Debate: Spiritual Vs Non Spiritual Interpretation Of Gurbani

[Ambarsaria]

since when did I transform from class clown/heretic/fat bald idiot/comic relief to some sort of authority figure?

Akashaji, I have my opinions, you have yours, we debate them, I may not agree with you, you may not agree with me, I concede I can be sarcastic and possibly even seem to be aggressive, its all comic relief, its just gallows humour, I am sorry if you found it offensive, the thought that it may influence your amrit is terrible,

I do not pray, I have not been to a Gurdwara in years, all I know is what I feel, just like you, I am no expert, What I feel is for madmen only.

just to clarify

Harry brother, sorry to be off-topic but I could not resist the following that just occurred to me as phraseology,

Arrows released out of a bow don't come back, next time try a boomerang.

loleacesign:
​

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[kggr001]

What will happen to me when I die? Does my soul immediately lock stock and barrel enter another life form body?

I've no answer to the question, I personally don't really care how the process works, Sikhi doesn't believe that this is it and when we die we are dust and thats all.

It does warn us against complacency and wastage of time for sure. For me find the lord/creator is knowing as much as we possibly can as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also tells that we are not capable of knowing all. What is your level or target to declare that you found the lord because I think I already have?

I can only say whatever I found the lord or not, if I would compare myself with Guru's and Bhagats states described through whole Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It's a state where you see the lord in each and everything. A state where you are one with the lord, A state where one can't tell difference between that person and lord. I'm no where close to attaining that state. A state where you see/make no difference in iron and gold.

We are already part of creator and creation the only part Sikhi for me teaches us is to understand this and in practical terms. For me merging is understanding what is your definition of merging?

For me the definition of merging is being one with the lord, I know that we are already part of the creation which means we are already in a way merged with the lord. However we should immerse our mind in lord, like the fish in the water. The lord is already in us, the question we need to ask ourselfs is that if our mind also immersed in god like how god is merged in us.

 

[Ambarsaria]

kggr001 ji we are too close for comfort on many understandings :sippingcoffeemunda:

I've no answer to the question, I personally don't really care how the process works, Sikhi doesn't believe that this is it and when we die we are dust and thats all.

Regarding the above comment nothing reminds me of us before birth or after death like when I consider the following question,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is Guru Nanak Dev ji dead or alive today
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My answer is he is more alive than dead. If we gather all parts of him in all Sikhs or others that he impacted and put these together, it would be Guru Nanak magnificently multiplied in so many souls.

For me this is re-incarnation as you spiritually (your spirits, your soul or parts of ) forever live in many as many live in you. By the way it is not limited to human to human as if you looked in the eyes of a bird, a dog or a cat, you will soon see your soul connecting to other forms.

So for Sikhs the challenge out of all the teachings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is to try to emulate the principles therein, recognize the lives of those who wrote and be like them or take leaves out of their lives so that after we leave the physical body our soul continues to grow in dimension through others.


Sat Sri Akal and good interacting with you.
​

 

[kggr001]

Wonderfull post Ambarsaria ji,

Thats one way of seeing reincarnation, what I meant in the previous post was the other reincarnation the one that we die and get born again till one ends the cycle.

I do believe that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji talks about it and accepts it.

The reincarnation you are talking about is in my eyes just more like "Leaving Wisdom/knowledge" behind, The same thing also applies to person who invented Algebra he is also pretty much alive and same goes for Albert Einstein/Newton/etc.. You can call it reincarnation since in a way it is.

 

[Sherdil]

For some reason, under the "Active Discussions" tab, a thread featuring our late Narayanjot Kaur popped up. It said that she had made a post yesterday. Perplexed, I clicked it and was shown that the last post was made several years ago. I ventured onto her blog and found this poem. Talk about having a spiritual experience! Lol. It's relevant to this heated discussion.

Through endless ages, the mind has never changed
It has not lived or died, come or gone, gained or lost.
It isn’t pure or tainted, good or bad, past or future.
true or false, male or female. It isn’t reserved for
monks or lay people, elders to youths, masters or
idiots, the enlightened or unenlightened.
It isn’t bound by cause and effect and doesn’t
struggle for liberation. Like space, it has no form.
You can’t own it and you can’t lose it. Mountains.
rivers or walls can’t impede it. But this mind is
ineffable and difficult to experience. It is not the
mind of the senses. So many are looking for this
mind, yet it already animates their bodies.
It is theirs, yet they don’t realize it.

 

[Admin]

For some reason, under the "Active Discussions" tab, a thread featuring our late Narayanjot Kaur popped up. It said that she had made a post yesterday. Perplexed, I clicked it and was shown that the last post was made several years ago. I ventured onto her blog and found this poem. Talk about having a spiritual experience! Lol. It's relevant to this heated discussion.

It was an old discussion on Shaheed Udham Singh, bumped, to mark the day his hanging on July 31, 1940.

 

[mandemeet]

Let me sum it up with quote from gurbani once for all. Gurbani jivan mukta is ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹੁ ਮਰਹੁ ਫੁਨਿ ਜੀਵਹੁ ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ over here it is referring to 'no rebirth of evil deeds, destructive thoughts' whereas as I can see in advaita philosophy it is rebirth of physical body. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.1103. As gurbani tells, ' ਭਏ ਅਨੰਦ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਿ ਅਬ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਕਤ ਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ p.302 once I am in bliss now my mind does not think of superfluous deeds.

Japjisahib004ji,

Have you read on 503 this verse?

ਮਨਿ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਨ ਕਾਲਾ ॥੪॥
Man bīcẖār ek liv lāgī punrap janam na kālā. ||4||

Now with ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ there is another word ਨ ਕਾਲਾ ( no death) that cannot be attached to destructive thought, can it be? How long you can keep distorting a fact well expressed in the Gurbani and claim to fix it once for all?

if ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ is rebirth of destructive thoughts, what we will do with ਗਰਭ /garbh/mother’s womb? Add to it, ਗਰਭ has come with ਫਿਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁੜਿ, which means again. Also the words like ਜੋਨਿ ਦੁਖ/ Why Garbhjoon is called ਦੁਖ pain? Don’t you think it is celebrated by the entire world?

Then ਗਰਭਿ ਨ ਲੇਟਿਆ/ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਗਰਭੈ ਪਰਨਾ cannot be distorted. Here are a few examples especially the last verse conclusive on rebirth

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥
Ka▫ī janam garabẖ hir kẖari▫ā.(176)

ਢੇਰੀ ਜਾਮੈ ਜਮਿ ਮਰੈ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਦੁਖ ਪਾਇ ॥
Dẖerī jāmai jam marai garabẖ jon ḏukẖ pā▫e.(256)

ਸੋ ਨਰੁ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਨਹੀ ਆਵੈ ॥੪॥
So nar garabẖ jon nahī āvai. ||4|| (414)

ਪਾਇਆ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਥਾਨੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਗਰਭਿ ਨ ਲੇਟਿਆ ॥
Pā▫i▫ā nihcẖal thān fir garabẖ na leti▫ā.(520)

ਬਿਗਸੈ ਮਨੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਗਾਸਾ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਗਰਭੈ ਪਰਨਾ ॥੧॥
Bigsai man hovai pargāsā bahur na garbẖai parnā. ||1||(531)

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬੰਧਨ ਤੋੜਿ ਨਿਰਾਰੇ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਗਰਭ ਮਝਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ॥
Saṯgur banḏẖan ṯoṛ nirāre bahuṛ na garabẖ majẖārī jī▫o.(598)

ਜੰਮਣੁ ਮਰਣੁ ਸਿਰ ਊਪਰਿ ਊਭਉ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥੨॥
Jamaṇ maraṇ sir ūpar ūbẖa▫o garabẖ jon ḏukẖ pā▫e. ||2||(604)

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਨਿ ਗਹੀ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਫਿਰਿ ਗਰਭ ਨ ਧੁਖੁ ॥੨॥੧੦॥੨੯॥
Nānak saran gahī sukẖ sāgar janam maran fir garabẖ na ḏẖukẖ. ||2||10||29||(717)

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੋਰਚਾ ਗੁਰਿ ਲਾਹਿਓ ਤਹ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਕਹ ਆਵੈ ॥੪॥੧॥
Kaho Nānak morcẖā gur lāhi▫o ṯah garabẖ jon kah āvai. ||4||1||(978)

ਅਕਥੁ ਕਥੈ ਦੇਖੈ ਅਪਰੰਪਰੁ ਫੁਨਿ ਗਰਭਿ ਨ ਜੋਨੀ ਜਾਇਆ ॥੪॥
Akath kathai ḏekẖai aprampar fun garabẖ na jonī jā▫i▫ā. ||4||(1040)

I can keep posting the Gurbani verses about it, because “rebirth is overwhelmingly referred in the Gurbani. It is silly to come up with one’s own thoughts by ignoring so clear-cut expressions in the name of metaphors. What it has to do with “advaita philosophy” anyway gentleman? It is that simple, read it, see the context and the meaning of the words in that context. Then we don’t need to attach the clear words to destructive thoughts etc, because if we do, we will find the same idea expressed in other way.The Truth is never new or old. It was there before Guru Nanak and it is still today, but Guru Nanak has shared “Truth” with the common people contrary to those who couldn't share so openly with the common masses; consequently, some started making trade out of it by writing their own thoughts in a selective language, because they missed the fact that the Truth cannot be hidden. Today, they may claim that they found the truth first ( so called Vedanta philosophy), but how will they get rid of that stuff that belittle the human beings expressed in detail in their scriptures? Guru Granth Sahib stands against that filth. How can the Truth and Simiritis-filth can be promoted together? The Gurbani is written for all, for a layman and the intellectuals by honoring them to be part of that Truth (no one is high and no one is low) and to become able to become one with them. It was a revolution of freedom from bonds of rituals and rites. A bond-mind cannot realize “Truth”. In the Gurbani, repeatedly the seeker is advised to follow only that one (the Guru), who has realized the Truth/ Satt/Ekankaar/ the Creator and to avoid embracing cleverish and haughty knowledge as in the case of Brahmins. Advaita guys who claim to introduce truth first are ignorant. The Gurbani clearly says that search such a Guru who has realized the truth (30) not the talker, who talks about “ I Am that” but never let the seekers to go free from rituals and rites.

Akasha Bhainji!

You were doing fine. What you are saying is said in Sri Guru Granth Sahib repeatedly. Unfortunately some Sikhs are stuck with Miri only and do not realize that without Piri, Miri is useless; nonetheless, a few gentlemen on this site grasped exactly the way you have. Don’t you see the entire world is into physical aspect? The Gurbani perfectly leads to Spirituality. You walked on a path that will lead you to your goal if you remain determined; some are trying, some are struggling and a few are enjoying that bliss. Table talk is based on one’s thoughts influenced by others but the Gurbani is based on pure, personal, and original experience. Guru Nanak concludes on 1412


ਸਭਨੀ ਘਟੀ ਸਹੁ ਵਸੈ ਸਹ ਬਿਨੁ ਘਟੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Sabẖnī gẖatī saho vasai sah bin gẖat na ko▫e.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਸੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੯॥
Nānak ṯe sohāgaṇī jinĥā gurmukẖ pargat ho▫e. ||19||

The Master abides in all bodies; there is none without the Master. Oh Nanak! Only those are fortunate brides within whom the Master becomes manifest through the Guru.

Every Sikh is supposed to realize the Guru’s given fact. Physical aspect is being lived by all regardless their religions; it is the Sikhi only that stresses more on Peeri than on Meeri so that the seeker can learn to be one with the Truth. Please keep your journey without letting anyone influence you but the Gurbani.

My special thanks to Chaz Singh, Lucky Singh, kggr001, Harmanpreet Singh and Akashaji for letting the SPNERs know that truth in the Gurbani is not hidden in metaphors only. My regards to all those who may be in disagreement with me on this site; I will not question your stand. If you feel what you are because of the Gurbani, I respect that. If you ever think, you may be influenced by others more than the Gurbani, please try to see the Gurbani in that prospect. Just sharing that I also respect the views of those who totally don’t believe in the Creator as I do very passionately.
Sincerely
mandemmet

 

[Luckysingh]

Lucky Ji,
You believe that simply because a term appears in the Gurbani, it means Guru Sahib endorsed it. Gurbani is beautiful poetry, if you translate poetry into black and blue, it is not going to lead you to the spirit of that poetry. I hope you understand that.

Guru Sahib endorses GURMAT only. If there was some gurmat in some mythological tale, then this message of gurmat is endorsed.
But you are arguing, that if we pay attention to understand some myth, tale, persons.. then we are immediately wearing vedic specs.!!!!!
The bhagats bani is used in same way where message of gurmat is present... What is your Farid argument about ?

........ By your theory, Malikil-Maut should also exist, robbing people of their lives as decreed by Allah.......................
...............drive hometheir own message. The same is the case with the then widely used terms like Mukti, Maya, Brahm etc. The most important thing is the big picture, not the linguists or mythology

By your theory, if any reference is made in some context, then you immediately class it is as NOT SIKHI.
Such that ANYTHING mentioned in other scriptures that may also be in gurbani.. like reincarnation, mukti, maya, brahma and brahm clarification, soul, after-life, realms, lok, yugas..etc... is immediately rejected, simply because it is in other text.

Doesn't this make you atheist ?

By looking through 'Vedic specs' I mean distorting the meaning of Shabads such as these to suit one's own needs.
I am not looking to segregate anyone, perhaps you just assumed that, and you should not.

Show me how the distortion happens by understanding history and relevance ?
You seem to be the one distorting it as proof of non-sikhi...

It's to suit your own ''be all and end all'' version of sikhi created by missionary mindset.

 

[Luckysingh]

Let me sum it up with quote from gurbani once for all. Gurbani jivan mukta is ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹੁ ਮਰਹੁ ਫੁਨਿ ਜੀਵਹੁ ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ over here it is referring to 'no rebirth of evil deeds, destructive thoughts' whereas as I can see in advaita philosophy it is rebirth of physical body. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.1103. As gurbani tells, ' ਭਏ ਅਨੰਦ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਿ ਅਬ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਕਤ ਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ p.302 once I am in bliss now my mind does not think of superfluous deeds.

A polite response to your above post would be ...Absolute Nonsense!


You have absolutely disregarded the fact that Kabirji in above reference is talking about ''to die in the shabad'' This dying is repeated and repeated....it's a death where you are NOT reborn...
Obviously, you have no idea of how one can achieve this.......

 

[Harry Haller]

I have now realised the difference between us all, some of us need a carrot!

 

[japjisahib04]

Japjisahib004ji,

Have you read on 503 this verse?

ਮਨਿ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਨ ਕਾਲਾ ॥੪॥
Man bīcẖār ek liv lāgī punrap janam na kālā. ||4||

Now with ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ there is another word ਨ ਕਾਲਾ ( no death) that cannot be attached to destructive thought, can it be? How long you can keep distorting a fact well expressed in the Gurbani and claim to fix it once for all?

if ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ is rebirth of destructive thoughts, what we will do with ਗਰਭ /garbh/mother’s womb? Add to it, ਗਰਭ has come with ਫਿਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁੜਿ, which means again. Also the words like ਜੋਨਿ ਦੁਖ/ Why Garbh joon is called ਦੁਖ pain? Don’t you think it is celebrated by the entire world?

Then ਗਰਭਿ ਨ ਲੇਟਿਆ/ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਗਰਭੈ ਪਰਨਾ cannot be distorted. Here are a few examples especially the last verse conclusive on rebirth.

Sardar Sahib

My humble request kindly read the rahao which is the central idea of the sabd, before you criticize or waste other's time in questioning.

What is gharab? Gurbani tells us, 'ਮਾਇਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਕਾ ਤਿਹ ਤਜਿ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਵਉ ॥੩॥ and what is 'maya'? 'ਏਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਉਪਜੈ ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ what distance us (manmat)from God is maya and this is gharab juene.

When guru sahib says, 'ਏਕ ਬੂੰਦ ਗੁਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਦੀਨੋ ਤਾ ਅਟਲੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਨ ਮੁਆ ॥ which rebirth gurbani is telling,- mandai kama wala? Guru sahib is not telling that since you have given me birth, now I will do something(through rituals or dying in sabd) that you will not be able to make blunder again to give me rebirth. Why anything wrong with this birth? It is all about manh.

Permit me to put it up from another angle, despite all our efforts, if, 'ਕਬਹੂ ਜੀਅੜਾ ਊਭਿ ਚੜਤੁ ਹੈ ਕਬਹੂ ਜਾਇ ਪਇਆਲੇ ॥ when manh is 24 hour hyper and not getting stable, this sorrow and disturbed state of mind is called aavan javan, this state of mind is called jamna marna but, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਬਧਾ ਘਰੁ ਤਹਾਂ ਜਿਥੈ ਮਿਰਤੁ ਨ ਜਨਮੁ ਜਰਾ ॥ guru nanak has tied/imbued his manh with a home where there is no death/birth and no old age, means when there is no rebirth naturally he will not die again. As gurbani says, 'ਪਰ ਧਨ ਪਰ ਤਨ ਪਰ ਤੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਰ ਅਪਬਾਦੁ ਨ ਛੂਟੈ ॥ ਆਵਾ ਗਵਨੁ ਹੋਤੁ ਹੈ ਫੁਨਿ ਫੁਨਿ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਤੂਟੈ ॥੨॥ so long as I eye on others wealth, others fight, beauty and slandering, cycle of this disturbed state of mind (pal pal janma marna will never end). Once I understand this laws of nature and implement, I will never get disturbed.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

I have now realised the difference between us all, some of us need a carrot!

The thing is... Some of us HAVE been given the carrot! And the more we look to the spiritual, the closer the carrot gets!

 

[kggr001]

First of all I want to thank japjisahib04 ji for sharing his wonderfull understanding of reincarnation. The way you interpret reincarnation is wonderfull. I tried to compare some verses from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji about reincarnation with your understanding. for me it was more usefull to use reincarnation to the way you described then using it as physical death and physical birth.

I believe that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does talk about two kind of reincarnations, one about reincarnation of the mind, other is about physical birth, death.

The first one in my opinion should help one more in the journey to find lord, the second one is there more as reminder that we shouldn't waste time since it's limited.

The shabad below can be interpretted in two ways, for me it comes more over as they are talking about reincarnation in the way that you get born again.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1238

ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ महला १ ॥
Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl:

ਜੁੜਿ ਜੁੜਿ ਵਿਛੁੜੇ ਵਿਛੁੜਿ ਜੁੜੇ ॥ जुड़ि जुड़ि विछुड़े विछुड़ि जुड़े ॥
Juṛ juṛ vicẖẖuṛe vicẖẖuṛ juṛe.
United, the united separate, and separated, they unite again.

ਜੀਵਿ ਜੀਵਿ ਮੁਏ ਮੁਏ ਜੀਵੇ ॥ जीवि जीवि मुए मुए जीवे ॥
Jīv jīv mu▫e mu▫e jīve.
Living, the living die, and dying, they live again.

ਕੇਤਿਆ ਕੇ ਬਾਪ ਕੇਤਿਆ ਕੇ ਬੇਟੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਗੁਰ ਚੇਲੇ ਹੂਏ ॥ केतिआ के बाप केतिआ के बेटे केते गुर चेले हूए ॥
Keṯi▫ā ke bāp keṯi▫ā ke bete keṯe gur cẖele hū▫e.
They become the fathers of many, and the sons of many; they become the gurus of many, and the disciples.

ਆਗੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਕਿਆ ਜਾਤੀ ਕਿਆ ਹੁਣਿ ਹੂਏ ॥ आगै पाछै गणत न आवै किआ जाती किआ हुणि हूए ॥
Āgai pācẖẖai gaṇaṯ na āvai ki▫ā jāṯī ki▫ā huṇ hū▫e.
No account can be made of the future or the past; who knows what shall be, or what was?

ਸਭੁ ਕਰਣਾ ਕਿਰਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੇ ਕਰੇ ॥ सभु करणा किरतु करि लिखीऐ करि करि करता करे करे ॥
Sabẖ karṇā kiraṯ kar likī▫ai kar kar karṯā kare kare.
All the actions and events of the past are recorded; the Doer did, He does, and He will do.

ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਮਰੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤਰੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ॥੨॥ मनमुखि मरीऐ गुरमुखि तरीऐ नानक नदरी नदरि करे ॥२॥
Manmukẖ marī▫ai gurmukẖ ṯarī▫ai Nānak naḏrī naḏar kare. ||2||
The self-willed manmukh dies, while the Gurmukh is saved; O Nanak, the Gracious Lord bestows His Glance of Grace. ||2||

 

[Tejwant Singh]

kggr01 ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

The first one in my opinion should help one more in the journey to find lord, the second one is there more as reminder that we shouldn't waste time since it's limited.

Does the lord you 'worship' MIA that you have to find him/her /it? I am a bit puzzled by that.

Is your lord a deity of some sort because only the deities play hide n seek?

Would you be kind enough to elaborate that?

According to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent and hence can never be missing.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Mandemeet ji,

Guru Fateh.

One request to all.

Please do not copy and paste one liners which can be misleading without the whole shabad and hence, one liners become weapons to prove one's point rather than interacting for learning through Sadh Sangat which is our main goal here.

So, I would request you to start a new thread under the following thread with your personal understanding, not just the literal translation which is on the net, so we can all share our own and learn from each other.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/

Please start one Shabad at a time. You may start the first one on page 503 whose one verse from the middle you used in your discussion with JapJi. Also, please share us what your understanding of the Rahao verse is in the Shabad and also in general.

You write:

Have you read on 503 this verse?

ਮਨਿ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਨ ਕਾਲਾ ॥੪॥
Man bīcẖār ek liv lāgī punrap janam na kālā. ||4||

Now with ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮੁ there is another word ਨ ਕਾਲਾ ( no death) that cannot be attached to destructive thought, can it be? How long you can keep distorting a fact well expressed in the Gurbani and claim to fix it once for all?

No one is distorting Gurbani here. We all disagree with our interpretation and of the other members' all the times. Disagreements are part of the learning process, which I am sure you must be aware of. Sikhi is all about learning, unlearning and relearning with every breath we take. This is the unique beauty of Sikhi thanks to our visionary Gurus who did not give us the interpretation of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on a platter.

Let's be civil to each other so we can create the learning process among the cyber sangat.

I am looking forward to learning from your understanding of the Shabad on page 503 of which you just posted a verse of, and then we can carry on with the others.


Thanks & regards.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Knowing there was at times heated discussion in this thread. It should occur to us how we should conduct. One of the best reflections of Guru Nanak Dev ji's mindset in dealing with debate is given brilliantly in Sidh Gosht. I extract a bit below where Italics blue is my understanding,http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=੧

[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%80"]ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਸਿਧ [/URL]ਗੋਸਟਿ
Rāmkalī mėhlā 1 siḏẖ gosat
Raag Ramkali, Guru Nanak Dev ji Sidh Gosht

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One creator so received through the blessing of a true Guru

ਸਿਧ ਸਭਾ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਠੇ ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਜੈਕਾਰੋ ॥ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਸਾਚਾ ਅਪਰ ਅਪਾਰੋ ॥
Siḏẖ sabẖā kar āsaṇ baiṯẖe sanṯ sabẖā jaikāro. Ŧis āgai rahrās hamārī sācẖā apar apāro.
Gathering of the true in composure, shouting glory to the gathering of the pious. Our prayer to those, where the true, infinite and confirmed creator so resides

ਮਸਤਕੁ ਕਾਟਿ ਧਰੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਆਗੈ ਦੇਉ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਚੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਹਜ ਭਾਇ ਜਸੁ ਲੇਉ ॥੧॥
Masṯak kāt ḏẖarī ṯis āgai ṯan man āgai ḏe▫o. Nānak sanṯ milai sacẖ pā▫ī▫ai sahj bẖā▫e jas le▫o. ||1||
I so offer my head, my body and mind to such. Nanak meeting the pious one gets the truth in such an unperturbed simple gift in rendition

ਕਿਆ ਭਵੀਐ ਸਚਿ ਸੂਚਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Ki▫ā bẖavī▫ai sacẖ sūcẖā ho▫e. Sācẖ sabaḏ bin mukaṯ na ko▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Why so wander, the true is so received in contemplation. There is no salvation absent the true understanding.

ਕਵਨ ਤੁਮੇ ਕਿਆ ਨਾਉ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਕਉਨੁ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਸੁਆਓ ॥ ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹਉ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਹਉ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਓ ॥
Kavan ṯume ki▫ā nā▫o ṯumārā ka▫un mārag ka▫un su▫ā▫o. Sācẖ kaha▫o arḏās hamārī ha▫o sanṯ janā bal jā▫o.
Who are you? What is your name? What path? What purpose? My prayer to the eternal truth, and so joyously regarding the pious

ਕਹ ਬੈਸਹੁ ਕਹ ਰਹੀਐ ਬਾਲੇ ਕਹ ਆਵਹੁ ਕਹ ਜਾਹੋ ॥ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੈ ਸੁਣਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਕਿਆ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਰਾਹੋ ॥੨॥
Kah baishu kah rahī▫ai bāle kah āvhu kah jāho. Nānak bolai suṇ bairāgī ki▫ā ṯumārā rāho. ||2||
Child where you find peace where you live? Where you come from and go to? Nanak says listen, renunciates ask what is your path?

ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਚਾਲਹਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਾਏ ॥ ਸਹਜੇ ਆਏ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਿਧਾਏ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਦਾ ਰਜਾਏ ॥
Gẖat gẖat bais niranṯar rahī▫ai cẖālėh saṯgur bẖā▫e. Sėhje ā▫e hukam siḏẖā▫e Nānak saḏā rajā▫e.
In all bodies the sublime so present; so proceeding as the true creator likes.; So calmly arrived; walking per direction; living in the will of such; Me Nanak

ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸਣਿ ਥਿਰੁ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਐਸੀ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਸਚੇ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਏ ॥੩॥
Āsaṇ baisaṇ thir nārā▫iṇ aisī gurmaṯ pā▫e. Gurmukẖ būjẖai āp pacẖẖāṇai sacẖe sacẖ samā▫e. ||3||
The permanent immovable is the creator; Such is the creator’s wisdom received. The one linked to the creator recognizes by self and merges with the true one.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sidh-gosht/38738-si-gosht-sabad-1-16-73-a.html

It puts me to shame many times in reflection. Does it do so to anyone else!

Thanks,

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[kggr001]

kggr01 ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:



Does the lord you 'worship' MIA that you have to find him/her /it? I am a bit puzzled by that.

Is your lord a deity of some sort because only the deities play hide n seek?

Would you be kind enough to elaborate that?

According to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent and hence can never be missing.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

I do believe the lord resides already in me. However I fail to reconize him. I fail to see god in each and everything. I fail to see what guru's and bhagats saw.

So yes the lord is missing for me even though he is already there. I fail to reconize him.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

kggr01 ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:



Does the lord you 'worship' MIA that you have to find him/her /it? I am a bit puzzled by that.

Is your lord a deity of some sort because only the deities play hide n seek?

Would you be kind enough to elaborate that?

According to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent and hence can never be missing.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

THIS!!!! We agree on...

The reason Waheguru Ji is always present is because in reality all there is is the ONE

By 'finding' it simply means to remember that fact... Not a deity as a bearded guy sitting on a cloud but ONE universal CONSCIOUSNESS without form but through which ALL forms manifest.

...when one becomes Gurmukh and realizes HE IS ME what more is there to know? (Paraphrased because I'm on my iPhone) and ones intuitive consciousness merges with the Intuitive consciousness... Merging simply means remembering that there is only ONE and will ever only be ONE even though we have locked ourselves into this physical form and have forgotten that fact.

 

[Ambarsaria]

I do believe the lord resides already in me. However I fail to reconize him. I fail to see god in each and everything. I fail to see what guru's and bhagats saw.

So yes the lord is missing for me even though he is already there. I fail to reconize him.

Recognition of what you have stated that you have not fully recognized is Mukti/rapture/union/merging for me.

Once one recognizes one loses fear of dying, loses animosity, loses jealousy, and so on and gains tranquility and peace that you cannot buy for a billion dollars or euros or 60 billion rupees lol

For Sikhs and other who reach out to SGGS, the Guru ji give free/no-charge/gratis practical coaching and guidance that so many could not buy with money.

Let the rich of the world suffer and the tranquil man in torn canopy cover living by the Ganges enjoy.

kggr001 ji in the following Shabad Guru Amardas Ji are talking to your quest,

Mėhlā 3.

Third Mehl:

ਤੀਜੀ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ।
मः ३ ॥
xxx
xxx


ਏ ਮਨ ਐਸਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਲਹੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੇਵਿਐ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਾਇ ॥

ए मन ऐसा सतिगुरु खोजि लहु जितु सेविऐ जनम मरण दुखु जाइ ॥

Ė man aisā saṯgur kẖoj lahu jiṯ sevi▫ai janam maraṇ ḏukẖ jā▫e.

O mind, search for such a True Guru, by serving whom the pains of birth and death are dispelled.

ਹੇ ਇਨਸਾਨ! ਤੂੰ ਐਹੋ ਜੇਹੇ ਸੱਚੇ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭਾਲ ਲੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਘਾਲ ਕਮਾਉਣ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਜੰਮਣ ਤੇ ਮਰਨ ਦੀ ਪੀੜ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ।

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ = ਜੰਮਣ ਤੋਂ ਮਰਨ ਤਕ ਦਾ।
ਹੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ! ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਖੋਜ ਕੇ ਲੱਭ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕੀਤਿਆਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਸਾਰੀ ਉਮਰ ਦਾ ਦੁਖ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਜਾਏ,


ਸਹਸਾ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਹਉਮੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਜਲਾਇ ॥

सहसा मूलि न होवई हउमै सबदि जलाइ ॥

Sahsā mūl na hova▫ī ha▫umai sabaḏ jalā▫e.

Doubt shall never afflict you, and your ego shall be burnt away through the Word of the Shabad.

ਤਦ ਸੰਦੇਹ (ਭਰਮ) ਤੈਨੂੰ ਕਦੇ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਵਾਪਰੇਗਾ ਅਤੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਹੰਗਤਾ ਨਾਲ ਦੇ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਸੜ ਜਾਵੇਗੀ ਅਤੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਹੰਗਤਾ ਨਾਮ ਦੇ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਸੜ ਜਾਵੇਗੀ।

ਸਹਸਾ = ਤੌਖ਼ਲਾ। ਮੂਲਿ = ਕਦੇ ਭੀ।
ਕਦੇ ਉੱਕਾ ਹੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਨਾ ਹੋਵੇ ਤੇ (ਉਸ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ) ਸ਼ਬਦ ਨਾਲ ਤੇਰੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਸੜ ਜਾਏ,


ਕੂੜੈ ਕੀ ਪਾਲਿ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਨਿਕਲੈ ਸਚੁ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥

कूड़ै की पालि विचहु निकलै सचु वसै मनि आइ ॥

Kūrhai kī pāl vicẖahu niklai sacẖ vasai man ā▫e.

The veil of falsehood shall be torn down from within you, and Truth shall come to dwell in the mind.

ਝੂਠ ਦਾ ਪੜਦਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ ਪਾਟ ਜਾਵੇਗਾ ਅਤੇ ਸੱਚ ਆ ਕੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਅੰਤਰ ਆਤਮੇ ਟਿਕ ਜਾਵੇਗਾ।

ਪਾਲਿ = ਕੰਧ। ਮਨਿ = ਮਨ ਵਿਚ।
ਤੇਰੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ ਕੂੜ ਦੀ ਕੰਧ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਜਾਏ ਤੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਸੱਚਾ ਹਰੀ ਆ ਵੱਸੇ,


ਅੰਤਰਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਸਚ ਸੰਜਮਿ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਇ ॥

अंतरि सांति मनि सुखु होइ सच संजमि कार कमाइ ॥

Anṯar sāʼnṯ man sukẖ ho▫e sacẖ sanjam kār kamā▫e.

Peace and happiness shall fill your mind deep within, if you act according to truth and self-discipline.

ਸੱਚ ਦੇ ਨਿਯਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਉਣ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਤੇਰੇ ਚਿੱਤ ਅੰਦਰ ਠੰਢ ਚੈਨ ਤੇ ਆਰਾਮ ਆਵੇਗਾ।

ਸੰਜਮਿ = ਜੁਗਤਿ ਨਾਲ।
ਅਤੇ ਹੇ ਮਨ! (ਉਸ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਦੱਸੇ ਹੋਏ) ਸੰਜਮ ਵਿਚ ਸੱਚੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਸ਼ਾਂਤੀ ਤੇ ਸੁਖ ਹੋ ਜਾਏ।


ਨਾਨਕ ਪੂਰੈ ਕਰਮਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੨॥

नानक पूरै करमि सतिगुरु मिलै हरि जीउ किरपा करे रजाइ ॥२॥

Nānak pūrai karam saṯgur milai har jī▫o kirpā kare rajā▫e. ||2||

O Nanak, by perfect good karma, you shall meet the True Guru, and then the Dear Lord, by His Sweet Will, shall bless you with His Mercy. ||2||

ਨਾਨਕ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰਾਲਭਧ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਸੱਚੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਿਲਦੇ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਤਾਂ ਪੂਜਯ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਆਪਣੇ ਮਿੱਠੜੇ ਭਾਣੇ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਬੰਦੇ ਤੇ ਮਿਹਰ ਧਾਰਦਾ ਹੈ।

ਕਰਮਿ = ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਸ਼ ਨਾਲ। ਰਜਾਇ = (ਆਪਣੀ) ਰਜ਼ਾ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ॥੨॥
ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਜਦੋਂ ਹਰੀ ਆਪਣੀ ਰਜ਼ਾ ਵਿਚ ਮੇਹਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਦੋਂ (ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹਾ) ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਪੂਰੀ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਸ਼ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੨॥


ਪਉੜੀ ॥

पउड़ी ॥

Pa▫oṛī.

Pauree:

ਪਉੜੀ।

xxx
xxx


ਜਿਸ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਦੀਬਾਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਮੁਠੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਗਤੁ ਸਭੁ ਆਇਆ ॥

जिस कै घरि दीबानु हरि होवै तिस की मुठी विचि जगतु सभु आइआ ॥

Jis kai gẖar ḏībān har hovai ṯis kī muṯẖī vicẖ jagaṯ sabẖ ā▫i▫ā.

The whole world comes under the control of one whose home is filled with the Lord, the King.

ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ-ਘਰ ਅੰਦਰ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਸੁਆਮੀ ਵਸਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਹਕੂਮਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਸਾਰਾ ਜਹਾਨ ਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।

ਦੀਬਾਨੁ = ਹਾਕਮ।
ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ (ਸਭ ਦਾ) ਹਾਕਮ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਵੱਸਦਾ ਹੋਵੇ, ਸਾਰਾ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਵੱਸ ਵਿਚ ਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।


ਤਿਸ ਕਉ ਤਲਕੀ ਕਿਸੈ ਦੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਦੀਬਾਨਿ ਸਭਿ ਆਣਿ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

तिस कउ तलकी किसै दी नाही हरि दीबानि सभि आणि पैरी पाइआ ॥

Ŧis ka▫o ṯalkī kisai ḏī nāhī har ḏībān sabẖ āṇ pairī pā▫i▫ā.

He is subject to no one else's rule, and the Lord, the King, causes everyone to fall at his feet.

ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਕਿਸੇ ਦੀ ਭੀ ਮੁਥਾਜੀ ਨਹੀਂ। ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਹਾਕਮ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਲਿਆ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾ ਦਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ।

ਤਲਕੀ = ਮੁਥਾਜੀ। ਦੀਬਾਨਿ = ਹਾਕਮ ਨੇ।
ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਕਿਸੇ ਦੀ ਕਾਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦੀ, (ਸਗੋਂ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਹਾਕਮ ਨੇ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਲਿਆ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਚਰਨੀਂ ਪਾਇਆ (ਹੁੰਦਾ) ਹੈ।


ਮਾਣਸਾ ਕਿਅਹੁ ਦੀਬਾਣਹੁ ਕੋਈ ਨਸਿ ਭਜਿ ਨਿਕਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਦੀਬਾਣਹੁ ਕੋਈ ਕਿਥੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥

माणसा किअहु दीबाणहु कोई नसि भजि निकलै हरि दीबाणहु कोई किथै जाइआ ॥

Māṇsā ki▫ahu ḏībāṇahu ko▫ī nas bẖaj niklai har ḏībāṇahu ko▫ī kithai jā▫i▫ā.

One may run away from the courts of other men, but where can one go to escape the Lord's Kingdom?

ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਅਦਾਲਤਾਂ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਕੋਈ ਦੌੜ ਭੱਜ ਕੇ ਨਿਕਲ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ, ਪ੍ਰੰਤੂ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਕੋਈ ਕਿਥੇ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ।

xxx
ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੀ ਕਚਹਿਰੀ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੱਸ ਭੱਜ ਕੇ ਭੀ ਕਿਤੇ ਖਿਸਕ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ, ਪਰ ਰੱਬ ਦੀ ਹਕੂਮਤ ਤੋਂ ਭੱਜ ਕੇ ਕੋਈ ਕਿੱਥੇ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ?


ਸੋ ਐਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਦੀਬਾਨੁ ਵਸਿਆ ਭਗਤਾ ਕੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਤਿਨਿ ਰਹਦੇ ਖੁਹਦੇ ਆਣਿ ਸਭਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਅਗੈ ਖਲਵਾਇਆ ॥

सो ऐसा हरि दीबानु वसिआ भगता कै हिरदै तिनि रहदे खुहदे आणि सभि भगता अगै खलवाइआ ॥

So aisā har ḏībān vasi▫ā bẖagṯā kai hirḏai ṯin rahḏe kẖuhḏe āṇ sabẖ bẖagṯā agai kẖalvā▫i▫ā.

The Lord is such a King, who abides in the hearts of His devotees; He brings the others, and makes them stand before His devotees.

ਉਹ ਐਹੋ ਜੇਹਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਸੰਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਮਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਵੱਸਿਆ ਹੈ, ਕਿ ਬਾਕੀ ਦਿਆਂ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਲਿਆ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਸੰਤਾਂ ਮੂਹਰੇ ਖੜਾ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ।

ਤਿਨਿ = ਉਸ ਹਰੀ ਨੇ। ਰਹਦੇ ਖੁਹਦੇ = ਬਾਕੀ ਬਚੇ ਹੋਏ ਜੋ ਅਜੇ ਤਕ ਭਗਤਾਂ ਦੀ ਪੈਰੀਂ ਲੱਗਣ ਤੋਂ ਝਕਦੇ ਸਨ। ਆਣਿ = ਲਿਆ ਕੇ। ਖਲਵਾਇਆ = ਖੜੇ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤੇ।
ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹਾ ਹਾਕਮ ਹਰੀ ਭਗਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਵੱਸਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਨੇ "ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਖੁੰਹਦੇ" ਸਾਰੇ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਲਿਆ ਕੇ ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਅੱਗੇ ਖੜੇ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ (ਭਾਵ, ਚਰਨੀਂ ਲਿਆ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੈ)।


ਹਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ਕੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਕਰਮਿ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਿਰਲੈ ਕਿਨੈ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥੧੪॥

हरि नावै की वडिआई करमि परापति होवै गुरमुखि विरलै किनै धिआइआ ॥१४॥

Har nāvai kī vadi▫ā▫ī karam parāpaṯ hovai gurmukẖ virlai kinai ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā. ||14||

The glorious greatness of the Lord's Name is obtained only by His Grace; how few are the Gurmukhs who meditate on Him. ||14||

ਰੱਬ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਬਜ਼ੁਰਗੀ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਮਿਹਰ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦੀ ਹੈ। ਬਹੁਤ ਥੋੜੇ ਨੇਕ ਬੰਦੇ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ।

xxx॥੧੪॥
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਖ਼ਾਸ ਮੇਹਰ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ (ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਗੁਣ) ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ; ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਹੀ (ਨਾਮ) ਸਿਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੧੪॥

Realizing all one within within and seeing all one without is a key message and then birth/death and all reincarnation, merging, mukti, joon-free (incarnations or transformations) stops being of need or applicability.

Sat Sri Akal. eacesign:

PS: Whereas I have simply copied the above from srigranth.org, I will try to deliberate and provide my own understanding later on if possible.

 

[mandemeet]

Mandemeet ji,

Guru Fateh.

One request to all.

Please do not copy and paste one liners which can be misleading without the whole shabad and hence, one liners become weapons to prove one's point rather than interacting for learning through Sadh Sangat which is our main goal here.

So, I would request you to start a new thread under the following thread with your personal understanding, not just the literal translation which is on the net, so we can all share our own and learn from each other.

Let's be civil to each other so we can create the learning process among the cyber sangat.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh ji

Sat Sree Akaal ji!

I usually don’t respond to any biased reaction, but just for the record, here are my views in context of your reaction to my post.

I responded to Japjisahib004’s one-liner Gurbani quotes. Haven’t you noticed before Japjisahib004 has been using one-liner quotes on this thread for a while? Didn’t you feel that his one liner quotes could mislead the cyber sangat? When he posts one-liner, it is ok, but when someone, who is in disagreement with your views, posts one-liners, then the all posters must be advised and counseled to post the entire shabd. I have given pages with my one liners so that if anyone wants, one can look at that and explore further but Japjisahib004 even didn’t give pages like in post number 24 or 96 and you appreciated him, didn’t you? Where is fairness? Such uncalled-for intervention is enough for me.

Now I wonder how I have lost civility by questioning his interpretation!

Thanks.
Regards
mandemeet