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In Sikhism, Is There A Soul? Who Created The Soul? Who Controls The Soul?

Harry Haller

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It is surprising to see how gracefully we accept the classification of Sikh as Hindu Sikh,SanatanSikh...and so.so.
Cant we have only a GurSikh who is enshrined with all basic attributes of teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .
It seems to be hard to find any such GurSikh.?
Prakash.S.Bagga

To gracefully accept different classifications is what being a Gursikh is all about, by the very nature of not accepting is going against what the very essence of Sikhism

A Gursikh does not have a monopoly on Mukti, however, I believe there is more chance of finding Mukti, as described by Guruji, by being consistent with Guruji's teachings. This is a definitive and well mapped route that is open to all, with a guaranteed pass rate provided one follow the course, and does the coursework.

However if one stumbles across Mukti by other methods, who are we to judge
I remember at school there were always people that needed little schooling or guidance, they were naturals, I am not fortunate enough to be one of them so I am careful to follow the syllabus in its entirety
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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The problem is mainly becasue we Sikhs of Guru nanak Ji simply REFUSE to follow what HE says..we prefer what the old traditionally accepted ways said..the Brahmins..the yogis, the everybody else....GURU NANAK REJECTS ALL those 110%..NOT 100 but 110%.

Birth Death..people take this as Natural Birth (baby born)..and Death as body lifeless..BUT Guru Ji has a different outlook as well...( Besides the Natural birth-death recycling process of Nature)..

Guru nanak ji declares..AAkhan jeevan..VISREHN..Mar jaavan.. ਆਖਾ ਜੀਵਾ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਉ॥
ਰਾਗ ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੯ Raag asa mahalla 1 page 9.


This BIRTH and DEATH is NOT the natural life/death of the Body..this is something entirely different and which NO ONE Talks about..except GURU NANAK.


GURMATT is the ONLY Path that deals WITH THIS WORLD..our Present LIFE..and Promises NO heavens, beautiful damsels,Virgins, golden mansions, rivers of honey and milk etc etc etc.. It doesnt promise you will get to "meet" your smiling Granddaddy, granny mum brother etc who have died and are in Heaven awaiting YOU...NOTHING OF THAT SORT. It also doesnt say you will roast in Hell, you will be cut from limb to limb..you will this and that in HELL...No Inducements and no punishments..Raaj na chahon Mukat na chahon..only PREET of His Charans..the love of FOLLOWING and Practising HIS Teachings IN THIS LIFE.
IN FACT Gurbani is Not an IOTA concerned with,..."life after death"..its concenrnd with HERE and NOW....see how beautifully its written..
ਪਹਿਲਾ ਮਰਣੁ ਕਬੂਲਿ, ਜੀਵਣ ਕੀ ਛਡਿ ਆਸ॥
ਹੋਹੁ ਸਭਨਾ ਕੀ ਰੇਣੁਕਾ, ਤਉ ਆਉ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਪਾਸਿ॥ 1॥
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਰੂ ਮ: 5 {ਪੰਨਾ 1102} ACCEPT "DEATH"..and Leave any hopes of LIFE...become the lowest of the LOW and come to ME..This is WHY..the worlds HARSHEST TORTURES to the HUMAN BODY couldnt chnage a Single SIKH to CONVERT....because they had already DIED while LIVING...Not doing "good deeds..daan donating to Brahmins etc.etc.." in order to get into "heaven"...they were already in HEAVEN while ALIVE....Bhai Mati dass being SAWED ALIVE was in HEAVEN because His GURU was in front of him..looking at HIM was HEAVEN...
All religions teach/induce/FRIGHTEN the LIVING..that AFTER DEATH will come all the rewards..the punishments..the joons..the reincarnations etc etc...
GURMATT TEACHES THIS LIFE...here and NOW.

ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਛੋਡਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਰਸ, ਇਤੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਨਿਹਚਉ ਮਰਣਾ॥
ਰਮਈਆ ਜਪਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ, ਅਨਤ ਜੀਵਣ ਬਾਣੀ, ਇਨਿ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਤਰਣਾ॥
ਸਿਰੀ ਰਾਗ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਪੰਨਾ ੯੨--Bhagat Kabir Sri raag Page 92- Bhagat Kabir calls those "DEAD"..they who have been engrossed in lifes pleasures.kaam krodh etc etc....and they ALIVE...they who FOLLOW the Naam in their Daily Lives....they FLOAT ACROSS the Ocean of Maya....this is talking about the HERE and NOW..the PHYSICAL BODY...not the ...whatever happens after death...( no body knows and claims are all unsubstantiated because not a single person has ever come back from the dead.). One of Jarnail Singh Bhinderawalsh fav quotes was..I dont fear PHYSICAL DEATH..but i do fear AATMIC DEATH..becoming a COWARD..giving up my Principles..my Naam..my dharam..i fear MORAL DEATH...Cowards die a THOUSAND DEATHS..and this is not the death that takes one to the funeral parlour....THIS is the DEATH that GURBANI is concerned about...
NO ONE can ever do anything to STOP the Natural laws..DEATH comes and has come to ALL...no matter if they claimed to be Son of God..or His last messenger..or Prophets..or people like Lazarus raised from the "dead" still DIED again....and GURBANI is NOT concerned about.."keeping you alive for ever..its all about ensuring you are "ALIVE" morally and not sinking into the depths of Immorality..animal behaviour, zalim, cruel, faithless, rapists, murderers, looters of paraya haak..etc etc....

Gurbani is to teach one how to be a HUMAN DAILY..and not a dog..greedy...elephant..kaamee lusty...donkey..stupid...pig..gluttony..etc etc etc..Gurbani doesnt say and is not concerned about a person being LUSTY while alive just so that he can be frightened into assuming he will be born a PIG after he dies...and that fright will change him/stop his lusty behaviour....no jios..Gurbani teaches How to avoid being LUSTY while alive..and thus not be a PIG in Human form..Kartoot passu ki manas Jaat !!


Each of us has seen a Log fire burning..Punjabis celebrate Lohri....so they should be familiar with this...when ever a Log fire is disturbed...one cna watch how sparks fly up..and then back into the same Fire...Guru Amardass Ji gives such an example...
ਲੋਭੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਾ॥
ਮਰਿ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਪਤਿ ਗਵਾਏ ਆਪਣੀ, ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਵਣਿਆ॥ 3॥
ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੨੦ – Maajh mahalla 3 page 120...a man full of greed, lobh, anger, pride....is BORN into those daily each MORNING when he awakes...he LIVES his 24 hours engrossed in those greed, kaam, krodh, lobh, moh hankaar. ..and when at night he puts his head down to sleep..HE DIES engrossed in those..and thus he is EFFECTIVELY WASTING HIS LIFE...on a DAILY BASIS !! This GURBANI is PRACTICAL..all the person has to do to stop being BORN and DIE daily..is to CUT out and REMOVE the cause of his daily birth/death...while LIVING...and become a GURMUKH. This si the Goal of GURMATT..to transform a manmukh into GURMUKH while ALIVE....


TO really get the true Divine Message of gurbani one needs a A PARADIGM SHIFT....which most are unable to do becasue of the weight of excess baggage we have been surrounded with from the earlier messengers, brahmins, etc etc..GURU NANAK gave a Brand new GYAAN..110% NEW.
ਜੰਮਣ ਮਰਣਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਤਿਨਿ ਕਰਤੈ ਕੀਆ॥
ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਮਰਿ ਰਹੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਥੀਆ॥
ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੪੨੦— Asa mah 1 page 420...The world trats the physically dead as 'dead"..THAT is Natural law of the Creator and in HIS Domain..not man's...the really DEAD is one who has REMOVED the I and the ME..and the EGO from his daily jeevan...life...and such a person NEVER DIES !!..and so if he never dies..how is he going to be reborn ?? Its clear the GURU is talking about this LIFE....because no man can over rule the creators Laws..on bodily death...and what happens then is also the Creators domain.


Apologies for not giving cut and pastes form srigranth org etc because i dont buy those...any one interested can go by the page numbers provided to search there.
 
Aug 28, 2010
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GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
With all due respect to your message I would like to share a Sabad as
ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੮ ਦੁਪਦੇ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਸਿਮਰਉ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵਉ ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਸਮਾਲੇ ॥ ਇਹ ਲੋਕਿ ਪਰਲੋਕਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਹਾਈ ਜਤ ਕਤ ਮੋਹਿ ਰਖਵਾਲੇ ॥੧॥ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਬਚਨੁ ਬਸੈ ਜੀਅ ਨਾਲੇ ॥ ਜਲਿ ਨਹੀ ਡੂਬੈ ਤਸਕਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਲੇਵੈ ਭਾਹਿ ਨ ਸਾਕੈ ਜਾਲੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਨਿਰਧਨ ਕਉ ਧਨੁ ਅੰਧੁਲੇ ਕਉ ਟਿਕ ਮਾਤ ਦੂਧੁ ਜੈਸੇ ਬਾਲੇ ॥ ਸਾਗਰ ਮਹਿ ਬੋਹਿਥੁ ਪਾਇਓ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਿਰਪਾਲੇ ॥੨॥੧॥੩੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 679}

In this Sabad Gurbanee is clearly giving the message for THIS WORLD and SOME OTHER WORLD too.You can rectify me if my understanding is wrong here.

With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Harry Haller

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ਇਹ ਲੋਕਿ ਪਰਲੋਕਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਹਾਈ ਜਤ ਕਤ ਮੋਹਿ ਰਖਵਾਲੇ ॥੧॥
इह लोकि परलोकि संगि सहाई जत कत मोहि रखवाले ॥१॥
Ih lok parlok sang sahā▫ī jaṯ kaṯ mohi rakẖvāle.
||1|| In this world and the world beyond, God, my succour is with me and protects me everywhere.

MY own take on this Prakashji is that Guruji is once again mentioning a base point for people of the time, in the same way that Hindu Deities are mentioned, Hindu concepts are also mentioned. If one were to embrace the concept of world beyond as definitive, than one would also have to embrace that Shiva actually exists too, so the question I would ask you is do you believe that Shiva exists? If you do not, than you have answered your own question
 
Aug 28, 2010
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ਇਹ ਲੋਕਿ ਪਰਲੋਕਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਹਾਈ ਜਤ ਕਤ ਮੋਹਿ ਰਖਵਾਲੇ ॥੧॥
इह लोकि परलोकि संगि सहाई जत कत मोहि रखवाले ॥१॥
Ih lok parlok sang sahā▫ī jaṯ kaṯ mohi rakẖvāle.
||1|| In this world and the world beyond, God, my succour is with me and protects me everywhere.

MY own take on this Prakashji is that Guruji is once again mentioning a base point for people of the time, in the same way that Hindu Deities are mentioned, Hindu concepts are also mentioned. If one were to embrace the concept of world beyond as definitive, than one would also have to embrace that Shiva actually exists too, so the question I would ask you is do you believe that Shiva exists? If you do not, than you have answered your own question

As such there seems to be no reference of Hindu concept unless you have been informed like that and you have accepted this.
Pl also look at the following Sabad for your reference
ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ ॥ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ ਆਪਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਬੁਝਾਏ ॥ ਤੋੜੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਏ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇ ਸੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਏਕਸ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝਾਏ ॥੨੬॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 920}
Pl take a note of the concept Siv -Sakati .
Now Siv-Sakati is a Hindu concept being accepted as creation of the Creator.
I think we should see the context of Gurbanee with an open mind.
Prakash.s.Bagga
 

Harry Haller

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The interpretation I am sticking by is that these are cultural references that do NOT validate the existence of the concepts or deities mentioned
 

Ambarsaria

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The interpretation I am sticking by is that these are cultural references that do NOT validate the existence of the concepts or deities mentioned
Let us shake our booties and recognize the art of a teacher as that Guru ji perfected to get across to all around. The following video off topic by design just skull candy to remedy myopia in thinking. It is incredible to see the expression and body language of the white folks in the audience in the first video. The artist got through against all this. Our spiritual "Daddies", our Guru jis were very KOOL cheeringmunda

BONEY M - DADDY COOL - YouTube

Bob Marley- Could you be loved - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5gNYVia2rg
Sat Sri Akal
 
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Aug 28, 2010
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The interpretation I am sticking by is that these are cultural references that do NOT validate the existence of the concepts or deities mentioned

I think there should be some accepted criterion of validation.We can not validate any concept of our own and classify it accordingly.
Any way it all depends on personal way of thinking as set by the Creator.
Prakash.s.Bagga
 
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