Who Is Sehajdhari? A Question As Old As The 1925 Sikh Gurdwara Act

SinghWeapon

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No one is Sehajdhari. One can only be the purest as they can be..and keep travelling on the path to complete purity. It is not acheived, it does not "get completed" it does not have an ending. Who is to judge? Whos respect are you trying to earn? Are you a showpiece? Are you real? One cannot brag about being sehajdhari, or even say that they are, they can only claim to be a Sikh and a student of the gurus, who is forever learning and purifying. *
 
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No one is Sehajdhari. One can only be the purest as they can be..and keep travelling on the path to complete purity. It is not acheived, it does not "get completed" it does not have an ending. Who is to judge? Whos respect are you trying to earn? Are you a showpiece? Are you real? One cannot brag about being sehajdhari, or even say that they are, they can only claim to be a Sikh and a student of the gurus, who is forever learning and purifying. *
We all are children of that almighty those are troubled by some of the thoughts that we have today. We are wondering and uselessly wasting time on petty issues. Why we wonder about birth and death. Why we wonder that he/ she get sick and why grandfather died. Why we wonder that why our wishes do not come true. We wonder about happiness and beauty in nature.
We are still confronting on the petty issues. Off the track but concerned with divine beauty I come to the story of Siddhartha. One day Siddhartha became disillusioned with the palace and wanted to see the outside world. He made four trips outside the palace and saw four things that changed his life. On the first three trips he saw sickness, old age and death. He asked himself, How can I enjoy a life of pleasure when there is so much suffering in the world. On his fourth trip he saw a wandering monk who had given up everything he owned to seek an end to suffering. What Siddhartha thought: I shall be like him.
The fourth incident changed the life of Sidhartha and he left kingdom and loved ones behind and became a wandering monk. He cut off hair to show that he had renounced the worldly lifestyle and called himself Gautama. He wore ragged robes and wandered from place to place. In his search for truth, he studied with the wisest teachers of that time. But none of them provide knowledge to him that how one can end suffering. So, he continued the search on his own.
The purpose to highlight this story is that we should get enlightenment. But the selfish persons are diverting our path from pleasure to the life full of unnecessary disputes. Basic teachings of all dharmas are one and the same. The teaching of Lord Buddha apply in this case as well.
1. There is suffering and Suffering is common to all.
2. Cause of Suffering. We are the cause of our suffering.
3. End of Suffering. Stop doing what causes suffeing.
4. Path to end suffering. Everyone can be enlightened.
So we should follow the teachings of our Gurus and we should concentrate on the subject of enlightenment, but we people are being bifurcated in Sehajdaris and all that. We don't concentrate on the subject of concentration. We should teach the society the art of concentration of mind and body. so that we feel relaxed and become peaceful.
But our politicians are dividing us on the meagre issues those have nothing to do with Sikhism ------the Purity of mind and body.
Regards,
Rajneesh Madhok
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

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Re: Sehajdhari issue as old as Gurdwara Act

Any Amritdhari will always say the physical Rehat is essential to being Sikh,remember people wore turbans because that was the culture in Punjab,some smoked Huka too .One never likes to break with convention and articles of faith have become to those who wear them essential to their faith If you like the Amritdhari fundamentalists say a Sikh must have the physical appearance to be Sikh then you are also saying that practice of Gurbani is by itself not enough,we all know that cannot be correct.I think once you keep Kesh no one will convince you otherwise but most people will agree that Gurbani deals with the Self not the body.And there is no Rehat Maryada for the body contained in it's pages.In the end no one will take their bodies much less their long hair so what is the use in making distinctions, we all leave without Kesh.If you cannot see all Sikhs as the same then how will you see all mankind as the same.Guru Nanak said their were no Hindu and no Muslim in otherwords there is no two of anything on this earth.If you see two that is duality.May I quote Spner Max314 he explains the distinction much better than me. "Guru Nanak's sentiments never actually promoted religion, nor did he promote any other form of institutionalised belief system. Rather, he spent most of his time pointing out the common goods in existing religions, and condemning what he perceived to be their individual deficits.I don't think that Sikhism is a 'religion', though I believe that Khalsaism is.The reason for this is very simple: the Guru Granth Sahib promotes equality, secularism, non-discrminatory, non-divisional views on living with a God who is featureless, formless and timeless. It rejects the notion of rituals and routines, and it discards the importance of wearing particular clothes over the content of one's character. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Dassam Granth, on the other hand, teaches that a Khalsa is above all and that a Khalsa should not consort with non-Khalsas. It teaches of a God who is wrathful and vengeful, and places importance on certain rituals (e.g. taking amrit) and codes of practice and dress (e.g. the Five K's, etc).Weighing up the two sets of information, it would seem to me that the way of the Khalsa measures up to all the distinguishable requisites of a religion, whereas Sikkhism is almost entirely independent of that.The Khalsa, it seems, was forged very deliberately into a warrior cult or religion in order to protect those universal, non-institutional teachings of the Granth and to enforce its principles. A 'necessary evil', one might say.Of course, given the amount of time and the proximity with which Sikkhism and its warrior Khalsa cult have lived side-by-side has meant that many Khalsaist influences have trickled down and eventually set upon the now-accepted image of Sikkhism. But, in my view, the two are always going to be essentially separate, though historically linked"
 

Searching

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Sikhism has a concept that in spirit Guru Nanak sahib ji is no different from Guru Angad sahib ji and so on. If we chose to disbelieve or reject sayings of one Guru sahib ji according to what suits us, we totally reject the concept of same spirit carrying forward in all Guru jis and hence Sikhism.
Sikhism is what it is. Not subjected to change with what people feel comfortable in a particular place and time.
The way we chose to live by it may change though.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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There are plenty of references to BODY DISCIPLINE in Gurbani and related Texts of Bhai gurdass Ji...the need to get up early, (sleep less), the need to BATHE ( in cold river/sarovar waters), the NEED to keep the body as sabat soorat (Rejection of those who practised cutting hair.......to show RENUNCIATION from the world as even Gautama Buddha Ji did destroying hair form its roots,(Jains and ceretain sects) keeping long matted hair as a sign of deep religious spirituality, NOT WORKING but begging as a livelihood, etc etc) are all disciplines of the BODY. Why Keep long hair matted and uncombed..as a sign of spirituality ? Why cut your hair to its roots when the Mann has NOt been cut/trimmed/rooted out all bad thoughts/evils kaam etc? Why rub soot into hair roots to stop all hair growth ? ALL these REALIGIOUS PRACTISES were seen closely and observed by the Sikh Founder Guur nanak ji and revered Bhagats like Kabir Ji as well and REJECTED. Mnay Forget that the SIKH REHAT is not merely keeping long hair..the requisite is a daily Bath, daily COMBING of hair twice at least (Kangha is mandatory), removal of dastaar fold by fold and RETYING it fold by fold each time - these are Disciplines of the Body.
GURBANI is the First step...a SIKH has to Walk the Talk...read, listen, FOLLOW and ADAPT his daily life according to GURBANI...thats the FUNDAMENTAL BOTTOM LINE....and this is the Very First TOP MOST requirement in the SRM....the Kesh and all that come a distant second last in the definition of a SIKH..BUT theres NO ESCAPING that FINAL CHAPTER either...if one thinks he can dispense with that..then hes a bigger fool than the one who starts Sikhi Bottoms UP !!..and stays at the stage of merely keeping kesh etc.... As they say the Taste is in the EATING..Gurbani syas the same thing..Thaal vich teen vastoo paiyoo..SAT SANTOKH VICHAR..Je ko KHAVEH, Je Ko BHUNCHEH..tis ko hoi UDHAAR. Everything begins at a Stage ONE...and SIKHI begins from SGGS....one who claims he has "tasted" SGGS has to be transformed....if he shows no signs of any transformation..hes self deception in progress...just as self deceptive as the failed/Beginner studnet putting on the borrowed/rented cloak/hat etc and claiming hes a PHD. Thats why Kabir Ji rejected BOTH the Clean Shaven and the Matted Hair types...as HOLLOW inside devoid of any spirituality but just empty vessels. THIS TUK of Kabor Ji is NEVER EVER quoted by the Clean Shaven "gurbani experts" because it cuts deep..too deep for comfort...they rather ignore it and harp on the ones about long hair !!! They Conveniently FORGET/IGNORE the fact that its INFINITELY HARDER to "Clean Shave the MANN of its Vikaars, bad habits, lies, cheating, jealousy etc etc etc which DARKEN IT....while its so EASY to catch hold of a RAZOR...and close the bathroom door for a few minutes..or better still seat ones self in a BARBERS CHAIR and eb manipulated by him for a small fee !! And SGGS DEFINITELY has a Whole LOT to say about the MANN !! GURBANI and History proves that the MANN caused the downfall of those with huge Families, with wealth and power, Rishis and Munnis, even DEVTAS as powerful as Shiv, Brahma etc...and listen to a "clean shaven sikh"..and you would THINK that hes MASTERED GURBANI ( at least thats what he thinks he has done/accomplished...and so dearly wishes everyone else would BELIEVE HIM...that HE just shaved his ehad and achieved what Brahma Shiv and raavan etc FAILED to do - CONQUER HIS MANN !!!)
For me its easier to beleive the 4 year old kiddie standing in front of me inside the University cloak and wearing that ridiculous tasseld hat on his head has achieved the PHD status and can be called a Professor of Divinity !!...OR his kiddie bro that was just shaved bald yesterday for a Hindu religious ceremony claim that hes the real Professor of Divinity and his bald head is proof of it !! HINDU ANNAH..TURKU KANNAH..dohan te GYANI siyannah...dont be confused by the words "hindu/Turku"...they apply to anyone and everyone...who is SANS REAL UNDERSTANDING and is going only by appearances...its the GYAAN..the Knowledge...thats VITAL..and then just having the Knowledge is also USELESS...VIDYA "VICHAREE"...taan PAR-UPKAREE..the Vidya the gyaan the knowledge has to be PRACTISED....and PRACTISE SHOWS as clearly as a drop of blood shows up on a white sheet !!
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Searching Ji ,By the same token accepting the word of one Guru is the same as accepting all as they were one Joyt .

The GURU has always been ONE..EKO GURU..eko vichaar...SHABAD GURU.
The Bodies were different..born of different mothers fathers at different periods of time...departing differently...old age, disease, torture, young age, battlefiled....as is the HUKM....BUT the "GURU"..the SHABAD is the AAD SACH jugaad SACH and Haisee Bhee SACH..ONE !!
 

Tejwant Singh

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Sikhism has a concept that in spirit Guru Nanak sahib ji is no different from Guru Angad sahib ji and so on. If we chose to disbelieve or reject sayings of one Guru sahib ji according to what suits us, we totally reject the concept of same spirit carrying forward in all Guru jis and hence Sikhism.
Sikhism is what it is. Not subjected to change with what people feel comfortable in a particular place and time.
The way we chose to live by it may change though.

Searching ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sikhi is the only way of life that did not stop in time like other dogmatic religions did. Learning is a life long endeavour. Sikhi changes us and we see
Sikh values in different ways through our learning process, with time.

Sikhi is all about learning, unlearning and relearning with every action we take.

As the old saying goes:

"If we change the way we look at things, then the things we look at change".

Relish your journey.:blueturban:

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: Sehajdhari issue as old as Gurdwara Act

Any Amritdhari will always say the physical Rehat is essential to being Sikh,remember people wore turbans because that was the culture in Punjab,some smoked Huka too .One never likes to break with convention and articles of faith have become to those who wear them essential to their faith If you like the Amritdhari fundamentalists say a Sikh must have the physical appearance to be Sikh then you are also saying that practice of Gurbani is by itself not enough,we all know that cannot be correct.I think once you keep Kesh no one will convince you otherwise but most people will agree that Gurbani deals with the Self not the body.And there is no Rehat Maryada for the body contained in it's pages.In the end no one will take their bodies much less their long hair so what is the use in making distinctions, we all leave without Kesh.If you cannot see all Sikhs as the same then how will you see all mankind as the same.Guru Nanak said their were no Hindu and no Muslim in otherwords there is no two of anything on this earth.If you see two that is duality.May I quote Spner Max314 he explains the distinction much better than me. "Guru Nanak's sentiments never actually promoted religion, nor did he promote any other form of institutionalised belief system. Rather, he spent most of his time pointing out the common goods in existing religions, and condemning what he perceived to be their individual deficits.I don't think that Sikhism is a 'religion', though I believe that Khalsaism is.The reason for this is very simple: the Guru Granth Sahib promotes equality, secularism, non-discrminatory, non-divisional views on living with a God who is featureless, formless and timeless. It rejects the notion of rituals and routines, and it discards the importance of wearing particular clothes over the content of one's character. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Dassam Granth, on the other hand, teaches that a Khalsa is above all and that a Khalsa should not consort with non-Khalsas. It teaches of a God who is wrathful and vengeful, and places importance on certain rituals (e.g. taking amrit) and codes of practice and dress (e.g. the Five K's, etc).Weighing up the two sets of information, it would seem to me that the way of the Khalsa measures up to all the distinguishable requisites of a religion, whereas Sikkhism is almost entirely independent of that.The Khalsa, it seems, was forged very deliberately into a warrior cult or religion in order to protect those universal, non-institutional teachings of the Granth and to enforce its principles. A 'necessary evil', one might say.Of course, given the amount of time and the proximity with which Sikkhism and its warrior Khalsa cult have lived side-by-side has meant that many Khalsaist influences have trickled down and eventually set upon the now-accepted image of Sikkhism. But, in my view, the two are always going to be essentially separate, though historically linked"

Its a gross insult to GURU NANAK JI SAHIB that...one doesnt like to break from convention..tradition...
GURU NANAK JI REJECTED the JANEAU...a total and IMMEDIATE break with convention even at the expense of alienating hsi fmaily and peers...who gahthered at his house for the ceremony, having sllaughtered a GOAT etc for the ceremony. Guur nanak ji didnt COMPROMISE...and say..OK I will wear it for a while...and then take it off..( Just like SOME SIKHS do..they wear their dastaars and dont TRIM their beards just to make their parents Happy, get married..and then Unwind the dastaar, cut their kesh and discard their beard...and show their middel finger..so WHAT can you do to me NOW !!!?? ) GURU NANAK JI CHALLENGED so much "accepted traditional etc...because HE came to CHANGE..not follow the already accepted ( wear turban and smoke Hukka )
2. Secondly its also an insult to say that Guru nanak Ji Mandated Dastaar simply becasue it was ..."accepted tradition..." I wonder why He left out HUKKAH ?? maybe that wanst so traditonal/accepted that much ?? IN FACT he made HUKKAH a KUREHIT !!!...and REMOVAL of DASTAAR a KUREHIT as well...whatever happened to traditional convention ???
SIKHISM is NOT a religion..and neither is KHALSAISM....( Both words not acceptable as they are ISMS)....GURMATT is the WAY OF LIFE..taught by Guur nanak Ji recorded in SGGS. GURMATT is ACCEPTING and ADOPTING the GURU MATT and DISCARDING ones own Manmatt (incluidng whateever is just traditional/conventional/either wearing a puggh or smoking a hukkah and anything else...). GURMATT is NOT a mere BELIEF...it has to be PRACTICALLY FOLLOWED....to Change ones life..no mere LIP SERVICE or chanting mantras will do...and this CHANGE has to become MANIFEST ...VISIBLE....otherwise its a SHAM.
GURU GOBIND SINGH JI is NANAK...and NANAK has ONLY ONE GRANTH..the SGGS. Guru Gobind Singh ji bestowed the Gurgadhi of Nanak on the Completed SGGS in 1708.....completing the CIRCLE..that was revealed with SHABAD GURU..surat dhun Chela that Guru nanak ji told the Sidhs. Its an insult on Guru Gobind Singh ji to even IMPLY that HE deviated/went against the SGGS/GURU NANAK JI Sahib and had his own separate "teachings"...etc. One who has NO FAITH in Guru Gobind Singh Ji has NO faith in the earlier Nine Nanaks - hes self deluded because there is ONLY ONE NANAK !! One just cannot have ones "cake" and eat it too...either one has FAITH in the Complete NANAK..or has NONE..there are no half measures.
THis DIVIDE and DESTROY actually is the AGENDA of all those who produced FAKE bani under Mahallas 5/6/7 and 8 !! wrote fake Guritihaas such as Gurbilas patshahi Chhevin, Gurbilas Patshai Dasvin, the fake bachitar natak Granth and introduced IDOLS, MOORTEES, Brahmin Rituals inside Gurdwaras...etc etc in order to prove that Guur Gobind Singh was a DEVI Bhagta/HINDU on one hand..and also as different from the NINE predecessor Nanaks 1-9.....This Agenda is still in vogue and being actively propogated - either to assimilate Gurmatt into Hindufold..or destroy it completely.
Saying there is NO HIndu and NO MUsslaman is - the Guru sahib pointing out that these BOTH had FOLLOWERS who had DEVIATED form their ORIGINAL TEACHINGS. IF this is being seen as "duality"...then what to make of the Statement GURU TEG BAHADUR JI made to Emperor Aurengzeb..when Aurengzeb told Guur Ji..Please Convert and make my dream of ensuring my Empire has ONLY ONE RELIGION...ISLAM. Guur Ji replied...Emperor..you are mistaken...Now there are TWO Major religions Hindu and Muslim...and when I am GONE ( Because price of refusal to convert was DEATH ).....there will be THREE - MY SIKHS will make the third religion. SO according to the argument that Guur nanak ji rejected "duality" via that statement No hindu an mussalman...Guru teg bahadur Ji si promoting TRIPLITY ?? There is no dearth of people roaring to go and misinterpret Gurbani according to their own versions...
Elsewhere in SGGS its written... Ji has written...I am neither Hindu nor Musslaman..neither Raam nor Allahs..I belong to Allah_Raam !!..SO IF a HINDU is genuinely follwoing Raam..he is no different from the Muslim gneuinely follwoing Allah..thats why the Bhagats Kabir i ravidass Ji etc have no problems with "Allah/Raam/Govind?Krishan/Narayan..whatever...its the "FOLLOWERS" who differentiate between the Allah and Raam...the Duality is in the PERSON who thinks he can be THIS and THAT at the same time...Duality is having 2 feet in different Boats...or many boats...or jumping form one boat to the other at whims and fancies...
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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The person who wrote the above quoted quote by Veer Sinner Ji..has NOT read the so called Dsm Granth. He dosent know even ONE line from it..........and the proof is that he thinks the DG was written to...." Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Dassam Granth, on the other hand, teaches that a Khalsa is above all and that a Khalsa should not consort with non-Khalsas. It teaches of a God who is wrathful and vengeful, and places importance on certain rituals (e.g. taking amrit) and codes of practice and dress (e.g. the Five K's, etc).Weighing up the two sets of information, it would seem to me that the way of the Khalsa measures up to all the distinguishable requisites of a religion, whereas Sikkhism is almost entirely independent of that.The Khalsa, it seems, was forged very deliberately into a warrior cult or religion in order to protect those universal, non-institutional teachings of the Granth and to enforce its principles. A 'necessary evil', one might say.Of course, given the amount of time and the proximity with which Sikkhism and its warrior Khalsa cult have lived side-by-side has meant that many Khalsaist influences have trickled down and eventually set upon the now-accepted image of Sikkhism. But, in my view, the two are always going to be essentially separate, though historically linked"

SGGS declared long ago...SAKAT SAANG na keejeayeh...DO NOT EVEN GO NEAR the NON-BELIEVER !! so the comparison to Khalsa vs non Khalsa is basically misconstrued.( The same idea is pursued here even though the DG is not GGS kirt)

2. Vengeful..wrathful "god"...NO SUCH EXISTS in the SGGS..and thus GGS wouldnt be even mentioning such a god.....as GGS is NANAK...and IF such a god doesnt exist in SGGS..its a FAKE. Entirley laughable that such a wrathful vengeful god is the one who INSISTS on so called Khalsa Rituals rehit kakaars etc !!!! This guy is DRUNK on the vengeful god of the BIBLE....who insists on human sacrifice etc..and drinks blood...sadly no such god exists in SGGS and the NANAKS never promoted any such god.

3. 99.9% of DG is about HINDU MYTHS...devis and devtas avtaars and their lives battles...absolutely NOTHING about the KHALSA..its REHIT...Vasakhi 1699, Battles of GGS, Anandpur sahib, Bhangganni etc etc MILESTONES in GGS life are even mentioned in DG. SO IF the DG doesnt even mention Vasakhi 1699..when the KHALSA was revealed, the First ever Khanda batte dee Pahul ceremony held...HOW can it possibly be relied upon to verify the Khalsa REHIT ?? Are we just supposed to ..."read between the lines..double guess...just accept that when the Khanda is mentioned as being used by DEVI in a battle in Chandi vaar..it means the Khanda battah pahul ??? Khalsa Rehit. TOO farfetched by any circumstance...The DEVI did use a Khanda to slay her enmies.. and also used a Battah to drink their blood...so we can safely assume this ref is to the Vasakhi Pahul ceremony because khand+battah=Khalsa Rehit ??
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

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Gyani Ji I was trying to say The Khalsa was made from Sikhs and that Sikhs are not made from Khalsa,We must assume Max314 has read atleast a line before quoting it but we should not speculate, as he cannot defend himself here. as I copied the quote and he may not be aware of it's use . I agree we should break with convention but the question is what are the conventions of today?
 

Searching

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Searching Ji ,By the same token accepting the word of one Guru is the same as accepting all as they were one Joyt .

Sinner ji
If you believe in all the Guru sahibs then there cannot be any selective accepting. Selective acceptance automatically leads to selective rejection.
We all choose a way we want to live in this world. It may or may not be in accordance with what our Guru Sahibs asked us to follow. But in order to justify our decisions sometimes we even go the extent of saying that Guru Nanak ji and Guru Gobind ji were different which is against the Sikh ideology.

Most people who become mona from being a Sikh is not because they study Sikhism deeply and then come to the conclusion that keeping kesh isn't necessary but they do it because they are manmukhs.

We all are manmukhs . I am a keshdhari Sikh but not a Amritdhari yet and do not plan on becoming one for some time to come. I do a lot of stuff that goes against the teachings of Bani. But there is no attempt at justifying it.
The only justifications is that i am weak. But till the time i don't start rejecting, there is still hope for me.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Sinner veer ji, the Khalsa is simply a "stage" in a Sikh's lifelong journey towards the Akal Purakh. Sikh is a lifelong student...and there is no stage where it can be said..its the end...this is seen in the way SGGS progresses from Page 1 to 1429. So yes you can say that ALL Khalsa are of necessity "SIKHS"..but not all Sikhs are Khalsa YET !! A SIKH who STOPS short of a Khalsa has stopped growing...and thus he has stopped being a SIKH as well.....because a SIKH by the very definition MUST keep on GROWING..learning..studying..adopting...changing...a RIVER must always keep FLOWING...sometimes in flood and sometimes in drought..BUt it never STOPS and when/IF it ever "stops" ..it is either drybed...or has become a pond of still water and still waters begin to stink soon.
In my opinion Gurmatt TODAY is still the exact same because the SGGS hasnt changed so the "conventions" that need "chnaging" dont exist. I dont for a moment buy the notion that a "clean shaven" sikh is the "modern" equivalent and the Khalsa roop sikh is a "fundamentalist/tradtionalist/backward/living in the past..etc etc."
A SIKH is NOT "BORN"...it has to be a Conscious VOLUNTARY decision made by the INDIVIDUAL....and IF you look at ALL the WESTERN BORN who became SIKH...made this a Conscious choice (sometimes opposed by family and friends and loss of family/friends who refuse to accept their change)..a VOLUNTARY CHOICE...to be SIKH..and the VERY FIRST THING they did is STOP SHAVING/cutting hair on head/trimming beards etc...and to begin WEARING the dastaar and Kakaars even though they havent taken PAHUL. No one forced them to do this..nobody gave them inducements or favours simply becasue SIKHS have no majority no govt no raaj no finances strong enough to do such. They came in because of LOVE of GURBANI and the :LIFESTYLE Gurmatt stands for. Latest case is a English Socialite who has done everything young english socialites do...and she adopted the Khalsa Banna/5 kakars, began to learn Gurbani/Gurmukhi attends Gurdwara married a KHALSA SIKH...no dilly dallying.."oh how can i stop clubbing...oh how can i stop shaving my legs..oh how can i give up alcohol..how can i stop sleeping around overnight..i will be "SEHAJDHAREE"...first I will slowly cut down on alcohol..go clubbing 5 days a week instead of 7....i will stop waxing my armpits but not my legs..after all i am "SEHAJDHAREE"..so I got some leeway ??? THESE are the EXACT "arguments" ( i call them DHUCHAR BAZEE ) so called "BORN SIKHS" give for trimming their beards, shaving their armpits or legs, going clubbing..sleeping around.....drinking like fish womanising etc etc....and when confronted claim they are SIKHS of SGGS...sehajdharees...on the way to becoming full blown Khalsa Sikhs..a tall fake claim if any. The INTENTION is not there. These types will ask.."Show me where its written in SGGS...prove to me which Guur wore a dastaar ?? which Guur did this and which guru did that ?? thats just to assuage their own egos that are really hurting inside..a way to justify their actions ( which is not necessary as GURMATT is Voluntary !! so no one should give a hoot...IF NOT for them claiming..NO we are SIKHS..we are followers of Guru Granth Ji and we have the RIGHT to do as we please in a Gurdwara...we are "sehajdjaree Brigade "" This FAKE outlook on Gurmatt is just as BAD...as soemone who out of the blue saw a Baba like Dhadriwallah going by and decided...OH this baba is giving out free kacherras, kirpans and a Kambal...so what the heck..lets Amrtidahree oursleves...what we got to lose...and overnight there is a "amrtidharee"...who like the 5 year old kid who got a firetruck toy as a gift..and he now imagines hes the FIRE BRIGADE...and goes about rushing around the house swinging his arms..give way give way..Fire fire...in the same manner this "Instant" Amrtidharee imagines hes been given the keys to SACH KHAND..and all those he sees trimming beards, clean shaven..etc are going straight to hell...and shoudl be chased out of the Gurdwara !! ( BTW the Kamball incident is a true one i witnessed on a bus in Punjab. I over heard soem GHONAS talking and they were saying that the "Baba Ji" from some dera or other is again giving away free Kamballs in Winter to those who amrti chhakk. 2 of them were laughing and saying..we have already collected 6 kamballs..one each for everyone in the family..no need to buy !!! The others laughed asking..kirpan kangha etc..and they replied..OH the Kirpans we sold to the stall owner at the Gurdawra..kacha haigah..we wear that !!! when torn we will throw it away and get another set at next years amrit sanskaar ceremony. I am afraid..the Vast Majority of "amritdharees" are this type...either those that behave like..NOW i am and now i am NOT..or those that wear their Bannas and imagine they are the GURU !! Genuine types are as rare as Birds Milk.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Sinner Ji, I am sorry the person you quoted isnt here to denfend his writings..BUT I stand by assertion that he hasnt read a line of DG....because what he says is there is NOT.
Its a misconception..that when GURU GOBIND SINGH JI declares that..Khalsa mera roop hai Khaas..Khlaseh mehn karon niwas..etc he is being different. Guur Nanak Ji said the exact same thing to Bhai Lehna Ji..in fact the Name Change form Lehnna to ANGAD signifies so much more than Khalsa Mero roop hai Khaas....Lehnna ji transformed froma SIKH into the LIMB of Guru nanak Ji..ang+ad. Most people MISS the significance of this..BUT its just another Example that EVERYTHING from A-Z..100% of GURMATT SPRINGS form the Fountain Head Founder GURU NANAK...the other successors discarded their own individual names too..to ADOPT the same NANAK nom de plume...and allocated themsleves just NUMBERS to signify their "small ness" beside the Towering Sabh te Waddah Satgur NANAK jin kal raakhi Meri !!! IF one is careful enough to onserve..the Concept of PANJ SIKHS..as the BELOVED begins with GURU NANAK Ji and each successor GURU had his own Special Five Pyaras...the Kakkars in SPIRITUAL FORM also spring from GURU NANAK JI...it takes a BRAVE SIPAHI to be a SANT...and Guur nanak ji faced babar the terriblke marauder..Guru Angad ji faced the naked sword of Humayun son of Babar...Guru Arjun Ji faced the wrath of Jehangir..so on...a COWARDLY "saint" couldnt have accomplished this...in the Modern context we have literally HORDES of SANTS...but the Likes of SANT-SIPAHI Sant jarnail Singh bhindrawallah are as are as Birds Milk !! In those Times it is Bulleh Shah who writes..AGAR NA HOTEH GURU GOBIND SINGH..taan SUNNAT HOTEE SABH KEE !! This revelation coming from a MUSLIM speaks volumes..it was Guur Teg bahdur Jis supreme sacrifice and Guru Gobind Singh jis Khalsa Sikhs Sant Sipahis that stemmed the unstoppable tyranny of Aurengzeb and his successors and put and end to the total islamisation of the sub continent.
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

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Gyani ji thankyou for engaging with me, I'm smaller in all respects but if you permit me may I respond without contention and to allay doubt. I have no doubt that Great Guru Gobind Singh Ji wore a dastaar, as did my grandfather all through the sixties and seventies in the UK.
The question is about conventionality and unorthodoxy as of today. If Guru Ji manifested today he may be very welcoming to those clean faced Sikhs as they are souls like us. I realise you want to be like Guru Gobind Singh Ji but I feel to be like him is to practice sacrifice as he is the embodiment of kurbani. If I look like him physically it is not enough , I'm a firm believer that Gurbani is eternal and so unchanging but as you see today culture and convention are subject to change the only way to survive is like that for a species and that is to adapt.All christians whether orthodox or conventional are both christian and may I go further and say all humanity are learners and so all the world is Sikh too!
 

findingmyway

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Lets talk about tradition;

Sikhs were always viewed as noble. When someone needed help they found the nearest Sikh, easily done due to our visibility. Can this still apply today? YES

Sikhs are known for their integrity. Sikhs were often favoured over other racial groups for certain types of employment. Can this still apply today? YES
I read a wonderful story (maybe from a blog, I can't remember), about a white Sikh convert who kept dastaar applying for medical school. She was accepted immediately as her appearance told her interviewers that she was a person with discipline and compassion-both qualities essential for the job.

When help is needed, families advise their children to go to a Gurdwara as Sikhs will always help. I have experienced this attitude firsthand from Hindu's who emigrated from India to Australia/NZ.

The tradition is to maintain visibility so that we cannot run away and hide when righteous action is required. Is that a worthwhile tradition? YES. Is it a tradition that can be maintained in the modern world? YES. Is it a tradition that stops you doing anything? NO. Is it a tradition that discredits us? NO. Is a tradition that is not in line with Gurmat philosophy? NO.

If you can't be brave with your experience, how will you have the strength to stand up when required? Rather than conforming, we should be making mroe efforts in educating so that respect is restored to what it was. We can only educate if we are living it!!

If I look like him physically it is not enough
Agreed. However, completely rejecting the physical aspects as it doesn't suit the follower, makes that person as big a hypocrite as those who have the physical but the not the gyaan. Being a Sikh is about learning about it all and then living it at your own pace. If you reject half of Sikhism (even if not followed) then how can you be comfortable with being a Sikh? Aren't you being judgmental to someone who chooses the appearance, when accusing them of judging you whether they do or not? Aren't you showing non acceptance and displayng the same behaviour you are condemning? no-one says you MUST cut hair but to deny thats it is a part of Sikhi is bigoted. To force people to conform whether that be to believers or non-believers is depressing!

All christians whether orthodox or conventional are both christian and may I go further and say all humanity are learners and so all the world is Sikh too!
True but how many are willing to stand up and be counted? How many are willing to be honest to the world about who they are inside? How many are willing to fight (not necessarily with violence) for what they believe in and what is important to them?
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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ALL Christians...orthodx..etc..are keeping totally SILENT...while their Churches are being raided...their Bibles confiscated/stored in warehouses for years..and then STAMPED and serailsied before release...they follow their Jesus policy..if someone SLAPS you..turn the other cheek....if someone kicks you....turn over and invite another...despite having a BILLION Followers ISLAMIC burqa wearers keep silent...while SIKHS stand up and be counted and FIGHT for THEM ALL..a MINORITY fighting for the rights of the Majority with over 40 Govts in UNO..the Christians with over 200 Govts and the vatican State...bend over backwards...DAILY the TINY MINORITY SIKHS are in the NEWS..fighting for dastaar..fighting for Kirpan..fighting for DIGNITY and being COUNTED..despite having the Worlds Largest DEMOCRACY and its Embassies worldwide SABOTAGING them, campaigning against them..doing everything possible to derail them..paying MEDIA like Kim Bolan to write RUBBISH daily in the Press, supporting bigots like ojal dusanjh to keep harping on Sikhs as TERRORISTS...etc etc...SIKHS manage to stand TALL and DISTICT. Thats the Beauty of SIKH..Banna and bani....Those who want to cut hair and blend in..do so.No bodys stopping YOU....BUT STOP denying the others their rights and claiming whats NOT YOURS. STOP Sabotaging them...You are free to be ANYTHING..but not SIKH.........NOT until you accept the RESPONSIBILITY.No offense meant or taken.
1. A "Sikh" who claims its Ok to cut hair/trim.and still be a "Sikh"......is doing the other a serious disservice becasue he then has to struggle harder to convince others why he cant cut and trim.. A "sikh" who claims its not necessary to go to Gurdwara...cuts the rights of another sikh who wants to go to Gurdawara...Muslims who DONT wnat to attend Mosque on Friday...DONT CLAIM its OK for a Muslim to skip mosque..Muslims who dont wnat to be circumcised..dont claim its OK.....why cant "Sikhs" be like that...you dont want to stand up and be counted..FINE..SIT DOWN and SHUT UP...becasue you are causing others trouble..
 

Tejwant Singh

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Findingmyway ji and Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

Both of you have taken the words right out from my mouth. I remember after my first post here on page 2 where I explained why the Sikhi traditions and look are important and how they are intertwined with our Sikh history and along with the Gurmat values given to us in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, one of the responders mentioned that only an Amrtidhari would say that which put a smile on my face.:redturban:

To be very honest, I have no idea why those who are against the Sikhi look are so adamant about their own 'unlook' and some are even against those who have the Sikhi saroop. They call them old fashioned which makes me giggle because little do they know how many successful Keshadhari/Amritdhari Sikhs there are in the fashion business. Pun Intended. And there are many Keshadhari Sikhs who are in executive positions all around the world.

The head of Mastercard is a Keshadhari Sikh for example. ' House of Waris' is a big high end fashion house and Waris is a Keshadhari Sikh, and the line goes on and on.

It matters not if one is a Keshadhari or an Amritdhari. It seems, there is some lingering insecurity within those who are for the Sikhi 'unlook' that makes them decide that Sikhi look is not an asset but a negative thing which would close many doors for them rather than opening them.

How wrong they are!. I wish they knew that. My Sikhi look has opened so many doors around the world where ever I lived or visited then my 'unlook' would have had I had that and I am certain about that.

So, I can only reiterate to them to shed their insecurity and embrace the door opener.

I would like them to read the following:

1.http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/inspirational-stories/28767-unfair-discrimination.html

2.http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/26993-the-lone-ranger.html

On a side note, this coming Sunday, my son Trimaan and I would be participating in a 9/11 Interfaith Remembrance day being held at UNLV- the local University.

We will be the only two turbaned Sikhs participating on the stage along with other faiths.

Tejwant Singh
 

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kds1980

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It matters not if one is a Keshadhari or an Amritdhari. It seems, there is some lingering insecurity within those who are for the Sikhi 'unlook' that makes them decide that Sikhi look is not an asset but a negative thing which would close many doors for them rather than opening them.

It depends on what career you want to choose
May be the following guy may not agree with you
http://www.tellychakkar.com/stardiary/when-i-cut-my-hair-pursue-modelling

And the people who don't know who is he let me tell,there is popular show " Shobha somnath ki" a historical cum fictious serial about destruction of somnath temple and this guy is playing the meaty role of Ghaznavi in that
 
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