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Christianity Why Do I Believe In Jesus? An Ex-sikhs Journey In Faith

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Jan 25, 2007
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Gurfateh!!

Go and ask a priest how the earth can be flat. He will say just get lost.

Ask them how Jesus was born to a virgin; they will again ask youi to go away.

You wil have to believe these illogical anti-science things to be a Christian.

Inspite of numerous ways and spending huge amounts on preaching, people in West are going away from Christianity. After all, we have to be true to ourselves. When we sleep and sit with ourselves, ourown mind and soul ask us what we are doing and where we are going. And then there is no answer to these questions. This leads to unrest and a false hope that Jesus is the only saviour. Guru Sahib tells us that one can only be saved by Lord with His Mehar.

Regards
Parminder Singh
 

sikhway

SPNer
Jul 23, 2004
16
9
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Is this hilarious or what?
Nobody kows what jesus did or stood for.
[1] He never left anything behind. Ummm Like Gurus did.

It is all heresy

[2] That is the reason Bible gets changed every 50 years or so.
So it becomes religon of convenience.
We can be gay, pedophiles [priests,] smokers, drinkers and manipulatorers and still be good christians.


[3] About him going to death willingly like Ninth Guru Ji--nope!
He was tied to his cross with romans carrying whips behind him.
Hey! You can call it willingly!

Bibe is the ONLY book that gets changed unashamedly.
ONLY!
Ramayan-NO
Bhgawat Gita --No
SGGSJ--no
Torah--No
Quaran-No
Bible-YES everyone can change it to fit them.

AND it appeals to dimwits. Eastern religons are for higher thinkers.

FLAT EARTH!!!!!!!!
AHHAAAA:whisling:

NO EVOLUTION
AHAHHAHAA:whisling:

EARTH IS CENTER
AHAHAHAHAH:whisling:

A VIRGIN BIRTH
AHAHHAAHAHAHAAAHAHAHHAAH:whisling:

Earth is on 6000 years old?
AHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAAAAAAA:whisling:

Oh and all the herbalists are witches
AHHAAAAAAAAAA:}8-:

PLEASE stop it-you are killing me!:rofl!!::}{}{}::whisling:

It has been proven that BIble brought on DARK AGES.
I hope you read history.
The priests had to unlearn greek, roman, persian Indian knowledge
and make people dumb-

Thank god to people like galileo who went to prison and brough some of it back

Ummm Thats christianity in a nutshell for ya.:rofl!!:
 
Feb 19, 2007
494
888
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Delhi India
Sikh Gurus are the only true secularists.
They preached equality of women with men far before it became a fad in the west.
Sikh religion is the only religion that banned smoking. At that time we were made fun off. Now anti smoking laws are being enacted the world over.
Guru Gobind strongly disapproved sex with more than one person. This has also now been vindicated with the spread of AIDS.
Guru Gobind Singh also strongly prohibited consumption of Alcohol which regretfully Sikhs are not obeying.
The list is endless!
 

orange_slice

SPNer
May 22, 2005
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Omaha, NE
Christianity is not a scientific religion. Here are a couple examples of why:

1) Jesus was portrayed to have long hair. Yet in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, Paul states that men should not have long hair:

Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? (1 Corinthians 11: 14-15, NIV)

The only explanation that Christians have for this is that Jesus was from Nazareth so he had to have long hair (one Christian even told me that Jesus could do anything he wanted so it was ok for him). In Sikhism, the Gurus followed their own rules.

2) God commanded Samuel to commit genocide against the Amalekites:

"Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (Samuel 15:3).

Yet, the Bible commands us to not kill (originally it was not to murder, but then it was changed to kill, which is not a subtle point because kill and murder are different). The only explanation Christians have for this is that the Amalekites were particularly evil. But the Nazis said that the Jews were particularly evil, does that mean they were justified in attempting genocide? Of course not. It is another contradiction in the bible - There is a rule that we should not kill, yet God commands it. Again, in Sikhism, the Gurus followed their own rules.

3) Paul's letter to the Corinthians tell us that men should not cover their heads, yet the Pope himself covers his head often times in public:

Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake. Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels...(Corinthians 11:4 to 11:10)

The only explanation Christians have for this is that that particular passage does not apply to us today. Why not? If it is the word of God, why doesn't it apply anymore? Once again the Sikh Gurus followed their own rules, and everything written in the Guru Granth Sahib is applicable today just as much as it was when it was written.

Any scientific piece of work, regardless of its conclusion, cannot possibly contradict itself. Christianity and the bible contradict themselves in several places...these are just 3 examples.



4) Jesus did not write the bible. The bible was written around 70 years AFTER Jesus died. The Sikh Gurus wrote the Guru Granth Sahib with their own hands, increasing its credibility. If someone wrote a book about me 70 years after I died, isn't there a chance that it lacks the accuracy it could have if I had written it myself? Think about it...



Christianity "changes" itself when it finds it convenient (early Catholics thought the Earth was the center of the universe, that the Earth is 6000 years old, that evolution does not take place)...now many Christians believe that the Earth is not the center of the universe (hopefully all of them do), that the Earth is more than 6000 years old (sadly, some still believe that), and yes some Christians are now admitting that evolution could be possible since the evidence is virtually irrefutable. Realize it: Christianity and the bible have changed...if God is perfect, how can his word change? How can his word contradict itself??

Make your own logical conclusions about all these things...
 

satwant

SPNer
Oct 18, 2006
26
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singapore
Re: An ex-Sikh’s Journey in Faith

Dear Rajs,

Not only do I find you as a person who suffers from inferiority complex but also of illogical thinking. I am glad that you have converted to Christianity.

The Sikhs do not talk like, behave and think like you.

We know what the Gurus' taught us and are proud of their teachings.

Satwant
 

jag1t

SPNer
Jul 8, 2006
48
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Dear participants,

Why this futile battle of words? I know it can be recreational or perhaps serve a deep seated need to justify oneself and trash the other. But besides this what?

Religions, as distinct from spirituality, have their pros and cons. Otherwise entire humanity would be following one religion!

If any of you really wish that something worthwhile happen during your earthly existence then please turn to spirituality. I know entire humanity is not involved in spirituality too but then it is only a rare few who have the insight, background and divine blessings (mehar). So be it...

Regards and best wishes,

jag1ts
 
Feb 19, 2007
494
888
71
Delhi India
To show the superiority of ones religion or prophets a lot of distasteful things have been said by running down others religious beliefs.

Sikhism certainly does not encourage or subscribe to this.

I am not a very articulate person. But i would definitely say that to have really comprehensive understanding of Sikhism, I would recommend that we read books like "Guru Nanak Chamatkar", "Guru Kalgidhar chamatkar" by Bhai Vir Singh ji. Reading them slowly is an enchanting and an elevating experience. You read it and you will develop love for Sikhism without hating any other religion! It is sad that such incomparable masterpieces have not been popularised even among Sikhs! You will not realise what you have missed in life until you actually read them.

I would recommend that every Sikh home keeps these books and other works by Bhai Vir Singh Ji and read a little daily.

Harbans
 

Sanjay_Singh

SPNer
Jun 29, 2007
1
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I am the opposite of you. I was born Christain, and converted to Sikhisim. I realized how blasphemous it was to say that Wahe Guru, "who is beyond the cycle of birth's and death's" would come down to earth in human form. I never grasped that concept untill I was a teen ager, and when I did, I realized that I never really believed it my entire life. Sikhisim is young compared to other world religions, and is rooted entirely in fact. Unlike most religions which have been orally passed down for thousands of years before ever being transcribed. I'm sorry but the margin for error is just too great. PLUS when the roman empire adoped it as their offical state religion, they changed christianity so much it became nothing like it was to start with.

Jesus was a great guy, and he was no doubt a prophet. But his deciples skrewed every thing up for all of us.

Not to mention the HORRIBLE crimes that have been committed throughout history in the name of Jesus Christ.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Jul 4, 2004
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KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
Does Jesus belive in Insest? The origin of mankind is from Adam and Ave acording to the teaching of Christianaty.When they ate the forbidden apple
How did mankind grow after that? Lay man like me would think that their children married among themself....pls enlighten me
It is impossible for "incest" to go on for more than a few Generations....serious mental deficiencies etc result thru inbreeding. This cna be easily proven.

Secondly bible says adam had two sons....did they produce children with their mum or what ?? or were they the worlds first gays..

No offense meant to anyone..just curious myself. Just had a chance to see a film called DOGMA....about God, the first sin..angels and satan and all that..hilarious but quite factual. Satan caught "God" in human Form...whacked him on the ehad into a COMA..and kept "him" on life support. ( reason - God in a COMA was helpless...death could take him straight to heaven and full power..so he was kept in coma and on life support while the devil tried to take over. The reason i quote this is...the director got this RIGHT - "GOD" in a HUMAN FORM is essentially HUMAN. That is why the Sikh GURUS insist that GOD NEVER comes in Human Form !!

Gyani Jarnail Singh
 

21khalsa13

HRH
SPNer
Jan 16, 2005
83
18
on earth
Interesting post
i have had several thoughts regarding Adam etc
he had two sons, one killed the other, then was banished and was forced to set off. he then 'married' and set up his own family - who did he marry

adam was 'first' man eve the first woman two kids etc

who did he marry?

apprerantly this was 6000 BC years ago,
indian history is longer than that...

Dogma is a brilliant film .... preferably watched at the same time as Stigmata
dogma is more light hearted - stigmata a bit deeper but they compliment well
true christainity is way way different from what is practiced at the moment
 

Khalsa1699

SPNer
Apr 8, 2007
10
1
Christianity is a fundamentally flawed religion.


1.According to the Bible, following events have occurred

  • [*]Events such as the stopping of the sun by Joshua (Joshua 10:12-14)
    [*]The reversal of the sun's course by Isaiah (Isaiah 38:7-8)
    [*]The resurrection of the saints, and their subsequent appearance to many (Matthew 27:52-53) were witnessed by thousands of people.
The stopping and reversal of the sun would have been visible worldwide. The idea that people could have witnessed these events without having been amazed by them is, quite simply, ludicrous. Other cultures having witnessed this would certainly have offered their own explanations in keeping with their own cultural and religious beliefs. Surely a society existing at the time would have documented this miraculous event. Yet nowhere have such works been found. In the instance of the resurrection of the saints, Matthew is the only person to mention this occurrence in the Bible. Surely other first-century Christians would have used this as further proof of Jesus' divinity. It would fall to reason that Paul and the gospels would have mentioned it. This is not, however, the case. Nowhere else in the Bible is this mentioned or even hinted at. These events are then, at best, highly unlikely to have occurred. The fact that Matthew is alone in writing of the resurrection of the saints leads us to believe that certain writers of the Bible had differing views on Christianity.

2. The Christian Bible is highly contradictory not just to modern day Christian beliefs but in and of itself. Today's society is of the belief that all people are created equal, and Christians submit that their god is of the same belief. Modern Christians believe that their god loves everyone, and that they are all equal. However, after Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree forbidden by god, this deity said to Eve "I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master." (Genesis 3:16). This tells us that, according to the Christian religion, women shall naturally be dominated by men. This kind of behaviour is not conducive to a being who believes in inherent equality. Women are repeatedly treated as objects and told to be submissive in the Bible. "According to the rule observed in all the assemblies of believers, women should keep silent in such gatherings. Rather, as the law indicates, submissiveness is indicated for them. If they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. It is a disgrace when a woman speaks in the assembly." (1 Corinthians 14:34-35). "Man was not made from woman but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, a woman ought to have a sign of submission on her head." (1 Corinthians 11:8-10).

3. The Bible also permits bondage. "Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from among neighbouring the nations. You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and raised in their land. Such slaves you may own as chattels and leave to your sons as their hereditary property making them perpetual slaves." (Leviticus 25:44-46). This same Bible gives laws on the punishment of slaves. "When a man strikes his slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21)

4. We find further examples of prejudice in Deuteronomy. In the Bible, it is stated that "No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose p***s has been cut off may be admitted into the community of the Lord. No child of an incestuous or adulterous union may be admitted into the community of the Lord, nor any descendant of his even to the tenth generation." (Deuteronomy 23:2-3).
Consider the first statement. If a faithful Christian were to get in an automobile accident with a resulting injury to his genitals, he would not be admitted into Heaven. The second statement is even more ridiculous than the first. An innocent child, through no fault of its own, is born a b*****d. He may not be admitted into heaven. But more than that, none of his descendants may ever be admitted. These are not characteristics which are normally associated with justice and goodness. These are petty, cruel actions.

5. This is not the only discrepancy in the christian Bible. Judah's daughter-in-law, Tamar, is said to have been a harlot (Genesis 38:24). Because of her harlotry, she became pregnant (Genesis 38:25). She had twins and named them Perez and Zerah. "These are the descendants of Perez: Perez was the father of Hezron, Hezron was the father of Ram, Ram was the father of Amminibad, Amminibad was the father of Nahshon, Nahshon was the father of Salmon, Salmon was the father of Boaz, Boaz was the father of Obed, Obed was the father of Jesse, and Jesse became the father of David." (Ruth 4:18-22).
Therefore David, King of Israel, was a descendant of a b*****d and subsequently should not have been allowed into the community the Lord. This is a huge contradiction, as David is such an important figure in the bible.

6. In Christianity, Christ is central in atoning for the sins of mankind. Had there been no sins of mankind, there would be no story of Christ. The nature of sin must then therefore be analysed. It is accepted by Christians that god created everything. If this is true, then this same god created evil. It is written in the Bible that god is all-knowing (1 John 3:20). God is, in effect, omniscient. If god is omniscient and creates, he then knows all possible outcomes of all possible creations of all possible universes. If he created our universe, he chose what its destiny would be. In doing so, he chose the paths of our lives. Thus, we can conclude that the universe is completely deterministic to god and, by being a creator, he cannot allow freewill to exist unless the universe is no longer predetermined to him. If this is true, then humanity is merely a collection of automotons. If this is not true, then god cannot be omniscient. If the Christian god were omniscient, then he could foresee his own future. If this being knows its own future, he does not have the power to change it. Considering, however, that god is omnipotent, there is a major conflict with his omniscient nature. If god were able to change his future, that would mean that god would not be able to foresee when he would make sudden changes in his future and what changes would result, eliminating the possibility of his being omniscient. Therefore, these qualities cannot be held simultaneously by one being. It is important now to look at the possibility of omnipotence. The Christian god is perfectly good and omnipotent. Yet evil exists. If god is omnipotent and perfectly good, he could and would dispel evil. Three possible conclusions arise from these statements.

Ø God is perfectly good but evil exists, so he is not able to dispell evil and thus is not omnipotent.
Ø The second possible conclusion is this: that god is omnipotent but evil exists, and god is therefore not perfectly good.
Ø The last possible, and most feasible, conclusion is that god does not exist.

It can easily be seen that Christianity is a religion based on falsehoods and has many intrinsic flaws. They are seen by the fact that the followers of this religion do not conduct themselves in the manner proscribed by their most holy texts. These errors reside in the facts that these same texts are contradictory, and that their very god cannot possibly exist.
 

ballym

SPNer
May 19, 2006
257
334
Oh!Oh! my God is best. I salute to sikhism because it never boasts of being best. It allows equality of ALL kinds.
There is some rigidity being tried but I am sure truthful sikhs will deny them final win.
If Jesus is THE GOD, then why does not God take care of all humans????
WHY did not HE KNOW THAT THIS EARTH IS ROUND???
All fake.
Your self-control is your God.
If you need a real God or guru or teacher or devta to control yourself, it is your own need.
That is all... be truthful to all.
 
Jul 9, 2007
12
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Calgary
Ok, first off arguing about all of this is PIONTLESS!! You all seem as if u are trying to tell each other wich religion is truly the best! Have you all forgotten the point of religion?! Religion is supossed to connnect you with God and save you from this evil world and the 5 evils and sins and such. Sikhism and Christianity are just two slightly different paths that yeild the same results,
connection to God! I could argue about everything Rajs has said about Sikhi but I won't. NOT because i actually believe what he is saying BEACUSE I DON'T! I won't argue because it's futile and arguing over religion is hopeless.
It's about what YOU believe and if u are totally and utterly devoted to your religion then you WILL meet with God in the end.
However i would like to say ONE thing. Rajs, what kind of Christian do u consider yourself? You attacked another religion alomost insisiting that Sikhism was wrong (or Islam,Buddism,Hindusim in your first post,almsot insisting that these religions were untrue beacue their leaders "died")
and you were practically insisting that Christainity was totally right!
One word of advice: GET OVER IT!!! Sikhism is neither inferior nor supirior
to Christianity. or vice versa. They are both religions that are great in their own ways and just because you are no longer a sikh it does NOT give you the right to critize it. (and the rest of people who are sikhs shouldn't critize Christainity just beace he is critizing our religion. Two wrongs DONT' make a right!)

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji kee Fathe!
 

deepsingh87

SPNer
Jun 3, 2007
93
18
If both the religions lead to the same path. Then its much easier to be a christan than a sikh. Then i dont understand why in the heck one would become a sikh.
 

Khalsa1699

SPNer
Apr 8, 2007
10
1
Here ya go Amritdhari_grl, deepsingh ji has a point.

If following Christianity one reaches his/her true destination why would he/she bother going to the tough route. In fact what you saying suggests our Guru never intended to start a new religion and if did intend to start a new religion, it means either other religions failed to give the right path or their followers failed to grasp it, and in both the cases the other religion(s) did fail to do the job and gave the way to other one.

I'm surprised by your comments following which suggests 'Jesus is God' which directly contradicts 'Baisc Sikh Philosophy' and this is fundamental issue for any religion and now how could both religions be right here.

Christanity is purely a religion which aimed at controlling people and power and there is nothing spiritual in it at all.

Though I believe in 'Religious Tolerance' and respect for other faiths but just respect because of people's emotions involved and respecting other faith doesn't mean they are right.

This is Sikh Forum and post aims at convertions, then they got to prove their point which is not there at all. We are not here to argue but have to defend our faith and the truth. Ask the Web MAster to delete such posts and we are more than happy to just discuss spirituality.

Wahe Guru Ji Da Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Di Fateh
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Jul 14, 2007
4,576
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10 Questions for Christians


1. Where is the justice in punishing us for Adam's sin? If the bible itself says that children will not be punished for the parents' sins (Deut. 24:16). Furthermore, if God really created Adam not knowing either good or evil (Gen 3:22), how could such a harsh and enduring punishment as death for Adam and all his descendants possibly be just? Our secular courts are more just than God when they show mercy on people who cannot distinguish between right and wrong, such as children and the mentally handicapped. And why isn't this doctrine of original sin found anywhere in the Bible except in Paul's writings? Why didn't Jesus ever mention it, or teach it?

2. How could Adam and Eve ever have sinned if God had actually created them perfect, even if they did have free will? If God created them imperfect, how could a perfect omnipotent being create anything imperfect?

3. Why Pray? If it changes God's mind then he is not sovereign. If it does not change Gold's mind then it is superfluous.

4. Why would a loving, omnipotent, benevolent god cause people to believe falsehoods so that he can condemn them? (II Thes 2:11 - 12)

5. Why does Jesus quote a non-existent verse of the OT scripture (John 7:38)? Is it possible that he considered other non-canonical writings also to be God's Word?

6. Which "Ten Commandments" are the Ten Commandments - the ones listed in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, or the ones listed at Exodus 34? Only the list at Exodus 34 is explicitly called the "Ten Commandments" in the biblical text.

7. Why does the writer of Matthew quote a non-existent OT prophecy (Matthew 2:23)?

8. Why does the writer of Matthew attribute a quote about the potter's field to Jeremiah, when Jeremiah has no such passage and the closest one in the OT is Zechariah (Matthew 27:9 - 10, Zechariah 11:12)?

9. Why doesn't prayer work, when the bible promises that it will (John 14:14, for example)?

10. Why aren't christians doing greater works than Jesus did, since he himself said they would (John 14:12)? Why aren't they raising the dead, turning water into wine, healing the sick, feeding multitudes from a very small amount of food, casting out demons, walking on water?

I hope this does not amount to blasphemy.My sole intention here is to get clarifications which are yet to be given by anyone. I have asked these questions before which are from an article but have not received any answer. I am just curious.
http://www.exchristian.net/
 
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spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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Begum ji

Why the concern about blasphemy? This is a forum where we are supposed to ask questions and where we expect intelligent :unsure:reactions from others. Even when we do not particularly like some of the responses we get (ego whining now and then). Your questions are reasonable and provocative. Now the only things that can go wrong: hate messaging, personal attacks and name calling, grossly uninformed responses, and evangelism.

God is always cheerful.
 
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