- Jan 31, 2011
Repeating a word is one of initial ways in shabad surat aspect of divine. It's not so much repeating a word is problem, its repeating a word with no receptivity like robotic parrot is a problem with no love and people making out to be all or end all is a problem. It just one of aids which helps mind more focused on shabad-resonance(naad) which takes one consciousness to higher reality as gurbani talks about one of aspect of divine and creation-everything came from shabad resosance(naad) will go back there eventually. These things are not meant to be conceptually debated but rather tried yourself. If it resonates with you thats great if it does not thats great too.
I love this, this is great, see this fella has the hang of it, he has embraced every point I have asked all of the meditation camp to embrace, which is please try and be less definitive. Allow me to highlight the areas which I feel show respect to others.
I can read something interesting without feeling I am doing something wrong in my own pursuit of Sikhi.
Gurbani purifies mind as I strongly believe in gurbani is of 4th dimension-Turiya if one connects to gurbani after adapting good attributes with openness, receptivity it purifies mind but if one is approaching gurbani with their egoic mind conditioning shield around then one may try life times nothing will happen.
Well I don't believe that, but know what, if I ever feel the need to pursue the 4th dimension, you'll be top of my list to find out more (sorry to clarify, this is sincere not sarcasm)
Dogmatic means are confined idiloized un-natural means, mind conditioning be it wrapping our head to certain ideology is un-natural. Off course you cannot still mind by un-natural means or by force. One can still mind(Achal-nature of mind as described in gurbani) by love, devotion, intuitive gyan-wsidom, openness, receptivity, jaap concentration/abidance on our real self (Man tu jot saroop hai, apna mool painchain ||)
see, this fella knows the difference between dogma and spirituality, he is as scathing of dogma as I am!
We need to look at naam jaap as different aspects of divine, different stages in divine. For eg- doing vichar is quite higher stage where there is vichar-introspection and listening inner voice within themselves not just conceptually or intellectually with others only but via inner unconditioned intuitive consciousness because conceptual/intellectual/conditioned mind has limitations.
Well, again I don't buy this, but it does not sound impossible, I can see the logic behind it.
Listening inner voice via dyan of shabad gyan/abidance in our unconditioned consciouness(surat) is much more intimate, deeper and profound its revealing of our true nature, its much more profound than confining inner voice following -honesty be humble etc. These good actions/attributes which are supposed to be followed from very beginning before when one starts enter in sikhi.
You write in a humble way that almost makes me want to try this.
But confining sikhi to only following basic human attributes such as honesty, be humble does not do full justice of great gurbani revelation of ultimate nature of all of us... confining anything its unnatural its conditioning itself. In fact, we do not need to try so hard with our egoic conditioning to adapt honest, and be humble. In deeper exploration of sikhi, one finds right actions/speech rises effortlessly risen automatically at right time/right place from directly ultimate divine nature thats beauty of our universal intuitive intelligence its does not rely on conditioned response from conditioned mind which is confined/always have agenda to self egoic preservation. I am not against right actions/right speech- honesty, be humble, stop exploitations. The main question is from absolute point of view- whos is doing? If egoic conditioning does it, since its confined its seems dogmatic/unnatural but if its natural spontaneous response from our true nature then its much more profound and deepening as our true nature does not have much attachment to outcome for eg- love,humility, compassion, honesty risen from our real nature its just as is without any agenda/strategizing/attachment by confined conditioned mind. Our true nature just loves, is embodiment of compassion thats all, its unconditioned its NOT subject of conditioned circumstances.
ok, this is pretty definitive, but nonetheless your passion shines through, it is not written to make everyone else feel stupid or left out, its humble but passionate, and to boot, yeah it makes sense, its not for me, I have my own reasons and issues, but its interesting.
It's been long discussion. I will retire from this thread now. All i would say, ultimately these deep spiritual discussions are best left for one own experience/deep exploration. Conceptual discussion has limitations. Conceptual mind/conditioned mind simply cannot understand whats beyond conceptual mind/conditioned mind.
excellent post! informative, interesting and quite clear it is a personal point of view, thank you