Sexual Intercourse, Need Or A Want?
- Thread starter justosh
- Start date
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I think that "holy" or rather completely spiritual sexuality can be summed up with one small phrase:
"...Love consists not in feeling great things but in having great detachment [from oneself] and in suffering for the Beloved...All for you and nothing for me..."
- Saint John of the Cross (1542 – 1591), Catholic mystic
If a lover has the attitude, "all for you and nothing for me" then sex is a holy act capable of fostering not only spiritual growth but even detachment from self; in truth it also becomes seva and can bring a person into union with God.
To achieve this selfless state of sacrificial love in one's sexual relationship, I would encourage some reading of one of my favourite books of the Bible - The Song of Songs/Song of Solomon.
It is a story of the love affair between two unmarried youngsters, probably in their mid-teens, living circa 900 BC in Ancient Israel. Contrary to the marriage rites of their time, which were arranged according to class and which were only about property rights and succession, the love between these two youngsters ascends to the sacramental level - it is a mutual, self-giving, committed relationship founded upon love alone between a nobleman's daughter and a shepherd boy. In this respect we have a true marriage so to speak, a union of two souls, a sacrament not just a ritual and property rights. The poem is told largely from the woman's perspective ie during the oral sex scenes it is the woman's who speaks of tasting the man's fruit (semen) and the woman who speaks of the man blowing upon her garden (vagina). This was revolutionary for the time. In the narrative they have to make love and kiss in secret, and the young girls brothers and other antagonists often intervene to keep the two lovers apart but they stick together through thick and thin. Note how she affectionately calls him her "king", and later on in the text the boy chides/mocks the real King Solomon for all his concubines and wealth. The girl has her own king in the Shepherd boy and he has his own wealth in the girl, with no need for thousands of concubines, gardens and riches. His girl, according to the text, has it all!
I love it. I suggest one to read it alone in translation rather than in the available Bible translations:
Amazon.com: The Song of Songs: A New Translation (9780520213302): Ariel Bloch, Chana Bloch, Robert Alter: Books
(But if you own a Bible then do just skip right back in your Old Testament to this book. The translation will still be good, even though a singular translation like the above naturally gives it more focus in expression and artistic quality)
"....Kiss me, make me drunk with your kisses!
Your sweet lovemaking
is better than wine
You are fragrant,
you are myrrh and aloes.
All the young women want you.
Take me by the hand, let us run together!
My lover, my king, has brought me into his chambers.
We will laugh, you and I, and count each kiss,
better than wine.
Every one of them wants you.
...
My brothers were angry with me,
they made me guard the vineyards,
I have not guarded my own (She has been sexually active)
My king lay down beside me
and my fragrance
wakened the night
All night My beloved is to me a cluster of myrrh
that lies between my breasts.
My beloved is to me a sheaf of
henna blossoms in the vineyards of Ein Gedi
...
And my beloved among the young men
is a branching apricot tree in the wood.
In that shade I have often lingered,
tasting the fruit
...
Now he has brought me to the house of wine,
and his flag over me is love.
Let me lie among vine blossoms,
in a bed of apricots!
I am in the fever of love.
His left hand beneath my head,
his right arm
holding me close.
Daughters of Jerusalem, swear to me
by the gazelles, by the deer in the field,
that you will never awaken love
until it is ripe.
...
Awake, north wind; O south wind, come,
breathe upon my garden,
let its spices stream out.
Let my lover come into his garden
and taste its delicious fruit.
I have come into my garden,
my sister, my bride,
I have gathered my myrrh and my spices,
I have eaten from the honeycomb,
I have drunk the milk and the wine.
Feast, friends, and drink
till you are drunk with love!
...
How wonderful you are, O Love,
how much sweeter
than all other pleasures!
That day you seemed to me a tall palm tree,
and your breasts
the clusters of its fruit.
I said in my heart,
Let me climb into that palm tree
and take hold of its branches
And oh, may your breasts be like clusters
of grapes on a vine, the scent
of your breath like apricots,
your mouth good wine-
That pleases my lover, rousing him
even from sleep.
I am my lover's,
he longs for me,
only for me.
Come, my beloved,
let us go out into the fields
and lie all night among the flowering henna.
...
There I will give you my love..."
- The Song of Songs, Bible (Ariel Bloch translation)
"...Love consists not in feeling great things but in having great detachment [from oneself] and in suffering for the Beloved...All for you and nothing for me..."
- Saint John of the Cross (1542 – 1591), Catholic mystic
If a lover has the attitude, "all for you and nothing for me" then sex is a holy act capable of fostering not only spiritual growth but even detachment from self; in truth it also becomes seva and can bring a person into union with God.
To achieve this selfless state of sacrificial love in one's sexual relationship, I would encourage some reading of one of my favourite books of the Bible - The Song of Songs/Song of Solomon.
It is a story of the love affair between two unmarried youngsters, probably in their mid-teens, living circa 900 BC in Ancient Israel. Contrary to the marriage rites of their time, which were arranged according to class and which were only about property rights and succession, the love between these two youngsters ascends to the sacramental level - it is a mutual, self-giving, committed relationship founded upon love alone between a nobleman's daughter and a shepherd boy. In this respect we have a true marriage so to speak, a union of two souls, a sacrament not just a ritual and property rights. The poem is told largely from the woman's perspective ie during the oral sex scenes it is the woman's who speaks of tasting the man's fruit (semen) and the woman who speaks of the man blowing upon her garden (vagina). This was revolutionary for the time. In the narrative they have to make love and kiss in secret, and the young girls brothers and other antagonists often intervene to keep the two lovers apart but they stick together through thick and thin. Note how she affectionately calls him her "king", and later on in the text the boy chides/mocks the real King Solomon for all his concubines and wealth. The girl has her own king in the Shepherd boy and he has his own wealth in the girl, with no need for thousands of concubines, gardens and riches. His girl, according to the text, has it all!
I love it. I suggest one to read it alone in translation rather than in the available Bible translations:
Amazon.com: The Song of Songs: A New Translation (9780520213302): Ariel Bloch, Chana Bloch, Robert Alter: Books
(But if you own a Bible then do just skip right back in your Old Testament to this book. The translation will still be good, even though a singular translation like the above naturally gives it more focus in expression and artistic quality)
"....Kiss me, make me drunk with your kisses!
Your sweet lovemaking
is better than wine
You are fragrant,
you are myrrh and aloes.
All the young women want you.
Take me by the hand, let us run together!
My lover, my king, has brought me into his chambers.
We will laugh, you and I, and count each kiss,
better than wine.
Every one of them wants you.
...
My brothers were angry with me,
they made me guard the vineyards,
I have not guarded my own (She has been sexually active)
My king lay down beside me
and my fragrance
wakened the night
All night My beloved is to me a cluster of myrrh
that lies between my breasts.
My beloved is to me a sheaf of
henna blossoms in the vineyards of Ein Gedi
...
And my beloved among the young men
is a branching apricot tree in the wood.
In that shade I have often lingered,
tasting the fruit
...
Now he has brought me to the house of wine,
and his flag over me is love.
Let me lie among vine blossoms,
in a bed of apricots!
I am in the fever of love.
His left hand beneath my head,
his right arm
holding me close.
Daughters of Jerusalem, swear to me
by the gazelles, by the deer in the field,
that you will never awaken love
until it is ripe.
...
Awake, north wind; O south wind, come,
breathe upon my garden,
let its spices stream out.
Let my lover come into his garden
and taste its delicious fruit.
I have come into my garden,
my sister, my bride,
I have gathered my myrrh and my spices,
I have eaten from the honeycomb,
I have drunk the milk and the wine.
Feast, friends, and drink
till you are drunk with love!
...
How wonderful you are, O Love,
how much sweeter
than all other pleasures!
That day you seemed to me a tall palm tree,
and your breasts
the clusters of its fruit.
I said in my heart,
Let me climb into that palm tree
and take hold of its branches
And oh, may your breasts be like clusters
of grapes on a vine, the scent
of your breath like apricots,
your mouth good wine-
That pleases my lover, rousing him
even from sleep.
I am my lover's,
he longs for me,
only for me.
Come, my beloved,
let us go out into the fields
and lie all night among the flowering henna.
...
There I will give you my love..."
- The Song of Songs, Bible (Ariel Bloch translation)
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I don't feel that it is either a Need or a Want.
It's only if you THINK about it, that you start this need or want questioning.
I don't ever think about it either, ...I just do it!!!!!!
A little like food, when you need it there is no point questioning is it a want or a need, you just do it and eat!!!!!
It's only if you THINK about it, that you start this need or want questioning.
I don't ever think about it either, ...I just do it!!!!!!
A little like food, when you need it there is no point questioning is it a want or a need, you just do it and eat!!!!!
- Jan 31, 2011
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Luckyji, I admire your style, I have attempted to embrace this concept, and have so far collected 2 black eyes, bruised and swollen groin, a stinging cheek and a broken nose, could you kindly tell me where I am going wrong
Is that all? Harry ji, If you're still intact (you know what I mean), :swordfight-kudiyan:
I'd say you got off easy. :angryyoungkaur:
- Jan 31, 2011
- 5,769
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- 54
lets just say all religions are now open to me!
Taranjeet singh
SPNer
Want and need are synonyms as per dictionary.com However, there may be a hairline difference between want and need. Taking a cue from the earlier posts …
Sex is a ‘need’ when wanted and ‘want’ when needed and in both cases it is so strong that rigid classification may not be possible as this want, that we need so often that for the want of which we feel that it is a need though in reality it may only be an urge or a craving that may fall in between need and want or may not be directly related to these.
Satisfied with my need today, I want more of it tomorrow and satisfied with this want tomorrow, I need the same the next day. Each day it is different.
Sex is gift of nature and I go by nature without thinking of want or need as Lucky ji stated above it just happens. Sikhi permits the fulfillment of this demand and as sex has no expiry date we all continue this activity till we live. However, Moderation is the key even though I would like to taste them all.
I have not reached the state where I find sex more than a physical pleasure. May be with time ....
Sex and Procreation
ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਓਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਹੀ
But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh.
ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ
In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh
Sex is a ‘need’ when wanted and ‘want’ when needed and in both cases it is so strong that rigid classification may not be possible as this want, that we need so often that for the want of which we feel that it is a need though in reality it may only be an urge or a craving that may fall in between need and want or may not be directly related to these.
Satisfied with my need today, I want more of it tomorrow and satisfied with this want tomorrow, I need the same the next day. Each day it is different.
Sex is gift of nature and I go by nature without thinking of want or need as Lucky ji stated above it just happens. Sikhi permits the fulfillment of this demand and as sex has no expiry date we all continue this activity till we live. However, Moderation is the key even though I would like to taste them all.
I have not reached the state where I find sex more than a physical pleasure. May be with time ....
Sex and Procreation
ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਓਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਹੀ
But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh.
ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ
In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh
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A couple of guys have said-
'You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need.'
'You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need.'
Need = Oxygen
Want = Air conditioning
Need = Water
Want = Nimbu Pani
That does make sense
All in all we have Kaam in us all the time, which will confuse a need to be a want!
Want = Air conditioning
Need = Water
Want = Nimbu Pani
That does make sense
All in all we have Kaam in us all the time, which will confuse a need to be a want!
In short:
Sexual intercourse is:
1. necessary for the survival of the species.
2. unnecessary (but highly desirable) for any given individual.
Of course, technology has made it possible to make babies in other ways.
busyknitting
Sexual intercourse is:
1. necessary for the survival of the species.
2. unnecessary (but highly desirable) for any given individual.
Of course, technology has made it possible to make babies in other ways.
busyknitting
I'm going to drive south down to Beverly Hills this weekend and I will stop by the Playboy mansion for this weekends party.
I will ask Mr Heffner this question of need or want, as I think he would be able to give me the best confirmed and true answer!!!!!!!!cheerleader
I will ask Mr Heffner this question of need or want, as I think he would be able to give me the best confirmed and true answer!!!!!!!!cheerleader
Bhagat Kabir Ji writes that BIND RAKHIYEAH..meaning ABSTINENCE/ABSENCE of sex/Virginity/Brahmchareeism/Virtual Marriage (like the Nuns do in Christianity)..ALL dont necessarily lead to HIM/Mukt /enlightened.......if this did that..then the Eunuchs, the sex-less men and women born without sex organs..etc etc would be automatically saved/mukt enlightened...Enlightenment muktee etc has to be EARNED via ACTIONS...
But just as in the Meat-Daal controversy people misinterpret this tuk. Its NOT a condemnation of sex neither is it a Carte Blanche free for all encouragemnet to sex for all...SGGS advocates MODERATION and MODERATION and MORE MODERATION.period.
Moderation in all things, including moderation. icecreamkudi
You are not running away from things, you are neither running towards things. You are just standing, or better, sitting in meditation of Akaal Purakh!
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