Debate: Spiritual Vs Non Spiritual Interpretation Of Gurbani

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

There have always been "two or three or more" Groups...the Faridkotee Teeka was representative of one Group who would label themselves the "Spiritual interpreters"...the Baba Group, derawadee group, takslais sanatanists vedantists etc etc..then along came Bhai Vir Singh whose teeka (incomplete) was a slight deviation from the faridkotees..Bhai kahn Singh nabah shoe Gurmatt maartand, Mahan Kosh etc works widened the distance between the two groups...Then Manmohan Singh completed his tteka of 8 volumes and the chasm widened further....then came Prof SAHIB SINGH whose monumental SGGS Darpan took the Sikh World by Storm...he was vehemently OPPOSED by the Derawadee sanatinst vedantic fareedkotee teeka sikhs...His GRAMMAR was ridiculed as trying to BIND Gurbani..limit Gurbani etc etc..
BUT the Real Litmus Test came when the INTERNET opened the floodgates.....and the Dsm Granth authenticity, Bhai Gurdass jis 41st vaar, Gurbilas Patshai chhevin, Gurbials Pat dasvein, Bhai mani Singh letters, Hukmanmahs etc etc Bhai Bala janam Sakhi etc etc began to be put to the Gurbani LITMUS TEST and many faults, wantiings, shortcomings came to the fore..

Akal Takhat, Badal Govt Power, Money from SGPC Golucks,Derawadee Golucks, Taksals, etc etc etc etc were pitted against "the other side"...Battle Lines were drawn..and the battle began in earnest..rest is HISTORY...Kala Afghana, Prof darshan Singh, Prof sarabjit Singh Dhundah..whoever was seen as a THREAT to the Vedantic/sanatanist/Fareedkotee version of Sikhs was censored and if adamant then was EXCOMMUNICATED in attempts to SILENCE and destroy....Obviously all these attempts failed miserably..yet the Battle continues...More "politically motivated excommunications have occurred in last two DECADES than in the entire History of Sikhs....
20 Years ago those who ridiculed the Grammar assertions of prof sahib Singh and would pronounce the Aunkarrs and siharees etc EXTRA LOUD..have turned around and began admitting that these are Grammar markers and not to be Pronounced...Sir Shaha ke SHAHOOOOOOOOO is utterly meaningless as the extra loud ooooooo aunkaar under SHAH(u) has a MEANING and is not a SOUND. Taksali studnets too began to QUESTION..whats the menaing of SHAHOOOOOOOOO !! and being unable to answer..these taksali babas began to silently admit Prof sahib Singh Ji ii RIGHT..a GRUDGING admission but an admission no doubt...Those who doubt can buy the Book Gurbani paath darshan by Taksalli Baba and compare it with Prof Sahib Singh to see one is Sun the other is Candle - depending on which "group" one belongs to..the "spiritual" one or the "atheist kala afghana group"..
The Advent of t he Internet and the Information Tsunami has done a lot to spread the LIGHT of Gurbani..dispersed most of the dhunddh intentionally spread by vested interests to safeguard "spirituality" assertions and claims and dismiss the atheists and non beleivers, kafirs communists comrades etc....in actual fact..the real atheists and comrades types are about a s many a s Atteh vich loonn..salt in Flour....

 

[japjisahib04]

There have always been "two or three or more" Groups...the Faridkotee Teeka was representative of one Group who would label themselves the "Spiritual interpreters"...the Baba Group, derawadee group, takslais sanatanists vedantists etc etc..then along came Bhai Vir Singh whose teeka (incomplete) was a slight deviation from the faridkotees.

And the so-called spiritual interpreters! I wonder do they know what is spirituality. To turn ordinary into extra ordinary is spirituality. To see God in all is spirituality. To take along, all with you is spiritulity. As Guru sahib in japjisahib says, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਗੁਣਿ ਗੁਣੁ ਕਰੇ ਗੁਣਵੰਤਿਆ ਗੁਣੁ ਦੇ ॥ to uplift deprived and make them worthy is spiritulity. Gurbani is a universal truth, THUS TO INTERPRET EACH AND EVERY PANTIEES IN WAY THAT IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE IRRESPECTIVE OF GENDER, CASTE AND OR AGE IS SPIRITULITY. Gurbani clearly tells us, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਏਹਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਏਹਾ ਕਰਮਾਤਿ ॥੨॥ to see God in all is spirituality.

I was reading a pankti in the morning, ' ਤੈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੀ ਮੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਖੋਇ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ almost every available teeka, who interpreted this pankties relates this with youth age. And by translating 'ਜੋਬਨੁ ਖੋਇ' - 'losing young age' I don't see any spirituality. I noticed we listen half, understand quarter, think zero and react double thus misses the essence. I came to conclusion guru sahib is referring 'ਜੋਬਨੁ ਖੋਇ' as priority of this life which is emulating the inner voice but our priority is only gathering dollars and pulling the legs. The last line of the sabd also supports of priority, 'ਉਸੁ ਊਪਰਿ ਹੈ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਮੇਰਾ ॥ ਸੇਖ ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪੰਥੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰਿ ਸਵੇਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥ O Shaykh Fareed, think of that priority of emulating divine wisdom, as early as possible to make your life 'amritvela'. The moment we are awaken that velya is prabhat.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

And the so-called spiritual interpreters! I wonder do they know what is spirituality. To turn ordinary into extra ordinary is spirituality. To see God in all is spirituality. To take along, all with you is spiritulity. As Guru sahib in japjisahib says, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਗੁਣਿ ਗੁਣੁ ਕਰੇ ਗੁਣਵੰਤਿਆ ਗੁਣੁ ਦੇ ॥ to uplift deprived and make them worthy is spiritulity. Gurbani is a universal truth, THUS TO INTERPRET EACH AND EVERY PANTIEES IN WAY THAT IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE IRRESPECTIVE OF GENDER, CASTE AND OR AGE IS SPIRITULITY. Gurbani clearly tells us, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਏਹਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਏਹਾ ਕਰਮਾਤਿ ॥੨॥ to see God in all is spirituality.

I was reading a pankti in the morning, ' ਤੈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੀ ਮੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਖੋਇ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ almost every who interpreted this pankties relates this with youth age. And by translating 'ਜੋਬਨੁ ਖੋਇ' - 'losing young age' I don't see any spirituality. I noticed we listen half, understand quarter, think zero and react double thus misses the essence. I came to conclusion guru sahib is referring to priority of this life which is emulating the inner voice but our priority is only gathering dollars.

I have come to the conclusion, those who don't believe in anything beyond the physical will never believe it until they experience it for themselves. Until then, they will only believe what their physical eyes can see, and they will interpret everything in that sense.

Those of us who interpret it as having spiritual meaning beyond the physical, usually already HAVE experienced it... or at least glimpsed it to varying degrees through personal experiences.

Neither one of us will change our views... the skeptic can't see until he is shown, and those who have been shown can not 'unsee'.

Because of my own personal experiences (I am not interpreting anything on blind belief) I interpret Gurbani to have meaning that far surpasses the physical. I don't believe SGGS is merely a psychology book written in cryptic poetry that only a few can understand. There is FAR more to existence than we experience in this physical life and this physical life is not all there is - you don't just cease to exist. So if SGGS accurately describes experiences that some of us have had, that can only be counted as [spiritual] then that is a huge coincidence no?? Unless it was MEANT to!

If it was written as many of you state, for the 'common man' then the meaning should not be so difficult to asertain... but yet the meanings some of you are attributing to things, to me is a far stretch when the [spiritual] meaning to me pops right out in the wording as is....no need to decipher any hidden meaning in metaphors upon metaphors that most would not understand... I mean, ESPECIALLY since those metaphors used are dealing with concepts that people at the time knew, why would it be thought that they could easily substitue some state of mind or psychology for a concept that they knew so well all their lives that was verymuch not simply a state of mind? There would need to be some sort of codex saying that reincarnation = bipolar, this=that etc. I would think... And if you substitue one state of mind for one [spiritual] concept in one shabad... it doesn't seem to work in another shabad. Yet the original concept presented does work in both if you look at it in a spiritual sense... how can you explain that?

How can you explain that those of us who have actually HAD REAL [spiritual] experiences, can easily see them described in SGGS accurately?? It can't be just coincidence... and if you experienced it yourself, you would KNOW what I mean, and you would KNOW that there is more to the world than the physical... without any doubts.

 

[japjisahib04]

And if you substitue one state of mind for one [spiritual] concept in one shabad... it doesn't seem to work in another shabad. Yet the original concept presented does work in both if you look at it in a spiritual sense... how can you explain that?

How can you explain that those of us who have actually HAD REAL [spiritual] experiences, can easily see them described in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji accurately?? It can't be just coincidence... and if you experienced it yourself, you would KNOW what I mean, and you would KNOW that there is more to the world than the physical... without any doubts.

As earlier stated that gurbani is not written to freighten us and in negative sense but in a state of chardhi kala. Thus guru sahib are not referring to wrinkle, grey hair,feeble body but is telling us how to eliminate our miseries.

Further I would be obliged if you can cite any example where as claimed by you that original concept presented does work in both if we look at it in a spirital sense by your thought process.

best regards

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

As earlier stated that gurbani is not written to freighten us and in negative sense but in a state of chardhi kala. Thus guru sahib are not referring to wrinkle, grey hair but is telling us how to eliminate our miseries.

Further I would be obliged if you can cite any example where as claimed by you that original concept presented does work in both if we look at it in a spirital sense by your thought process.

best regards

Can you please show me where it states that references in SGGS to 'grey hair' instead mean 'miseries'? Is there a 'key' or 'codex' somewhere within SGGS that says we are to take references to 'grey hair' and 'aging' to mean instead 'miseries'? Or is that just your personal view and interpretation?

Because in the context of the shabad he posted, it clearly is talking about taking life for granted and only realizing that fact when one is too old. That in itself is using metaphor... and you have somehow pulled even more metaphor out of it that is in no way related to the words... Aging and grey hair have no integral meaning to 'miseries' in any sense of the word... even metaphorical. The metaphorical meaning would be 'regret about wasted time' which is still the meaning as worded... in no way can I find to interpret aging and time passing by to mean simply 'miseries' or a state of mind that causes miseries.

And talking of regret over wasted time, is not to instill fear... It's a positive message - because it's saying that it is NEVER too late. You may be old and grey now, but death has NOT knocked at your door yet, so use what time you have wisely... no matter what age you are. So I do not see it as a message to instill fear at all. But instead it's a celebration of the time we have now, in this human form, while also being made aware that it will someday end, so its telling us to use it wisely... and find [Waheguru Ji] while we have the chance. It's not negative at all!! However, misleading people that they can find [God] when they really just mean a way to not feel miserable. That to me is negative... and its like holding the carrot and then pulling it away with some hidden meaning that is common snese and really doesn't need over 1400 pages for people to know.

The statement about spiritual context working in multiple shabads, was a generalization... but I can find some examples give me a few days... but just as one example... the reference to 'celestial sound currents' 'celestial vibrations' etc. There are those of us who either through meditation or a deeply transformative spiritual experience that happened spontaneously or a traumatic event etc., have eactually HEARD these sounds... in a very real sense...not metaphorically. They are not simply a code word for some working of the mind or some state of mind or harmony with your neighbours. They are very real... And in every instance where they are mentioned, it mentions 'hearing' them or 'listening' to them. It's not referring to a metaphor for a state of mind... everywhere mentioned, the context is that one can HEAR them and LISTEN to them when you contemplate inward. When you are in deep meditation some can actually FEEL these vibrations as well... These vibrations, and sounds, I surmise (and is just my opinion) are related to the fact that the entire workings of the universe are vibrational in nature... right down to the energy that vibrates matter into existence. Some of us have actually heard it by contemplating on the Guru - as instructed in SGGS. So my point is, that when those of us who HAVE experienced the [spiritual] aspect of existence can so easily relate to what is written - as worded, and we have actually had these REAL experiences, then it can not be mere coincidence. And surely you can see how when our eyes have been opened, we can not simply close them and look at SGGS as a psychology book with no deeper meaning...

 

[japjisahib04]

Can you please show me where it states that references in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to 'grey hair' instead mean 'miseries'? Is there a 'key' or 'codex' somewhere within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that says we are to take references to 'grey hair' and 'aging' to mean instead 'miseries'? Or is that just your personal view and interpretation?

Because in the context of the shabad he posted, it clearly is talking about taking life for granted and only realizing that fact when one is too old. That in itself is using metaphor... and you have somehow pulled even more metaphor out of it that is in no way related to the words... Aging and grey hair have no integral meaning to 'miseries' in any sense of the

Akasha Jee

Blessing to you for raising these points.

Let me represent again

ਤੈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੀ ਮੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਖੋਇ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥


Don't you think literal interpretation of 'joban khoey' is a state where the energy is lost with wrinkle on face, feeble body and grey hair. And realizing 'joban khoey' is a state of guilt, that it is too late to repent and regret (aab pachtai kya hot jabh chidiya chug gayee khait) in medical term a state of depression.

Since gurbani is universal truth, thus we need to find universal meaning of it, so that it applies to all ages of people, and not categories gurbani's pankties for old people and young people separately. Thus while looking at the last line of the sabd, ' 'ਉਸੁ ਊਪਰਿ ਹੈ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਮੇਰਾ ॥ ਸੇਖ ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪੰਥੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰਿ ਸਵੇਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥ O Shaykh Fareed, think of that priority of emulating divine wisdom, as early as possible to make your life 'amritvela'. The moment manh is awaken that velya is worth - prabhat, thus meaning of 'joban khoey' is clear now that since my intellect is not able to differentiate between spiritual and material priorties, I am suffering.

Rest I will answer you upon submission of pankties. In the meantime I am enjoying interacting with you, feel free to raise any doubt.

 

[Harry Haller]

Can you please show me where it states that references in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to 'grey hair' instead mean 'miseries'? Is there a 'key' or 'codex' somewhere within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that says we are to take references to 'grey hair' and 'aging' to mean instead 'miseries'? Or is that just your personal view and interpretation?

I have always thought it was his personal view, surely only a {censored} would state anything as fact where EK Onkar is concerned.

Because in the context of the shabad he posted, it clearly is talking about taking life for granted and only realizing that fact when one is too old. That in itself is using metaphor... and you have somehow pulled even more metaphor out of it that is in no way related to the words... Aging and grey hair have no integral meaning to 'miseries' in any sense of the word... even metaphorical. The metaphorical meaning would be 'regret about wasted time' which is still the meaning as worded... in no way can I find to interpret aging and time passing by to mean simply 'miseries' or a state of mind that causes miseries.

I have to confess not reading the original post, however, most people have misery in their life, in some way, and at some time, grey hair often denotes wisdom in the Indian culture, most wisdom comes through suffering, through misery, it would not be impossible to lump misery with grey hair, the older someone is, the more chances they have been miserable.

And talking of regret over wasted time, is not to instill fear... It's a positive message

yes, its a bit like a parent beating a child for its own benefit, the positive message is hard to see at the time, it just feels like fear

because it's saying that it is NEVER too late.

to what? get baptised? meet god? feel his power? I am genuinely curious, what is this feeling that has so many of you by the short and curlies? Is it a feeling, or a state of mind? does it need to be kept up? or once you get it, you have it forever?

But instead it's a celebration of the time we have now, in this human form, while also being made aware that it will someday end, so its telling us to use it wisely... and find [Waheguru Ji] while we have the chance.

again, I am genuinely curious, what does it feel like to find Waheguruji?

The statement about spiritual context working in multiple shabads, was a generalization... but I can find some examples give me a few days... but just as one example... the reference to 'celestial sound currents' 'celestial vibrations' etc. There are those of us who either through meditation or a deeply transformative spiritual experience that happened spontaneously or a traumatic event etc., have eactually HEARD these sounds... in a very real sense...not metaphorically. They are not simply a code word for some working of the mind or some state of mind or harmony with your neighbours. They are very real... And in every instance where they are mentioned, it mentions 'hearing' them or 'listening' to them. It's not referring to a metaphor for a state of mind... everywhere mentioned, the context is that one can HEAR them and LISTEN to them when you contemplate inward. When you are in deep meditation some can actually FEEL these vibrations as well... These vibrations, and sounds, I surmise (and is just my opinion) are related to the fact that the entire workings of the universe are vibrational in nature... right down to the energy that vibrates matter into existence. Some of us have actually heard it by contemplating on the Guru - as instructed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So my point is, that when those of us who HAVE experienced the [spiritual] aspect of existence can so easily relate to what is written - as worded, and we have actually had these REAL experiences, then it can not be mere coincidence. And surely you can see how when our eyes have been opened, we can not simply close them and look at Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a psychology book with no deeper meaning...

and there are those of us that just go about quietly with our life, trying to make a difference, by seeing god in each and everything, I have said it before and I will say it again, this seems all a bit me me me, does a starving child care about the celestial vibrations? Can a starving child learn something from the sggs? can a starving child change their future through actions in line with Creation?

 

[Sherdil]

I'd like to know, what is the end result of feeling these vibrations and listening to the celestial music? Does it give you special powers? Can one see the Matrix (if you get the movie reference)? Or does one conquer the self, thus creating harmony with the world around you? I think the latter is the epitome of destroying Haumai and blending with the Shabadh. To go against the Hukam is to try to change the outside world to suit your inner desires. Sikhi looks at it from the opposite perspective. Change the inner self, to better flow with your surroundings, while maintaining divine focus.

On the concept of chardi kala, I think this varies from person to person. Some are able to go through war and remain in chardi kala. Others wither away at the sight of rain clouds. Therefore, I don't think we should interpret gurbani according our standard of chardi kala. I don't see why that Baba Farid shabadh, with death as the central focus, cannot be viewed in chardi kala. Isn't that the whole point of "Hukam raazi chalna"? Accept what life throws at you, and push forward.

As a final note, I would like to see all members adhere to the rule of posting the entire shabadh with page number. I'm not a mod and cannot enforce this rule, but I think it helps others to benefit from your wisdom. I think that is why we are all here; to learn from each other.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

I'd like to know, what is the end result of feeling these vibrations and listening to the celestial music? Does it give you special powers? Can one see the Matrix (if you get the movie reference)?

Not unless you consider realization that there is much more than the physical, and that you are much more than your physical shell a special power? I don't... however that realization certainly IS powerful!

 

[Sherdil]

Not unless you consider realization that there is much more than the physical, and that you are much more than your physical shell a special power? I don't... however that realization certainly IS powerful!

Okay. What happens after you realize that?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

A Christian neighbour of mine ( reborn/Born AGAIN.. Christian - i mean REBORN in this Life time..not from some other joon/lifetime.. or whatever..and also NOT Born-Again in the sense that he emerged from his mothers womb a second time..sheesh..hard to explain...its simply Born_Again/reborn Christian and his age body etc is the exact same)...REALIZED....and now he BLEEDS from his palms and Ribs as he beleives Jesus was nailed to the Cross by huge nails in his palms..and a Roman Soldier pushed a spear into his rib to check if he was still alive or gone...and He tells me..YES..The REALISATION is POWERFUL....how else could i bleed exactly as Jesus did 2000++ years ago..

Sadly I have yet to come across a SIKH..who can say he is REALIZED..and feel "split apart" as Bhai Mati Dass Ji was...or feel boiled all over like Bhai Dyala Ji was..or scorched all over as Guru Arjun Ji was on the Hot Plate..or Get grilled all voer like Bhai Sati dass was..or Feel his Joints cut like Bhai Mani Singh was...HOWEVER..Sikh History ahs HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of real life Bhai matidasses, satiDasses, Mani Singhs and Bhai Dyalas....who suffered REAL LIFE and Martyred in REAL TIME..just like the real mati dasses and Mani Singhs....

THERE must be a difference...REALISATION...POWERFUL REALISATION..and VIRTUAL "bleeding"...Virtual Martyrdom..verses the REAL LIFE and Real Time Martyrdom of say..Bhai jarnail Singh bhinderawallah..Gen Subegh Singh etc of 1984...and certain Sikhs who were BOILED ALIVE like Bhai Dyala ji...Burned alive..had acid poured into their orifices etc etc....but by Punjab Police and indeed they DIED in Real Life/Real Time...leaving the "Virtual Powerful realisations" to those who enjoy this sort.."high"...but continue to live in real time exactly as they did before the powerful realsiations...I wonder what the USE of that ??? IN local Malay Language this is called "Syok sendiri"..self gratification (spiritual)????

A SIKH is a Cog in the wheel of CHANGE...whatever he realities..whether powerful or powerless..has to CHANGE himself..and the Samaaj...Society around him. If the realisation is "secret" then its self defeating "GURMATT":japosatnamwaheguru::japosatnamwaheguru::japosatnamwaheguru:..somewhat like..I love the WAJA..have 4 different types in my Music room..BUT also realised I ma tune deaf..muisc deaf..tone deaf..and totally ILLETERATE in this filed..But it doesnt stope me from sealing shut my Music Room (sound proofed)..and sitting at my vajas and pumping away..and hitting my Tabla setc..dholkee..saranda..etc etc..I Just have to make sure my "realisation of Music" is kept secret.....its too powerful....birds flying overhead may die from hearing my vaja !!!:japosatnamwaheguru::japosatnamwaheguru::japosatnamwaheguru:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Isher Singh ( or the other one..Nand Singh ) is said to have "powerful realisation" so strong that he could make GURU NANAK emerge from the SGGS and EAT the food placed before IT. ( or HIM if it makes you comfortable).

Imho..I place much more value on the "powerful spiritual realisation" of Bhagat Pooran Singh Pingalwarra vallah..who peddled his bicycle for miles, sold scrap paper and out of the meagre resources...FED a FEW street children found abandoned.

The GURU (Nanak - Guru Gobind Singh) in SGGS has NO NEED of any Food/Water/Warm Blankets etc etc.....BUT the NEEDY ONES in the Pingallwarra do NEED all the food, allt he water..all the warm blankets etc etc to SURVIVE !!! I go with the Powerful realisations of Bhagat Pooran Singh naytime rather than be AWED by the Powerful Spiritual Realisation of Ishar/nand of Nanaksar in having force fed Guru Nanak via their Haath/japp/Tapp/ Whatever !!!

2. Those FED by Pooran Singh are still living today..and the FEEDING at Pingallwarra continues...not so at Nanaksar..where they fight and shoot at each other over the GOLUCKS...Guru Nanak Must be ?????

 

[Luckysingh]

I'd like to know, what is the end result of feeling these vibrations and listening to the celestial music?

Do you really want to know or just poking fun ?
If you really wanted to experience, then you wouldn't ask

Does it give you special powers? Can one see the Matrix (if you get the movie reference)? Or does one conquer the self ?

what is a special power ?......all these powers are special to your ego.
In the inner kingdom of waheguru, there is no ego, so how could a special power be...
...Oh yes, BTW I am very frightened and fearful of kryptonite!..lol

thus creating harmony with the world around you? I think the latter is the epitome of destroying Haumai and blending with the Shabadh.

Blending with the shabad, is when you hear it, focusing your consciousness on it and then letting your mind die in it.

To go against the Hukam is to try to change the outside world to suit your inner desires. Sikhi looks at it from the opposite perspective. ,Change the inner self to better flow with your surroundings, while maintaining divine focus.

That's an agreeable statement, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

Firstly, if your inner desire is to be with ONE and experience Waheguru, then you can NOT possibly be going against HUKAM.
When someone is merged with waheguru, then they are in complete hukam.
Hukam cannot be changed but your freewill can drives and command your ego.

I don't understand how you would ''change your inner self'' without being spiritual.

 

[Sherdil]

Do you really want to know or just poking fun ?
If you really wanted to experience, then you wouldn't ask

I really want to know. What is the end result of hearing this celestial music? What happens?

Why can't I ask this question?

 

[harmanpreet singh]

I really want to know. What is the end result of hearing this celestial music? What happens?

end result ....A feeling :it should not have ended , my fault ,must have hide something from Friend ,then bigger thirst .

 

[Luckysingh]

I really want to know. What is the end result of hearing this celestial music? What happens?

Why can't I ask this question?

What does an apple taste like ?
I really want to know.

Oh yes, what does velvet and fur feel like to stroke ? ....and how would you distinguish ??

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

I really want to know. What is the end result of hearing this celestial music? What happens?

Why can't I ask this question?

How do you know when you are in love? Describe it...

 

[Harry Haller]

How do you know when you are in love? Describe it...

your doing this wrong, your supposed to be selling this to us...

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

your doing this wrong, your supposed to be selling this to us...

I am done selling... I was never a good sales person.

I have come to the conclusion, that some people live in a box. They don't know anything outside of that box, so to them, the box is all there is, and they are perfectly happy living in the box and never wondering what's beyond the lid, no matter what others might say to try to explain to them that there is much more to existence than the box. Others, like myself, have noticed a crack in the lid, and have seen outside the box. We have seen what lies beyond the box...and we can never forget what we saw when peeping through the crack in the lid, and so we can never go back to just living in a box.

See the dilemma??

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I am done selling... I was never a good sales person.

I have come to the conclusion, that some people live in a box. They don't know anything outside of that box, so to them, the box is all there is, and they are perfectly happy living in the box and never wondering what's beyond the lid, no matter what others might say to try to explain to them that there is much more to existence than the box. Others, like myself, have noticed a crack in the lid, and have seen outside the box. We have seen what lies beyond the box...and we can never forget what we saw when peeping through the crack in the lid, and so we can never go back to just living in a box.

See the dilemma??

Akasha ji,

Guru Fateh.

It is interesting to notice that you call others living in a box except you. You have been judging others all over this thread and when asked for the specifics several times by me about your accusations where you posted the names of some of us, you have denied anything of that sort.

Come to think of it, according to your own definition earlier, the " two groups" are living in a box. I am sorry to say, it is a bit arrogant on your part to put others in a box. It shows you have some kind of complex. You decide which one. I have been quietly watching this go on and this is leading nowhere. You continue with subtle jabs and name callings. Is this what you call is your Spiritual path?

Regarding your question about being in love, please read my very first post in this thread when you started it. It is a personal thing.Everyone has a different meaning/feeling of/for love and the same goes for the path of Sikhi. You are the one who is putting yourself in the "Love Box" in which you have admitted you are in, yet you accuse others of being in some kind of other box.

A Hatred Box?

Which is it Akasha ji?

You may call your path Spiritual and no one is accusing you of anything which is contrary in your case because you have labelled others including myself but I myself have no problem with it. And please do not degrade others who use a different terminology which you have coined for them as only the Physical one quite often.

It is demeaning to whichever path you are seeking.

It is a dilemma indeed for you, not for anyone else. This is the reason why you have declared not to take Amrit and leave the Sikhi Path. No one has forced you to be on this path and no one is pushing you out of it except yourself and please be brave enough to admit it rather than pointing fingers at others.

Regards

Tejwant Singh