Short-hair Ban On Gurudwara Marriages

[sahilmakkar1983]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

Gurufateh

What i hv heard about long hairs in Sikhi
is that when our great people were on war
there hair grew up...
thats why the tradition was followed in order to honour them
but the Amrit chakana was not only to people that were having Long hairs only
starting from GuruNanak dev ji..

Bhai Bala , Mardana all were not having Long Hairs..

As told in other posts SIKH in not outer appearance
but it is state on the way to Bhakti(meditation of Holy name)
word SIKH(Punjabi) means Disciple(English) or Shishya(hindi)

I'm really not sure.

How is a "mona" determined? And who does it?

I don't hear Sikh ladies that keep their hair long but trimmed described as "monas". I hear Amritdhari women with plucked eyebrows still described as "Amritdharis" and not "monas". I don't hear men with turban and trimmed beard described as "monas", they are described as "beard-trimmers". I don't hear men or women with piercings (ears, nose, or any other place) described as "monas". I don't hear Sikhs that have undergone elective cosmetic surgery described as "monas".

Yet all of these people are choosing to not keep the body intact.


The first time I walked in to a gurdwara, I didn't walk in wearing panj kakkars. I believed in the gurus, yes. I knew the rules, yes. But I was not very good at adopting their teachings.

I knew one of the things that I had to do was to not cut my hair anymore. With guru's grace, after a bit more than 1 year, I was ready to finally make that commitment.

I became Keshdhari when I made the commitment to Guruji to not cut my hair or shave my legs any more.

It was not the centimeter length of hair that was on my head that made me Keshdhari.

It is not the position of my hair in it's growth cycle that made me Keshdhari.

It was not the gurdwara's committee that made me Keshdhari.

It was not opinion of the sangat that made me Keshdhari.

It was me, Waheguruji, and our commitment to each other that made me Keshdhari.

I don't understand why that is not enough.

 

[tkaur]

It is nice to have a discussion on this topic. Everyone has their own opinion. And I'm going to give mine.
I do not think this ban has any bone. Why are we as Sikhs becoming so unwelcoming? Due to these kind of attitudes, we have not been able to spread Sikhi and it's doctrine. First the ones who are in charge need to show how to follow this great way of life then we'll be able to attract others and our own to perfection.
Anand Karaj was created to to give Sikhs a simple, humble, and short marriage ceremony. What have our people made out of it. There are so many rituals being done at Anand Karajs that it is loosing its meaning.
Let us open our hearts and bring our loved to Sikhi and its way of life with open arms!

 

[msghael]

SSA T Kaur Ji,
I agree 100%. Let those imposing this ban also ban those not contributing 10% of their income to the gurudwara. Let them also ban thos who consume alcohol. let them also ban who have extra-marital sex or commit adultery. Let them aslo ban all who are addicted to any drug in any form because all the above are explicity banned in our scriptures.
Let us not be hipocretes as was my experience at the Harminder Sahib in 1978. Those "donating" in coins when bowing to the GURU were given patasha as parshad and those donating in "notes" were given Kara Parsad !!
WGKK WGKF
Maninder Singh

 

[Singh13]

I am not agree with this ban because that will cause more hatred in our own community. People who has short hair they might be the one more connected to guru that a full fledg sardar. Apperace does make a difference, i agree with that but what about those people who are full sardar but constantly think about getting their hair cut but they can't do it cuz of the image they have. What about them ? Baning short hair will give an upper hand to hindu's and muslims to convert our people into their relegion. Now days gurdwara's are open under the caste's such as jatt, ramgaria, makhan shah labana than other gurdwara's will open up such as mona's gurdwara. Banning a short marriage in gurdwara is not a solving a problem it will basically create more problem and more hatred towards gursikh. It also affect the concept of Harminder sahib having a 4 doors that everyone is welcome but on the other hand we are just stoping our own blood not to get marry in the gurdwara.
Some people cut their hair for some reason and they might want to have their children a gursikh than what if they didn't get marry in the gurdwara u think they will have their kids get marry there to or their kids will think well you guys didn't accept my father in the gurdwara cuz he had short hai screw u i am not gonna accept u.

These are some of things i though of maybe other people will think that too if short hair ban does happen.

wgkk wgkf

bhull chuk maff.

 

[Beeba]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

Please note that uncut hair was required from guru nanak's time , It is a misconception that people have that only the khalsa created by Guru Gobind singh ji and thereafter had hair uncut but this is not so.
every rehat that khalsa had after 1699 vaisakhi was present even before that from Guru nanak's time. The way amrit was to be taken had changed after 1699.

regarding the marriage aspect i believe that if we shun the people who are presently are not following Sikhi, we will never be able to take them back in our fold. If we dont shun them there is possibility we could have our brothers/sisters realise sometime that what they miss being outside sikhi.

-Sumeet

You say that that uncut hair was required of a Sikh even before Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time, please provide proof for this claim, thank you!

-Beeba

 

[Beeba]

I am not agree with this ban because that will cause more hatred in our own community. People who has short hair they might be the one more connected to guru that a full fledg sardar. Apperace does make a difference, i agree with that but what about those people who are full sardar but constantly think about getting their hair cut but they can't do it cuz of the image they have. What about them ? Baning short hair will give an upper hand to hindu's and muslims to convert our people into their relegion. Now days gurdwara's are open under the caste's such as jatt, ramgaria, makhan shah labana than other gurdwara's will open up such as mona's gurdwara. Banning a short marriage in gurdwara is not a solving a problem it will basically create more problem and more hatred towards gursikh. It also affect the concept of Harminder sahib having a 4 doors that everyone is welcome but on the other hand we are just stoping our own blood not to get marry in the gurdwara.
Some people cut their hair for some reason and they might want to have their children a gursikh than what if they didn't get marry in the gurdwara u think they will have their kids get marry there to or their kids will think well you guys didn't accept my father in the gurdwara cuz he had short hai screw u i am not gonna accept u.

These are some of things i though of maybe other people will think that too if short hair ban does happen.

wgkk wgkf

bhull chuk maff.

I totally agree with what you are saying, these types of bans are only going to stratify and segregate our community. Being one of the youngest religions, we are already so divided amongst ourselves, why create more division and hatred? By this ban, Sikhs are pushing away their own and the generations to come and it will only create conflict and ill will. I think the fundamental concepts of Sikhi are being forgotten, morals that are the defining facets of Sikhism. These being, EQUALITY, JUSTICE, UNIVERSITALITY, BROTHER/SISTER-HOOD, LOVE, PEACE, ONE-NESS WITH GOD, SHARING, SANGAT (please forgive me for any mistakes...)
First of all, I don't believe that any where in the SGGS, Dasam Granth, Rehit Nama etc. does it say that Monas should not get married in the Gurdwara, even non-sikhs.
You (whom ever presented this idea of banning) think you are going to create more sikhs by banning them? This is not the way to do it. When a child does something wrong, the mother does not simply kick him/her out, she makes hiim understand, loves him and coaxes him into coming to reason.
I personally think that Amrit chakna is a very personal thing, a huge step in our faith and ofcourse only from "gur prasad" or by God's blessing can this miracle occur. One cannot merely force another to do this. Yes, parents can teach their children the Sikh way of life, but more importantly they should lead by example and virtue. And even if they have done this, they can only pray and hope that their children will enter the heavenly bliss known as Khalsa. Also, just by keeping the 5 k's, one is not going to be a true Sikh or become khalsa, one must have the emotional and spiritual will power that was ever so present in Guru Gobind Singh ji's Singhs. My friends, this is a great sacrifice, but banning one's own is not going to fix anything.
Thank you and God bless,
-Beeba

 

[FiveLovedOnes]

:advocate: Ok let us not keep things to ourselves n figure out what is right in the eyes of Guru 's eyes.Let us consider the the true story of 40 sikhs fighting mugal forces along with Guru Gobind Singh Ji Sahib.When 40 sikhs refused to accept the Hukum or order of Guru Guru immediately ask them to give in writing that they r not his Sikhs n he is not their Guru anymore if they leave the fort without obeying his order.They left the fort n GURU LEFT THEM TOO ALL TOGETHER (NOTE THIS) N NOWTHE 40 SIKHS WERE ON THEIR OWN WITH THEIR OWN FATE N DESTINY.

They returned back to guru after being badly felt ashamed of their foolish act of disobeying the guru N badly insulted by their own wives n locals.They came back to guru n AGREED THAT THEY WILL OBEY HIS ORDERS N FIGHT WITH THE MUGAL FORCES. NOTE THIS: Only when they obeyed Guru's Hukum Guru Gobind Singh accepted them as his Singhs n Khalsas.Guru blessing them as immortals n many other blessings were showered upon them.Even the Guru rejects those who disobey his Hukums n so who r we to accept then still as sikhs.Those not allowed in gurudwaras now will feel ashamed when not allowed to enter Gurudwaras every time they visit there n realised of thier mistake n many will return to sikhi again.Don't worry much about what will happen with the ban.This panth needs strong n bold people n not cowards who hide their identity with slight strong wind/storm.Sikh religion was formed with bold n strongs who accepted hardest Hukums of Guru.First was giving away one's head before Guru's sword at the time of Khalsa panth formation ceremony-Vaisakhi.

Also during 1984 Bluestar operation strong n bold sikhs came forward to fight back against Indian forces while weak remained in their houses n came out when golden temple was demolished.Weak sikhs do no good to themselves n to the community n so why we be much worried about them.Afterall it is individual duty of each Sikh to make himself/herself strong spiritually,religiously,physically n mentally.Outside help works to a small extent n finally for long race one has to win on his/her feet all with self help n Guru's help.

Let strongs come forward n let weak remain behind.They will join the strong soon if they can.Don't worry much.

From this incident it is clearly evident that SIKHI IS ABOUT OBEYING GURU'S HUKUMS.Those who obey are Sikhs or Khalsas.

Those who disobey Guru's orders r Patits(LOST in true sense) n r not sikhs at all.Then why a non-sikh should turn back to Guru's Dawar for marriage n help.Why Should Sikhs accept them when Guru himself rejects them.Disobeying Guru's orders/Bachans r similar to giving in writing to Guru that U r not my Guru anymore.In return Guru says I am not your Guru anymore.

Unless n Untill A patit accepts Guru's Bachans n return back to Guru n follow his orders he will be considered as a patit sikh.
Let the patit sikhs be pushed away from sikh population n gurudwaras as Guru has already pushed them away from his heart.
Anyway we don't need weak sikhs in our community as they will further weaken our population.So ban on non-sikhs(men n women who remove a single hair from their body or trim it) from getting married in Gurudwara is a good step ahead.:advocate:

 

[Beeba]

"Anyway we don't need weak sikhs in our community as they will further weaken our population.So ban on non-sikhs(men n women who remove a single hair from their body or trim it) from getting married in Gurudwara is a good step ahead.":advocate:[/quote]

Since when is Sikhism like a game of the "survival of the fittest"?
The Sikh Dharam is an inner journey of spirituality and enlightenment, and it comes in all shapes and sizes. Who are you to say, this sikh is better than
the rest or... lower? Only God can tell who is good and who is bad. Also, the essence of Sikhism is equality. What, are we going to start judging our very own because they might not hold gold stars in your book? Thats a pretty shallow mind set you got there "five loved ones" :hmm:

 

[FiveLovedOnes]

"Anyway we don't need weak sikhs in our community as they will further weaken our population.So ban on non-sikhs(men n women who remove a single hair from their body or trim it) from getting married in Gurudwara is a good step ahead.":advocate:

Since when is Sikhism like a game of the "survival of the fittest"?
The Sikh Dharam is an inner journey of spirituality and enlightenment, and it comes in all shapes and sizes. Who are you to say, this sikh is better than
the rest or... lower? Only God can tell who is good and who is bad. Also, the essence of Sikhism is equality. What, are we going to start judging our very own because they might not hold gold stars in your book? Thats a pretty shallow mind set you got there "five loved ones" :hmm:[/quote]

Read the history of sikhs first n find out urself if Sikhs r not "survival of the fittest".Directly or indirectly they emerged as Survival of the fittest by truely following Guru's path.Millions of sacrifices have been made by sikhs of past for not giving up their hairs n their faith n today we like fools see everything before us happening n instead of uniting n eliminating these bads out of our religion we r fighting among ourself n blaming each other who is to decide.Do u think that Guru himself will come down to bring reforms among Sikhs.Guru has apppointed such a big army to do wonders on this planet n he himself called us all khalsas n our job is to be like a khalsas ourself n also help others lifted to the level of khalsa.Those who fail will perish by this deadly ocean.This is a fact.Mind it.Has our Guru made us fools that we cannot decide who is right n who is not.What u r looking for.Do U want to sit n see the things changing before ur eyes n still be quite.U may be like that but I am not.:}--}:
Tell me r u a gold star n how come u judge that i am not a gold star.whatever form or shape I am in i am always proud of being born as a sikh n a guru ka sikh n will always favor those who work for sikhi n not those who simply sit n critise those who favor reforms.What a bunch of losers this koom has.Come on go out n run 2 miles n get some oxygen blood in ur brain so that u can focuss more towards reforms rather than taking sick.And what is this Beeba.No Kaur added.What do u feel degraded by adding kaur to ur name.Read my comments with a postive mind n keep ur negative mind in a cage.:}--}:

 

[Beeba]

i think you didn't understand by what I meant as in gold stars. It was not an accusation or negative comment towards you. Sorry for that. And also, you are the one critizing all over the place

"What a bunch of losers this koom has"
"Come on go out n run 2 miles n get some oxygen blood in ur brain so that u can focuss more towards reforms rather than taking sick.And what is this Beeba.No Kaur added.What do u feel degraded by adding kaur to ur name."

Clearly I am not the one doing the critizing here!
I am a very open and liberal minded person. I believe that there is an inner strengh that can only "reform" oneself. We must awaken that in our selves through some way else-paath, naam, meditation, seva..., not by banning others out of our community. If you are willing to see or understand what I am saying, then do, but if you can't then it does not affect me. Thank you
=Beeba

 

[FiveLovedOnes]

i think you didn't understand by what I meant as in gold stars. It was not an accusation or negative comment towards you. Sorry for that. And also, you are the one critizing all over the place

"What a bunch of losers this koom has"
"Come on go out n run 2 miles n get some oxygen blood in ur brain so that u can focuss more towards reforms rather than taking sick.And what is this Beeba.No Kaur added.What do u feel degraded by adding kaur to ur name."

Clearly I am not the one doing the critizing here!
I am a very open and liberal minded person. I believe that there is an inner strengh that can only "reform" oneself. We must awaken that in our selves through some way else-paath, naam, meditation, seva..., not by banning others out of our community. If you are willing to see or understand what I am saying, then do, but if you can't then it does not affect me. Thank you
=Beeba

Banning is the last resort these patits have left for us.It has been many years we have been trying to bring them on the track but they don't want to n instead they r spoiling other gursikhs n sikhi.Gurudwaras have become political grounds for them n they r destroying the very meaning of sikhi n gurudwaras.How long one will bear all these.Recently in chandigarh gurudwaras banned girls wearing jeans as they were spoiling gursikh girls too.A good step taken though late.But had great impact on young girls.Same will happen with these hair cut sikhs n hair trimming girls when not allowed in gurudwaras.why r u so much concerned with change.
Remember those who don't make reforms finally perish n r lost.Read history of sikhs to know more how much sikhs have struggled to keep sikhi in good shape.U should better keep undating urself with history of sikhs.
U don't worry much about these reforms Beeba.Have patience n wait for good results to come.Sat Shri Akal.

 

[bitnam]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I haven't read through everyone's responses, however I get the general drift.

Rather than ban monas from having an anand marriage perhaps we could try to enforce pre-conditions that until such time that a person is willing to undergo the path of Sikhi then they will not qualify for Anand Marriage. By doing this we would not necessarily be banning anyone from taking Anand Marriage, rather giving them an option with conditions.

Any person wanting such a marriage would need to satisfy some qualifying criteria, eg undergoing studies into Sikhi;attending the Gurdwara regularly and understanding why they attend; being able to recite some of the simple prayers and of course exhibit the outward signs of Sikhi.

For those who wish not to do so they can go and get married in the registry office and one day once they are ready to accept the tennets of Sikhi then they can come back and partake in the Anand Marriage in order to solemise their marriage. Even if it takes them many years. Well, within reason of course...I mean you don't want your kids to attend your wedding?

 

[J.A.T.T]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I haven't read through everyone's responses, however I get the general drift.

Rather than ban monas from having an anand marriage perhaps we could try to enforce pre-conditions that until such time that a person is willing to undergo the path of Sikhi then they will not qualify for Anand Marriage. By doing this we would not necessarily be banning anyone from taking Anand Marriage, rather giving them an option with conditions.

Any person wanting such a marriage would need to satisfy some qualifying criteria, eg undergoing studies into Sikhi;attending the Gurdwara regularly and understanding why they attend; being able to recite some of the simple prayers and of course exhibit the outward signs of Sikhi.

For those who wish not to do so they can go and get married in the registry office and one day once they are ready to accept the tennets of Sikhi then they can come back and partake in the Anand Marriage in order to solemise their marriage. Even if it takes them many years. Well, within reason of course...I mean you don't want your kids to attend your wedding?

Or those people will end up following some other religion instead.

 

[kds1980]

Or those people will end up following some other religion instead.

Following other religion is not easy in strict traditional societies.do you think amritdhari parents will accept their son' marrying in mandir or masjid.their society will immiediately declare them out caste.what these people will do is that they will grow their hair before
marriage and then they will cut it again after marriage.That's why i am against any kind of
this type of ban.

 

[bitnam]

Following other religion is not easy in strict traditional societies.do you think amritdhari parents will accept their son' marrying in mandir or masjid.their society will immiediately declare them out caste.what these people will do is that they will grow their hair before
marriage and then they will cut it again after marriage.That's why i am against any kind of
this type of ban.

Gurfateh Ji,

Maybe we should conduct surveys within our Gurdwaras to get a real consensus on this and other issues. I think I might just do that at my local Gurdwara.

Personally, I think that the idea would appeal to members of the public. I also believe that if someone has made the effort to grow their hair and taken time to learn more about the faith they are not going to throw it all away in an instant. Also once one starts on the path of Sikhi its amazing how quickly one can become genuinley interested.

By the way, where did this ban idea come from?

 

[jag69]

And we wonder why the youth are not attracted to the teachings of Sikhism! Absurd...who is going to police this? So if a woman shaves under her armpits, then she is banned from her wedding? If a guy is an elite athlete and has to shave his legs then he is banned? You are making this religion far too complicated.

So it is ok to then grow your hair for the wedding, and then shave it off for the reception? Or should we say they may NEVER cut their hair?

Who ever is making these rules are evangelists who have flawed logic. It is NOT a sin to cut hair or whatever, I am a far better sikh than most because my HEART and soul follows the gurus...it is the way of living and not dictated to by some local gurdwara.

 

[Tash]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

Sikhism was initiated by Guru Nanak Dev Ji and progressed until the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It was then that the concept of the Khalsa started. My question : were all the Sikhs who died prior to the creation of the Khalsa "bad people" ? To me, Sikhism is a way of life, I prefer to live by the teachings of Guru Nanak. How can one ban the marriage of someone who has decided to cut his / her hair ? I have seen people who are Amrithdari and are more evil than those who have cut their hair. Plus 2pac is dead, get over it.

Wjkk wjkf
sikhs are students and will obey what their Gurus tell them. From Guru Nanak to Guru Granth There is ONE jot in our Gurus, Nanak. So, the 10th Nanak, kalngidhar pita asked us to keep our hair, etc so we do it... Thats that.

 

[jaskaransingh]

i dont understand who has applied the ban is it delhi or amritsar and does it apply to blethi countries

 

[Archived_Member1]

I am a far better sikh than most because my HEART and soul follows the gurus...it is the way of living and not dictated to by some local gurdwara.

wow, and humble too!

 

[drkhalsa]

And we wonder why the youth are not attracted to the teachings of Sikhism! Absurd...who is going to police this? So if a woman shaves under her armpits, then she is banned from her wedding? If a guy is an elite athlete and has to shave his legs then he is banned? You are making this religion far too complicated.

So it is ok to then grow your hair for the wedding, and then shave it off for the reception? Or should we say they may NEVER cut their hair?

Who ever is making these rules are evangelists who have flawed logic. It is NOT a sin to cut hair or whatever, I am a far better sikh than most because my HEART and soul follows the gurus...it is the way of living and not dictated to by some local gurdwara.

You can be quite right my friend !

dont be upset after reading thses posts . these are just the viws that people carry and are for disscusion

You are right in saying that the way Sikh religions has been made to appear complicated has drived the youth away