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sunmukh

(Previously Himmat Singh)
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Feb 19, 2010
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Yes you are right to the point were you say " the sikh satguru does not act as a middleman"
The gurbani say " jaysa satguru soni tha taso he ma deet vista mala purbo har dargaa KA bits"

As you know how to translate there IS a
Middle Satguru you must cross before meeting god

Jis no tum mala sadsangth KA pasaa

Even this line says you must meet with the saad ( satguru)
With out satguru you cannot meet god and satguru is NOT guru granth Ji as most believe. It is our life and our gian
If we believe it takes the place of satguru then who was kabirs satguru and the other bagths before guru Granth ji please don't mistake me I believe in the guru Granth ji but it is not satguru

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

Have to go part-way with Naam ji here. Satguru is not SGGS ji, but I don't believe Satguru is life or gian either.
IMHO Satguru is innate Guru that is only revealed or met, upon destruction of all self-identity. One's identity merges into the identity of the perfect Satguru, who has not been defiled with any human conditioning or attachments. it leaves one pure.
Subject to Satguru's graace ( SatGur Prasad) one will then be introduced to the Absolute Truth - God consciousness will arise in an overwhelming fashion.
SatGuru is almost like an ambassador.

Maybe this discussion should be put in a new topic, rather than on this Japji topic.

Sat Sri Akal
 

Naam

SPNer
Oct 15, 2010
30
25
Sorry let me refrase this I ment guru Granth ji is our life that is our guidance to god without it we would be lost
But it is not to be called satguru because if you calls it satguru then the gurbani will not translate correctly when you read the word satguru
Your mind and thoughts should not picture the granth
 

Dalvinder Singh Grewal

Writer
Historian
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Jan 3, 2010
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Dear Sir,

McLoad has adopted Prof sahib Singh's version, while others have followed the literal version. It is for sure that the line 'soche: sochu n hovai: je soche: lakhu va:r' has followed a;di sachu juga;di sachu, hai bhi: sachu hosi bhi sachu. These are the attributes of God. To link further it is logical that the attributes of God are explained further. When we consider that 'One cannot think about Him (He is beyond thinking), one may think million times,'; it provides continuity to God's attributes i.e., beyond thinking. Let us see the other meaning transcribing it as 'shoche' cleaniliness here cleaniliness is attached to human body; hence does not provide the continuing link.

Let us go to the next line 'chupe: chup na hovai: je lai raha liv ta;r' It means one cannot be ever quite, even if I concentrate on Him continuously (while concentrating in meditation on God). It continues to describe further that one cannot think about Him continuously; one cannot concentrate on Him continuously, hence it is a continuity about God, but in the next line the individual's physical inabilities vis a vis God's attributes are highlighted. Next line 'bhukhe: bhukh n utre: je bana; puri:a: bha:r'. The major problem with the human being is that he has been sentenced with hunger, which never ends, even though he may collect a large scale of puri:s, since food is digested every time and one is again hunger after 5-6 hours in continuity. The person has to ask for food hence he calls for it (calls out for food as he cannot keep hungry.) He cannot continue his meditation continuously because of this hunger. Hence the line soche: soch....' is linking to thinking of God and not to the cleanliness of body as depicted by Mclaoad.

Dr Dalvinder Singh Grewal
 

meera

SPNer
Feb 23, 2008
1
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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji Ki Fateh..

In my opinion, the word of the scripture appeals to the devotee/ teachers differently and every interpretation is valuable. The operative word is 'soch' which is thought.

To my mind it seems the Guru is saying, 'the Lord is beyond thought.' That means we cannot know Him using our mind and intellect. Because we are limited humans and we can know only all that is knowable using the 5 sense organs. And all such knowing that arises from the 5 sense perception (and hence including the mind and intellect which can only process what the 5 senses see/hear/taste/touch/smell) limits the Lord to something that is perceivable so simply.

Knowing the Lord is an experiential state, hence no matter how many lakh times you think about Him, you will try and interpret Him in worldly ways only, through a see-able, hear-able, taste-able, touch-able entity. Whereas the japji sahib says: Merely thinking again and again about the Lord will not reveal Him to your inner self.

McLeodji probably hints at this by saying: All ritual, purification havans etc... can only inch by inch cleanse your mind which is covered with filth...but you need to go to a state of no thought; that would be a state where you are one with the Lord, just as my hand is not a thought but me; when I think, it includes my face, legs, hands, toes, stomach...everyhting. In a similar way I have to come to be One with the Lord, adn therefore thoughts won't get me there.

Forgive me if I am hasty and speak foolishly. I am a student and would like to learn from everyone...

pranaam..
meera
 

khalsa1469

SPNer
Dec 14, 2009
11
27
Dear all,

Every work by an interpreter (and we are all interpreters) is a snapshot of his/her understanding at a particular time. Each of the above mentioned scholars may well have grown to change their mind about their earlier attempts. So, let us do our best to understand what is in front of us. Repeated, implicitly pejorative, references to McLeod are not helpful to this discussion - they betray a bias.

I thank those who posted their interpretation of Prof. Sahib Singh's interpretation. Of those that I have studied, his is the most sensible.

The lines prior to the question (Kiv Sachiara hoiai, kiv kurhai tutai pal) and answer (Hukam Razai chalana, Nanak likhia nal), are references to futile activities that do not help us be a Sachiar. That much should be beyond debate. Why? That is because each of the lines refer to activities that prove a failure (na hovai, na utari), which is followed by the question that indicates the earlier lines refer to activities that are not useful in being a Sachiar.

What activities, then, are futile? At first blush, and because most of us do not speak the same language as it was spoken 500 years ago, it appears that Sochai refers to thinking. But that is incorrect. It refers to Such or Sucham.

We know this by referring to the third line of this Paurhi - Sahas sianapan lakh hovain, tan ik na chalai nal.

Bhai Kahn Singh 'Nabha' in his "Mahan Kosh" translates Sianap as understanding, cunning, etc. The reference is to the use of knowledge, which has both positive and negative uses. Clearly, in this line the Guru is referring to the negative aspect of Sianap that proves futile in being a Sachiar. So, we can be confident that the meaning of Sianap has to do with a sense of cunning or misuse/ misapplication of knowledge.

What about thought processes or thinking? Thinking and the process of thought is what leads to Sianap, which may be positive or negative. So, thinking is a prerequisite for Sianap and is covered in this line. Yet, it is not thinking that is being decried in this line. What is being decried is the misuse of what we learn or the lack of implementation of what we claim to have learnt. The Guru says that no matter how cunning or quick we may be, we may yet miss the essential wisdom and the crux of all our learning.

So, back to the first line of the Paurhi - the Sochai here is not the contemporary Sochna, thinking, but an act that is meant to make us Sachiar. Like the other two references - contrived silence (as a means to inner peace), and indulgence (as a way to overcome the urge to indulge), this refers to an act that was common to society and was integrally related to the sphere of religiosity or spirituality (pardon my use of these labels). All we need to do is to look around South Asia and it is clear that the most common act to purify oneself - Such or Sucham - is by way of ritual bathing at Tirath asthan.

BTW, this includes the act of purifying ourselves by "washing" our feet (in the dirty water) before entering Darbar Sahib - which is enforced by the guards (what are they guarding?). This is also reflected in our compulsive hand washing prior to holding a Pothi. We never worry about our mind (and the dirt that is within), but are overly concerned about the cleanliness of our extremities.

Of course, hygiene is important. But, occasional hand washing or washing of our feet (prior to holding a Pothi or entering a Dharamsal) will not clean our mind. That would require a perpetual discipline and focus. It has to do with Hukam and Raza.

The Guru, to my understanding, says that all other acts are futile attempts to be a Sachiar.

So, the Sochai in the first Paurhi refers to ritual cleanliness as a futile means to be a Sachiar.

Is Sucham practiced by us in other ways?

Let's evaluate much that we take for granted, and many holier-than-thou folks take as the proof of their superiority over others.

Akal Sahai!

Gaurav Singh
 

parryrai

SPNer
Aug 20, 2008
1
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Guru pyareo , Today is my very first day of getting into this discussion. I really enjoyed everyone's views. I agree to everybody. To me Satguru Nanak Dev ji's bani is so vast and great that it is impossible to come to any one solid meaning. To me it is a view from different angles. It depends on from which angle one is looking at it. The meaning changes every time you grow( physically or spiritualy). So I would say no body is wrong and don't stick to one translation. Explore yourself and try to get your own answer to bani. I know I may be wrong but it is may opinion . So aap sabh anjaan samajh ke maaf kar dena jee. Veechaar baut jarooree hai . Guru aap sabh te mehar bhareyaa hath rakhe. ikonkaar
 

Naam

SPNer
Oct 15, 2010
30
25
I agree with your thoughts
Just one thing to consider in your explanation you mention
Paurhi .. Japi does not have paurhi. They are" annks" identified by numbers
Asa di var has paurhi because guru sahib has written paurhi were needed
Just like "we" say japi shabi It is jap and only jap
We take for granted what gurus wrote
 

kawalsin

SPNer
Jan 6, 2009
14
12
Dear Naam Ji

Gur fateh. Your query about who is Satguru is answered in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji by Fourth Guru Nanak, Shri Guru RamDaas ji on Ang 169:

Jis miliay man hoye anand so satgur kahiay ||

Man ki dubidha binas jaye har param pad lahiay ||


Meeting whom (our) mind is filled with bliss, He is called a Satguru ||
There is no more doubt in the mind and the highest seat (position of being one with God) is achieved.

Third Guru Nanak, Guru AmarDaas ji has aid in Anand Sahib (on Ang 922 of Shri Guru Garnth sahib Ji):

Anand anand sabh ko kahai, anand guru te jania

Everyone (just) talks of bliss, (but) bliss is known (only) through Guru.

There are inumerable so called Sants and Babas claiming to be in bliss and the unsuspecting followers call them Satguru. One should beware of them and understand that the only Guru/Satguru for Sikhs is Shri Guru Granth Sahib.

Gur fateh

Kawaljit Singh
 

Harinaam

SPNer
May 8, 2009
4
5
Mcleod is right for the reason that he got it from people of the time more nearer to the GURUs time who from generation to generation passed on the meaning as was understood and known and at that time India was one and the Language and vernacular meanings were not distorted or confused.
After partition of India lot of real history and language has been lost or confused. My great grand parents and older saints I came in contact did explain like mcleod.

Mcleod never visited India during translation but after that and his source were then scholars and people of the time. Moreover Gur Ka Shabd Vichar is also said in Gurbani Vichar and Thinking is similar why then GURU will undermine thinking when so many places good thinking is required. A good research of word Thinking as used in Gurbani at other places will further clarify.

HP Luthera
 

japjisahib04

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Jan 22, 2005
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Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

Sahni ji, this is how I understand Pauri 3:

"There are countless different understandings of the Creator, but none knows the limits or nature of the Creator.More and more understandings are provided by more and more preachers.Those who follow have always accepted stories. The followers of such sermons eventually tire of them but The Creator keeps on leading people to search and sets the route.

One is inwardly content when one realizes the futility of searches for purpose of life and accepts the Creator alone can lead one to solutions. The Creator will do this of His own accord."

I don't think "gifts" relates to anything material; from preceding lines I guess it is to do with the different ways in which people conduct their searches for God/the Truth. They tire of them, and then start afresh, as God has implanted this idea in them (the inner Guru/Sat Guru) to find Him.

Sat Sri Akal
Now coming back to confusing interpretation of, 'ਦੇਦਾਦੇਲੈਦੇਥਕਿਪਾਹਿ ਜੁਗਾਜੁਗੰਤਰਿਖਾਹੀਖਾਹਿ ' of japjisahib page 2, it is not possible that one stance, ' ਭੁਖਿਆਭੁਖਉਤਰੀਜੇਬੰਨਾਪੁਰੀਆਭਾਰ॥, refers to the ability of individual to consume the resource and the other calls of weary of receiving.

You are right it is not related with anything material but then again if we interpret meaning of 'thak' negatively the continutity and the context of the whole pauri is killed which is referring to different modes prevalent to conquer the mind. In fact word 'thak' is derived from Bengali language which means settles down. The moment we take positive meaning of 'thak' the puzzle is solved, that gems of divine wisdom are continually being showerd and those who partake and contemplate on divine wisdom, their mind gets settled once for all. Similary gurbani tells us 'jeh ko khavai jeh ko bhunjai tis ka hoey udharo.' so it is not relating with consuming the material items but contemplating on the guru ka sabd and juga jugantar is not age after age but once for all and for ever.

Gurbani once again clears it 'saach naam adhar mera jin bhukha sabh gavaeiya those who take supports of divine wisdom. their further wandering is stopped.

Best regards
sahni mohinder



 

sunmukh

(Previously Himmat Singh)
SPNer
Feb 19, 2010
108
136
UK
Guru pyareo , Today is my very first day of getting into this discussion. I really enjoyed everyone's views. I agree to everybody. To me Satguru Nanak Dev ji's bani is so vast and great that it is impossible to come to any one solid meaning. To me it is a view from different angles. It depends on from which angle one is looking at it. The meaning changes every time you grow( physically or spiritualy). So I would say no body is wrong and don't stick to one translation. Explore yourself and try to get your own answer to bani. I know I may be wrong but it is may opinion . So aap sabh anjaan samajh ke maaf kar dena jee. Veechaar baut jarooree hai . Guru aap sabh te mehar bhareyaa hath rakhe. ikonkaar

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

Parry Rai ji, I think you hit the nail on the head
Satguru will lead anybody who searches for Him on a path that is suited for that person.
All the person needs to do is open their heart to Satguru and search within the temple of the mind.

This thread has shown there are countless variations of understandings. There is no set standard, and to blindly accept someone elses understanding that your own mind struggles with is not the way to foster love and devotion for Satguru. Your mind will not surrender to Satguru in that way. You have to step down and down and down until you reach the level that you really and fully understand. It may even be simplest form of mantar, like Waheguru-Sat Naam. Do not blindly accept, else the love will not develop. All that will happen if one does not understand is that there will be yet more wandering of the mind as it looks in every nook and cranny, trying to make sense of somebody elses understanding. All that Guru ji requests in return for His boundless gifts is devotion to Him. He does not need elaborate, complex, thesis written in praise to Him like Vedas, no recitals, no deep studies, no deep meditation, no bathing, no nonsense really. He requests very simple constant consciousness of Him built on love for Him instead of attempts of self-gratification of worldly senses and wild goose-chases. In return He will provide complete peace of mind.

ਕਥਨਾ ਕਥੀ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਤੋਿਟ ॥​
kathnaa kathee na aavai tot.​
There is no shortage of those who preach and teach.​
ਕਿਥ ਕਿਥ ਕਥੀ ਕੋਟੀ ਕੋਿਟ ਕੋਿਟ ॥​
kath kath kathee kotee kot kot.​
Millions upon millions offer millions of sermons and stories.​
ਦੇਦਾ ਦੇ ਲੈਦੇ ਥਿਕ ਪਾਿਹ ॥​
daydaa day laiday thak paahi.​
The Great Giver keeps on giving, while those who receive grow weary of receiving.​
ਜੁਗਾ ਜੁਗੰਤਿਰ ਖਾਹੀ ਖਾਿਹ ॥​
jugaa jugantar khaahee khaahi.​
Throughout the ages, consumers consume.​
ਹਕੁ ਮੀ ਹਕੁ ਮੁ ਚਲਾਏ ਰਾਹ ੁ ॥​
hukmee hukam chalaa-ay raahu.​
The Commander, by His Command, leads us to walk on the Path.

Sat Sri Akal
 
Sep 21, 2010
44
79
In the first pauri of Japuji the line “Sochai soch na hovei jey sochai lakh var (ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥)” the meaning of word ‘Sochai’ (ਸੋਚੈ) means ‘by ritually cleansing’ and word ‘Soch’ (ਸੋਚਿ ) means the act of ritual cleansing. These words could also mean ‘thinking’ and ‘act of thinking’ , and indeed we find these meanings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. However, the context of the ongoing theme helps us to decide the intended meaning.
Ritual cleansing as meaning of word Soch or Sochai in Sri Guru Granth Sahib appears at the following instances also.
page 59
‘we cannot find Hari (God) without devotion and love’
ਕਾਇਆ ਸੋਚ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਪਿਆਰ ॥
page 265
‘(You) carry on ritually cleansing (yourself however,) the filth defiling the mind does not go away (merely) by cleansing the body’
ਸੋਚ ਕਰੈ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਅਰੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਤਨ ਤੇ ਜਾਤਿ ॥
page 495
‘(you) roamed the entire globe ritually bathing on the sixty eight places of pilgrimage. You make it a point to ritually keep yourself clean day and night, however, without a satgur (true teacher) you are all the time in the dark.
ਅਠਸਠਿ ਮਜਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਇਸਨਾਨਾ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਏ ਧਰ ਸਾਰੀ ॥ ਅਨਿਕ ਸੋਚ ਕਰਹਿ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅੰਧਿਆਰੀ
page 595
‘Set up your life span as the shop and the ‘true name’ as the stock to sell. Make your cleansed consciousness as the containers (bhandsaal) and keep (the stock) in it.
ਹਾਣੁ ਹਟੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਰਜਾ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਥੁ ॥ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੋਚ ਕਰਿ ਭਾਂਡਸਾਲ ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਤਿਸ ਨੋ ਰਖੁ ॥
page 905
Within your mind you have the filth filling it, however, you carry on roaming and bathing at the pilgrimage places. If mind is not cleansed what use is indulging in ritually cleansing your body.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਮੈਲੁ ਤੀਰਥ ਭਰਮੀਜੈ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਚਾ ਕਿਆ ਸੋਚ ਕਰੀਜੈ ॥
page 1266
O my Lord Hari, I have preapared foods, sweets and preparations of various kinds. I have purified the ritually cleansed the kitchen (paksaal, read my mind), now please begin taking the meal.
ਅਨਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਭੋਜਨ ਬਹੁ ਕੀਏ ਬਹੁ ਬਿੰਜਨ ਮਿਸਟਾਏ ॥ ਕਰੀ ਪਾਕਸਾਲ ਸੋਚ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰਾ
ਹੁਣਿ ਲਾਵਹੁ ਭੋਗੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਏ ॥
Humbly
Serjinder Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Jul 4, 2004
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KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
Sahni Ji..you are absolutley right..the word THAAK is...SETTLE DOWN...QUIETEN DOWN..as in Thaak haar ke beth giyah..after all the Running around endlessly..one gets tired out and settles down...same for the Mann...it WILL run for all its worth..BUT will eventually settle down and rest..IF Gurparsaad is realised.
 

harbax singh

SPNer
Jul 20, 2010
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VEER JI,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji Ki Fateh.

Oone Translates it as rityal purity and other translates it as Thinking. However, both converge at one point ie. The Akaal Purkh is not bound by (Keeping Purity or Thougths).

If any other holi thinker translates in other any way with same convergence point then bhai sahib ji, all are right.

On the other hand, as the pankti (tukk) ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥ vish 'Lakh Vaar' ik ginti suchak shabad hai, jo asin soch vaste varton kar sakde han, sucham vaste nahin. Is lai jo Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa Ji di viakhya ess pankti lai tukvin hae.

Daas di eh apni soch hai. Bhull chook muaf karniji.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji Ki Fateh.

HARBAX SINGH.
 

Naam

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Oct 15, 2010
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waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki feath, veer Harbax singh ji, with due respect i agree we some of your thoughts,
it is the line ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ the words have to be discussed and the meanings MUST be taken from another part from the guru granth ji. we cannot explain these words from OUR MINDLY THOUGHTS
there are many shabads from the gurbani that explain these ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ words. the gurbani is big piece of jewellery with diamonds all around it, when carefully looked at we will find the answers, MINDLY THOUGHTS CANNOT BE TAKEN,
The question is HOW to meet with god, all mankind with this thought have been DOING things in order to complete this mission, when guru nanak came on this earth he looks the bamuns and see's the things they are up to( with sikhisum is doing now) this cleary defines one of the thing we do " socha eh na akieh bahan ja pinda tuoe"
you are not ਸੋਚਿ even if you take a bath ...you may have a clean body but your "MUN" is not clean.
the whole point is How to be come clean ??? "MUN saf" which is what matters.
guru gobind singh ji is saying the same thing." nath ferio sath sumondar lok gaeo parlok gaveo"
please vist this website and you will find lots here which i happen to cross
www.sabdavartara.org.

humble servant.
 

japjisahib04

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Jan 22, 2005
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Sahni Ji..you are absolutley right..the word THAAK is...SETTLE DOWN...QUIETEN DOWN..as in Thaak haar ke beth giyah..after all the Running around endlessly..one gets tired out and settles down...same for the Mann...it WILL run for all its worth..BUT will eventually settle down and rest..IF Gurparsaad is realised.
Giani Ji,
Similarly most of the scholars have not done justice with the following pankti of Fareed Ji bearing the word 'thak', 'ਚਲਿ ਚਲਿ ਗਈਆਂ ਪੰਖੀਆਂ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਵਸਾਏ ਤਲ ਫਰੀਦਾ ਸਰੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਭੀ ਚਲਸੀ ਥਕੇ ਕਵਲ ਇਕਲ ੬੬॥' Fareed, the overflowing pool shall also pass away, and only the lotus flowers shall remain. Though this sabd is written in optimism but interpetaiton of this pankti is done by almost all the scholar in pessimism. Even if a child is told that everything will perish then he will ask in that case shall I study or not. If we read gurbani from this angle then we will interprete it wrong. The positive interpretation will only come when one is blessed with the gems of divine sabd after conquering the vikars and this is what bhagat farid is trying is project in this pankti.

Best regards
sahni mohinder
 

sunmukh

(Previously Himmat Singh)
SPNer
Feb 19, 2010
108
136
UK
In my opinon, somewhere in back of our minds we are fearful. We dont want to believe, we dont want

to accept, we want to oppose, we want to be distinct, we want to stand out and we want others to

say that we are the only ones who know GOD. ( whereas 'WE' is used for human beings, not just

sikhs)

Does not all these desires and wantings contradict the very basic thoughts in Sri Guru Granth Sahib

ji?

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

I think this is the very reason why there are so many religions, sects, subsects etc, all proclaiming knowledge, as spoken of by Guru Nanak Dev ji in pauri 3 of Jap ji Sahib beginning

"ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਤਾਣੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਿਕਸੈ ਤਾਣੁ ॥​
gaavai ko taan hovai kisai taan.​
Some sing of His Power-who has that Power?​
ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਦਾਿਤ ਜਾਣੈ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥​
gaavai ko daat jaanai neesaan.​
Some sing of His Gifts, and know His Sign and Insignia."

For the same reason, there is his proclamation that he is neither Hindoo, or Mussalman. SGGS ji urges his disciples to become Sikhs of the Guru with a view to losing their own identity and merging their own with that of Satguru (found within the temple of the mind). Until there is surrender to Satguru, thus allowing Satguru to take charge and be responsible for all our affairs, (as in Anand Sahib), we will retain self-identity, with concomitant drawbacks. One has to consider whether one wishes to do this. Only a few will even make the attempt to keep on accepting others' views could be of equal or greater merit than their own, or at the least listen/read attentively with a view to learning something new, without getting passionate and wishing to expressing their own, louder than others. In this way people cannot lose their sense of duality. Until then we will keep on projecting our own opinions. It is an inevitable consequence of a strong self-identity, which eventually results in side-effects such as anger, jealousy, hate, abuse and possibly even violence. A young child does not have this problem - it is keen to learn from its respected parents, that it places all trust in. The child loves the parent and the parent loves the child. However once the ego has developed, and the child does not get quite it's way, then problems begin to arise and develop. The parent struggles and struggles to impart lessons the way it thinks, and the child with a different line of thought resents the arduous lessons it is put through. Eventually there is too much to bear and a split occurs. Both are left unhappy.

Guru ji requests us to rebuild that intiial relationship - we are the young children of Satguru who is our parent- both father and mother. We are to put all trust in Satguru, the parent. Our own ego is to dissolve, to be replaced with that of our innate but much wiser, mature, truthful, virtuous Satguru, the seed left by the Almighty Lord. In that way there is merger of thought with no internal conflicts, two way love, and continuous happiness. Each time we please Satguru, He rewards us by showing His pleasure, which makes us even more pleased. It becomes a self-developing cycle of increasing happiness. Satguru dwells in the mind, but external events lead us astray, whether they are "good" or "bad". We look outside again and again, but the parent is everpresent in the home of the body-village, so very near.

I very much liked the way you spoke of use of poetry.
Thank you

Sat Sri Akal
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Harbax Singh Ji..
You are right that the words .."Lakh Vaar" is Gintee suchak....and is avery common muhavaraa or idiom in Punjabi. A mother will say...Mein taenu LAKH VAAR kiha ke eh kaam na kar par tuun hatiah nee....or a teacher will say..I have told you a LAKH VAAR to not come late to school but you still come late..etc.

2. What is the REALITY....in Hinduism there were NOT just one or two BATHING TEERATHS....BUT 68 !! and Bathing at EACH and EVERYONE of these 68 was compulsory..( SIKHS TODAY have also created as many..if NOT more Bathing SAROVARS..and continue to INDULGE in such actions as..Panj Khoohaan da Paanee..Sant Babas off and on publicly go to places in Pakistan and bring abck holy watrs from Panja Sahib..etc etc or Baba farid Jis village well. or Bhai mardanas Jis well or such and such...and MIX these waters into some other Sarovars..presumably to REINFORCE/STRENGTHEN the original or rceiving Sarovar water !!!) Also every 12 Years a HUGE MELA was held at KUMBH TIME at HARDWAAR where MILLIONS made a compulsory journey to bathe...Ganga Bathing was COMPULSORY..even for the DEAD..ashes had to be immersed into the Ganga....It was thought very fortunate to DIE near the Gnaga..Kabir ji purposely wennt FAR AWAY from GANGA to DIE to prove this FUTILE PHILOSOPHY as NONSENSE..at every EXCUSE...the Brahmin/Pandit/Prohit would DEMAND "GANGA JAL" ( failing that cow URINE would do the same job !!) to PURIFY...SUCHAM..this and that.

3. AT HUNDREDS of places in the SGGS.."RITUALISED BATHING" as a means to attain the CREATOR is shown as FUTILE..usless and even IDIOTIC....Gurbani tells us that IF Bathing attains the Creator then the FROGS and FISHES and WATER INHABITING CREATURES win HANDS DOWN..becasue the Human cannot possibly OUT-BATHE them..eve if he/she bathes a LAKH VAAR !!

..BOTTOM LINE.....SEARCH WITHIN...THE SGGS.....for answers to all riddles..and the answer is THERE. Search 'elsewhere"....failure is end result. BATHING was and STILL IS...one of the easiest thought methods to attain "union with the Creator"...and he entire SGGS DENIES THIS ......LAKH VAAR !!!cheerleader
 

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