Sects Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth And The Radha Soami

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

vaheguruseekr ji
I dont understand that how can a liar, dishonest, and an unintelligent person like me, can bother you, by his posts? How can my unintelligent babbles make you jump into every conversation that i am into?
Anyway i will give you your answers.

originaly written by vaheguru seeker ji

Nothing is known for sure what Guru ji actually said.

Popular "opinion" is that he[Gurugobind singh] declared both Khalsa and Guru Granth as
Guru - Guru panth Guru Granth


Prahlad Singh wrote :
* Guru Khalsa Manyo Prakat Guran Ki Deh
* Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahe Khoj Sabad Mein Leh.
Source:: Sikhism Philosophy Network http://www.sikhism.us/showthread.php?t=3214

Please note that Bhai Prahlad Singh wrote that Guru Granth Sahib is
the Guru, but the Deh (body) of the Guru is the Khalsa. (As Guru
Gobind Singh himself said that 5 Khalsa's - Panj Pyare are equal
to the Guru)


Giani Gian Singh wrote :
Guru Granth Ji manyo pargat Guran ki deh
Jo Prabhu ko milbo chahe khoj shabad mein le

....

"Agya Bhai Akal Ki Tabe Chalyo PanthSabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo
Granth" is common in both
...

Now in Gurdwaras Gian Singh's version is prevalent, though Gian Singh
was a Nirmala Sikh and wrote it in the last quarter of the 19th century.
There is a strong "tradition" behind Giani Gian Singh's Dohra

These are the traditional beliefs and opinions that i am talking about. These are the traditions according to which people try to mold and restructure the gurbani. Which is very foolish, because these traditions originate from the people who were way below than the calibre of gurugobind singh ji and the rest of the sikh gurus.

Rest of the answers i will give in my next post,
i am in a hurry right now.

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Yes, I agree. Gurbani is beautiful. It is also our Guide and our Guru. It teaches us to build the framework from the within so we are capable of breeding goodness within and share with others.

You use the words "we","us" and "our" in your posts so many times, why do you include a group into whatever you are claiming? Because you are the only one who is posting, or tell me if you decide your posts in a meeting of 40 or 50 people. Or you are their leader or a representative.
Why cant you just use the words " i ", "me"and "mine"? Either you are insecure or you feel that the words "we", "us" and "our" sound dominating.

And you cannot figure out what gurbani says.
"Breeding goodness within" thats it???? You have just reduced gurbani into a morality lecture. If that is what you feel that gurbani is all about, then i will not argue with you anymore. You can breed whatever you want. You can prove whatever you want. You can declare whatever you want. I wont disturb you anyfurther.

Sikhi is a way of life not a belief system because beliefs can change anytime. Your claim seems a bit confusing and contradictory.

Yes sikhi is a way of life, but it has been corrupted by the traditions. I sound a bit confusing and contradictory to you because you have been used to your traditions, and i am anti-traditional.

Once again you are contradicting yourself. You mean you respect the teacher, which is Gurbani but disrespect the student who is learning from the teacher?

No.It is not a contradiction, may be you dont know what a contradiction really is.
There is a difference between the teacher and the students. It would have been a contradiction if i had praised and then criticised the teacher, at the same time. Or if i had praised and criticised the students at the same time. You run into conclusions very quickly. Please read my posts carefully.

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu ji

You must also re-read what Vaheguruseekr has written. Carefully. It is not enough to say that you are anti-traditional -- and so anyone who does not "get" what you are saying won't be able to understand "it" until they understand you and your anti-traditional point of view. This is nothing more than saying that you don't want to take the time to explain and clarify. That way you can immunize yourself from having to have a real conversation in which your opinions are challenged. Let's take a look at what you and Tejwant have said.

You use the words "we","us" and "our" in your posts so many times, why do you include a group into whatever you are claiming? Because you are the only one who is posting, or tell me if you decide your posts in a meeting of 40 or 50 people. Or you are their leader or a representative.

If there any Sikhs out there in the forum who disagree with Tejwant's use of "we", "us" and "our" they will surely make themselves read and heard. So far no one has. If no one is posting. it may mean that Tejwant is managing quite well. and there is no need to add. You said, "Because you are the only one who is posting, or tell me if you decide your posts in a meeting of 40 or 50 people. Or you are their leader or a representative." You know you are being a tad sarcastic.

And you cannot figure out what gurbani says. What does Gurbani say according to your understanding? If someone disagrees with your vichaar, how will you take the criticism?

"Breeding goodness within" thats it???? You have just reduced gurbani into a morality lecture.

Tejwant ji has not "reduced" Gurbani to a "morality lecture." He has raised understanding of Gurbani to the moral level. That was indeed Guru Nanak's purpose -- to bring the experience of spirituality down to earth -- that we may see how the words of the Guru are relevant in our daily lives. Everywhere in Gurbani we read and hear morality: from something as specific as the hymn about the destruction of Lahore, to something very esoteric like the pain of the soul-bride who decorates herself but is not pleasing to her Husband Lord, to the most direct teaching regarding the spiritual sickness that results from attachments to self and the 5 evils. Sikhism is about what happens after samadhi. Guru Nanak had enough of sadhus who figured out how to escape through the 3rd eye, but did nothing to alleviate the suffering and corruption around them while they waited for gifts, money and tribute from the very ones who suffered.

If that is what you feel that gurbani is all about, then i will not argue with you anymore. Gurbani is more than poetry that makes you feel good. You can breed whatever you want. You can prove whatever you want. You can declare whatever you want. I wont disturb you anyfurther.

Why disturb in the first place?

Yes sikhi is a way of life, but it has been corrupted by the traditions. I sound a bit confusing and contradictory to you because you have been used to your traditions, and i am anti-traditional.

How do you know that Tejwant is "traditional" and how do you define "traditional?" Until we can agree on a definition, how can we know whether anyone is traditional?

BTW the use of the term "long tradition" in Tejwant's message means that there is a lengthy stream of shared writing and opinion that spans several generations of scholars. It has nothing to do with your use of the word.

No.It is not a contradiction, may be you dont know what a contradiction really is.

Do you?

There is a difference between the teacher and the students. It would have been a contradiction if i had praised and then criticised the teacher, at the same time. Or if i had praised and criticised the students at the same time.

No that is not a good example of what a contradiction is. Contradiction is:

• opposition between two conflicting forces or ideas
• (logic) a statement that is necessarily false; "the statement `he is brave and he is not brave' is a contradiction"
• the speech act of contradicting someone; "he spoke as if he thought his claims were immune to contradiction"
  wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Praising and criticising at the same time could be making a complete appraisal. Or it could mean that one is undecided. But it is not a contradiction.

You run into conclusions very quickly. And you do not?

Please read my posts carefully.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu ji,

Guru Fateh.

You seem a bit angry and upset. I apologise if my posts have created this in you. It was not the intention. We are all here to interact and learn from each other. Disagreement is a learning process.

You use the words "we","us" and "our" in your posts so many times, why do you include a group into whatever you are claiming? Because you are the only one who is posting, or tell me if you decide your posts in a meeting of 40 or 50 people. Or you are their leader or a representative.
Why cant you just use the words " i ", "me"and "mine"? Either you are insecure or you feel that the words "we", "us" and "our" sound dominating.

We means Sikhs that are interacting here because we are talking about our Guru-SGGS. I am sorry if this makes you feel uneasy.

And you cannot figure out what gurbani says.

"Breeding goodness within" thats it???? You have just reduced gurbani into a morality lecture. If that is what you feel that gurbani is all about, then i will not argue with you anymore. You can breed whatever you want. You can prove whatever you want. You can declare whatever you want. I wont disturb you anyfurther

.

What is not good about breeding goodness within? Can you please elaborate your outrage and anger about it? And as I said before it is ok to disagree but it is always wise to give reasons for that. Then only interaction can go further. So please state what else would you like to add besides breeding goodness. As Sikh means a learner, I am ready to learn from you.

Yes sikhi is a way of life, but it has been corrupted by the traditions. I sound a bit confusing and contradictory to you because you have been used to your traditions, and i am anti-traditional.

I am still waiting for your defintion in an elaborate manner for the word TRADITIONS as requested before.

I am also waiting for you to share with us what your deh dhari Gurus have taught you so we can all learn from it.

Once again, I have no intention of making you angry or upset. Anger breeds disdain and makes our thought process cloudier than before.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[pk70]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu ji
You condemn the basics of Sikhism without even understanding them. I shall prove it how
There is a clause “barking of the dogs” please do not take it in its literal meaning. This clause conveys two meanings. When dogs bark uselessly, it is advised to ignore it as futile commotion. When dogs bark to alert police or their owners, it becomes useful. All your posts always fail to fall into the second category of “Barking of the dogs” Why? They don’t say any thing but criticism. Most of the time, it originates from your ignorance about Sikhi. You conclude that all Sikhs just worship a holy book. That is a proof of your ignorance. That is why you never go beyond first kind of “barking of the dogs”
You believe that for enlightenment living Guru is needed. Well, that is your opinion, or that is your need, how can you conclude that all need what you need or feel? This is the second reason you never pass that first category of “barking of the dogs. When you are asked about your living Guru, you shy away? Why? Sikhs don’t. They say their Guru is Guru Nanak, though he departed physically but His thought is alive very well in Sree Guru Granth Sahib. Unlike you Sikhs are clear(reread the posts). If you don’t have path, if you don’t have a living Guru then for what purpose you are here? Are you here to learn and share or just criticize Sikhism? You haven’t shown so far either learning or sharing behavior. So far you are just criticizing Sikh’s anti Dehdhari – Guru stand, their acceptance of Sree Guru Granth Sahib as the final Guru, failure of Sikh leaders to lead the Sikh youth, failure of Sikhs to attain enlightenment etc etc
Simply criticizing others does not make one right or on right path. There is a lot of stuff so called Sikhs are doing and I don’t believe in because I learned it from Sree Guru Granth Sahib, so Guru guides on. So far you have failed to go beyond Guru Nanak’s physical appearance in contexts of Sikhs faith in him. Let me surprise you with your own admission, as you don’t see difference between worshiping an idol and a book, there is no difference between worshiping an idol and a living human being either, reason is the same, the Essence is missed out in both ways. Repeatedly Sree Guru Granth asks its follower to concentrate on HIM only, try to see Him only, to go above all garbage and see Him permeating in all by over coming ego etc, it serves the Guru Purpose. Sikhs do not need a written proof to call SGGS a Guru because it says, “ Guru Hai bani”, that alone seals the fate of so called “ Dehdhari Gurus” for the Sikhs. All is inside, if mind is ready, the thought given by Sree Guru Granth Sahib Can help, if mind is not ready nothing/no body can help it. Your repeated criticism of accepting Sree Guru Granth Sahib as Guru is nothing more than your own ignorance some how you have fallen into it. Why don’t you share with us about your living Guru, if you don’t have any, whom you are considering to be your living Guru by giving that persons’ lists of virtuous deeds in the field of spirituality? After all you have been advocating in favor of a living Guru. If you don’t need any Guru, why is all this fuss about living Guru?. If you still remain evasive to these requests, you are just trolling.:whisling:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

PK70 Ji..You have done what is called Kujjeh wich samundar..The Ocean into the drinking vessel.
Nothing left to be said. Thanks for setting the record straight..as always.To Sikhs there is no other and no need for any other GURU except the SGGS ONLY...as this si the sarab kala sampooran GURU for all time.:welcome::happy::yes:

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

pk 70 ji

You condemn the basics of Sikhism without even understanding them. I shall prove it how

No, i dont. I condemn your stupid traditions. Which i have elaborated in my previous post two times.
And whatever you are proving becomes useless. Because i never condemned any so called "basics of sikhism". Furthermore there is no such thing as basics of sikhism.

There is a clause “barking of the dogs” please do not take it in its literal meaning. This clause conveys two meanings. When dogs bark uselessly, it is advised to ignore it as futile commotion. When dogs bark to alert police or their owners, it becomes useful. All your posts always fail to fall into the second category of “Barking of the dogs” Why? They don’t say any thing but criticism. Most of the time, it originates from your ignorance about Sikhi. You conclude that all Sikhs just worship a holy book. That is a proof of your ignorance. That is why you never go beyond first kind of “barking of the dogs”

What a wonderful example.

You believe that for enlightenment living Guru is needed. Well, that is your opinion, or that is your need, how can you conclude that all need what you need or feel?

It is not my opinion in the first place, it is what your gurugranthsahib is saying. And neither i am concluding anything, gurugranth sahib has concluded already. You may deviate its meanings into some other direction, that is a different issue.

Are you here to learn and share or just criticize Sikhism?

And again you got me wrong, i never critisize sikhism, whatever i criticize is not sikhism, it is something way below than sikhism. Something that is wearing a mask of sikhism, but not sikhism.

. So far you are just criticizing Sikh’s anti Dehdhari – Guru stand, their acceptance of Sree Guru Granth Sahib as the final Guru, failure of Sikh leaders to lead the Sikh youth, failure of Sikhs to attain enlightenment etc etc

Yes, now you got me perfectly right.
I am not against sikhism, but i am against their stands, because the roots of their stands are not in gurugranth sahib. And because the base of their stands is not in gurugranth sahib, i dont even consider them as sikhs. And that is the reason of the failure of so called sikhs and their leaders.

as you don’t see difference between worshiping an idol and a book, there is no difference between worshiping an idol and a living human being either, reason is the same, the Essence is missed out in both ways.

Exactly, essence is missed in both. But i never said that you have to worship a living guru. And gurugranthsahib is definitely worshipped, like the hindus worship idols in temples.

Repeatedly Sree Guru Granth asks its follower to concentrate on HIM only, try to see Him only, to go above all garbage and see Him permeating in all by over coming ego etc, it serves the Guru Purpose.

Till now it has not served the guru purpose. If it had served its purpose, the condition of sikhs in todays world would have been much better.
The condition of sikhs is a proof, that it is not serving its guruship purpose.
And i am not talking about just a few sikhs, i am talking about more than 80 percent sikhs. If gurugranthsahib had served its guru purpose, then we would have never had a human guru in every single village of punjab. You go anywhere in punjab, and you will find a baba, or a guru. And lakhs of people following them. Yes they are fake but so what, people are impressed by them, more than the granth.

Sikhs do not need a written proof to call SGGS a Guru because it says, “ Guru Hai bani”, that alone seals the fate of so called “ Dehdhari Gurus” for the Sikhs.

And where do you think this bani came from? Now let me surprise you, it came from the deh dharis, not from space. Bani is the fragrance of dehdharis when they are in their body. When the bani is written it is not bani, it is a set of words. And fragrance of a flower cannot be contained in a container for the future. When the flower is gone, the fragrance is gone with it. Yes you can write explanations of the fragrance in your books, but just explanations, not the fragrance itself. Granth is the explanation of the fragrance, not the fragrance, because it cannot be. It is practically impossible, i posted about this in my previous posts. The condition of the sikhs is a proof that it was not the fragrance, but just the explanation of fragrance.

 

[dalbirk]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

ANSWERS TO THE DOUBTS OF LIVING GURUS AND THEIR GURUDOM ​

Many supporters of living guru cult express their opinion that Sri Guru Granth Sahib is just a book that does not speak . If one is educated , one may read what is written, otherwise someone will have to read out to you & it may help in understanding . One the contrary , a living Guru explains all his sermons himself . How can then a book be a Guru ?

Let us first see how we acquire knowlede about our environment and everything around us that concerns us.We use our five sense organs to acquire this knowledge. We develop a picture of the things by looking at them;smelling them,tasting,hearing or touching them . We recogonise articles with the help of any one or all the five senses .

Shabad in fact is sound or voice. Sound is produced by the collision of two items. We acquire knowledge through sound or understand the finer aspects of everything through sound. Let us say, a man is sitting in a closed room and it is raining outside. As soon as he hears the tip-tap of raindrops, he declares that it is raining outside. He hasn't seen the rain falling;he comes to this conclusion from the mere sound(Shabad)
Of the water drops & he is right .
When you are travelling in the mountains and deep down in the valley there is a river flowing. The impact of the gushing water when it strikes boulders produce sound that enables us to conclude that there is a river flowing nearby .You haven't seen the river but has just heard the sound/noise of flowing water. So you correctly inferred that there is a river flowing down in the valley.
The written expression of the sound is Shabad. As we heard the rain drops or noise of the flowing water, we concluded that it was raining or a river was flowing, so can we learn about various things of the world through sound (Shabad).
Whatever a man does, he does it on the basis of hearing or seeing. Though the sound can be heard by the ears yet the Shabad can be seen by the eyes as well as heard by, the ears. Therefore one can conclude that 'Shabad' is an exclusive mean that provide us knowledge and understanding through hearing, reading and seeing.
What is Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ? A compilation of Shabad. As the 'Shabad' teaches us about the worldly things so would the Guru's Shabad teach us about God and spirituality. We call it Guru (Teacher) and accept it as such. Some body's physical structure/body can't be Guru. The divine light dwelling in him and the propagation of that light through the Shabad can only be called Guru.
Who says that Sri Guru Granth Sahib do not talk ? Its sound reaches our inner self through our eyes. Eyes and ears both are organs of knowledge. It is not necessary that knowledge can only be imparted by the word of mouth. It is also not necessary that one should acquire knowledge when somebody or something has said some words or produced some sound. For instance, a man has to go to Shimla. He reaches a cross road during the course of his journey. The crossing has a cement post erected. It bears four indicator plates, each pointing towards the four roads. One plate reads Chandigarh, the second Ambala, the third Patiala and the fourth bears the words Shimla. The seeker of the route would be able to know which road he has to follow from these plates So,did the post speak out the route to Shimla and directed the traveller which road to follow?
As the ears convey information to our brain after hearing some sound, the eyes convey information similarly after reading. To act or not to act is the task of the mind and motivates the body to commence action. As the traveller reaches Shimla after reading the plate at the crossing, so would a man reach his destination of God realisation after reading “Gur pharmaey gursikh karna" and moulding his life in accordance with Gurbani.
Yet another excuse is offered by those supporting the living guru concept that in case a person is illiterate, how would he understand the treasure of knowledge given in Sri Guru Granth Sahib? To redle and explain it to him, he needs a living guide or guru .
The answer is simple. One who reads and explains the Gurbani to us can't be the guru. Let us say there is an illiterate woman. Her husband has gone out of station. He writes a letter to his wife. His wife feels happy on receiving the letter but she can't read the letter herself. She makes a request to an educated person to read out that letter to her. That person reads out the letter and explains all the contents of it. He even reads out the amorous words like. 'My dear wife’, Now if the reader thinks she is his wife,it would be height of foolishness on his part.
As the letter reader can't be the husband of the woman, her husband is he who had written the letter to her. so would the Guru be who had recited and composed the Bani. Anyone who read it or explains it can’t be the Guru .
Another question that is generally asked is who would tell the meanings of Gurbani ?Therefore, there is a need of living Guru.
The answer is simple. Those who received the Bani from the formless Lord, and composed/compiled it for guidance are our Gurus. Those who explain these compositions cannot be compared with the creator . A teacher explains the laws researched by scientists ; yet the teacher cannot be that scientists nor do they claim to be them .A person who explains the meanings of Gurbani can be a Gurmukh , a Sikh , a Giani but not a Guru , because his relationship with Gurbani is no different than ours .
Yet another question is posed by lesser wise men that Gurbani sings the praises of Guru & Nam , so it can’t be Guru or Nam itself .
Such misunderstandings mainly crop up when thses people do not study the Gurbani a little more deeply . It is in no way separate from it . Nam resides in Gurbani.Nam is achieved & received from Gurbani itself .
Gurbani varti jag antar(i)
Is(u) bani ley her(i) nam paida

(Page 1066)

Many supporters of living Guru cult quote the following lines of Gurbani to express another doubt in their minds.
Gur key charn ridai lai dharo (Page 864)
Charn(The feet) can only belong to a living guru and not of Gurbani. So where should one concentrate ?
the answer is not difficult to understand. Charn here does not mean feet made of bones and flesh .To practice recitation of Gurshabad, meditation on it with singular attention & concentration of mind is what keeping Gurus’ feet in heart is . If the misconception is carried further would any devotee cut open his chest & place his living Guru’s feet in his heart through this opening ? The word Charn has been used very frequently in Gurbani in the meaning of Guru’s memory & concentrated reflection on his sermons .


Gur key charn hirdai vasaey murhey,
pk:hhatey guntih sabh(i) bakhsh(i) trai. (Page 435)
Cham kamal sang(i) prit(i) kalmal pap trai.

(Page 459) Cham kumal hirdai uaseh sankut sabhfi) khovai. [Page 322) ​

Charn kamal ki as piairey,
Jam kankar nas(i) gaey vicharey.

(Page 389)

If the requirement is to reflect on the feet of a living Guru with eyes alone. How would a blind man then focus his eyes on them ?Secondly how can the concentration on the feet which are perishable help a man realise God who is indestructible ? The word of the Guru provides us the correct means to realize God. This alone can take us to him
Some supporters of the living guru concept say that Some people have magnetic personality which attract the Sikhs to him.
The force of attraction lies in the type of life one leads and not in the body. Body of all human being is the same since it is made of the same elements. The difference is in the conduct. Those who possess blemishless conduct would surely have that force of attraction. That attaraction is not in the body but in the charaacter and attitude in life. This effect would not disappear with the destruction of the body. Thus the deeds of the martyrs will live till the end of the world .
Many Sikhs preached Sikhism during the period of satguru ji. Baba Budha ji did in the time of Guru Nanak. Bhai Mansukh preached Sikhism as far away as Singladeep (Sri Lanka) and motivated king Shivnabh to accept Sikhism during the period of the third Guru, there were 22 seats established to propagate and preach Sikhism in India and in the neighbouring lands. The fourth Guru seeked Sikhs of high morality and character and appointed them Masands. They went far and wide to spread the gospel of Guru Nanak. During the times of fifth and sixth Gurus, Bhai Gurdas spread Sikhism in Agra and Kashi. Bhai Katloo and Bhai Garhia spread Sikhism in Kashmir, Bhai Govinda, Bhai Tiloka and Bhai Kataroo preached Sikhism in Kabul. Bhai Makhan Shah were responsible for spread of Sikhism during the times of eighth and nineth Gurus.All these personalities united the Sikhs with Guru but never with themselves. They never even had themselves addressed as Gurus .
The supporters also profess that a living guru not only sermonise but also help with his spirtual power and raise the soul of a Sikh to a higher plain.
The answer of this misconception is as follows_
We have already established with the help of Gurbani quotes that one can meet/realise God through Gurbani alone .Even now also the so called Gurus express their view through their words/tongue. If we subtract their sermons or counselling from their saying , then what would be left behind for there to keep their contact with their followers ?As far as the spiritual power is concerned, it only comes after one merges in divine light while still living in this world . ………..Contd………

 

[Tejwant Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu ji,

Guru Fateh.

From your chit chat with Jazz (read post# 1 and post#5) one can presume that you are a Radhasoami. It is just a presumption as you have been too insecure to say who your deh dhari Guru is despite many requests by myself and also by other members of the forum.

Are you a Radhasoami or do you belong to some other sect/s who use SGGS to lasso people and rake millions because of having SGGS?

How many deh Dhari Gurus do you have?

Please do not feel fearful about sharing it. As they say, "Truth shall set your free".

You seem to be in haste when you want to argue a point and attack us rather than debating it, hence distortions and false untrue statements, knowingly or unknowingly take place which has happened in your case once again.

When someone mentioned the following you jumped to your conclusions as usual and besides that you misquoted what I said.

Nothing is known for sure what Guru ji actually said.

As you seem to know a little about SGGS which your deh dhari Gurus are using as money machines, let me explain what this is all about.

You must be very well aware that SGGS has no writings from Guru Gobind Singh ji, although he added the Gurbani by his father, OUR 9th Guru, Guru Teg Bahadur ji. Because of this Sikh Panth has been going through growing pains about the writings of Guru Gobind Singh ji. As Sikhs- students this is part of the learning process.

The title of the thread "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" is attributeed by many to Guru Gobind Singh ji which is not true. So in order to share what information was given on the other site called GLZ, I posted the following and also gave the URL.

Hence it was not my original writing as you falsely claimed in your post below.

You said:

originaly written by vaheguru seeker ji

I wrote:

The following was mentioned on GLZ site:


There is a section of Sikhs who believe that at Nander Sahib in 1708,
Dasam pita said that he would always be present in Sangat. He merged
his identity with Khalsa : "Guru Khalsa ji maneo pargat guran ki Deh".
However, they do accept that Guru ji did ordain Guru Granth Sahib as
the eternal Guru before his death when he teko matha to Adi Granth
with five paisa coins and a coconut. They fully revere and worship
Granth Sahib.

The Dohra was developed by Bhai Prahlad Singh, a contemporary of
Guru Gobind Singh ji and somewhat changed by Giani Gian Singh.
Nothing is known for sure what Guru ji actually said.

Popular opinion is that he declared both Khalsa and Guru Granth as
Guru - Guru panth Guru Granth


Prahlad Singh wrote :
* Guru Khalsa Manyo Prakat Guran Ki Deh
* Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahe Khoj Sabad Mein Leh.
Source:: Sikhism Philosophy Network http://www.sikhism.us/showthread.php?t=3214

Please note that Bhai Prahlad Singh wrote that Guru Granth Sahib is
the Guru, but the Deh (body) of the Guru is the Khalsa. (As Guru
Gobind Singh himself said that 5 Khalsa's - Panj Pyare are equal
to the Guru)


Giani Gian Singh wrote :
Guru Granth Ji manyo pargat Guran ki deh
Jo Prabhu ko milbo chahe khoj shabad mein le

....

"Agya Bhai Akal Ki Tabe Chalyo PanthSabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo
Granth" is common in both
...

Now in Gurdwaras Gian Singh's version is prevalent, though Gian Singh
was a Nirmala Sikh and wrote it in the last quarter of the 19th century.
There is a strong tradition behind Giani Gian Singh's Dohra

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-zone/messages

As you did not know what was being talked about due to the mental haste to attack, you responded with the following which had nothing to do with my post. Your post below is distorting,false and misleading, to say the least.

No one is trying to mold and restructure Gurbani as you claimed and then you blamed that on the traditions which is hillarious once again.

You statement below is totally false and misleading. Why give false statements to prove your hollow point?

These are the traditional beliefs and opinions that i am talking about. These are the traditions according to which people try to mold and restructure the gurbani. Which is very foolish, because these traditions originate from the people who were way below than the calibre of gurugobind singh ji and the rest of the sikh gurus.

i am in a hurry now.

One can notice that.

I am still waiting for the elaborate meaning of the term TRADITION used to accuse Sikhs quite often in your posts and also the name and traditions of your deh dhari Gurus that you claim you need hence must have one or 2 or may be more. If you do not know what you are talking about then be truthful to yourself and say so.

Tejwant Singh

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The name of my guru is Las Galpaso.
He lives in the himalayas with his wife Niso Diku.
He does not belong to any traditions or beliefs.
He has never heard about gurugranthsahib.
I can take you guys to him, if you want to pay a visit. He is a wonderful man.

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

sadhu ji

When did you first meet your guru and his wife?

 

[kds1980]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

I am not against sikhism, but i am against their stands, because the roots of their stands are not in gurugranth sahib. And because the base of their stands is not in gurugranth sahib, i dont even consider them as Sikhs. And that is the reason of the failure of so called Sikhs and their leaders.

I AM asking you again That to whom Gurgaddi Was Given In 1708.

 

[pk70]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

pk 70 ji.

No, i dont. I condemn your stupid traditions. Which i have elaborated in my previous post two times.
What is the tradition I supported? I never did,, don’t you look stupid?
And whatever you are proving becomes useless. Because i never condemned any so called "basics of sikhism". Furthermore there is no such thing as basics of sikhism.
Basics of Sikhism
Bani is Guru(SGGS) only because of this point it differs from all sects and sectarian philosophies and cults(Dehras and other living Guru Cults)
Bani is a Nectar (SGGS)
These are the two ones you condemned shamelessly. As per your own statement“there is no such thing as basics of Sikhism”, you have proved you are an ignorant man about Sikhism

It is not my opinion in the first place, it is what your gurugranthsahib is saying. And neither i am concluding anything, gurugranth sahib has concluded already. You may deviate its meanings into some other direction, that is a different issue.

And again you got me wrong, i never critisize sikhism, whatever i criticize is not sikhism, it is something way below than sikhism. Something that is wearing a mask of sikhism, but not sikhism.
Define Sikhism then
Yes, now you got me perfectly right.
I am not against sikhism, but i am against their stands, because the roots of their stands are not in gurugranth sahib.
“Bani is Guru” that alone states the stand of Sikhs, so they are following Sree Guru Granth Sahib, here you are just confused about this concept.
And because the base of their stands is not in gurugranth sahib, i dont even consider them as Sikhs. And that is the reason of the failure of so called Sikhs and their leaders.
I already stated above with support of Sree Guru Granth Sahib, your opinion about them that they are“ not Sikhs” is just useless commotion.

Exactly, essence is missed in both. But i never said that you have to worship a living guru. And gurugranthsahib is definitely worshipped, like the hindus worship idols in temples.
Well, here again, you are attacking all Sikhs based on some people, many people revere Sree Guru Granth Sahib because they seek guidance from the divine knowledge “set in” there and do not worship it at all like an idol. That is what you are picking on without knowing that all Sikhs do not worship Sree Guru Granth Sahib as an Idol, many posters who responded to your posts spoke against this practice here on that;. As I wrote before, it’s up to an individual to individual. Some get the message some don’t.

Till now it has not served the guru purpose. If it had served its purpose, the condition of Sikhs in todays world would have been much better.
How you can say that? Do you have computer data about that research? Assumptions are very close to illusions, sorry man you are victim of that especially in this regard. Have you met all Sikhs in the World? I couldn’t? I have witnessed change in people since they turned to Sreee Guru Granth Sahib.
The condition of Sikhs is a proof, that it is not serving its guruship purpose.
And i am not talking about just a few Sikhs, i am talking about more than 80 percent Sikhs.
What about twenty percent? Sree Guru Granth Sahib states a few will stick to this path, as per your admission, it is working. There were Sikhs gone stray during Guru Sahiban too, all the same there were exemplary Sikhs, its human weakness for Maya that is not right measure to attack whole community.
If gurugranthsahib had served its guru purpose, then we would have never had a human guru in every single village of punjab. You go anywhere in punjab, and you will find a baba, or a guru. And lakhs of people following them. Yes they are fake but so what, people are impressed by them, more than the granth.
I stated before, obviously you have short memory. A teacher teaches all students, some get exceptional marks, some pass and some fail, only a stupid man can accuse the teacher. Regarding the plight of people of Punjab, there are many reasons behind it, surprisingly Sree Guru Granth Sahib hasn’t contributed any thing to it. Wake up man stop accusing it without any reason

And where do you think this bani came from? Now let me surprise you, it came from the deh dharis, not from space.
Yes Mister, Bani came, Gurus left leaving Bani behind, Sikhs as per direction in Guru Bani, are following Gurbani as their Guru. Why it has become very hard to swallow?

Bani is the fragrance of dehdharis when they are in their body. When the bani is written it is not bani, it is a set of words
You obliviously do not know strength and application of words. Words are medium of that fragrance, every time you read them, you have it.
. And fragrance of a flower cannot be contained in a container for the future.
There is a difference between fragrance of flowers and thought, person’s fragrance is in his/her thoughts and words are the medium to contain that fragrance, you are just stuck with flower fragrance and incorrectly compared fragrance of flower with the fragrance of the body because its not the fragrance of body that is held high by humans but of thought.

When the flower is gone, the fragrance is gone with it
As stated above, when flower is gone, its fragrance gone but when body is gone, its produced thought and its fragrance is contained in the words. Remember you referred Rumi,? He is gone but thought of his fragrance can be smelled from his poetry well contained in words.
Yes you can write explanations of the fragrance in your books, but just explanations, not the fragrance itself.
Explanation actually secures the fragrance; I just wonder what you are thinking!!!!

Granth is the explanation of the fragrance, not the fragrance, because it cannot be.

Sree Guru Granth Sahib holds that fragrance as stated above. Your fragrance is your thoughts not your body.
It is practically impossible, i posted about this in my previous posts. The condition of the Sikhs is a proof that it was not the fragrance, but just the explanation of fragrance.
That is just only your own narrow thought; whole world enjoys the fragrance of past Masters and living Masters as well through their books. Unfortunately it is you only who has failed to enjoy that part of miracles of the words.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The name of my guru is Las Galpaso.
He lives in the himalayas with his wife Niso Diku.
He does not belong to any traditions or beliefs.
He has never heard about gurugranthsahib.
I can take you guys to him, if you want to pay a visit. He is a wonderful man.

Sadhu ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for sharing about your Guru. It was not that difficult as you thought it must have been. Or was it?

Now please elaborate what is the modus operandi of your Deh Guru?

What tools does he use to teach you?

How did he become a Guru?

What and whose tradition did he follow to become a Guru?

Can you post his and his wife's picture in the forum please?

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[lalihayer]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The name of my guru is Las Galpaso.
He lives in the himalayas with his wife Niso Diku.

You mean that Las Galpaso, who claims to open one's Dasam Duar in only one sitting and who claims to make his chelas hear Anhad Nad just by pushing fingers into your ears?
And good thing is that you don't have to listen to what he says. :whisling:

I salute:worship:
So that's how you know hundreds of people who had reached God.

 

[Astroboy]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu Ji quoted

Why would gurunanak call himself a guru? There is no point to call oneself a guru.
If someone claims that he is a guru, then definitely he is not worthy of being called a guru. A guru will never declare himself a guru. So gurunanak never did this.

Sadhu Ji,

I have heard this explanation before from a RSSB follower. So there seems to be a tradition that runs around and comes around. Hitler said that if you lie the same thing many times over, it would be believed to be a truth. Guru Nanak broke the binding spells of such told over lies and freed us from them. Now you're trying to make us believe in them again?

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
आसा महला ५ ॥
Āsā mėhlā 5.
Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

ਤੀਰਥਿ ਜਾਉ ਤ ਹਉ ਹਉ ਕਰਤੇ ॥
तीरथि जाउ त हउ हउ करते ॥
Ŧirath jā▫o ṯa ha▫o ha▫o karṯe.
Journeying to sacred shrines of pilgrimage, I see the mortals acting in ego.

ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪੂਛਉ ਤ ਮਾਇਆ ਰਾਤੇ ॥੧॥
पंडित पूछउ त माइआ राते ॥१॥
Pandiṯ pūcẖẖa▫o ṯa mā▫i▫ā rāṯe. ||1||
If I ask the Pandits, I find them tainted by Maya. ||1||

ਸੋ ਅਸਥਾਨੁ ਬਤਾਵਹੁ ਮੀਤਾ ॥
सो असथानु बतावहु मीता ॥
So asthān baṯāvhu mīṯā.
Show me that place, O friend,

ਜਾ ਕੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਨੀਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जा कै हरि हरि कीरतनु नीता ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jā kai har har kīrṯan nīṯā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
where the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises are forever sung. ||1||Pause||

ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਵੀਚਾਰ ॥
सासत्र बेद पाप पुंन वीचार ॥
Sāsṯar beḏ pāp punn vīcẖār.
The Shaastras and the Vedas speak of sin and virtue;

ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਅਉਤਾਰ ॥੨॥
नरकि सुरगि फिरि फिरि अउतार ॥२॥
Narak surag fir fir a▫uṯār. ||2||
they say that mortals are reincarnated into heaven and hell, over and over again. ||2||

 

[Astroboy]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

We are ignoring the outer guru, who could have helped us to find the inner guru.
We wont reach anywhere with this attitude.

ਘਾਟਿ ਨ ਕਿਨ ਹੀ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥
घाटि न किन ही कहाइआ ॥
Gẖāt na kin hī kahā▫i▫ā.
Of these, no one admits to any deficiency;

ਸਭ ਕਹਤੇ ਹੈ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
सभ कहते है पाइआ ॥
Sabẖ kahṯe hai pā▫i▫ā.
all say that they have found the Lord.
(Ang 71)

.............................................................................

No doubt the guru is within, but the one who tells us the techinque to find the inner guru is also a guru. Infact when you find your inner guru, your respect and love for the outer guru will increase manyfolds.

ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਨੇਕਾ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੰਤਾ ਕਹਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਹੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਗੁਣ ਕੇਤੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
तेरे नाम अनेका रूप अनंता कहणु न जाही तेरे गुण केते ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ŧere nām anekā rūp ananṯā kahaṇ na jāhī ṯere guṇ keṯe. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Your Names are so many, and Your Forms are endless.
No one can tell how may Glorious Virtues You have. ||1||Pause||
(Ang 358)

 

[Astroboy]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu Ji,

We don't need a biological physical guru because Guru gives wisdom; we need the guru's everlasting wisdom and not his perishable body. Where else will one go to find the wisdom of 15 Bhagats plus 6 Gurus+Bhatts, and many more authors of gurbani.

I presume you have not given a serious thought about the pure wisdom in SGGS. You say you belong to a churchless church. Well, so did this guy,
Church of the Churchless: Sant Mat?s ?five holy names? aren?t so holy

 

[Astroboy]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The authors of Guru Granth Sahib can be divided into following categories:
(i) Gurus
Guru Nanak - Composed Bani in 19 Raags viz Sri, Majh Gauri, Asa. Gurjri, Wadhans, Sorath, Dhanasri, Tilang, Suhi, Bilawal, Ramkali,.Tukhari, Bhairav, Basant, Sarang, Malaar and Prabhati. The total number of compositions are 974.
Guru Angad - Composed only 62 sloaks which have been incorporated in vars.
Guru Amardas - Composed Bani in 17 Raags,all the Raags used by Guru Nanak except Tilang and Tukhari. Total number of compositions are 907.
Guru Ramdas - Composed Bani in 29 Raags, all the Raags used in Guru Granth Sahib (except Raag Kedara and Jai Jai Vanti). Total number of compositions are 679.
Guru Arjan - composed Bani in 30 Raags, all the Raags used in Guru Granth Sahib except Raag jai Jai Vanti. Total compositions are 2218.
Guru Hargobind - It is said that he added tunes to 9 vars out of a total of 24 vars. These vars are: Majh Di Var, Gauri Di Var, Asa Di Var, Wadhans Di Var, Gujri Di Var, Ramkali Di Var, Sarang di Var; Malaar Di Var and Kanta Di Var.
Guru Tegh Bahadur - Composed Bani in 15 Raags which are: Gauri, Asa, Gujri, Bihagra,
Sorath, Jaitsri, Dhanasri, Todi, Tilang. Bilawal, Rankali Maru Basant, Sarang and Jai Jai Vanti. The Raag Jai Jai Vanti has been used only by Guru Tegh Bahadur. Total number of compositions are 115.
Guru Gobind Singh - It is said that there is one Sloak (page 1429 Sloak number 54) composed by Guru Gobind Singh.
(ii) The relatives of the Sikh Gurus
Baba Sundar - Sundar was the great grandson of Guru Amardas. There is one hymn of six verses in Raag Ramkali composed by Baba Sundar (page 923). It is said that this hymn was composed by Baba Sundar at the death of Guru Amardas.

(iii) The Musicians/Bards of the Sikh Gurus
Mardana - He was companion and musician of Guru Nanak. There are 3 sloaks of Mardana in Bihagra Di Var ( page 553). Sata & Balwand - They were bards in the court of Guru Angad. Once in their ego they thought that the glory of Guru’s house was due to their singing. They resigned and did not come to the Guru. After a few days they realized their folly and came back to the Guru for forgiveness. They were duly forgiven. There is a Var in praise of the Guru in Guru Granth Sahib, in Raag Ramkali (page 966).
(iv) The Bhagats

1. Sheikh Farid - composed hymns in Raags Asa and Suhi. Total compositions are 134.
2. Jai Dev - composed hymns in Raags Gujri and Maru. Total compositions are 2.
3. Kabir - composed Bani in 17 Raags Viz Sri, Gauri, Asa, Gujri, Sorath, Dhanasri, Tilang, Suhi, Bilawal, Gauri, Rankali, Maru, Kedara, Bharav, Basant, Sarang and Malar, Kanra, Prabhati. Total compositions are 541.
4. Namdav - Composed Bani in 17 Raags viz Gauri, Asa, Gujri, Sorath, Dhanasri, Todi, Tilang, Bilawal, Guara, Ramkali, Mali-Guara, Maru, Bhairav, Basant Sarang, Malar, Kanra, Prabhati. Total compositions are 60.
5. Ravidas - Composed Bani in 16 Raags viz Sri, Gauri, Asa, Gujri, Sorath, Dhanasri, Jaitsri, Suhi, Gaur, Bilawal, Ramkali, Maru, Kedara, Bharav, Basant and Malaar. Total compositions are 41.
6. Beni - Composed Bani in Raags Sri, Ramkali and Prabhati. Total compositions are 3.
7. Trilochan - Composed Bani in Raags Sri, Gujri and Shanasri. Total compositions are 4.
8. Ramanand - Composed one hymn in Raag Basant.
9. Dhanna - Composed four hymns in Raags Asa and Dhanasri.
10. Bhikhan - Composed two hymns in Raag Sorath.
11. Sadhna - Composed one hymn in Raag Bilawal.
12. Pipa - Composed one hymn in Raag Dhanansri.
13. Sain - Composed one hymn in Raag Dhanansri.
14. Parmanand - Composed one hymn in Raag Sarang.
15. Surdas - Composed one verse in Raag Sarang.
(v) The court (House of the Gurus) poets:
Their number differs from author to author. One school of historians counts them as 17 whereas the other school counts them as 11. They have composed Swayas in the praise of the first five Gurus. These Swayas have been recorded on pages 1389-1409 and are 123 in number.
1.12 The Beginning Verse/Hymns of the Raags/Chapters

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

lali hayer ji

You mean that Las Galpaso, who claims to open one's Dasam Duar in only one sitting and who claims to make his chelas hear Anhad Nad just by pushing fingers into your ears?

Did you meet him?