Humans As Meat-Eaters: Some Perspectives From Science

[vegangoth]

One word.

Milk! You realise in how many things this is in.

There was probably other things but I cannot remember.

One thing I will say is that, Vegan at least are not hypocrites like some of our vegetarian Sikh fraternity, who seem to be in some kind of denial about Milk and how it is basically liquefied meat.

You are so right, I still can't belive in just how many things they put that stuff in. I mean why put it in bread for goodness sake? And about the veggie Sikhs again your so right, you may not be eating the meat but the way milk is gotten is just as cruel and unethical.

 

[Randip Singh]

You are so right, I still can't belive in just how many things they put that stuff in. I mean why put it in bread for goodness sake? And about the veggie Sikhs again your so right, you may not be eating the meat but the way milk is gotten is just as cruel and unethical.

Ironically vegetarian Sikhs eat milk products by the truck load (given its cruelty), but won't eat eggs. I have always found that amusing.

You will find that milk is in everything in Sikhism. The Karah Prashad has clarified butter in their, as well as most of the dishes cooked in the kitchen.

 

[vegangoth]

Ironically vegetarian Sikhs eat milk products by the truck load (given its cruelty), but won't eat eggs. I have always found that amusing.

You will find that milk is in everything in Sikhism. The Karah Prashad has clarified butter in their, as well as most of the dishes cooked in the kitchen.

That's what is worrying me cause soon ( hopefully) I'll be taking my first trip to a Gurdwara and and obviously dont want to cause any offense by not eating anything offerd to me. Perhaps I will need to leave my veganism at the door along with my shoes and socks.

 

[spnadmin]

vegangoth ji

Don't get too worried up front. Truly depending on the gurdwara and the food planned for the day there may be only a little bit of dairy. You are probably going to see roti, an Indian style mixed salad, 2 or 3 choices of dal's (made with lentils, definitely something with channa or chick peas). It wil be simple fare according to the thinking of Guru Amar Das. You will also be served each choice individually where you are sitting. You can refuse anything -- you don't have to eat everything that is offered. You can refuse seconds too.

 

[vegangoth]

vegangoth ji

Don't get too worried up front. Truly depending on the gurdwara and the food planned for the day there may be only a little bit of dairy. You are probably going to see roti, an Indian style mixed salad, 2 or 3 choices of dal's (made with lentils, definitely something with channa or chick peas). It wil be simple fare according to the thinking of Guru Amar Das. You will also be served each choice individually where you are sitting. You can refuse anything -- you don't have to eat everything that is offered. You can refuse seconds too.

Thanks for that, I feel less worried now and I'm sure I'm not the only vegan that has crossed their door lol

 

[spnadmin]

If you are offered what looks like ribbons of fried dough -- DON'T TURN IT DOWN!

 

[Satyaban]

What an interesting thread. I drink about three gallons of milk each week and see nothing wrong with it and the cows are pretty cool about it. They wander around, eat grass and appear to give of themselves quite unselfishly. Problems can arise when they are not miked on time no they don't like that at all. Cows are good and milk is good it is hardly liquefied meat and most importantly no one kills the cow to get the milk which for me makes all the difference. Butter is good and ghee is better. BTW I don't have a problem with vegetarian fed free range eggs

I think the hunting angle did alter our evolution and predated farming and domestication of animals. However we can grow the proper foods to have a good nutritious diet without eating meat. Here is the kicker the planet is not going to be able to support all of us and all of the cattle it would take to feed everyone. They eat too much, drink too much water, and their flatulence damages the air we breath. Eat em no sir, stop their procreation and let them die of old age, maybe have some in a zoo or side shows I don't know.

Peace
Satyaban

 

[BhagatSingh]

Eat em no sir, stop their procreation and let them die of old age, maybe have some in a zoo or side shows I don't know.

We see that sort of torture happen in India...
no thanks!

 

[vegangoth]

What an interesting thread. I drink about three gallons of milk each week and see nothing wrong with it and the cows are pretty cool about it. They wander around, eat grass and appear to give of themselves quite unselfishly. Problems can arise when they are not miked on time no they don't like that at all. Cows are good and milk is good it is hardly liquefied meat and most importantly no one kills the cow to get the milk which for me makes all the difference. Butter is good and ghee is better. BTW I don't have a problem with vegetarian fed free range eggs

oooooh! I can challange you on everything you have just written. Are you up for the challang?

I think the hunting angle did alter our evolution and predated farming and domestication of animals. However we can grow the proper foods to have a good nutritious diet without eating meat. Here is the kicker the planet is not going to be able to support all of us and all of the cattle it would take to feed everyone. They eat too much, drink too much water, and their flatulence damages the air we breath. Eat em no sir, stop their procreation and let them die of old age, maybe have some in a zoo or side shows I don't know.

Yup I agree but no zoo's there evil.]

 

[tony]

Sorry Satyaban ji but it is not the cows that eat to much, drink to much nor is flatulence destroying the air we breath, it is us humans who are the ones eating/ drinking to much and it is us that are destroying the earth. As for the reason to keep them and to drink their milk or eat their meat take a look at the B V (biological value) of the protein they provide. Beef has a BV of 83 and milk has a BV of 78, now the highest scoring veggie BV is soya milk which scores 73. Whole Egg scores 100. BV is the ratio of amino acids as required for the human body. Soya milk while it contains all the essential amino acids doesn't contain them in the right quantities/ ratio and therefore leaves the body short of certain essential amino's and these are the ones that we require to make all the other amino acids. And for the Vegans who think milk is bad look at the first meal you ever had. Milk is life giving without it no baby would get past day one,
Tony

 

[Randip Singh]

What an interesting thread. I drink about three gallons of milk each week and see nothing wrong with it and the cows are pretty cool about it. They wander around, eat grass and appear to give of themselves quite unselfishly. Problems can arise when they are not miked on time no they don't like that at all. Cows are good and milk is good it is hardly liquefied meat and most importantly no one kills the cow to get the milk which for me makes all the difference. Butter is good and ghee is better. BTW I don't have a problem with vegetarian fed free range eggs

No offence Satyaban but you need to learn some basic biology. The milk the cow produces is for its calf, but the calf is taken away.

You need to read on the biological process of how milk is produced:

http://foodallergens.ifr.ac.uk/food.lasso?selected_food=5000#summary

The blood proteins present in cow’s milk are also present in meat (beef).

http://www.milk.org/corporate/view.aspx?content=Faq/DairyCattle

In the cow's udder, small sacs, called alveoli, produce milk. The alveoli take the nutrients from the blood and add fat, protein and lactose (a type of sugar) to produce milk.

I think the hunting angle did alter our evolution and predated farming and domestication of animals. However we can grow the proper foods to have a good nutritious diet without eating meat. Here is the kicker the planet is not going to be able to support all of us and all of the cattle it would take to feed everyone. They eat too much, drink too much water, and their flatulence damages the air we breath. Eat em no sir, stop their procreation and let them die of old age, maybe have some in a zoo or side shows I don't know.

Peace
Satyaban

The hunter gatherer lifestyle is by far the greenest.

I don’t buy into that report written by a Vegetarian, Hindu Economist who works for the UN, that cites vegetarianism as away of saving the planet. It’s a nonsense, and his points have been rebutted. Yes we need to eat less in the west per se, but otherwise his report is biased.

 

[Randip Singh]

Sorry Satyaban ji but it is not the cows that eat to much, drink to much nor is flatulence destroying the air we breath, it is us humans who are the ones eating/ drinking to much and it is us that are destroying the earth. As for the reason to keep them and to drink their milk or eat their meat take a look at the B V (biological value) of the protein they provide. Beef has a BV of 83 and milk has a BV of 78, now the highest scoring veggie BV is soya milk which scores 73. Whole Egg scores 100. BV is the ratio of amino acids as required for the human body. Soya milk while it contains all the essential amino acids doesn't contain them in the right quantities/ ratio and therefore leaves the body short of certain essential amino's and these are the ones that we require to make all the other amino acids. And for the Vegans who think milk is bad look at the first meal you ever had. Milk is life giving without it no baby would get past day one,
Tony

Overcomsumption is the problem. You are correct.

 

[tony]

Yes Randip ji one only has to go to the gudwara and see how much food is scraped into the bin. peoples eyes are to big for their bellies, They buy to much from the supermarkets and it goes out of date, put to much on their plate, cook to much and it all ends up in the bin. it is estimated that Britain alone wastes enough food each year to feed an African nation for the same period, And with the extra packaging that goes with it we've just destroyed another rain forest. The best way to judge how much food you require is to cup your hands together and what fits in them is the right portion size for you, Six times a day and your on your way to a healthier life and its a good way to lose weight as well, no need for silly diets,
Tony

 

[Satyaban]

Friends
I am neither a dairyman, cattleman, farmer, biologist,physicist, scientist or any of those things.I have been a soldier and a host of other jobs but I am no scholar or expert.
That being said it is my understanding that after a cow has been calved she will keep giving milk as long as she is milked regularly. Cows are in perfect service to mankind as we should be to God. I believe.
My comment about zoos side shows was clearly a joke least I would have dressed it up with something like zoological park and petting zoo.
I don't need a discussion on whether cattle(read steers) are a growing burden on the planet and the greener hunter gatherer society doesn't deserve mention in the 21at century except in history books about how we got to where we are today. How green it was isn't an issue.
I think milk is great the problem in the states is they take it a part and then put it back together before selling it.

Peace
Satyaban

 

[spnadmin]

Friends
I think milk is great the problem in the states is they take it a part and then put it back together before selling it.

Peace
Satyaban

Yes we do do that.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

One word.

Milk! You realise in how many things this is in.

There was probably other things but I cannot remember.

One thing I will say is that, Vegan at least are not hypocrites like some of our vegetarian Sikh fraternity, who seem to be in some kind of denial about Milk and how it is basically liquefied meat.

I am one of those hypocritical vegetarians, I suppose. Thinking about it honestly, there are two main reasons I am vegetarian:

1. I object to killing innocent animals to sate my lust for meat, when I can live perfectly well without it.
2. I grew up that way.

Even there I have vegan considerations. For example, if I care about killing the critters, don't I also need to be concerned about how they are treated when alive? The treatment of dairy animals cannot bear close consideration by any compassionate human.

Then, giving a lot of credence to the vegan consideration are the ecological ramifications of raising animals for food, whether directly (eating their carcasses) or indirectly (eating their products), logically, I should avoid all animal products. (That would also include my beloved soft blue cashmere sweater :8-)

My conscience tells me to become vegan. My own animal desires and taste buds say, "Paneer! Gulab jamun! Swiss cheese! Yogurt! Mango lassi!" and, of course, "ICE CREAM!" There are vegan versions of these and they are dreadful! I like tofu properly prepared. I really do. But it only vaguely looks like paneer. The taste, the texture are all wrong. Anyway, I'd be laughed out of Punjabi society if I ever served mattar tofu, I think.

Also I make my own paneer (and use the whey, as well as the curd in cooking), but must buy tofu. I much prefer making my own stuff.

I am not yet Sant Mai. Someday maybe I'll be vegan, but not yet.

:ice: :u):

 

[Randip Singh]

I am one of those hypocritical vegetarians, I suppose. Thinking about it honestly, there are two main reasons I am vegetarian:

1. I object to killing innocent animals to sate my lust for meat, when I can live perfectly well without it.
2. I grew up that way.

Even there I have vegan considerations. For example, if I care about killing the critters, don't I also need to be concerned about how they are treated when alive? The treatment of dairy animals cannot bear close consideration by any compassionate human.

Then, giving a lot of credence to the vegan consideration are the ecological ramifications of raising animals for food, whether directly (eating their carcasses) or indirectly (eating their products), logically, I should avoid all animal products. (That would also include my beloved soft blue cashmere sweater :8-)

My conscience tells me to become vegan. My own animal desires and taste buds say, "Paneer! Gulab jamun! Swiss cheese! Yogurt! Mango lassi!" and, of course, "ICE CREAM!" There are vegan versions of these and they are dreadful! I like tofu properly prepared. I really do. But it only vaguely looks like paneer. The taste, the texture are all wrong. Anyway, I'd be laughed out of Punjabi society if I ever served mattar tofu, I think.

Also I make my own paneer (and use the whey, as well as the curd in cooking), but must buy tofu. I much prefer making my own stuff.

I am not yet Sant Mai. Someday maybe I'll be vegan, but not yet.

:ice: :u):

Mai ji, you are in no way a hypocrit and I tell you why:

• You have chosen not to eat meat because it is because of your conscience (you haven't brought religion into it, exactly as per Bani).
• You understand exactly where milk comes from, and therefore understand the hypocrasy of those who cite themselves as pure vegetarians. I mean what is total purity?
• You are too smart to be a hypocrit