Nihang Niddar Singh - What Is The Controversy?

Randip Singh · Mar 8, 2009

aad0002 said:
A balanced perspective at this news source In The Master's Presence | SikhNet

A nice link.

Randip Singh · Mar 8, 2009

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
Apology ?? what apology ??
Apology for NOT discussing the "Academic Merits" of the book.... but simply beating about the bush..dhoorr wich tattoo....muddying the waters...or paanee wich madhannii

THATS what the anti Niddar group shoudl apologise for...I thought Railroading/shotgunning or kangroo courts went out with the American west/Cowboy justice...seems i am mistaken..it is well and alive in so called nihungs ( and they too ride horses just like the cowboys of the wild west....any coincidence ??)

Gyani ji,

What makes me laugh is that groups like AKJ (who are vehement critics of Niddar Singh) are themselves only 60 years old, and they are criticising groups that have been in existence for over 300 years?

zor · Sep 24, 2012

Unfortunately most human beings concentrate their attention on the outside and keep avoiding inner sight.. Much more easy is to have a sect of those that are in agreement with your ideas and do not post threats to them,then to examine without mercy our own selfs...we should practice without effort the art of daily demolition of ignorance without accumulating any form of pride for doing so...

taran0 · Oct 12, 2012

Nidar claims authenticity mainyl through his connection with nihangs and ancent origins yet they reject him as a fake and excommunicate him.

If you want to see his twisting of gurbani then go to this article

http://www.shastervidiya.org/the-lies-and-mistruths/

and if you want to see how he falsley claimed that guru gobind singh ji created teh khalsa in the roop of shiva with the blessing of Kalika devi then go here

http://www.shastervidiya.org/nidar-says-khalsa-created-with-blessings-of-kalika-devi/

he is clearly pushign an RSS agenda

and the nihang singhs have rejected him and his views see his excommuncation letter here.

The nihangs say he is a pekhi nihang "fake nihang" and causing confusion within the sikh sangat.

The fol*low*ing is a trans*la*tion of the letter

To the Esteemed Jathedar of the Akaal Takht,
We feel com*pelled to bring to your atten*tion that Nid*dar Singh aka Surjit Singh bains of Wol*ver*hamp*ton UK is involved in anti Sikh con*sipir*acies by doing anti-Sikh parchaar on his web*sites and dilut*ing the sikh philo*sophy by teach*ing that Sikhs are a part of Hinduism. With his hein*ous teachings(koorr parchar) he is mis*lead*ing the Sikh sangat.
He keeps chan*ging the name of his akhara on his web*site to include names such as “Hindu Santan Shiv Akhara” and is falsely using the name of Jathedar Akali Baba Dar*bara Singh to legit*im*ise himself.
Nid*dar Singh is stat*ing that the Khalsa was born from Shiv Ji and not guru Gobind Singh ji. He also pro*claims falsely that the “Farla” of Nihang Singhs is sprouted from the ganges river and that blue bana is from the col*our of Shiva. He is also say*ing that the chakar that Nihang Singhs wear on their dumalla is a sign of Shivji.
He is say*ing that the Sikh dharam emerged from hinduism and that Sikhi is just another sam*parda of the Hindu dharam and is also teach*ing that Sikh Shastar Vidiya and Gatka is a branch of the Hindu Dharam.
Nid*dar Singhs activ*it*ies in the uk are upset*ting and divid*ing Sikhs there. Guru Gobind Singh ji made the Khalsa unique. This fake Nihang is spread*ing doubts, con*fu*sion and slander within the sikh sangat.
On the 300th cel*eb*ra*tion of Guru Granth Ji’s Gur*gaddi the sangat of Hazur Sahib kicked him out due to his nefar*i*ous activ*it*ies and anti Sikh parchaar.
By put*ting the con*cerns of the panth first we recomend that this indi*vidual is brought before the Akal Takht to answer for his crimes and receive pun*ish*ment accord*ingly and the sikh sangat be freed of this confusion.

signed by
Baba Joginder Singh — Jathedar of Budha Dal
Baba Avatar Singh — Jathedar of Bidhi Chand Dal
Baba Nihal Singh — Jathedar of Haria Vela Dal
Baba Gaj*jan Singh — Jathedar Tarana Dal (Baba Bakala)
Baba Harnam Singh — Jathedar Dam*d*ami Tak*sal & Sant Samaaj

AKAAAALLLLLL

Kanwaljit.Singh · Oct 12, 2012

Hmm, his students will not stop following his misgivings!

TigerStyleZ · Oct 12, 2012

But what about the real Sikh martial art =(? I still think it is Shastar Vidya, and not Gatka, which seems to be a decendant of the whole thing? I don´t agree with hsi views about Shiva and stuff, but I am more interested in the real Sikh Martial art, that the british and all others were afraid of. Where you can learn this ancient Martial art? I don´t know.. In punjab i just always see people doing Gatka and stuff. I mean the one you do with Naam raas and Bir raas. Are the still real masters out there? I think this martial art is dying among us Sikhs... And somehow Niddar Singh is doinga good job, while teaching it. Maybe his views on Sikhi are different, but this doesnt changes the art?

taran0 · Oct 12, 2012

a lot of what nidar teaches is made up from other martial arts mixed with chatka gatka of nihangs - he has learnt other styles and mixed them in.

Nidar Singh makes many fake claims to being the final expo*nent of Shastar*vidy*a but in one of his inter*views in Mar*tial Arts Magazine he states:

KG: Are there many mas*ters of this art?
NS: As guns became more pop*u*lar the emphasis on this art decreased in the itini*er*ant Akali Nihang armies. Today there are not many mas*ters of this art alive. The ones I know, if still alive, are Nihang Baba Ram Singh in UP, India and Bhai Ranjit Singh of Patiala who has par*tial know*ledge of this art. There are no doubt oth*ers in Budha Dal (old*est Sikh mar*tial order estab*lished in 1606) but they being itin*er*ant men*dic*ants of secret*ive nature, are not easy to track down.
Frank Levin, Mar*tials Arts Magazine, USA.

Baba Giana Singh — Shastar*vidiya — Diwali 2005

Baba Ji is about 98 years old, he reads a Panj Granthi and Das Granthi every*day at amritvela fol*lowed by prac*tice of Shastar*vidiya, he was a stu*dent of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Bhinder*awale. He has trained 17 Singhs into skilled teach*ers of Shastar*vidiya. May Maha*raj allow Baba Ji to keep inspir*ing us, and the best of health. This photo was taken at Akali Phoola Singh Burj, Diwali, 2005. Baba Ji is an expo*nant of Jhatka Gatka, or Jang vidiya. (ripped from http://akalinihang.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/baba-giana-singh-shastarvidiya.html)
<hr> In a meet*ing with Baba Joginder Singh, Jathedar of Budha Dal, who is cur*rently on a visit to the UK. He also con*firmed that there are many gupt teach*ers of the old Mar*tial Arts within the Budha Dal. But the main fight these days is within our*self against Kalyug that we need to place our efforts on.

The thing is can you learn from somone who blatantly tells lies and twists History Gurbani to suit his own hindutva agenda. Can you really trust such a person? your choice....

TigerStyleZ · Oct 13, 2012

Wow! Thanks taran, can you please post more of these links and stuff!! Would be very grateful!!! Didn´t know about that!

As I read further, I come to one point where someone said that Giana Singh just teaches the Basics of this Vidiya, are there any teachers out there besides "Nihang Singh Niddar", who teach Shastar Vidiya? I mean the full one..? Not just Basics and Ghatka? I mean the real deal.. It is just very interesting!

zor · Oct 15, 2012

Sat sri akal
thankyou for your most kind explanation..
If you permit me so,i wish to make a comment on this topic.

The problem if we can say so it is not a matter regarding the mentioned mr 'niddar singh in controversy' but our eyes and specialy our memory are quite at stake..
So i would like to put out a few historical facts that may help us all in understanding better the presented controversy...

We must not forget a few facts like...our great guru nanak was originated in a hindu brahmin family..and as bhai kabir ji,they where devoted to truth,breaking common folk believes and other forms of human mental-spiritual limitations..so we all know that they studied very well the original hindu texts from seers like vasishta,ashtavakra etc and understood that their perception was too advanced for most of the people as today...so it was clear that historical mistakes like calling 'hindu' the 'bharats' was one of those errors that helped leading in to more ignorance unless they are unveil which is our duty..to see and to understand..not just believe and follow automaticaly what was given to us all. In the same way,thousands do not know that afghanistan once was india...many read history without reflecting..and this can cause more confusion...so not to make this topic too long,a few reflections i share with all my brothers...martial arts in india were all but one..a single system composed of 64 skills that embraced abilities that today seem almost impossible to full fill...exple. Riding chariots.controlling animals.ground wrestling,standing wrestling,knowledge of medicine,missile weapons,concealed weapons use etc etc among these the marvelous use of the chakram..from which many say our kada is derived...but the secret of all was the pondering mind..to perceive by intuition and instinct...so its understandable that many people would love to recover such knowledges,but most of the time the fall in to 'egocentric' activity and dance with their thoughts..resulting in a drunk state of mind...

Alan491 · Oct 16, 2012

taran0 · Nov 6, 2012

Nidar likes to think that he has the FULL vidiya, but really he just learnt the basic as well and propped up the rest with reading literature and amalgamating other arts.

This is evident from those who have seen the progression over the last 15 years, what is now even in name is different to what it is was then.

To say it is ancient and full is a complete long shot, I mean they can't even make wootz steel like the old days.

As time goes on our weapons have advanced and moved onto archery, cannons, guns and explosives so the old arts have naturally dies away.

Regardless of this there is one aspect of Sikh Martial tradition that was unique and it was the fighting spirit of the Khalsa, most of Guru Gobind Singh ji's followers were simple farmers, tanners, carpenters, traders etc.

the 'shastarvidiya' as Nidar states was there before the Sikhs as well, but they were getting panned by the invading forces from Persia, Europe and Uzbekistan (where the Mughals originate from) they had powerful composite bows on horseback (which had been honed and perfected over generations since Genghis khans time) which could decimate Indian shastarvidiya armies before they even got half way through the battlefield, they wore armour which Indians were unaccustomed to. So all this talk of Marams(pressure points) that Nidar teaches his students wouldn’t have been used in battles. The Mughals also introduced the use of gunpowder that would not only damage but disorientate the enemy horses and elephants. Thus Shastarvidiya was defeated and defunct by the superior invading forces

"They brought with them techniques and instruments of warfare that were hitherto unheard of in the sub-continent. The soldiers were completely protected from any possibility of physical attack by means of a complete shield of armour from head to foot, their daggers and swords were made of superior alloys and they brought with them the use of gunfire in warfare. That is why, despite the courage and valour of the Indian armies a small group of warriors was able to overtake them and lay the foundation for one of the grandest Empires in Indian history, the Mughal Empire."

From the Art Of Mughal Warfare

so what was different between Guru Gobind Singh ji's soldiers, well
what he instilled in them was a fearless attitude and led by example by sacrificing the world but not his beliefs and truth and justice, this gave wake to a new kind of warrior, a Khalsa who fought with honour and had already given their head at baptism. It was the pure audacity and the way in which the Sikhs so readily gave their lives with great happiness that shook the foundations of the Mughal Empire.

The idea that it was a certain STYLE of fighting that enabled the Sikhs to not only win battles but win the hearts of the people to create the Khalsa raj, is in my eyes a bit of a Jackie Chan Kung Fu tale, where the snake style beats the eagle style.

Without spirit and zeal and spiritual strength any army or style of fighting is useless. Similarly for Khalsa without the guru gurbani and naam simran there is no point.

The Sikhs fought in the Second World War not with shastarvidiya but with guns and bayonets, using European modern style of fighting and they were hailed as having great courage and bravery - just read the history of the battle of Saraghari.

So don't be duped by dazzling displays or martial arts showmanship, or claims of ancient complete hidden techniques that have survived thousands of years, which can in no way be corroborated or proven.

When Nidar first came to the UK he used to claim that he never knew the name of his master who taught him, he was anonymous and lived hidden.[/FONT]
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Vanguard · Nov 8, 2012

Taran I put this question to you....you claim Nidar Singh accepts balbir singh as the jathedar(according to your article) correct?

what about your soo called jathedar who turned his back on baba surjeet singh and accepted balbir as the head of dal panth?

http://www.budhadal.com/pictures2.htm

http://www.budhadal.com/images/press/DSC_0026.JPG

joginder isn't the head of budha dal as you claim, hes just a feem addict who is a coward and has let the TRUE head of budha dal Baba Surjeet singh rot in jail

How about you've sided with navjeet(apparently head of budha dal UK)who nearly had a rape case against him last year...any memory of that or will you just brush that under the carpet like a complete fudu that you are.

Secret undercover footage of Baba Surjeet Singh in Patiala Jail on Vimeo

taran0 · Nov 8, 2012

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The reason for the sulla(peace) with balbiro was because many singhs were getting hurt(shot, etc), so he decided to calm things down a bit, I can understand his reasoning, but i dont see Nidar making any objections either when he tied the dastaar on

as for him being a feem addict, i will relay on the message to India, as all I saw when I went to see him was him doing paath and encouraging the youngsters to do Naam Bani.

I am not a Nihang Singh - and it seems things are pretty messed up with the whole jail/balbiro sgpc thing. I just hope that Baba Surjit Singh gets out of jail soon and the Nihangs can sort their mess out.

as for this navjeet singh, i don't know who he is, when i went to see Baba Joginder Singh there were many singhs there. where have I sided with him?
where on my website do I support him? proof of this ?

Vanguard said:
How about you've sided with navjeet(apparently head of budha dal UK)who nearly had a rape case against him last year...any memory of that or will you just brush that under the carpet like a complete fudu that you are.

..and also calling me names is no way to conduct an conversation. I know that you are getting upset and heated because a person that you respect and love is getting proven wrong, but this is no way to talk to people. NIdar started this by posting the information in the image below, and by supporting enemies of the sikhs liek the Nakli NIrankaris.

on nidars website http://www.shastarvidiya.org/introduction.jsp
he clearly says that if anyone can refute then they should do so.

To such individuals we ask them to refute, if they can, what has been revealed here with clear objective scriptural, historical, rational and logical evidence. If the information presented here is proven to be in any way incorrect/mistaken/inaccurate then it will be revaluated accordingly.

so why are you getting vexed when i am trying to do exactly what nidar has asked of us to do.

my website has a response message board by which people can respond and send messages and i have accepted and published many of nidars students comments, the ones that have not been abusive or threatening.

None of nidars websites have an open forum for discussion so even when it is refuted the website has not been changed over the last 10 years.

i have been accused of being hateful, slanderous by trying to argue the points on his website, which he has clearly given everyone the freedom to do.......

and this idea of calling me hateful, and me being a slanderer first please read your own website and tell me is the following quotes taken from sarbloh.info not hateful and slanderous..

Chaan Pardesi · Nov 10, 2012

who are all these "babas" who accept and reject as if they owned Sikhi.These are minions trying to hijack sikhi and project their own self egos.The problem is most Sikhs are not as educated as they think they are.Otherwise they would not fall into the traps of these faith hijackers with egos...I would line them all up one by one and shoot them.There would be less problems and disagreements in sikhi and it can flourish as a proper faith.With such goons around, duping and ruining it with their personal likes and dislikes Sikhi is being ruined.It appears these people are building their own sikhi on false lies, pretensions and claims!Shoot them ...out of the way, Sikhi would do well simply with Guru Granth Sahib and no other goon policing the rest of the panth with their weirdo ideas.

TigerStyleZ · Dec 6, 2012

http://www.shastervidiya.org/university-sikh-societies-joint-statement-about-nidar-in-2004/

http://niddar.blogspot.de/2007/02/waheguroo-ji-ka-khalsa-waheguroo-ji-ki.html

Very INTERSTING Links!

spnadmin · Dec 6, 2012

Chaan Pardesi said:
who are all these "babas" who accept and reject as if they owned Sikhi.These are minions trying to hijack sikhi and project their own self egos.The problem is most Sikhs are not as educated as they think they are.Otherwise they would not fall into the traps of these faith hijackers with egos...I would line them all up one by one and shoot them.There would be less problems and disagreements in sikhi and it can flourish as a proper faith.With such goons around, duping and ruining it with their personal likes and dislikes Sikhi is being ruined.It appears these people are building their own sikhi on false lies, pretensions and claims!Shoot them ...out of the way, Sikhi would do well simply with Guru Granth Sahib and no other goon policing the rest of the panth with their weirdo ideas.

I would press the Like button for this, except the idea of "shooting" kept me from doing it. I agree that there are babas hijacking the faith. Shooting them will just make people like me in the the category as goondas who break up gurdwara services, punch Kaurs, grab the shastars, pull turbans off Singhs, just because they do not like the ragi or the katha.

spnadmin · Dec 6, 2012

Here is one of the articles attached to the first link given by TigerStyleZ. It is important to have it for the record on this thread to understand the depth of controversy.

University Sikh Societies joint statement about Nidar in 2004
Posted on November 20, 2012

Below you will see that Nidar is no stranger to controversy, in 2004 he cleverly mis-used Sikhs society names to hold seminars in London universities as part of a lecture series. Please read the joint statement from the Sikh Societies below once they realised the nature of Nidars seminars.

Sikh Societies Joint Statement on ‘Traditional to modern British Raj Sikhism’ Lecture Series and ‘Snatan Sikhs’

28 November 2004

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

In recent weeks the Institute of Sikh Martial Heritage have organised a four-lecture series entitled ‘Traditional to modern British Raj Sikhism’ to take place at a number of London universities. The sole speaker for the lecture series is Mr Niddar Singh.

Promotional material for this event which has been circulated electronically and via flyers has stated that the lecture series is supported by a number of London-based Sikh Societies.

Members of our London-based Sikh Society committees were approached by associates of Mr Niddar Singh to book venues on their behalf, but without specifying the theme or nature of the lectures. It was only after the above mentioned promotional literature was circulated that we became aware of the precise nature of these events.

We would like to make clear to all concerned that contrary to the false advertisement and rumours that are being circulated; we did not and will not support this lecture series, the Institute of Sikh Martial Heritage or Mr Niddar Singh.

We have informed the relevant Student Unions that the below listed London-based Sikh Societies do not wish to be associated with this lecture series or the organisers, and that all venues booked under their Society in relation to this lecture series be cancelled immediately.

In addition to the London-based Sikh Societies, we would like to categorically state that the Societies listed below do not wish to associate themselves with the Institute of Sikh Martial Heritage, Mr Niddar Singh or any other group promoting him.

With respect to misrepresenting the Sikh Societies, we demand that the Institute of Sikh Martial Heritage issue a written apology to all Sikh Societies concerned.

On Behalf of the following Sikh Societies,

Kings College London Sikh Society
University College London Sikh Society
London School of Economics Sikh Society
Imperial College London Sikh Society
Cambridge University Sikh Society
Oxford University Sikh Society
Hertfordshire University Sikh Society
Brunel University Sikh Society
City University Sikh Society
Luton University Sikh Society
London Metropolitan University Sikh Society
Kingston University Sikh Society
Richmond College Sikh Society

spnadmin · Dec 6, 2012

TigerStyleZ said:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-...here are no problems with eating meat per se.

TigerStyleZ · Dec 6, 2012

spnadmin said:
Just wondering, because I cannot locate it in the articles, where Niddar says that meat can be eaten from anywhere. The only thing the Maryada says is that meat killed in the halal way may not be eaten. There are no problems with eating meat per se.

Admin ji, I jost quoted what was said in the second article ( the one with the (bad) photos)

spnadmin · Dec 6, 2012

TigerStyle Z

Oh yes, I realize that. In fact the two links were very interesting. Thanks for posting it because it really contributes to the thread. Sorry if i sounded critical. Did not mean it that way.

Nihang Niddar Singh - What Is The Controversy?

Randip Singh

Randip Singh

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Kanwaljit.Singh

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zor

Alan491

taran0

Vanguard

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Chaan Pardesi

TigerStyleZ

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