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The Form Of God Let Others Contest. My Formless God Is The Best

Nov 17, 2006
Perth, western Australia
There is lot of misunderstanding about the form of God. Some know that God is formless yet worship Him in various forms.
OUr Hindu brothers worshiip Him in the form of idols. They have huge & bertiful mandirs & installed moorties made of stone.I am not criticizing them.If this gives them peace & feeling of oneness let this be so.
Guru Nanak sahib ji says !QwipAw nw jwey kIqw nw hoey Awpy Awp inrMjn soey( jpujI)
God resides in our heart not out side.
Guru Teg Bahadar ji says ' Kahe re ban khojan jaee. saran Nivasi sada alepa tohi sang smaee. puhp madh jio bas basat hai mukar mahen jese chhaee, Tese hi Har base nirantar Ghat hi Khojo bhai. This is very important advise. we are looking God every where but we dont see Him. May be we see Him but we dont find Him. we shall find Him in our heart.Ghat hi khojo bhai.
All massengers of God were sent to give this message that we should look inside.but we are looking in other directions.
we have made our spirtual masters as our God. we have made our holi scriptures our God. These scriptures are ment to lead you to go inside as guru Teg Bahaadar ji has don in His gurbani,
Guru Gobind Singh ji never said that i am a God. Jo mujh ko parmesar uchre narak kund me pare yet many of us consider Him God.
God is formless. He does not permeate only in human form. All that is is God.
He is the light of the sun,moon & the stars.His light permeates in all the things & all the beings.
God is an energy. a force a power a current of life a viberation,
God han no gender.
He resides in His Name or Naam. you can remeber Him by any Name & He will come & appear in your heart. You can feel Him as you feel your thirst or hunger , as you feel your pain.
Roop na Rekh na Rang Kichh Trehu Gun te Prabh Bhin Tiseh Bujhae Nankw jis hove so Parsn(sukhmani).
To feel God Go inside. When you go inside you will get insight & see Him with your inner eyes i.e the eyes of your feelings with which you see your thirst & hunger & paiy else can see what you will see. As doctor can not see your pain but pain is a reality Your doctor trussts you & gives you medicine.But we dont trust our Guru whie Gur says God resides in our heart. If we dont have faith in what guru says How can we see God.
A doctor can trust you without seeing your pain with outer eyes yet we dont trust our Guru to have a Darshan of God from inside,
I tell you this: If you go inside & meditate on Gods virtues & blessings autometically your inner self will utter these words WHAHEGURU OR SATNAM OR SATNAM SRI WAHEGURU. FOR OTHERS IT WOULD BE ALLAH, OR RAM OR GOD OR LORD. Whatever name you have assigned th Him.
when these words are spoken by your inner self they will not be from your throat but from your deep inside.
This is the proof that you have had the Darshan of formless God. It will give you the feeling of peace, joy & happiness that you dont experience in outside world.
As i said God resides in His Name or Naam you will experience this viamad or ecstacy when Naam will be uttered by your tongue.
I am reproducing below my response to another post written under the topic Hair.This will give you more clarity about formless God

ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮੁਖੁ ਮਾਸਾਰਾ ਕਹਨੁ ਜਾਈ ਖੇਲੁ ਤੁਹਾਰਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਰੇਣ ਸੰਤ ਚਰਨਾਰਾ ੪੫
बरनु चिहनु नाही मुखु न मासारा ॥ कहनु न जाई खेलु तुहारा ॥ नानक रेण संत चरनारा ॥२॥२॥४५॥
Baran cẖihan nāhī mukẖ na māsārā. Kahan na jā▫ī kẖel ṯuhārā. Nānak reṇ sanṯ cẖarnārā. ||2||2||45||

he has no color, no sign, no mouth and no beard. I cannot describe Your play. Nanak is the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||2||2||45||
ਬਰਨੁ = ਰੰਗਚਿਹਨੁ = ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨਮਾਸਾਰਾ = ਦਾੜ੍ਹੀ ਰੇਣ = ਧੂੜ

ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਤੇਰਾ ਰਚਿਆ ਜਗਤ-ਖੇਲ ਬਿਆਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਹ ਕੋਈ ਰੰਗ ਹੈ, ਨਾਹ ਕੋਈ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨ ਹੈ, ਨਾਹ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੋਈ ਮੂੰਹ ਹੈ, ਨਾਹ ਕੋਈ ਦਾੜ੍ਹੀ ਹੈਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! (ਆਖ-ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਦਰ ਤੋਂ ਤੇਰੇ) ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਚਰਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਧੂੜ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ੪੫
My dear honourable members of spn forum ji
Read this statement of sahib sri guru Arjan sahib ji in Rag Suhi p 746 & carefully consider what Guru ji has written.
God has no sign , no mouth & no beard.
We try to think that God has SOHNE NAK & LAMRE VALA. All this is our imagination. It is not the reality. It is not the fact. It is fiction. Why don’t we put all our faith in NIRANKAR?
Why don’t we go within & meditate on formless.?
You can imagine any form & if you love him from your heart God will appear to you exactly in that form to convince you that here I Am. God is formless but He can take any form that you visualise.This is the reason God does not appear in any one physical form.
All the physical forms of this physical world, the world of duality are His forms only. Srb BUq Awp vrqwrw srb nYn Awp pyKnhwrw. Sgl smgrI jw kw qnw Awpn js Awp hI sunw[(suKmnI) jo dIsY so qyrw rUp[ shs qv nYn nnw nYn hY qoih ko, shs mUrq nnw eyk qohI[He is pervading & permeating in every thing & every being.He is dwelling every whiere. There is no place where God is not.

With love
Mahanbir Singh


Mar 12, 2009
THEOLOGICAL GOD/ਧਾਰਮਕ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ


Theological God is rather an elusive conception and it becomes difficult in discussing this question, to know what one is discussing? It is an Absolute Principle and It applies to every thing (Sargun) and some thing in terms of itself cannot be defined (Nirgun). One must set aside personal prejudices or bias and keep an open mind to understand the Principle. God and spirit are both out side the limitations of time and space. Prejudiced individuals see only what fits those prejudices.

Q. Do you believe in God?

A. It depends what you mean by the term. One must keep an open mind and be receptive despite what issues arise?

The absolute Principle (God) is not a, thing, sound or vibration, not divisible, not diluted or augmented, has no partner or complement, has no form or qualities;

ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮੁਖੁ ਨ ਮਾਸਾਰਾ ॥

Baran cẖihan nāhī mukẖ na māsārā.

Akal Purkh has no color, no sign, no mouth and no beard -----Guru Arjan, Raag Suhi, AGGS, Page, 746-10

Akal Purkh is every where(ਨਿਰੰਤਰ) all the time (Immanent & Transcendent) and forever with out any relation to time and space.

ਬਨ ਮਹਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਤ੍ਰਿਣ ਮਹਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਉਦਾਸਾਏ ॥ ਦੰਡਧਾਰ ਜਟਧਾਰੈ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਵਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਤੀਰਥਾਏ ॥ ਸੰਤਸੰਗਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਮਨ ਮਾਏਂ ॥ ਊਭ ਪਇਆਲ ਸਰਬ ਮਹਿ ਪੂਰਨ ਰਸਿ ਮੰਗਲ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ ॥ ਜੋਗ ਭੇਖ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੈ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਜਤਿ ਜੰਗਮ ਕਾਪੜਾਏ ॥ ਤਪੀ ਤਪੀਸੁਰ ਮੁਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਨਟ ਨਾਟਿਕ ਨਿਰਤਾਏ ॥ ਚਹੁ ਮਹਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਖਟ ਮਹਿ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਦਸ ਅਸਟੀ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਾਏ ॥ ਸਭ ਮਿਲਿ ਏਕੋ ਏਕੁ ਵਖਾਨਹਿ ਤਉ ਕਿਸ ਤੇ ਕਹਉ ਦੁਰਾਏ ॥ ਅਗਹ ਅਗਹ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਨਹ ਕੀਮ ਕੀਮ ਕੀਮਾਏ ॥ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਕੈ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਜਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਪਰਗਟੀਆਏ ॥

Ban mėh pekẖi▫o ṯariṇ mėh pekẖi▫o garihi pekẖi▫o uḏāsā▫e. Ḏandḏẖār jatḏẖārai pekẖi▫o varaṯ nem ṯīrthā▫e. Saṯsang pekẖi▫o man mā▫eʼn. Ūbẖ pa▫i▫āl sarab mėh pūran ras mangal guṇ gā▫e. Jog bẖekẖ sanni▫āsai pekẖi▫o jaṯ jangam kāpṛā▫e. Ŧapī ṯapīsur mun mėh pekẖi▫o nat nātik nirṯā▫e. Cẖahu mėh pekẖi▫o kẖat mėh pekẖi▫o ḏas astī simmriṯā▫e. Sabẖ mil eko ek vakẖānėh ṯa▫o kis ṯe kaha▫o ḏurā▫e. Agah agah be▫anṯ su▫āmī nah kīm kīm kīmā▫e. Jan Nānak ṯin kai bal bal jā▫ī▫ai jih gẖat pargatī▫ā▫e.

I have seen Akal Purkh in the woods, in the fields, in the household, and in renunciation. I have seen It as a Yogi carrying His staff, with matted hair, fasting, making vows, and visiting sacred shrines of pilgrimage. I have seen It in the Society of the Saints, within my own mind, in the sky, in the nether regions of the underworld, pervading and permeating in everything. With love and joy, I sing Its Glorious Praises. I have seen It among the hermits, the ascetics, the celibates, the wandering hermits and the wearers of patched coats. I have seen It among the men of severe self-discipline, the silent sages, the actors, dramas and dances. I have seen It in the four Vedas, in the six Shaastras, in the eighteen Puraanas and the Simritees as well. All together, they declare that there is only One Akal Purkh. So tell me, from whom is It hidden? Unfathomable and Inaccessible, It is our Infinite Akal Purkh and Master; Its Value is beyond valuation. Servant Nanak is a sacrifice, a sacrifice to those, within whose heart It is revealed. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Bhairo, AGGS, Page, 1139

ਅਦਿਸਟੁ ਦਿਸੈ ਤਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥

Aḏisat ḏisai ṯā kahi¬ā jā¬ė.

If the Unseen Akal Purkh could be seen, then It could be described. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri Guarary, AGGS, Page, 22-12

It is One and unity, determines every thing, comes before every thing, and is the law of every thing being blind but Its justice is evenhanded. The ancient pagan Greek philosopher Plato said that the highest power was the Good Itself, that transcendent principle by whose light we could tell the difference between good and bad, right and wrong, appropriate and inappropriate. The Primary Good is good, pure and simple, not by virtue of connection with some thing else, because there is nothing else above it. All things are below It, and receives good from It. It is further more, an agent, through Its action is intellect, life, and the self, and every thing in which there is life and intelligence. The Primary Good, therefore, is that which has no opposite. God is, (Truth Itself and formless), which is why people can't get it until they get honest with themselves.

ਬੋਲੈ ਭਰਥਰਿ ਸਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ॥ਪਰਮ ਤੰਤ ਮਹਿ ਰੇਖ ਨ ਰੂਪੁ ॥

Bolai bẖarthar saṯ sarūp. Param ṯanṯ meh rėkẖ na rūp.

Says Bhart'har (ਗੋਰਖ ਦਾ ਚੇਲਾ, ਇਕ ਜੋਗੀ ਜੋ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਿਆ) God is the embodiment of Truth; the supreme essence of reality has no shape or form. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 953-3

Sikhism rejects the idea of a personal God or an extra-cosmic anthropomorphic God. The God of theology is a bundle of contradictions and a logical impossibility as It is Absolute (Avgat-ਅਵਿਗਤ) and Infinite (Apaar-ਅਪਾਰ). Guru Nanak elucidates God with an open Oorhaa (ਓ), and describes the word in Raag Asa;

ਊੜੈ ਉਪਮਾ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕੀਜੈ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Ūṛai upmā ṯā kī kījai jā kā anṯ na pā­i­ā.

Ooraa: Sing the Praises of the One whose limit cannot be foound.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 432-12

Sikhism believes in a Divine Principle, Universal in nature and the root (ਮੂਲ) of all, from which all proceeds and with in which all is absorbed at the end of the great cycle of Being as expressed by Guru Ramdas in Raag Asa;

ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਭ ਉਪਾਈ ਜੀ ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਿਰਜਿ ਸਭ ਗੋਈ ॥ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਕਰਤੇ ਕੇ ਜੀ ਜੋ ਸਭਸੈ ਕਾ ਜਾਣੋਈ ॥

Ŧuḏẖ āpė sarisat sabẖ upā¬ī jī ṯuḏẖ āpė siraj sabẖ go¬ī. Jan Nānak guṇ gāvai karṯė kė jī jo sabẖsai kā jāṇo¬ī.

You Yourself created the entire universe, and having fashioned it, You Yourself shall destroy it all. Servant Nanak sings the Glorious Praises of the Dear Creator, the Knower of all. -----Guru Ram Das, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 11-13

Creation is a process, which is unfolding according to the Absolute Divine Principle. It is of utmost importance to have a correct intellectual conception by the individual of the “Supreme Akal Purkh”, for illogical and erroneous conception are capable of misleading and keeping in dark people who otherwise by their intuitions would be on the right track. An individual is entitled to define his Higher Power of his own understanding but on the other hand a false conception of God is responsible for spiritual ignorance.

ਅਸੰਖ ਮੂਰਖ ਅੰਧ ਘੋਰ ॥

Asaʼnkẖ mūrakẖ anḏẖ gẖor.

Countless fools are blinded by ignorance. -----Japji, AGGS, Page, 4

ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਮਾਨੁਖੁ ਭਇਆ ਜੋ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੋ ਲੋਰੈ ॥ ਰੈਣਿ ਅੰਧਾਰੀ ਕਾਰੀਆ ਕਵਨ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਭੋਰੈ ॥

Agi¬ānī mānukẖ bẖa¬i¬ā jo nāhī so lorai. Raiṇ anḏẖārī kārī¬ā kavan jugaṯ jiṯ bẖorai.

Humanity is in spiritual ignorance; people see things that do not exist. The night is dark and gloomy; how will the morning dawn? -----Guru Arjan, AGGS, Page, 212-11

Thus the Universe itself is unfolding out of its own essence beyond the reach of our limited senses. It is a waste of time in arguing with people who do not want to be convinced or ridicule every thing, which is new to their limited outlook regarding God/Higher Power. The message is for those---- who want to know and are seeking something that will solve their doubts (duality) and remove their difficulties. Guru Arjan prays in humility for Lord’ in Raag Asa;

ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਾ ਮਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ ਥੋਰੀ ॥ ਬਿਨਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਓਟ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੋਰੀ ॥

Kicẖẖū na jānā maṯ mėrī thorī. Binvaṯ Nānak ot parabẖ ṯorī.

I know nothing, and my intellect is inadequate. Prays Nanak, O God, You are my only Support. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 388-3

He, who sees the Eternal existing alike in imperishable and perishable things, sees indeed. So God is every where, in every atom of the visible and invisible Cosmos as a Power of evolution and involution as expressed by Guru Arjan in Raag Gauri and Farid Slokes and Kabir in Raag Parbhati;

ਸੂਖਮ ਅਸਥੂਲ ਸਗਲ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥

Sūkẖam asthūl sagal bẖagvān.

God exists in all subtle and gross matter (ਨਿਰਗੁਣ & ਸਰਗੁਣ).-----Guru Arjan, Thiti Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 299-17

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਖਾਲਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਲਕ ਵਸੈ ਰਬ ਮਾਹਿ ॥

Farīḏā kẖālak kẖalak meh kẖalak vasai rab māhi.

Farid, the Creator is in the Creation, and the Creation abides in God. -----Guru Arjan, Sloke Farid, AGGS, Page, 1381-17

ਲੋਗਾ ਭਰਮਿ ਨ ਭੂਲਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥

Logā bẖaram na bẖūlahu bẖā¬ī. Kẖālik kẖalak kẖalak meh kẖālik pūr rahi¬o sarab ṯẖāʼn¬ī.

O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt. The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places.-----Kabir, Raag Parbhati Bhibhas, AGGS, Page 1350-1

The Eternal is the source of everlasting life, power, and wisdom through its manifestations in the world. Some call him hypothetical personal Creator-- to whom they petition—for the fulfillment of personal questionable desires. This Eternal power teaches that right action is the truest supplication for the benefit desired. Aristotle said that there is Something above the substance of the firmament, nothing is greater than It and there is no way to quantify or measure It. It is beyond change in any manner or mode. There is no limit to Its power. Therefore It performs Its acts outside of time, being by nature effective and thus always in action, with out Its actions affecting It. Nothing comes from It in a state of potential, rather things come from It in action, while Its potential always pervades the universe.The present age is learning to apply scientific method to find that truth about the Eternal Wisdom.

There is no absolute scientific proof of the presence of The Absolute Principle or the Infinite God; henceforth the Lord’s subtle essence cannot be obtained by any one. Religion and science will always clash due to perceived insults to the research and rationality by fundamentalists and non progressive individuals. Spirituality was the domain of the faith but lately science has developed with close alignment. Science ends, when reason fails and then spirituality takes over. God cannot be completely contained with in nature and therefore God’s existence is out side the science’s ability to weigh in. Scientists are not blind believers but make a critical analysis of the evidence, quite opposite to the religious approach based on blind faith and belief. On the other hand because something is vastly improbable, we need a God to explain it. Since we are profoundly ignorant about certain things we need to work on them like understanding the physiology of conscience to reduce human suffering of pain and depression.

ਹਾਹਾ ਹੋਤ ਹੋਇ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਾ ॥ਜਬ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਤਬਹਿ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਾ ॥ਹੈ ਤਉ ਸਹੀ ਲਖੈ ਜਉ ਕੋਈ ॥ਤਬ ਓਹੀ ਉਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥

Hāhā hoṯ ho¬ė nahī jānā, Jab hī ho¬ė ṯabeh man mānā, Hai ṯa¬o sahī lakẖai ja¬o ko¬ī, Ŧab ohī uho ėhu na ho¬ī.

HAHA: God exists, but also is not known to exist. When Akal Purkh is known to exist, then the mind is pleased and appeased. Of course the God exists, if one could only understand It. Then, alone It exists, and not this mortal being. -----Kabir, Gauri Bawan Akhari, AGGS, Page, 342-16 & 17

The Primary Good (God) does exist as It is the cause of causes and It does not cease to exist. The secondary good is what the Primary Good has created, which is intellect. The tertiary good is the self with its arrangement winding up in bodies.

The forces and qualities of Mother Nature are not blind and unintelligent they may appear so when viewed by our physical senses but in the depth of the thought they are alive and conscious. It is not irreverent to say that God acts through some form of energy (heat/electricity/magnetic/some form of waves). In history at one time people were persecuted for making scientific discoveries.

God is a sum of forces of physical nature higher than the real Self. The Higher Self is far higher than ordinary conception of God, which is limited by the imperfections of mind that imagines and fathoms It. When man’s nature becomes so sublimated that he can rise beyond thought to a higher and fuller state of consciousness and becomes enlightened with the Divine knowledge, it is then that he may stultify the nature of that “Higher Power”. The energy/force/conscience source of life in an individual is a part of the same.

ਜਿਨੀ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਤਮੁ ਸੋਈ ॥ ਏਕੋ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਿਰਖੁ ਹੈ ਫਲੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਹੋਈ ॥

Jinī āṯam cẖīni­ā parmāṯam so­ī Ėko amriṯ birakẖ hai fal amriṯ ho­ī..

Those who understand their own Higher Self are themselves the Supreme Akal Purkh. The One Akal Purkh is the tree of ambrosial nectar, which bears the ambrosial fruit. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 421-16


God cannot be defined because It applies to every thing and can not be measured, Atula, Atolak (ਅਤੁਲ, ਅਤੋਲਕ.). The words such as Agochar Ached (ਅਛੇਦ), Agaadh (ਅਗਾਧ), Adisatt/Alakh(ਅਦਿਸਟ/ਅਲਖ), Agocher (ਅਗੋਚਰ), Agum (ਅਗਮੁ), Ajooni (ਆਜੋਨੀ/ਅਜੋਨੀ), Akal Moorat (ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤ), Akhut (ਅਖੁਟ), Alipaari/Alpana-(ਅਲਪਾਰੀ/ਅਲਪਨਾ), Anaath (ਅਨਾਥ), Apaah (ਅਪਾਹ), Alpat (ਅਲਿਪਤੁ/ਅਲੇਪ), Apaar (ਅਪਾਰ), Aprasa (ਅਪਰਸ), Athaha (ਅਥਾਹ), Itthrha (ਇਠੜਾ), Karta Purkh (ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖ), Nirbhau (ਨਿਰਭਉ), Nirvair (ਨਿਰਵੈਰ), Niranjan (ਨਿਰੰਜਨ), Nirankar (ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ), and Saibhung (ਸੈਭੰ) have been used in Gurbani to express Its Unfathomable nature. Those who fathom It cannot behold God and those who behold God do not fathom It. God in incomprehensible and cannot be anthropomorphized since It is Infinite and hence cannot be squeezed into a finite human body.

ਹੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਊ ਬੂਝਨਹਾਰੋ ਜਾਨੈ ਕਵਨੁ ਭਤਾ ॥ਸਿਵ ਬਿਰੰਚਿ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਮੋਨਿ ਜਨ ਗਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾਹਿ ਗਤਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਅਗਮ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਕਥਾ ॥ਸੁਨੀਐ ਅਵਰ ਅਵਰ ਬਿਧਿ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਬਕਨ ਕਥਨ ਰਹਤਾ ॥ਆਪੇ ਭਗਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਤਾ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਜਤ੍ਰ ਕਤਾ ॥

Hai nāhī ko¬ū būjẖanhāro jānai kavan bẖaṯā. Siv birancẖ ar sagal mon jan geh na sakāhi gaṯā. Parabẖ kī agam agāḏẖ kathā. Sunī¬ai avar avar biḏẖ bujẖī¬ai bakan kathan rahṯā. Āpė bẖagṯā āp su¬āmī āpan sang raṯā. Nānak ko parabẖ pūr rahi¬o hai pėkẖi¬o jaṯar kaṯā.

No one understands the Akal Purkh, who can understand God’s plans? Shiva, Brahma and all the silent sages could not understand the state of the Higher Power. God's sermon is profound and unfathomable. God is heard to be one thing, but is understood to be something else again; God is beyond description and explanation. God Itself is the devotee, Supreme and Master; is imbued with Itself. Nanak's God is pervading and permeating everywhere; wherever one looks he finds him there. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gujri, AGGS, Page, 498

Every individual has the liberty to understand his/her Higher Power according to his/her understanding and contact It in any way he/she likes IMHO.

Virinder S. Grewal
Nov 17, 2006
Perth, western Australia
Re: For Form of God Let Others Contest. My Formless God Is the Best.

My dear Dr. V.S Grewal sahib,
Could you kindly enlighten what is divin spirit?
Could you describe what is the nature of God?
Could You tell me how to have friendship with God in you do not Know Him?
Guru Arjan sahib says ' I hve dosqIwith Him. Cant we all have the same kind of Friendship with Him?

hir ieksy nwl mY dosqI hir ieksy nwl mYN rMg[hir ieko myrw sjxo , hir ieksy nwl mYN sMg[ hir ieksY nwl mYN gosty m muhu mYlw kry nw BMg[pMnw 958


Mar 12, 2009
Re: For Form of God Let Others Contest. My Formless God Is the Best.

Dear Mahabir Ji,

Here are my two cents on the subject;

ਆਦਿ ਮਧਿ ਜੋ ਅੰਤਿ ਨਿਬਾਹੈ ॥ਸੋ ਸਾਜਨੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਚਾਹੈ ॥

Aad MaDh Jo Ant Nibaahai, So Saajan Mayraa Man Chaahai.

My mind longs for that Friend, who shall stand by me in the beginning, in the middle and in the end. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 240-10

PARMATMA AND ATMA/ਪਰਮਾਤਮੁ/ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਅਤੇ ਆਤਮਾ


God has been remembered by many names and Parmatm (ਪਰਮਾਤਮੁ) is one of them, which is an incomprehensable metaphysical creative force/energy, beyond human comprehension. The energy/force/ ਆਤਮਾ/soul/conscience or what ever one’s understanding of it is a source of life in an individual, which is a part of the Primal Power/Will (ਕਲਾ).

ਜਿਨੀ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਤਮੁ ਸੋਈ ॥ ਏਕੋ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਿਰਖੁ ਹੈ ਫਲੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਹੋਈ ॥

Jinī āṯam cẖīni­ā parmāṯam so­ī Ėko amriṯ birakẖ hai fal amriṯ ho­ī.

Those who understand their own Higher Self are themselves the same Primal Force. The One Akal Purkh is the tree of ambrosial nectar, which bears the ambrosial fruit. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 421-16


Atma (ਆਤਮਾ) is self (Conscience).

Parmatma (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ) - (Param + Atma) is Higher Self.

God has been remembered by many names and any name used with devotional love is in order IMHO. Parmatma word has been used once in Sabd Guru by Guru Nanak as Paratam (ਪਰਮਾਤਮੁ), while Atma comes many times. Parmatma manifests in an individual as the light or Higher Self veiled by the lower self (ਹਉਮੈ) and i.e. how we all are related to each other, former being the common denominator.

ਸੰਤ ਹੇਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਾਰੇ ॥ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨੈ ਸੁ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥

Sanṯ heṯ parabẖ ṯaribẖavaṇ ḏẖāre. Āṯam cẖīnai so ṯaṯ bīcẖārė.

For the sake of the Saints, God has established the three worlds. One, who understands his own conscience, contemplates the essence of reality. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 224-10

ਏਕ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨੰ ਸਰਬ ਦੇਵਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵਾ ਤ ਆਤਮਾ ॥ਆਤਮਾ ਬਾਸੁਦੇਵਸ੍ਯ੍ਯਿ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਭੇਉ ॥ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਦੇਉ ॥

Ėk krisanʼn sarab ḏėvā ḏėv ḏėvā ṯa āṯmā. Āṯmā bāsḏėvsi­y jė ko jāṇai bẖė­o. Nānak ṯā kā ḏās hai so­ī niranjan ḏė­o.

The Supreme Akal Purkh is God for all gods, beings and their Self. This Self is all pervasive, should one realize this secret. Nanak is slave of one with this realization; in whom is manifest the immaculate God. -----Guru Angad, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 469-15

God has been described as Nirgun (without attributes) and Sargun (with attributes) and is infinite in nature. It is clear that an infinite thing cannot be substantially composite, for this would mean that infinity is made up of the union or addition of finite parts -- a plain contradiction in terms. The following hymns describe attributable and non-attributable nature of that metaphysical energy or force;

ਸਰਗੁਣ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਥਾਪੈ ਨਾਉ ॥ਦੁਹ ਮਿਲਿ ਏਕੈ ਕੀਨੋ ਠਾਉ ॥

Sarguṇ nirguṇ thāpai nā¬o, Ḏuh mil ėkai kīno ṯẖā¬o.

Attributed and unattributed are the two terms devised for Akal Purkh. Both in unisome formulate one reality. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 387-18

ਰਾਜ ਜੋਬਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੂੰ ਧਨੀ ॥ਤੂੰ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਤੂੰ ਸਰਗੁਨੀ ॥

Rāj joban parabẖ ṯūʼn ḏẖanī.Ŧūʼn nirgun ṯūʼn Sarguni.

Before the creation Akal Purkh was Nirgun (unseen or formless/ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ) after creation, It is perceived in physical form in Nature. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 211-7

ਨਿਰਗੁਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਸਰਗੁਨੁ ਭੀ ਓਹੀ ॥

Nirgun āp sargun bhī ohī.

Akal Purkh Itself is absolute and unrelated; and is also involved and related.-----Guru Arjan, Gauri Sukhmani, AGGS, Page, 287-17

ਨਿਰਗੁਣੁ ਸਰਗੁਣੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਕੋਈ ਹੈ ਜੀਉ ਆਣਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਜੀਉ ॥

Nirguṇ sarguṇ har har mėrā ko¬ī hai jī¬o āṇ milāvai jī¬o.

My God Akal Purkh, is absolute and related, unmanifest and manifest; is there anyone who can come and unite me with It? -----Guru Arjan, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 98 -2

Sikh Gurus have used the following words in AGGS to express attributes of that metaphysical force called God/ Absolute Principle;

Ached- ਅਛੇਦ -Indivisable. = Adisatt/Alakh-ਅਦਿਸਟ/ਅਲਖ-Invisible

Agaadh-ਅਗਾਧ-Unfathomable/deep = Agocher-ਅਗੋਚਰ-Beyond reaches of senses.

Agum- ਅਗਮੁ-Inaccessible/Unapproachable.

Ajooni - ਆਜੋਨੀ/ਅਜੋਨੀ-Does not have birth & death.

Akal Moorat - ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤ-Deathless/ever-existent/God.

Akhut- ਅਖੁਟ-Inexhaustible = Alipaari/Alpana-ਅਲਪਾਰੀ/ਅਲਪਨਾ-Detached

Anaath- ਅਨਾਥ-With out master.= Apaah-ਅਪਾਹ-Detached.

Alpat- ਅਲਿਪਤੁ/ਅਲੇਪ untouched.= Apaar- ਅਪਾਰ -Boundless/limitless.

Aprasa- ਅਪਰਸ who does not touch others.=Itthrha- ਇਠੜਾ-Dear/Adorable.

Karta Purkh. ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖ- - The Lord is the Creator of the Universe.

Nirbhau – ਨਿਰਭਉ –Fearless. =Nirvair- ਨਿਰਵੈਰ With out animosity.

Niranjan- ਨਿਰੰਜਨ-Immaculate. = Nirankar- ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ-formless.

Saibhung – ਸੈਭੰ-Self- ¬existent, being the supreme and Prime soul.

God is unfathomable, incomprehensible metaphysical creative force/energy beyond human comprehension and Guru Gobind Singh describes God in Zafarnama, # 112-115:

ਅਗੰਜੋ ਅਭੰਜੋ ਅਰੂਪੋ ਅਰੇਖ ॥ ਅਗਾਧੋ ਅਬਾਧੋ ਅਭਰਮੋ ਅਲੇਖ ॥ ਅਰਾਗੋ ਅਰੂਪੋ ਅਰੇਖੋ ਅਰੰਗ ॥ ਅਜਨਮੋ ਅਬਰਨੋ ਅਭੂਤੋ ਅਭੰਗ ॥ ਅਛੇਦੋ ਅਭੇਦੋ ਅਕਰਮੋ ਅਕਾਮ ॥ ਅਖੇਦੋ ਅਭੇਦੋ ਅਭਰਮੋ ਅਭਾਮ ॥ ਅਰੇਖੋ ਅਭੇਖੋ ਅਲੇਖੋ ਅਭੰਗ ॥ ਖ਼ੁਦਾਵੰਦ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਿੰਦਹੇ ਰੰਗ ਗਰੰਗ ॥

Aganjo, Abhanjo, Arupo Araykh. Arougo, Aroopou, Arekho, Arung; Ajnamo, Abarno, Abhootou, Abhang, Achedou, Abhedou, Akarmou, Akarm; Akhedou, Abhedhou, Abharmo, Abhaam, Arekho, Abhekhou, Alekhou, Abhang; Khudawand, Bakhshanda-ae, Rung, Rung.

God is Immortal, Formless, Deep, eternal, and with out doubt and limit. God is with out color, beauty and music, is beyond birth and death, imperceptible and imperishable. God is neither impregnable nor irrefutable, is above karma and desire, and is above pain, divisions, secrets, suspicion & spouse. God is with out line or guise and cannot be written about and is indestructible, self-existent and bestows many kinds’ pleasures and gratifications.


God has created the universe with both Spiritual and material as described in the following hymns.

ਏਕੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਗੁ ਕੀਆ ॥

Ėko karṯā jin jag kī¬ā.

There is only One Creator, who created the world-----Guru Nanak, Raag Basant, AGGS, Page, 1188-13

ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਉਤਪਾਤੀ ॥

O¬ankār uṯpāṯī.

The One Universal Creator created the creation.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1003-17

ਆਪੇ ਸਚੁ ਕੀਆ ਕਰ ਜੋੜਿ ॥ ਅੰਡਜ ਫੋੜਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਵਿਛੋੜਿ ॥ ਧਰਤਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਕੀਏ ਬੈਸਣ ਕਉ ਥਾਉ ॥ਰਾਤਿ ਦਿਨੰਤੁ ਕੀਏ ਭਉ ਭਾਉ ॥ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰਾ ॥

Āpė sacẖ kī¬ā kar joṛ, Andaj foṛ joṛ vicẖẖoṛ, Ḏẖaraṯ akās kī¬ė baisaṇ ka¬o thā¬o, Rāṯ ḏinanṯ kī¬ė bẖa¬o bẖā¬o, Avar na ḏūjā sirjaṇhārā.

The True Akal Purkh Itself created the universe, joining the elements together. Breaking the cosmic egg, then united, and separated. It made the earth and the sky into places to live. It created day and night, fear and love. The One, who created the Creation, also watches over it. There is no other Creator Akal Purkh. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 839

Creation of Maya:

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮਾਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਵਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਤਰੀਐ ਰੇ ॥ ਘੂਮਨ ਘੇਰ ਅਗਾਹ ਗਾਖਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਰੀਐ ਰੇ ॥

Thrai Gun Maya Braham Kee Keenee Khohu Kavan Bidh Tareeai Ray, Ghooman Ghayr Agaah Gaakhree Gur Sabdee Paar Utree-ai Ray.

God has created Maya of three qualities; tell me how it can be crossed over? The whirlpool is awesome and unfathomable; only through the Word of the Guru's Sabd is one carried across. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 404-3

ਦੋਸੁ ਨਹੀ ਕਾਹੂ ਕਉ ਮੀਤਾ ॥ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹ ਬੰਧੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਕੀਤਾ ॥

Dos Nahee Kaahoo Ka-o Meetaa, Maya Moh Bandh Prabh Keetta.

No one is at fault, my friend. God created the bondage of emotional attachment to Maya.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 257-11

God is in creation and creation (Both spiritual and Material) is in God as described by Kabir;

ਲੋਗਾ ਭਰਮਿ ਨ ਭੂਲਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥

Logaa Bharam Na Bhooloh Bhai, Khalik Khalk Khalk Meh Khalik Poor Rewhip Sarb Thanyee.

O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt. The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places.-----Kabir, Raag Parbhati Bhibhas, AGGS, Page 1350-1

God is part of spirit as well as matter.

ਸੂਖਮ ਅਸਥੂਲ ਸਗਲ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥

Sookham Asthool Sagal Bhagvaan.

The Akal Purkh God is in all mind and matter (subtle and manifest/ ਨਿਰਗੁਨੁ & ਸਰਗੁਨੁ).-----Guru Arjan, Thiti Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 299-17

The following Sabd denotes evolutionary process from stone, vegetation, to animal etc over a long long period of time.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ॥

Kayee Janam Bha-ay Keett Patangaa, “Kayee Janam Meen Kurangaa, Kayee Janam Pankhee Sarap Hooeyoo, Kayee Janam Haivar Birkh Jooeyoo, Mil Jagdeesh Milan Kee Baree-aa, Chirankaal Eh Deh Sanjaree-aa, Kayee Janam Sail Gir Kariaa, Kayee Janam Garabh Hir Khariaa, Kayee Janam Saakh Kar Oupaaey-aa, Lakh Chauraasee Joan Bharmaaey-aa, Saadh Sung Bhaeo Janam Praapat, Kar Seva Bhaj Har Har Gurmat.

In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect. In so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer. In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake. In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. Now is the time to meet the Creator of the Universe. After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains; in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb. In so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves. You wandered through 8.4 million (many) incarnations. Through the Sadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life. Do seva - selfless service; and vibrate the Name of the Creator Akal Purkh. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri Guareri, AGGS, Page, 176

The above Sabd clarifies that God is omnipresent and a part of every atom of every thing, living or dead by human definition. It is an illusion and doubt created by that creative force it self as described by the following reference.

ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਮੇਰੈ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਕੀਨਾ ਆਪੇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਏ ॥ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਕਰਮਿ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਏ ॥

Maya Mohu Mayrai Prabh Keena Aapay Bharam Bhulaa-ay, Gurbaanee Is Jag Meh Chaanan Karam Vasai Man Aa-ay.

Emotional attachment to Maya is created by God; and misleads us through illusion and doubt. -----Guru Amardas, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 67-9

Life and death is an example of duality in this world like every thing else. Life in itself is an integrated, complicated, well disciplined, and organized function of multiple organs of the body.
Every atom contains that universal indefinable super conscious energy, which is never lost and the some total of that stays the same.


Parmatma and Atma (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ/ਆਤਮਾ) is the interchangeable metaphysical energy. The former is harnessed by actively living in the teachings contained in Sabd Guru to become a better human being. It is accomplished by recitation of Naam, meditation, self-discipline or restraint, service of humanity and acknowledging that Creative Force with complete unconditional surrender to it in Humility. “Faith with out right action is dead”.

ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਮਾ ॥

Jap Tap Sanjam Dharam Na Kamaeya, Seva Sadh Na Jania Har Raa-eya, Kaoh Nanak Ham Neech Karma, Saran Paray Ki Rakhoh Sarma.

I have not practiced meditation, self-discipline, self-restraint or righteous living. I have not served the Holy; I have not acknowledged the Creator, my King. Says Nanak, my actions are contemptible! O Akal Purkh, I seek Your Sanctuary; please, preserve my honor! -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 12, 378-4



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Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੧੨ Dhansri Mehla 5 Ghar 12. SGGS 683

ਬੰਦਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਬੰਦਨਾ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਰਾਇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Bandna Har Bandna Gunn Gavho Gopal Raye. Rahao

Bandna –
Devotion. Har –...

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