਾਗੀ ਸਿਰੁ ਖੋਹਾਇਨਿ ਭਰੀਅਨਿ ਹਥ ਸੁਆਹੀ
bhaeddaa vaagee sir khohaaein bhareean hathh suaahee ||
Their hands are smeared with ashes, and the hair on their heads is plucked out-they are like sheep!
16 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੪੯-੧੬, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਮਾਊ ਪੀਊ ਕਿਰਤੁ ਗਵਾਇਨਿ ਟਬਰ ਰੋਵਨਿ ਧਾਹੀ
maaoo peeoo kirath gavaaein ttabar rovan dhhaahee ||
They have renounced the lifestyle of their mothers and fathers, and their families and relatives cry out in distress.
16 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੪੯-੧੭, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਓਨਾ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਤਲਿ ਕਿਰਿਆ ਦੀਵਾ ਮੁਏ ਕਿਥਾਊ ਪਾਹੀ
ounaa pindd n pathal kiriaa n dheevaa mueae kithhaaoo paahee ||
No one offers the rice dishes at their last rites, and no one lights the lamps for them. After their death, where will they be sent?
17 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੪੯-੧੭, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਦੇਨਿ ਢੋਈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣ ਅੰਨੁ ਖਾਹੀ
athasath theerathh dhaen n dtoee brehaman ann n khaahee ||
The sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage give them no place of protection, and no Brahmin will eat their food.
17 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੪੯-੧੮, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਸਦਾ ਕੁਚੀਲ ਰਹਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਥੈ ਟਿਕੇ ਨਾਹੀ
sadhaa kucheel rehehi dhin raathee mathhai ttikae naahee ||
They remain polluted forever, day and night; they do not apply the ceremonial tilak mark to their foreheads.
18 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੪੯-੧੮, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਝੁੰਡੀ ਪਾਇ ਬਹਨਿ ਨਿਤਿ ਮਰਣੈ ਦੜਿ ਦੀਬਾਣਿ ਜਾਹੀ
jhunddee paae behan nith maranai dharr dheebaan n jaahee ||
They sit together in silence, as if in mourning; they do not go to the Lord's Court.
18 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੪੯-੧੯, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਲਕੀ ਕਾਸੇ ਹਥੀ ਫੁੰਮਣ ਅਗੋ ਪਿਛੀ ਜਾਹੀ
lakee kaasae hathhee funman ago pishhee jaahee ||
With their begging bowls hanging from their waists, and their fly-brushes in their hands, they walk along in single file.
19 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੪੯-੧੯, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਨਾ ਓਇ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਾ ਓਇ ਜੰਗਮ ਨਾ ਓਇ ਕਾਜੀ ਮੁੰਲਾ
naa oue jogee naa oue jangam naa oue kaajee munlaa ||
They are not Yogis, and they are not Jangams, followers of Shiva. They are not Qazis or Mullahs.
19 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev

(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਦਯਿ ਵਿਗੋਏ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਵਿਗੁਤੇ ਫਿਟਾ ਵਤੈ ਗਲਾ
dhay vigoeae firehi viguthae fittaa vathai galaa ||
Ruined by the Merciful Lord, they wander around in disgrace, and their entire troop is contaminated.
1 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਜੀਆ ਮਾਰਿ ਜੀਵਾਲੇ ਸੋਈ ਅਵਰੁ ਕੋਈ ਰਖੈ
jeeaa maar jeevaalae soee avar n koee rakhai ||
The Lord alone kills and restores to life; no one else can protect anyone from Him.
1 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਦਾਨਹੁ ਤੈ ਇਸਨਾਨਹੁ ਵੰਜੇ ਭਸੁ ਪਈ ਸਿਰਿ ਖੁਥੈ
dhaanahu thai eisanaanahu vanjae bhas pee sir khuthhai ||
They go without giving alms or any cleansing baths; their shaven heads become covered with dust.
2 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਪਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਰਤਨ ਉਪੰਨੇ ਮੇਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਮਾਧਾਣੀ
paanee vichahu rathan oupannae maer keeaa maadhhaanee ||
The jewel emerged from the water, when the mountain of gold was used to churn it.
2 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਦੇਵੀ ਥਾਪੇ ਪੁਰਬੀ ਲਗੈ ਬਾਣੀ
athasath theerathh dhaevee thhaapae purabee lagai baanee ||
The gods established the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, where the festivals are celebrated and hymns are chanted.
3 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਨਾਇ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਨਾਤੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਨਾਵਨਿ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਜਾਣੀ
naae nivaajaa naathai poojaa naavan sadhaa sujaanee ||
After bathing, the Muslims recite their prayers, and after bathing, the Hindus perform their worship services. The wise always take cleansing baths.
3 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਮੁਇਆ ਜੀਵਦਿਆ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਜਾਂ ਸਿਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਾਣੀ
mueiaa jeevadhiaa gath hovai jaan sir paaeeai paanee ||
At the time of death, and at the time of birth, they are purified, when water is poured on their heads.
4 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਿਰਖੁਥੇ ਸੈਤਾਨ ਏਨਾ ਗਲ ਭਾਣੀ
naanak sirakhuthhae saithaanee eaenaa gal n bhaanee ||
O Nanak, the shaven-headed ones are devils. They are not pleased to hear these words.
4 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਵੁਠੈ ਹੋਇਐ ਹੋਇ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਜੀਆ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ
vuthai hoeiai hoe bilaaval jeeaa jugath samaanee ||
When it rains, there is happiness. Water is the key to all life.
5 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਵੁਠੈ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾ ਸਭਸੈ ਪੜਦਾ ਹੋਵੈ
vuthai ann kamaadh kapaahaa sabhasai parradhaa hovai ||
When it rains, the corn grows, and the sugar cane, and the cotton, which provides clothing for all.
5 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਵੁਠੈ ਘਾਹੁ ਚਰਹਿ ਨਿਤਿ ਸੁਰਹੀ ਸਾ ਧਨ ਦਹੀ ਵਿਲੋਵੈ
vuthai ghaahu charehi nith surehee saa dhhan dhehee vilovai ||
When it rains, the cows always have grass to graze upon, and housewives can churn the milk into butter.
5 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਤਿਤੁ ਘਿਇ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਸਦ ਪੂਜਾ ਪਇਐ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਸੋਹੈ
thith ghie hom jag sadh poojaa paeiai kaaraj sohai ||
With that ghee, sacred feasts and worship services are performed; all these efforts are blessed.
6 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਗੁਰੂ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨਦੀ ਸਭਿ ਸਿਖੀ ਨਾਤੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਵਡਿਆਈ
guroo samundh nadhee sabh sikhee naathai jith vaddiaaee ||
The Guru is the ocean, and all His Teachings are the river. Bathing within it, glorious greatness is obtained.
6 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev


(੧੫੦-, ਵਾਰ-ਮਾਝ, )
ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਸਿਰਖੁਥੇ ਨਾਵਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਾ ਸਤ ਚਟੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਛਾਈ
naanak jae sirakhuthhae naavan naahee thaa sath chattae sir shhaaee ||1||
O Nanak, if the shaven-headed ones do not bathe, then seven handfuls of ashes are upon their heads. ||1||
7 Maajh Guru Nanak Dev

(Ang 149 and 150)

So in 10th Verse of Arihant Dev Avtar we have terms related to plucking hairs. With that memory loss occurs. No plan could be remembered. Plan misfires if instead of being remembering it, it is rattofied(it is from Indian English meaning, like parrot or parakeet ,without understanding some thing, just by repeating it, orally repeating the information. Example is good lot of people just repeating Gurbani, without even reading it or oral recitation(Bani Kanth) yet do not know that what is meant by it).Term Phurai is made by Phurna or thought in mind. Plan here did not become part of thought process.


ਸਭਹੂੰ ਹਾਥ ਮੋਚਨਾ ਦੀਏ ਸਿਖਾ ਹੀਣ ਦਾਨਵ ਬਹੁ ਕੀਏ
Sabh-hoon haath mochnaa deee|| Sikhaa heen daanav bahu keee||
He caused all to hold the forceps for plucking hair and in this way he made many demons devoid of the lock of hair on the crown of the head.

Page 493, Line 10


ਸਿਖਾ ਹੀਣ ਕੋਈ ਸੰਤ੍ਰ ਫੁਰੈ ਜੋ ਕੋਈ ਜਪੈ ਉਲਟ ਤਿਹ ਪਰੈ ੧੦
Sikhaa heen koimantra na phuraee|| Jo koijapai ulat tih parai||10||
Those without hair or without the lock of hair on the crown of their heads could not remember any mantra and if anyone repeated the mantra, there was negative influence of the mantra on him.10.

Page 493, Line 11
So this memory loss was over come by Manu King and restored the memory by prevention of cutting of hairs.

As per Manu Samriti chapter 8, verse 379 we have cutting hair termed equal to death penalty.

So it was not any text but rules of keeping hairs which restored the memory, which was started by this Manu, the King.

As per Manu Samriti Chapter 12 Verse 122 to 125 we are told about form of God as one in all and one who sees that God in all makes that person being one with God.(it is merely a brief account)

It may sound similar to Gurmat but our ways are different. Das is sure no Missionary could explain that how is it different from Sikh way ?

Answer is that in Sikhs, it is by mercy of Akal and not the self deeds which make a person one with Akal(eternal God of Sikhs), That state is salvation while being alive.

Akal Bless.

The Sikh Affairs
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Vijaydeep singh ji,
Gurafteh.

Forigive me but i stumbled at the very first line.
You state that SHYAAM is name of Akal Purakh and it is used because its NOT poetry of Guur Gobind Singh Ji the HUMAN..but that of AKal Purakh..hence signed SHYAAM.

My doubts. Is the Gurbani in SGGS that Guur Nanak Ji declares is KHASAM KI BANI...so its NOT the poetry of GURU NANAK THE HUMAN..bUT Khasam..AKAL PURAKH...BUT then Guur Nanak ji signs it as NANAK....and NOT by some other Name of Akal Purakh ?? why? was Guru nanak ji NOT HUMAN when wriitgn Gurbani like Guur Gobind Singh Ji was..or whats the DIFFERENCE.
ALL the SIX GURUS..Bhahgats bhatts etc have GURBANI in SGGS..SIGNED either NANAK or their OWN NAMES..Kabir...Ravidass..Sunder..Bhatt kall tallh etc..or Satta balwand JIs...NOT a SINGLE writer in SGGS used any other "Name of Akal Purakh"..even though Guru ji says this is KHASAM KI BANI.
IS ther any bani in SGGS under any other name ?? IF NOT whats the reason...
Thanks for explaianing...:welcome:
 
Feb 8, 2008
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Syaam is term used for Akal in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji. As
Shyam should mean per its usage. It is used in dasam granth as pen name of Guru gobind singh sahib. It is also used as akal purakh.It depends upon where it is used.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Gurfateh
Dear Gyani Sahib Ji,

Well this issue was discussed before also about 4 years before.

Term "nanak" is often not the first person but it is second person of speech. some times as it happens in Holy Kuran (Sura 3 for example)when it appears to be first person, we could put in (say) in bracket.

Till the time of Bani onto 6 Gurus, we had no problem of Nanak Panthi Hindus or Udasis started to worship idol of Baba Nanak or personal worship of Baba Nanak.

Just to make it for the better understanding of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, did God had a plan. To use the self name so that no longer should it be understood in Guru Granth Sahib that Baba Nanak be worshiped personally but the actual speaker be worshiped sorry to say but not to write worship but rather should be deemed God.

So it has only a way by which Akal via Tenth Master made us undserstand Guru Granth Sahib ji as work of God, else like it has happened in case of Bhagwat Gita or Holy Bible's new Testament, people have started to worship Lord Krishana and Lord Jesus personality .

So God is King of King creates own rule, brakes them, then makes new ways to contain the rule breakers.

So in short to remove the doubts raised by Hindus(who in past by worshipping Gorakha Nath, Matendra Nath or Sant Ravidas, Bhagat Namdev Ji, Bhagat Kabeer Ji etc. and not the God, who these human worshipped ie formless) God used the self name explicitly . Like Lazarus died only to prove the Might of Lord Jesus capablity to revive the dead(in Sikhs such thing is not allowed as we see in the case of Baba Atal Rai Ji and Baba Gurditta Ji). Perhaps God created personal worshipping sects worshipping that great man who preached worshipping formless. Then God only vide Tenth Master proved that, do not get misguided. It is me who is reason of all act. See my name.

As it was an evaluation to Singh surname from Dev,Rai, Das surnames at the time of Tenth Master. Akal lead to an evolution from saying something to Ravidas or Nanak, to using own name by Gurubar Akal.

Khalsa, purely one with Akal, does enjoy the position of Guru who by self is Akal.

ਪੰਨਾ 53, ਸਤਰ 5
ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
गुरु परमेसरु एकु है सभ महि रहिआ समाइ ॥
Gur parmesar ek hai sabẖ mėh rahi▫ā samā▫e.
The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all.
ਮਃ 5
ਪੰਨਾ 444, ਸਤਰ 8
ਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਏਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਲਾਏ ॥
गुरू सिखु सिखु गुरू है एको गुर उपदेसु चलाए ॥
Gurū sikẖ sikẖ gurū hai eko gur upḏes cẖalā▫e.
The Guru's Sikh, and the Sikh's Guru, are one and the same; both spread the Guru's Teachings.
ਮਃ 4 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

So there are many things which Gurus previous to Tenth Master did. But there were various unprecedented things in the time of Tenth Guru. To counter them Akal gave unprecedented ways to Tenth Master. Which were a bit different and unprecedented then the previous Gurus yet were not contradictory to their teachings.

sorry for mistakes.And begging for more views.
[/SIZE]
 
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Jul 30, 2004
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Gurfateh
Shyam should mean per its usage. It is used in dasam granth as pen name of Guru gobind singh sahib. It is also used as akal purakh.It depends upon where it is used.
Bhai Inder Singh Ji,

While das talks to yourself, it appears the talks maybe similar to the talks which Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh Ji use have with Akali Kaur Singh Ji.

Coming to the point. There is not a single line in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which is human contribution. Names coming are the names of the recivers/recorders.

As in many sects of Hindus and Sikhism it self as per old Hindu ritual of personal worship(presently it is Gandhi family). recivers were started to be worshipped. So Tenth Master were sent in.

It is stated in Vachitar Natak Sahib, How that(God) said, In the same way will be said to these(Humans). To anyone else enmity will not be held..31..(Chapter 6).

With Verse onto Tenth Master Akal made full stop of personal worship of Humans once for ever. But this may last till Akal wants.
 
Feb 8, 2008
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Tomorrow someone will come and ask us First nine Gurus did not start any Amrit ceremony. Why Guru gobind singh did start this. this is not written In Sri Guru granth sahib ji etc etc.

So lame excuses have no end.
 
Feb 8, 2008
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Vijayddep singh ji

Very good analysis. Any composition of chaubis avtar should be read keeping in mind invocation of chaubis avtar that shows belief system of Poet. That is same as belief of sikhism. In the beginning of Chaubis avtar
name of Poet Shyam comes

ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਭੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ ॥
सुनीअहु संत सभै चित लाई ॥
O saints; listen to it attentively.

ਬਰਨਤ ਸਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਭਾਈ ॥੧॥
बरनत सयाम जथा मत भाई ॥१॥
The poet Shyam is narrating it according or his own under-standing.1.

Then start 38 stanzas that is about God who is Niranakarand does not take birth and hence does not die.So poet shyam is none other than Guru sahib himself.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Gurfateh
Few more things here, there is a need to add.

In Bihar 1/3rd of the Hindus are Nanak Panthis,(including the first Indian President Babu Rajendra Prasad). In the same way in Uttrakhand most Hindus belive that Baba Nanak is in carnation of Vishnu(das saw Guru Maharaj's picture perhaps taking out blood and milk from food in remote border area's shop owned by Hindu).

Upper caste Punjabi Hindus say Dhan Guru Nanak Tu Hi Nirankar, is this not absurd to call a Human as formless. So as Hinduism did in past, by making Lord Budha and Lord Rishabdev,from Budhism and Jainism respectively as in carnation of their demigod Vishnu, in RSS's Panchjanya in past there was a plan for making Prophet Mohhemad SWAS and Lord Jesus also as Incarnation of Vishnu.

So there were and there are plan to put idols of Baba Nanak in Hindu Temples. Had Bani onto Tenth Master did not appear in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, where in Vachitar Natak Sahib, it is declared that name of created was used in past(only), (say) Your name will be used/absorbed/ said.

By the gross misquoting Shri Guru Granth Sahib, we would have become Just like another type of Kabeer Panthis, Kabeer Panthis inspite of being the creed of Akal Worshippin Kabeer Sahib, now worship Kabeer Sahib as in carnation of Akal.Though they do not worship any image ,yet thier Gareeb dasis even misquote Gurbani, in which they say "Haqqa Kabeer Kareem Tu ...." is for Kabeer Sahib and not Akal .

There are class of people who had claimed that some guys belonging to the respective group do personal worship of Bhai Randheer Singh Ji or sants like Baba Nand Singh. But very same people now a days are seen doing personal worship to thier alive preachers like Ragi Darshan Singh Ji or Veer Bhupinder Singh Ji. They are on the way of living bodies Gurudom like that of Nirankaris. Who also only belive in Shri Guru Granth Sahib and not the Bani onto Tenth Master.
 

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

vijaydeep ji

Thanks for your extensive contributions today regarding Sri Dasam Granth. I am in need of some clarification from you, regarding this paragraph in the post above.


There are class of people who had claimed that some guys belonging to the respective group do personal worship of Bhai Randheer Singh Ji or sants like Baba Nand Singh. But very same people now a days are seen doing personal worship to thier alive preachers like Ragi Darshan Singh Ji or Veer Bhupinder Singh Ji. They are on the way of living bodies Gurudom like that of Nirankaris. Who also only belive in Shri Guru Granth Sahib and not the Bani onto Tenth Master.

The last sentence which I have put in bold font seems to say that some who believe only in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and do not believe in the Bani of the 10th master are in danger of elevating living people into the status of True Guru. Would you elaborate more -- what do you mean by "not" ..."believing in the Bani onto the Tenth Master?" Specifically - what is one believing when one believes in the Bani of the Tenth Master? Thank you for your clarification.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Gurfateh

Well when we talk of Bani onto Tenth Master, that will mean that Verse from Akal, orders from Akal delivered via Tenth Master.

They are into two books and a few Rahit Nammah. As we say in Islam, it is not only in Holy Kuran,Directly to Prophet(SWAS) but in Hadees, saying of prophet often recorded by others did God made commandments.

(note in Sikhs, Shri Guru Granth Sahib, Ji are not equivalent to Holy Bible or Holy Kuran. They are equivalent to Lord Jesus/Messiah or Prophet SWAS.)

So Bible for Sikh is Shri Dasham Granth Sahib and parts of Shri Sabloh granth Sahib, Hadees is Parts of Shri Sarbloh Granth Sahib and Rahitnammahs.

So one who believes in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, is one who has faith in messiah or prophet without having faith in Bible or holy Kuran respectively. So without a holy guidlines for faith, new prophet or messiah could emerge.

Radhaswamis, Nirankaris used the reference of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, to make their own Guru justified. Sirsa guys are just an off shot of Radhaswamis.

While Namdharis and Asutosh guys move one step ahead. They misqoute even Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji also, to prove thier living Guru. But when parts of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib like from thier mercy I am beautifully created and Parts of Shri Sarbloh Granth Sahib,like "Khalsa is my complete true Guru". are given to them, then they become answerless.

As if we tell them only by reference of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, that Bani/Devinne verse are Guru and Guru is divine verse. or Guru is Sabad/Holy word. They say that when Such Bani was there then a living bodied Guru was there, so such Guru is needed, to let Sikh/follower tread the path as per Bani.

We reply them, we have such bodied Guru, but that one is not in one Body, that one is in group starting from Five(Panj Piaras). when Guru has given us Guruship, then why should we accept other as our Guru.

If das has not been successful in explaining the point, then i could be asked again to reexpalined.

So in nut shell people who are Guru Granth Sahib purists do not have a faith in Verse unto Tenth Master, While those deem Guru Granth Sahib, not as a book but divine manifestation of God and believe in word of God delivered via Guru Gobind Singh Ji are the other group of Sikhs.

So one beliving in Bani of Tenth Master see God every where(Atamdev) and serve that while serving universe yet say that I do not serve but God only serves(egoless). That person behold Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji(Est Dev) as divine guide and not a mere book, to be explained by logic. Likewise for that person Khalsa Panth is realised group of people ,purley one with God so respect panth as Gurudev.

As we do not have baptism, surname as Singh or Kaur, 5 ks etc in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, they are extra to them yet not in contradiction so other instructions and education bestowed unto us by Akal via Tenth Master is not in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, yet are not in contrast it them or contradictory to them. Former group of people have faith in this.
 

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

vijaydeep ji

This is the part where I need to hear more:

As you said above, "So in nut shell people who are Guru Granth Sahib purists do not have a faith in Verse unto Tenth Master, While those deem Guru Granth Sahib, not as a book but divine manifestation of God and believe in word of God delivered via Guru Gobind Singh Ji are the other group of Sikhs."

Why are there only two groups? Why would there not be at least one more (perhaps 2 or 3 more) group of people who are Guru Granth Sahib purists and who believe that the Granth Sahib is the divine manifestation of God and believe that Guru Gobind Singh ji spoke with the Divine Light within Him -- yet they disagree that the Dasam Granth was completely written by Him?

Long question, forgive me. I have trouble believing that anyone who rejects the authenticity of Dasam Granth is either a follower of Kala Afghana or considers Sri Guru Granth Sahib only a book.
 
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Gurfateh
Dear Sister,

Agreed on your observation. One can not be fundamentalist while being a Sikh with black and white. One can not disagree with the existence of Grey Areas.

So a person in Grey Area could go to either side or stay within various tones of Grey.
 

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

vijaydeep ji

Thank you for your observation. Because the notion that Sri Guru Granth Sahib "purists" are either followers of Kala Afghana, or they disrespect Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji, or they think Guru Granth, or is just a book, or all three ideas, is one of the troubled rhetorics that is dividing the panth today. It is bad rhetoric with a purely political motivation -- control. I therefore appreciate your view on that.
 

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Shyam should mean per its usage. It is used in dasam granth as pen name of Guru gobind singh sahib. It is also used as akal purakh.It depends upon where it is used.
Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

The fact of the matter is that you are just speculating that Shyam is a pen name and also used for Ik Ong Kaar. Now your statement contradicts itself.

None of our Gurus called themselves Ik Ong Kaar. It shows how far fetched and anti Gurmat your speculation is.

Tejwant Singh
 
Feb 8, 2008
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

The fact of the matter is that you are just speculating that Shyam is a pen name and also used for Ik Ong Kaar. Now your statement contradicts itself.

None of our Gurus called themselves Ik Ong Kaar. It shows how far fetched and anti Gurmat your speculation is.

Tejwant Singh
Comprehend what i wrote. The pose the question. Same word means differently when used in different contexts.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

REpetitons...lakh vaar repeated doesn not lead to "comprehension" IF there was faulty logic/argument/nothing to comprehend in the first place.
Our Gurus NEVER said/pretended to be/called themselves EK Oangkaar...Guru Gobind Singh Ji WOULD NOT break with the Nanak Tradition.
However this deosnt eman that OTHERS havent tried being IK Oangkaar..Parmeshwar..many many have tried..and shyam IS one of such ordinary men...trying to be IK Oangkar Incarnate.:):):)
 
Feb 8, 2008
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

REpetitons...lakh vaar repeated doesn not lead to "comprehension" IF there was faulty logic/argument/nothing to comprehend in the first place.
Our Gurus NEVER said/pretended to be/called themselves EK Oangkaar...Guru Gobind Singh Ji WOULD NOT break with the Nanak Tradition.
However this deosnt eman that OTHERS havent tried being IK Oangkaar..Parmeshwar..many many have tried..and shyam IS one of such ordinary men...trying to be IK Oangkar Incarnate.:):):)
You have also not understood what i wrote. try to read again.

Shyam should mean per its usage. It is used in dasam granth as pen name of Guru gobind singh sahib. It is also used as akal purakh.It depends upon where it is used.


In simple language it means the word shyam should be interpreted to mean with respect to context used. So some places it will mean akal purakh and some places pen name.
 
Feb 8, 2008
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

REpetitons...lakh vaar repeated doesn not lead to "comprehension" IF there was faulty logic/argument/nothing to comprehend in the first place.
Our Gurus NEVER said/pretended to be/called themselves EK Oangkaar...Guru Gobind Singh Ji WOULD NOT break with the Nanak Tradition.
However this deosnt eman that OTHERS havent tried being IK Oangkaar..Parmeshwar..many many have tried..and shyam IS one of such ordinary men...trying to be IK Oangkar Incarnate.:):):)
You also have not understood what i wrote.Read below

Shyam should mean per its usage. It is used in dasam granth as pen name of Guru gobind singh sahib. It is also used as akal purakh.It depends upon where it is used.

The above means that word should mean per context in which it is used.
 

deepsingh87

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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

ਬੁਰਨਤ ਸਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਭਾਈ


syamm. what does this word mean.
is it a name?
or is it a attribute of waheguru ? ??
 
Feb 8, 2008
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Re: Shri Dasham Granth Sahib does not support Manusamriti, Answers to S.Harmanjeet Si

ਬੁਰਨਤ ਸਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਭਾਈ


syamm. what does this word mean.
is it a name?
or is it a attribute of waheguru ? ??

Here It is pen name of Guru sahib.
 
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