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In Sikhism, Is There A Soul? Who Created The Soul? Who Controls The Soul?

Harry Haller

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Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

Sorry, I do worry about the translation, a lot..............
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

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Veera even if you read it in punjabi like you say you will, it has still been kind of 'translated' to that as it was written down in a joined up form originally, I think it is referred to as gurmukhi but there might be a scholarly term for it.
 

Ishna

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Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

If you have peace in life, death is just a smooth transition,

uhmm tell that to the many peace loving people who have lost lives in civil unrest, wars, rapes, riots, all people in the wrong place at the wrong time

the trouble with life is that there is no divine, no smoothness, no easy quick transitions, it is hard, and sometimes peace is taken away from you, you react according to Gurbani as to whether to fight for peace, fight for life, these all encompassing statements, to me, seem like the very quotes that you hear from sants and babas trying to peddle their 'way'

no offence intended brotherji, I know we can speak frankly to each other

Harry Bhaji, I think Sinner ji was going on my initial post.

I like to think about the examples Gyani ji often gives of Sikhs from history being tortured and chanting Japji Sahib until their death.

I think suffering is largely a point-of-view thing, but I feel sorry for people who never get to grasp hold of the Guru's feet to get that level of peace to begin with.

And as you well know, I am far from that level of peace in my own mind.

But I also agree with your statement about Gurbani giving meaning to life and providing tools to overcome obstacles.

Ishna

*sits on her hands so she doesn't type O/T anymore!*
 
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I consider soul to any living body as energy battery to any vehicle.So the soul can be taken as fuel for the living bodies.Just as no vehicle can be in use without fuel so is any living body without soul.Different bodies have different quantum of power of soul so we find different living bodies have different period of natural death.
This is just a thought.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Harry Haller

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I consider soul to any living body as energy battery to any vehicle.So the soul can be taken as fuel for the living bodies.Just as no vehicle can be in use without fuel so is any living body without soul.Different bodies have different quantum of power of soul so we find different living bodies have different period of natural death.
This is just a thought.
Prakash.S.Bagga

I humbly disagree Prakashji, the fuel that we need as living bodies I would say comes from food, not soul, I see plenty of living bodies every day that use up plenty of fuel, but have no soul, or a tiny soul that is not being fed in anyway,.

Unfortunately, In my disagreement with you, I am unable to offer any betterment of your words, but I will certainly think about this. There is this tree, outside my shop window, it has been waving at me all morning, I will go to the park opposite my shop later and ask it :)
 

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Harry Haller ji,
Thank you for disagreeing which I take as obvious.We can keep in mind that food can be considered as supplementary source of enegy whereas Soul energy is the Real energy .Like Sun Energy is the Real Energy for vegitation but water,mannure etc are supplement for growth.
I think we should try to know what exists beyond the physical form/forms of the Universe.Isnt this interseting?
We also learn that Soul can not be cut.destroyed by fire or drowned by water so such a thing can be eternal only.What transforms is the Jeev{Thought) in different forms and this JEEV(thought) along with Soul takes up a new journey untill merged with the infinite.
Prakash.s.Bagga
 

Harry Haller

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Harry Haller ji,
Thank you for disagreeing which I take as obvious.We can keep in mind that food can be considered as supplementary source of enegy whereas Soul energy is the Real energy .Like Sun Energy is the Real Energy for vegitation but water,mannure etc are supplement for growth.
I think we should try to know what exists beyond the physical form/forms of the Universe.Isnt this interseting?
We also learn that Soul can not be cut.destroyed by fire or drowned by water so such a thing can be eternal only.What transforms is the Jeev{Thought) in different forms and this JEEV(thought) along with Soul takes up a new journey untill merged with the infinite.
Prakash.s.Bagga

Like you Prakashji, I find it hugely interesting and quite exciting. I will tell you what the tree told me, as I went to walk out, the butcher next door called me back and asked if I could go and buy him some bread, well 10 loaves of bread while I was out, so I walked to the bakery first, on the way back to my tree, I thought, how am I supposed to ask the tree about soul with hands full of bread, anyway I found the tree, as I walked up to it, an acorn fell in front of me.

The questions of soul, what happens after death, who created soul, these are good questions, but I do not believe they must be meditated on, they can be debated whilst we carry on with our lives, working, playing, sleeping, when we get a spare minute it is great to ponder the unponderable, but to spend a moment purely in the pursuit of unanswerable questions is a waste of time and energy, as there is no conclusive answer. As we go through life, we leave bits of our soul with people, in the way we treat them, talk to them, interact with them, some may remember us forever, but for the wrong reasons, I do not quite know what the soul is, or what happens to it, but I do know it was made for sharing, for leaving an imprint on others, be they animals, or humans, or even vegetation, our actions to others define our soul, as our soul defines actions to others, it is, as are many things circular,

that is what the tree told me, but then Prakashji, for you to be able to ponder such questions is a testimony to the level of understanding you have reached, but to which I fall extremely short, (the tree told me that too)
 
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Harry hallar ji,
Thank you for your nice response and I feel greatly humbled with last two lines of your message.
My Dear Son(I think i can use this reference from my age considerations),Read Gurbani as much as you can.The beauty of this scripture is that the more you read,the more you learn.Each time you read,You grow morein understanding.A moment may come when you would be virtually listening to satiGuru ji.
Prakash S.Bagga
 

Harry Haller

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Prakashji,

many thanks for your kind sentiments, do you think that we can hear Satguru all the time, We just do not listen?
 
Aug 28, 2010
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HARRY HALLAR Ji,
We learn from Gurbani How important is the Role of Just listening in resulting in overall transformation in ones status(Ref Jap ji for this)'
It is true that many of us dont know how to listen.Moreover we are not required to listen all the times.We are required to listen while reading.Even for a while unison of reading and listening is just miraculously effective.
We have to bring our mental state to such a level .There are several dimensions of listening this we can take up gradually.Since Gurbani is complete and perfect lyric.You can imagine listening to a music of your liking .How you feel lost and be with the music only.The same status is required to be maintained with Gurbani listening too.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

seeker3k

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We also learn that Soul can not be cut. destroyed by fire or drowned by water
This is from gita.
All the religions are based on soul. Every religion is trying to save the soul.
Some time ago scientist (don’t ask me who was that scientist) said that energy can not be created nor can it be destroyed. This was picked up by the religious people and claimed that soul is energy.
It is like no one have seen god nor any one seen soul. Yet every one believes in both.
Soul is also called joyt. At the time of death joys will merge with the supper joyt. The joyt was with god was separated from god. Ever since then it is trying to get back to the source. But no one knows what source. Very interesting.
The question is who separate that soul and why? Some claim that soul is like a drop of rain drop. It will travel from the top of the hills and through the rivers and will merge back in the sea. Will that end the cycle of the rebirth of the soul? The soul was there before it was pushed out. At that place soul do no karma. Then why the soul was was pushed out. And going back will guarantee that it will stay there.
I really don’t know where the Sikhism stands on this.
I try to find out from giani, bhai ji, even Maskeen. There is no one can explain the system. The rebirth of Hinduism don’t make any sense to ME.
Some one said the religion is biggest scam there is.
I don’t know about that…
 

Ambarsaria

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seeker3k ji I thank you immensely to debunk some of the garbage about soul splitting, energy, waves, etc. , to make them sound like Sikhism concepts.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Even though we differ in areas and that is human but in this post you hit the nail right on the head. You are going to get lot of nagging rebuttals to your post from some spners learn to ignore and don't get frustrated. Such people are a great dis-service to future generations of young Sikhs and they are too old to reform is my experience since early this year.

In terms of Sikhism, it is clear that the promoters of re-incarnation, soul living will also some day tell you that such a such person is actually Guru Nanak Dev ji or Guru Gobind Singh ji's soul. There are already few Babey/Sant/Dehras, etc., who already exploit this garbage. Shame on such people. In Sikhism you are born, you live and you die. Good living guidance, teaching and living in consonance with the creator and creation is what Sikhism focuses on, rest is garbage.



Sat Sri Akal.
 
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SEEKER 3k ji,
I think if you can go thru Bani of Sukhmani Sahib in SGGS I aam sure you may find some relevent answers to what you negate in your message.
There is no concept of GOD in SGGS .This assumpton itself prevents anyone from understanding the true messages of Gubani.
There can be no solutions for better understanding if we close the eyes from the facts given in SGGS .It all is dependent on the grace of the Creator Prabhu(Ultimate Lord)
I can only pray Sati Guru ji to provide grace to all for correct way of thinking.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Seeker9

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seeker3k ji I thank you immensely to debunk some of the garbage about soul splitting, energy, waves, etc. , to make them sound like Sikhism concepts.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Even though we differ in areas and that is human but in this post you hit the nail right on the head. You are going to get lot of nagging rebuttals to your post from some spners learn to ignore and don't get frustrated. Such people are a great dis-service to future generations of young Sikhs and they are too old to reform is my experience since early this year.

In terms of Sikhism, it is clear that the promoters of re-incarnation, soul living will also some day tell you that such a such person is actually Guru Nanak Dev ji or Guru Gobind Singh ji's soul. There are already few Babey/Sant/Dehras, etc., who already exploit this garbage. Shame on such people. In Sikhism you are born, you live and you die. Good living guidance, teaching and living in consonance with the creator and creation is what Sikhism focuses on, rest is garbage.



Sat Sri Akal.


Dear Ambarsaria Ji

I can see from your posts you have passion for Sikhism and I have no doubt I have much to learn from you and others as I have already done since I joined SPN

However, I found some of your comments above overbearing and would respectfully draw your attention to the stated terms and conditions of this forum as follows:

Comparative religious discussions can be educational, but ridiculing other faiths or excessive criticism of their beliefs is not constructive and it is not allowed on SPN. We need to be tolerant of our differences and accept people for what they are instead of being critical of their beliefs. All allegations must be backed up by verifiable references from neutral sources.

Critically Important: Sometimes, our zeal to defend the Sikh identity and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji may lead us to forget that the Sikh Rehat Maryada commands us to respect other religions. When you criticize practices of other religions, or its prominent figures past and present, please weigh your words carefully. Comments and opinions that unjustly generalize or deliberately intend to hurt religious sentiments of followers of other faiths & philosophies, that are inaccurate and or cannot be supported by historical evidence, or that promote negative stereotypes, will be edited or deleted without notice. The major aim of SPN is bridging the gaps between the religions and Failure to comply may result in termination of your membership.
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

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Seeker9 ji , Ambarsaria ji is normally balanced in his approach ,I don't think TOS was violated. We must practice more reciprocity if he said your post was good thats much better than he is with me, I drew my sword too fast earlier and cut myself but I had no choice as that is the Musketeers codemundahug
 

Ambarsaria

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Dear Ambarsaria Ji

I can see from your posts you have passion for Sikhism and I have no doubt I have much to learn from you and others as I have already done since I joined SPN

However, I found some of your comments above overbearing and would respectfully draw your attention to the stated terms and conditions of this forum as follows:

Comparative religious discussions can be educational, but ridiculing other faiths or excessive criticism of their beliefs is not constructive and it is not allowed on SPN. We need to be tolerant of our differences and accept people for what they are instead of being critical of their beliefs. All allegations must be backed up by verifiable references from neutral sources.

Critically Important: Sometimes, our zeal to defend the Sikh identity and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji may lead us to forget that the Sikh Rehat Maryada commands us to respect other religions. When you criticize practices of other religions, or its prominent figures past and present, please weigh your words carefully. Comments and opinions that unjustly generalize or deliberately intend to hurt religious sentiments of followers of other faiths & philosophies, that are inaccurate and or cannot be supported by historical evidence, or that promote negative stereotypes, will be edited or deleted without notice. The major aim of SPN is bridging the gaps between the religions and Failure to comply may result in termination of your membership.
Seeker9 ji show me where I criticized other religions in my post. I have not changed it yet. Others Sikhs are injecting ridiculous statements in the context of Sikhism and only that is debated. If a Sikh gets hurt it is too bloody bad. If they are misleading the youth with wrong messages or mis-representing Gurbani without proper quoting, it is of more consequence to speak up regardless of your interpretation of the TOS in this forum. Too much energy, waves by armchair Einesteins.

I suppose you don't see what I see and that is part of life.

Sat Sri Akal.

Deleted some language that will only further digression and arguments. spnadmin

I am not complaining. lol mundahug. Brothers should go at each other once in a while. It is OK.
 

Seeker9

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Seeker9 ji show me where I criticized other religions in my post. I have not changed it yet. Others Sikhs are injecting ridiculous statements in the context of Sikhism and only that is debated. If a Sikh gets hurt it is too bloody bad. If they are misleading the youth with wrong messages or mis-representing Gurbani without proper quoting, it is of more consequence to speak up regardless of your interpretation of the TOS in this forum. Too much energy, waves by armchair Einesteins.

I suppose you don't see what I see and that is part of life.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: Brother look at your own post that has lot more potential violations of the TOS,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/37159-sikhism-there-soul-who-created-soul-2.html#post154468

I am not complaining. lol


Dear Ambarsaria Ji

I think it is possible for you to say you disagree with a view instead of dismissing it as garbage and then accusing other posters of having some agenda to mislead future generations

I thought this was supposed to be an open forum and not one where "If a Sikh gets hurt it is too bloody bad."

Anyway, to that end, I have re-categorised myself as "A learner" to emphasis that anything I post is my thoughts alone and not based on an intimate knowledge of Gurbani I do not possess. Whilst I value Sikhi above any other path I have come across to date, the last thing I want to do is mislead anyone

As for TOS, I pasted the entire paragraph for context but the bits I had read were:

"We need to be tolerant of our differences and accept people for what they are instead of being critical of their beliefs"

"Comments and opinions that unjustly generalize or deliberately intend to hurt religious sentiments of followers of other faiths & philosophies, that are inaccurate and or cannot be supported by historical evidence, or that promote negative stereotypes, will be edited or deleted without notice."

This is in the context of what I noted earlier about Garbage and groups of people out to mislead future generations

As for my earlier post, not sure what TOS violations I have done but happy to apologise and withdraw the post if that is the case

Sorry I have upset you but I was also upset by your post

I still have a high regard for your contributions and am still here to learn
 
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