Respected Pk70 ji, Thanks for your reply. 02.Amrit ceremomy-Area Of no-convergence. is`KW nUM is`KI dwn, kys dwn, rihq dwn, ibbyk dwn, ivswh dwn, Brosw dwn, dwnW isr dwn, nwm dwn sRI AMimRqsr jI dy ieSnwn, cOkIAW, JMfy, buMgy, jugo jug At`l, Drm kw jYkwr, bolo jI vwihgurU!!! Sikhs in standard Ardas beg for naam daily. They have been doing so for centuries and shall continue to do so for centuries. They do not know what to meditate upon. God shall give naam only to one in a million.Naam is not disclosed in the Granth. Only Guru mantra is told and that also is defined by the scribe of the Guru.It is for this reason that I want to avoid Amrit Sanchar and naam drid during Sanchar ceremony. I take along the points where there can be possibility of some convergence right now or in the immediate future, for the reason I have placed Amrit ceremony in area of no-convergence for the time being as you are fairly strong on this. When we have discussed it at length, may be some convergence develops and that may be the starting point of the Amrit ceremony. As there is no concept in Hinduism, things are simple. 03. Essential ingredients of Religion In any religion, worth the name, all these are the essential ingredients, His order or the divine order and the His grace and the liberation. Each and every religion leads to Mukti and should do so to enable it to be called as Mukti or liberation. The religion that does not tell us clearly as to how to reach HIM is not a religion at all.There is nothing new in that you have stated above. Wow, I didn’t feel ever like this, since I took it to mind, I have no problem, after posting thousands of essays or kathas, suddenly your this declaration has surprised me. What is not clear? How to reach to HIM? Systematically Gurbani takes you to walk on the path with sincerity. By merely defining words used in Gurbani is not walking on it. Gurbani in Mool Mantra explicitly explains, which you understood, who is He with little reservation, Guru ji continues describing how even after trying, He remains inexpressible. Guru makes me understand about HIM the creator of all( Japji) What more clarity do you need. Then an effort is done many times to explain His Hukam( Japji), How to be heard is also elaborated in beautiful words. Are you just reading and writing or also into the battle Guru ji asks us to be. If answer is yes, then your this question is disturbing otherwise you are filled with so many doubts, it is impossible to walk on that path because the doubtful mind is not helpful . Surprisingly you quote upnishda with same message of surrender in the end of your post, is it more clear? No, simply believing has not been conceived, and it should be natural. 03.1 When the sheer meaning of Guru is not clear to me and I hope to many other as well how can then one presume that Guru shall guide us. Who is the Guru you have referred to here ?.It should be Guru Granth sahib ji. But at many places in bani it does not appear to be so. Many posts in the recently started thread should make it abundantly clear as to who is Guru is ambiguous and leaves a lot of scope for manipulation by the seekers as per their understanding. There are references to many types of Gurus and there is no standardization that is seemingly possible. 1.Who is a Guru in Sikhism as per Granth.? Who is God in Sikhism.? In Hinduism these are different entities. Is it the essential difference between sikhism and Hinduism.? 03.2 Some respected member has recently found out the meaning of a term that should qualify for Satguru. When the Lord or waheguru is not clear in the Granth sahib, how it is expected that the seeker shall proceed further? This is the way to alienate Sikhism from Hinduism where the concept of God and Guru is clear on account of acceptance of Human gurus as things get simplified. 0.3.3 1.Who is Guru and who is Lord is not clear in bani and leaves lot of scope for confusion. There is no scope of confusion in Gita where the Lord Himself declares as the creator and is the one to be obtained.One does not discard other scriptures just because it has been said so. 2.Who is the Creator as per bani? 3.Were/Are Gurus the Creators ? In hinduism things are simple and clear. There may be idolatory, But then sikhs also practice by keeping the Granth sahib in Gurudwara. It is a modified version of the same.Then there is a Granthi or a Paathi and then there are persons who prepare kada parsad. Keeping idols help the person to concentrate on the diety he/she loves.This is the present status so what is the big difference. 0.3.4 Sikhism professes Naam Simran and meditation. 1.What is that Naam.Is it known even to a single sikh that sikhs are proud of.One in a million understands the reality.This is as per Granth sahib. What is the name of asingle sikh who have acknowledged meeting/realizing/seeing HIM or getting close to the truth. Even the Granth sahib gives reference to Dhruv or Parhlad who themselves are just myth,at the moment, in Hinduism.? Is it waheguru or satnaaam or Guru nanak and like wise. None is stated clearly in the Granth sahib. 2.Which ever it is, is it given by the God to the seeker or there are some other ways. In Hinduism things are simple and plain. Remember the one ~OM~, the all pervasive and one reaches the goal. I think it is the only way we can move ahead in a systematic manner i.e. by taking one point at a time and taking care of the rest in the posts that may follow. You are free to suggest any other method so that issues are resolved one by one.