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ISDhillon

SPNer
Dec 13, 2005
192
14
That is a neglible group of people you are talking about. The set of Sikhs who frequent dere are very small compared to the total number of Sikhs. I wouldn't even consider them representative of ordinary Sikhs -- people who have jobs and families and children and so on, unlike idlers who have the time to waste visiting Deras.


Oh really? I think someone has buried there head in the sands for the last 2 months:rofl!!:

Please stick to the subject. It doesn't give you any credibility when you make wild claims like these. You only end up looking silly.


an inability to answer the comment which I addressed has lead you to make this comment which is indicative of punjabi culture on the whole, shhhh lets ignore the abuse because we know were wrong, when it happens in youre family I wonder if you would take the same stance.

It doesn't matter what I believe.

i agree

Have a great day:D
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
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Gurfateh

in Nihungs we have homosexuals with the term Munadav ghat but people who want to join want them to reform.Das thinks that we can have separate dal for homosexuals in Nihungs.

more input for this.
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
Homosexuality isn't accepted in the Sikh religion as stated before. If a cannabis taker has to quit taking bhung, a homosexual has to stop being homosexual. If polygamy and bigamy are banned, homosexuality is also banned. Homosexuality is nothing more than uncontrolled kaam and attraction to deh. It is moral corruption. This is another big low in society. Even Vedanti issues hukamnama against homosexuality. No matter how bad Vedanti is.
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
Child molestation happened from Nanakser dera cultists. They aren't even close to being Sikhs. Being in control of Gurudwara doesn't make you a Sikh. Massa Ranghar was in control of Akaal Takht and Darbar Sahib at one time too. Those Nanaksar guys molested kids cause they couldn't fulfill their kaam because they had no wives or their wives weren't there. They didn't do it because they wanted to marry some homos. Homosexuality wasn't accepted before and it won't be now either. We aren't going to make compromises with Sikh principles to increase the number of Sikhs to please morally corrupt society.

Who said Sarmad or Hussain were elevated saints? To be labelled and to be in reality is a big difference.
 

k s gadh

SPNer
Dec 26, 2006
22
1
Sat sri Akaal,
Ref.Sikhism and Homosextuality
Homosexulity is nothing but one of the bad thoughts of a persons' mind.
No religion in the world is in favour of lust or homosextuality whether that is Christanity, Islaam, Hinduism or sikhism.
In Gurbani we all prayer...Waheguru Ji sanoo Kaam ,Karodh, Lobh,Moah hankaar toan bachai rakhna( we all mean male or female)
Rozana Gurbani paran wala is tara di gal nahin soach sakda

Sat Sri Akaal Ji
Tusi vi gurbani nall prem karo istra de vichar nahin satan ge.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

Homosexuality if das is not mistaken had some thing to do with some things uncurable happening to man(lesbians in case of women) due to circumstances as das was told by DRkhalsa Ji.

In previous post it was there.Some things which are beyond the control of man.So we can no comdem this just like fundamnetalists.

even if we behold it as sin.
ਪੰਨਾ 920, ਸਤਰ 15
ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਪੁੰਨ ਪਾਪ ਬੀਚਾਰਦੇ ਤਤੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥
सिम्रिति सासत्र पुंन पाप बीचारदे ततै सार न जाणी ॥
Simriṯ sāsṯar punn pāp bīcẖārḏė ṯaṯai sār na jāṇī.
The Simritees and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality.

ਮਃ 3 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

ਪੰਨਾ 949, ਸਤਰ 17
ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਸਾਜਿਅਨੁ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਗਣਤ ਗਣੀਨੀ ॥

सिम्रिति सासत साजिअनु पाप पुंन गणत गणीनी ॥
Simriṯ sāsaṯ sāji­an pāp punn gaṇaṯ gaṇīnī.
He created the Simritees and the Shaastras; He calculates the accounts of virtue and vice.

ਮਃ 3 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

ਪੰਨਾ 1050, ਸਤਰ 3

ਪੁੰਨੁ ਪਾਪੁ ਸਭੁ ਬੇਦਿ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਜੈ ਹੇ ॥੧੫॥
पुंनु पापु सभु बेदि द्रिड़ाइआ गुरमुखि अम्रितु पीजै हे ॥१५॥
Punn pāp sabẖ bėḏ driṛ­ā­i­ā gurmukẖ amriṯ pījai hė. ||15||
The Vedas tell all about virtue and vice, but only the Gurmukh drinks in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||15||

ਮਃ 3 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

So what das came to know about helplessness of homosexuals(two partners or mnay and indulging in such acts and not forcing us in that) as their becoming homsexuals was not in thier control nor it is inthier control to come out of it.Then we have to be sympathic and ned something to do to rehabliation of them.
 

ISDhillon

SPNer
Dec 13, 2005
192
14
Any statements need to be backed by gurbani otherwise it is krodh nothing else, just recently there was a case in my area where 2 sikhs got a civil union partnership to their surprise one of the elders also read the anand karaj for them at the service, it is true that we do not need to be in the gurdwara to have a marriage performed we can just take the verses to the ceremony itself I think this is an excellent idea.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
We can prevent homosexuality for novice by indoctrination but some times it is impossible to bring the people back from homosexuality.

Here we need to talk more about them.anyway Akal is all powerfull and can defy scince.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
Das begs brother TKF to give at least 10 verse from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.10 each for Anti Homsexuality and 10 for no same sex marige.He has option to take help of Kala Afghana Ji and Ghugaga Ji.They are champion to ask 5 or 10 referances.
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
Gurfateh
Das begs brother TKF to give at least 10 verse from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.10 each for Anti Homsexuality and 10 for no same sex marige.He has option to take help of Kala Afghana Ji and Ghugaga Ji.They are champion to ask 5 or 10 referances.

Show me 5 or 10 references where it says you cannot take heroine or methadone.
 

drkhalsa

SPNer
Sep 16, 2004
1,308
54
Homosexuality is nothing more than uncontrolled kaam and attraction to deh. It is moral corruption. This is another big low in society


Dear Friend


It seems you know really very little about What homosexuality is?
So your comments reflects the same

I hope you believe in mordern Medical Science

IT IS A FACT IN MEDICAL SCIENCE THAT NEITHER HOMESEXUALITY IS DISEASE(MENTAL OR PHYSICAL) NOR IT IS ABSOLUTELY GOVERNED BY CHOICE OF INDIVIDUAL WHO IS HOMOSEXUAL


Somebody Deprived of SEX , who indulges in Same Sex ( in case of hetero sexual ) or with child is a PREVERT and PEDOPHILE respectively and not HOMOSEXUAL

So plz first get the basics Right

If the above statement doesnot feel right get in touch with some Medical expert ( preferably Psychiatrist ) and then get it conformed

Only after You know what it is , continue commenting on in it also what your version of Sikhism allows.


In short it is just Sexual Preferance Thats differ Homosexual from Heterosexual not the excess lust or liking for body. its same for the both categories


Thanks


Jatinder Singh
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
I don't care what science says as it is a matter of control of mind. It is still sodomy so it is wrong. Yes the person is a pedophile if the person does it to a kid but it is homosexual when two men go at it on their own will. Also, anyone can say that it isn't my choice or it is natural. God knows what the truth is. Also, if it isn't about deh and is about soul, then it must be possible for a homosexual to fall in love with a woman too but that isn't the case. It is the corruption in the mind. Not something natural. Also you used the word preference, if there is preference, isn't there choice?
 

Sherab

SPNer
Mar 26, 2007
441
20
USA
I don't care what science says as it is a matter of control of mind. It is still sodomy so it is wrong. Yes the person is a pedophile if the person does it to a kid but it is homosexual when two men go at it on their own will. Also, anyone can say that it isn't my choice or it is natural. God knows what the truth is. Also, if it isn't about deh and is about soul, then it must be possible for a homosexual to fall in love with a woman too but that isn't the case. It is the corruption in the mind. Not something natural. Also you used the word preference, if there is preference, isn't there choice?
It's my experince that i could choose to be homosexual if i wanted to - and so could anyone else.

However my "prefernce" is to ebe straight.
 
Jul 13, 2004
588
63
36
UK
It amazes me how many Sikhs follow semetic concepts. This is due to British influence to avoid being considered as a barbaric, ritualistic, superstitious, idolaterous Hindu. To be frank I think you people are forgetting that Sikhism is not a religion in the semetic sense. To reiterate what I have already said on this forum, there was once a time when namaaz was performed in HarMandir Sahib, when murti muja was just performed outside. The true message of Sikhism is unity of mankind. You can scream "we are monotheists all we like" to seem unbarbaric due to British influence and to please the Muslims, but the fact of the matter is, YOUR Guru talks about athiesm, monotheism, polytheism and duality. The same can be applied to this concept of sodomy - please show me where this concept is accepted/promoted anywhere in Sikh scriptures.
The concept of sodomy is NOT anal sex, it is "non procreative sexual acts" - masturbation, oral sex, anal sex and guess what...... KISSING! If you believe in the semetic concept of sodomy then why not accept others such as circumcision, halal/kosher meat, having a specific holy day... may be because the British did not follow some of those things? But the root cause did - Judaism. This proves my point even further that the stance against homosexuality was due to British influence.
When discussing matters like sexuality you have to separate act from desire. I am homosexual, and no hetero, no matter what pedestal of piety they put themselves on, is going to tell me that I have chosen my desire. I simply don't care. However what is a choice is acting upon that desire, and like most religions say you should, I will only engage in sexual activity with a marital framework, yes - with a man.


A few website quotes:
Gay and Lesbian Vaishnava Association, Inc.
A marginal homophobic trend in pre-colonial India thus became dominant in modern India. Indian nationalists, including Hindus, internalized Victorian ideals of heterosexual monogamy and disowned indigenous traditions that contravened those ideals. Nevertheless, those traditions persisted, for example, in the very visible communities of hijras, transgendered males who have a semi-sacred status and often engage in sexual relations with men.

History of sex in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
However the main moral influence that led to stigmatisation of Indian sexual liberalism by Indians within India itself was the effect of the ideas of the Victorian era, in which other cultures were seen as primitive if they did not conform to the ideas of European culture. The pluralism of Hinduism, and its liberal attitudes were condemned as 'barbaric' by a colonial Europe and proof of inferiority of the East. The effects of British education, administration, scholarship of Indian history and biased literature all led to the effective 'colonization' of the Indian mind with European values. This led Indians eager to conform their religious practices and moral values to Victorian ideas of high civilisation.
 

k s gadh

SPNer
Dec 26, 2006
22
1
sat sri akaal,
Re. sikhism and homosextuality
Neither sikhism nor hinduism\muslimism\christanism\budhism says anythins about homosextuality. This is only lust, creation of shaitan dimag or the thinking of such type of persons who are not stable in their life, donot try to meditate for refining of the soul. we should not relate the homosextuality with any religion.
This is totally different term dont' mingle it with any religion.
I may be wrong (pardon me_
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,949
55
United Kingdom
It All Comes Down To Kaam!!!

Can people please answer the following questions before going round and round with this topic?

1) Is the intercourse between Lesbians/Homosexuals Kaam because they cannot reproduce?

2) If you have answered yes to the above then please explain intercourse between a hetrosexual couple who cannot have children? Is that not Kaam?

I need all the homophobes here to answer these question first before the topic moves on.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
Birth control measures have given sex a new meaning. Man has outsmarted nature by getting more sex without conceiving. Gone are the days when children were plenty and older siblings has to pass on their clothes, shoes and books to the younger ones. Bigger families also meant more responsibility for everyone in the family.
There was more co-operation, more respect within the family unit, and everyone learnt survival tips everyday.
Today, everything for one child, listen to all the bad language, no respect for elders, no peace of mind. Are we that smart after all?
Now we're talking about Arnold Schwarzenegger as a pregnant man? The Terminator with cramps and morning sickness? ... enjoyable fluff, in which Arnold plays a scientist who uses ...
 

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