Sects Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth And The Radha Soami

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

gyaini jarnail singh ji

Can you please explain me the meaning of the words "sidh ghost" and the word "shabd guru"?

Hundreds and millions of people have been martyrs all over the world, that does not mean that they had experienced god. They definitely were dedicated and enthusiastic, but that does not neccessarily means that they had experienced god. Thousands of men died and were called martyrs during 1984 riots, but that does not mean that they had experienced god.

Neither the Sikh Gurus or the SGGS states that OURS is the ONLY WAY. So that negates any others who may have attained God...that is under His Hukm. Fore those who beleive in SGGS..the Shabad GURU is the ONLY WAY and ENOUGH.....

Thanks, this is what i am trying to say, that sikhism is not the only way to reach god, and their are many other ways by which one can reach god, and people have actually attained god by different paths. And the ones who have attained become god themselves, they may look like simple human beings, but they have now merged in the infinite. Those are the ones who can talk about the ways to attain god, because they themselves have attained. They are the ones who have a clarity and a pure consciousness, and they are the ones who really understand SGGS or any other holy book.
The way we read SGGS is no more like a child trying to read a driving manual, we may read it thousands of times, but it wont help us to drive a car. We need an instructor to explain the manual, and then finally to drive a car. Just to drive a simple car and understand its workings, one needs an able instructor, then how can you understand the mysterious god without an able master.
The manuals will not help without an able instructor. And moreover the importance of an instructor is mentioned a number of times in the manual. But many people believe that the manual itself is the instructor, which is very foolish. The importance of a living guru is mentioned so many times in SGGS, but people say that SGGS is itself the guru, which is never mentioned in SGGS.

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

gyaini jarnail singh ji

Can you please explain me the meaning of the words "sidh ghost" and the word "shabd guru"?

Hundreds and millions of people have been martyrs all over the world, that does not mean that they had experienced god. They definitely were dedicated and enthusiastic, but that does not neccessarily means that they had experienced god. Thousands of men died and were called martyrs during 1984 riots, but that does not mean that they had experienced god.


Thanks, this is what i am trying to say, that sikhism is not the only way to reach god, and their are many other ways by which one can reach god, and people have actually attained god by different paths. And the ones who have attained become god themselves, they may look like simple human beings, but they have now merged in the infinite. Those are the ones who can talk about the ways to attain god, because they themselves have attained. They are the ones who have a clarity and a pure consciousness, and they are the ones who really understand SGGS or any other holy book.
The way we read SGGS is no more like a child trying to read a driving manual, we may read it thousands of times, but it wont help us to drive a car. We need an instructor to explain the manual, and then finally to drive a car. Just to drive a simple car and understand its workings, one needs an able instructor, then how can you understand the mysterious god without an able master.
The manuals will not help without an able instructor. And moreover the importance of an instructor is mentioned a number of times in the manual. But many people believe that the manual itself is the instructor, which is very foolish. The importance of a living guru is mentioned so many times in SGGS, but people say that SGGS is itself the guru, which is never mentioned in SGGS.

sadhu ji

There is the crux of the matter. Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is not a manual, not a training manual, not a driver's manual. It is the Guru. Granth Sahib ji speaks with the voice of all the Gurus who went before, and Granth Sahib contains their light. Granth Sahib ji is the Teacher.

ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਕਰਮਿ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਏ ॥੧॥ gurabaanee eis jag mehi chaanan karam vasai man aaeae ||1|| Gurbani is the Light to illuminate this world; by His Grace, it comes to abide within the mind. Granth Sahib ji is the Light that dispels Darkness.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਭਵਜਲੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਗੁਰ ਤਰਣਾ ॥੧॥ gur parasaadhee shhutteeai bikh bhavajal sabadh gur tharanaa By Guru's Grace you shall be saved. Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall cross over the terrifying world-ocean of poison. ||1|| Granth Sahib ji grants His grace.

prਸਬਦੁ ਭਾਖਤ ਸਸਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ sabadh bhaakhath sas joth apaaraa || Giving voice to the Shabad, the moon of the mind is illuminated with infinity. Granth Sahibji gives voice to the Shabad. Hear it.

In the Hebrew Bible it says, He who hears, let him hear; and he who refuses, let him refuse. In Guruji says, ਕੀ ਨ ਸੁਣੇਹੀ ਗੋਰੀਏ ਆਪਣ ਕੰਨੀ ਸੋਇ ॥ kee n sunaehee goreeeae aapan kannee soe ||Haven't you heard the call from beyond, O beautiful soul-bride?

Same idea.

 

[pk70]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Moreover i have not been able to locate one single line in gurugranth sahib that says that the granth is the supreme gur (quote sadhu ji)


ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀਬਾਣੀਸਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਬਣੀਐ ॥(SGGS304)
Saṯgur kī baṇī saṯ sarūp hai gurbāṇī baṇī▫ai.
The Word of the True Guru's Bani is the embodiment of Truth; through Gurbani, one becomes perfect.
ਮਃ 4
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀਬਾਣੀਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥(SGGS308)
Saṯgur kī baṇī saṯ saṯ kar jāṇhu gursikẖahu har karṯā āp muhhu kadẖā▫e.
O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.
ਮਃ 4

Here is answer for your direct question
ਮਃ੩॥ਇਕਾਬਾਣੀਇਕੁਗੁਰੁਇਕੋਸਬਦੁਵੀਚਾਰਿ॥ਸਚਾਸਉਦਾਹਟੁਸਚੁਰਤਨੀਭਰੇਭੰਡਾਰ॥ਗੁਰਕਿਰਪਾਤੇਪਾਈਅਨਿਜੇਦੇਵੈਦੇਵਣਹਾਰੁ॥

Mėhlā 3.Ikā baṇī ik gur iko sabaḏ vīcẖār.Sacẖā sa▫uḏā hat sacẖ raṯnī bẖare bẖandār.Gur kirpā ṯe pā▫ī▫an je ḏevai ḏevaṇhār.
3rd Guru.There is but one Divine sermon, uttered by the only Guru; there is One Name to reflect upon.True is the merchandise, true the shop and true the garners filled with jewels.If the Beneficent Lord bestows, then alone are they obtained by the Guru's grace.
ਇਕਾ, ਇਕੁ, ਇਕੋ = ਕੇਵਲ, ਸਿਰਫ਼।

ਕੇਵਲਬਾਣੀ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੀਕ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਵਿਚਾਰੋ-ਇਹੀ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਰਹਿਣਵਾਲਾ ਸੌਦਾ ਹੈ, ਇਹੀ ਸੱਚਾ ਹੱਟ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਰਤਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਭੰਡਾਰੇ ਭਰੇ ਪਏ ਹਨ, ਜੇ ਦੇਣਵਾਲਾ (ਹਰੀ) ਦੇਵੇ ਤਾਂ (ਇਹ ਖ਼ਜ਼ਾਨੇ) ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ ਮਿਲਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਮੈ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀਆਧਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਲਾਗਿ ਰਹਾਉ ॥੮॥(SGGS759)

Mai gurbāṇī āḏẖār hai gurbāṇī lāg rahā▫o. ||8||
I have the Support of the Word of the Guru's Bani. Attached to Gurbani, I survive. ||8||
ਮਃ 4

All above quotes are enough for a Sikh to seek wisdom through Guru Granth Sahib ji only, if some one makes another choice, so it be. Truly we have no problem. We as Sikhs, believe only in Guru Granth Sahib as a Guru, seek wisdom from it, who interprets Guru Granth Sahib ji is a Gursikh but not our Guru. Numerous people got enlightenment before Guru Nanak, as Sikhs, we dont see any problem with them either.

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

at pk70 and aad0002

There is a lot of difference between the words "gurbani" and "granth".
Just like there is a lot of difference between living flower and an encyclopedia of flowers{book}. A living flower has a fragrance, an encyclopedia has informations. A living flower is about love, beauty, poetry. An encyclopedia is about science, concepts, and informations about the flowers.
Gurbani is like the fragrance of a braham gyani, of a living brahamgyani, its the fragrance of the living flower, and no matter how hard you try, you can never capture the fragrance of a living flower for years to come. Once the flower is gone the fragrance just vanishes after sometime, yes it stays for a little while, but not for very long.
Gurbani is the fragrance of the words of a brahamgyani, not what he is saying, but the fragrance of what he is saying, the subtle blessings that come behind his words. His words are just a medium so that the blessings can reach us. When you are sitting close to an enlightened being, his words touch the deepest of our hearts, because his words are not merely words, they come with subltle energies with them, and these energies penetrate deep in our subconscious planes. And then the words are really effective and potent. This is the true meaning of gurubani.
But if you are reading the poetry of a brahamgyani, or his book, then you have missed gurubani, then you are merely reading empty words, and empty words are always impotent. They dont really touch you, they dont penetrate you, they just dont hit you.

That is why i can see thousands of people reading gurugranth everyday, and the words dont touch their hearts,the words dont transform their lives, the words dont endrench them with love and gratitude, the granthis just read over them, just run over them, the people sitting around dont bother what the granthi ji is reading. And perhaps grathi ji himself does not know what he is reading.

But if the same gurubani comes out from the mouth of nanak or anybody who is enlightened, i am sure, the people would sit still, to listen, because then the same words will have juice in them, then the same words will have a fragrance in them, then the same words will become a love song, then the same words will transform lives of the ones who are listening. This is what happened when gurunanak was in his body, this is what happened when the ten gurus were in body, the people actually became enlightened through gurbani, BECAUSE it was coming straight from the mouths of the enlightened beings.
But this has rarely happened after the ten gurus, because the whole fragrance was gone with the gurus. Right now just the words are left, and that is why people[including me] have started philosophizing sikhism, like on this site. Philosophy is about the gymnastics of words and logics, when you have too many of them. It is diametrically opposite of poetry, poetry knows no logic, poetry is only about love and sikhism is the panth of love, the whole gurugranth sahib is about love poetry, written in tramendous blissfullness. But here we are philosophizing on sikhism. A philosophy of sikhism is only possible if the love, the juice, the fragrance of the gurubani is lost, because otherwise why would anybody bother about philosophizing it.

Gurubani and the gurugranth are not the same, because they cannot be, just like a flower and the encyclopedia of flowers cannot be the same, just like music that we hear and its written musical notation are not same, the written notation represents the music, but it in itself is not music. Gurubani arises out of a living master and the granth is the collection of his words, granth is the written notation of his words.

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Bani is the Guru. Guru is the Bani. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is the Guru. The Bani is Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Gurbani. Gurbani is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj,

and like that.

I know that this is a subtle concept and it requires a little thought.

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

okay

 

[Archived_Member5]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

quote=Gyani Jarnail Singh;94779]imho.....The title of this Thread is MISLEADING. SGGS is not " human-living" as in the sense implied. The SGGS also doesnt have the "needs" the human gurus have..financial mostly...but also vote banks manipulation for political masters, politics, etc etc.
It should be..Do you really need a "Human Guru" aka the Beas guru..sirsa guru..bhaniara guru... ??:yes:[/php]

[/quote]
 
 
[SIZE=3][B][COLOR=#365f91][FONT=Harrington]Sab[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#365f91][FONT=Harrington] Sikhan[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#365f91][FONT=Harrington] ko[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][FONT=Harrington][COLOR=#333333] – [/COLOR][COLOR=windowtext]The SGGS is a living word, those who profess to be dedicated Sikh followers, seekers of truth read, understand, apply the word of Bani to thinking, actions and your life according to the bounds and limits of your capability. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=3][B][COLOR=#365f91][FONT=Harrington]Hukam[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#365f91][FONT=Harrington] Manyo[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][FONT=Harrington][COLOR=#333333] – [/COLOR][COLOR=windowtext]ordained by the Gurus as the living enduring wisdom and word, living as in the context and message evolve with ones maturity and intellect, stages of understanding, comprehension and experience. Enduring as ineffable in its capacity to direct the mind from confusion, complexity, temptation and sin nature back onto a self controlled, mindful, illumined path.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=3][B][COLOR=#365f91][FONT=Harrington]Guru Manio Granth[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][FONT=Harrington][COLOR=#333333] – [/COLOR][COLOR=windowtext]The SGGS is understood by the devoted adherent is the full and complete book of knowledge and reasoning man requires to understand all variants of data, information and knowledge. Quantum intelligence requires a cognisant underlying premise of rationale, the ability to see the universal in a pearl, progressing towards an expansion of consciousness able to look upon the universe as an entire creation, known and beheld. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
 
[COLOR=windowtext][FONT=Harrington][SIZE=3]The world created by a thought, a seed giving life to what we behold each day reliant upon the quality of our observations. It becomes therefore as Supreme and as complete in its entirety as one’s own intellect allows and permits. Onus is upon the scholar of GurMat and Bani to understand than the Bani to be proved to those as yet unblessed with the dilated mind and supplicated heart to fathom its simple truths swathed in poetic prose. ...[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=windowtext][FONT=Harrington][SIZE=3]The Beas Guru Ji remains one of the most respected and loved Saints in the world today and gone before. Were we to be blessed by another such dignified, noble and perfect being, would our ego’s and eccentricities allow it is the question. A nation is as great as the one governing and leading it. A religion is as strong as its Guru Ji’s teaching, a family is as united and of standing as its elders and seniors tuition and guidance....[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=windowtext][FONT=Harrington][SIZE=3]WAheGuRu Ji ...[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

 

[pk70]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Gurubani and the gurugranth are not the same, because they cannot be, just like a flower and the encyclopedia of flowers cannot be the same, just like music that we hear and its written musical notation are not same, the written notation represents the music, but it in itself is not music. Gurubani arises out of a living master and the granth is the collection of his words, granth is the written notation of his words(quote sadhu ji).

Guru Granth Sahib holds that fragrance you are talking about, when we talk about Gurbani or Guru Granth Sahib, we talk about that fragrance. Words of Guru are called Gurbani, the Guru who had that fragrance, asked his followers to consider bani as their Guru
ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥(SGGS982)
Baṇī gurū gurū hai baṇī vicẖ baṇī amriṯ sāre.
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.
ਮਃ 4
Is there any doubt left ? Gurbani serves as Guru, so Sikhs at least are done with Dehdhari Gurus.
Guru goes further to convince his followers how a “pothi” that contains praise of Lord, becomes some thing special for his followers
ਪੋਥੀ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕਾ ਥਾਨੁ ॥(SGGS 1226)
Pothī parmesar kā thān.
This Holy Book (the Adi Granth) is the abode of the Transcendent Lord.
Gurbani has nothing but fragrance of the Guru and Guru Granth Sahib holds the Gurbani. You cannot compare Guru Granth Sahib with encyclopedia because in there, the words are defined where as in Guru Granth Sahib; words are medium of that fragrance. You cannot compare Guru Grath Sahib with written notation of the music because that is limited to direction to play music where as Guru Granth Sahib holds what Guru uttered which is enough for a true follower to walk on Guru path. Gurbani or Guru Granth Sahib is not notation of any thing but medium to know Guru, to listen to Guru. To progress in spirituality, that is what one needs (Japji), Sikhs through Gurbani know the Guru and listen to the Guru to sculpture the mind. The people who just read and fail to change according Guru Advice are those who lack some thing just as some people miss to be experts due to their limitations.

 

[Amarpal]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Dear Khalsa Ji,

Guru as a person is body, so is Siri Guru Granth Sahib. It is the spoken words of Guru that convey the truth to us; this is Bani. It is knowledge

When we read Siri Guru Granth Sahib, the written text becomes word i.e. Sahbad and the total that we utter becomes Bani. It is knowledge.

This way Siri Guru Granth Sahib is my Guru and the text contained in it is knowledge that leads to truth if the person lives in accordance with the Bani.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

 

[lalihayer]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

But this has rarely happened after the ten gurus, because the whole fragrance was gone with the gurus. Right now just the words are left, and that is why people[including me] have started philosophizing sikhism, like on this site. Philosophy is about the gymnastics of words and logics, when you have too many of them. It is diametrically opposite of poetry, poetry knows no logic, poetry is only about love and sikhism is the panth of love, the whole gurugranth sahib is about love poetry, written in tramendous blissfullness. But here we are philosophizing on sikhism. A philosophy of sikhism is only possible if the love, the juice, the fragrance of the gurubani is lost, because otherwise why would anybody bother about philosophizing it.

What is wrong with philosophizing? Aren't you doing same thing? Isn't it Gymnastics of words and logic (Living flowers, Dead flowers, subtle energies, fragrance etc etc.)?
Gurbani is just poetry for you, for a gursikh it is like raining nectar.
It is the exactly same language ("Gurbani is good poetry") one of my Nirankari colleague uses for Gurbani.
Company of holy is always praised in Gurbani. There are number of sikh saints and brahamgyanis. But Guru status is only for Shabad.
Sadhu ji, you are aware of our Guru, would you enlighten us with the name of your living guru ( or baba or most probably a swami)?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

SGGS is the gateway to the true metamorphosis. Shabad Guru makes us become butterflies from the crawling caterpillars so we can savour its nectar.

Tejwant Singh

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

at vaheguruseekr, lalihayer, amarpal, pk70, aad0002

I am not worried about whatever you believe in, you may believe in gurugranthsahib or anything whtsoever, but the thing that i am really happy about is that you guys have atleast read my posts, because whatever i say in my posts is totally upsidedown of your tradition.
I am greatly thankful to all of you, who have atleast read, and replied to my post.
I might have hurted your sentiments, sorry for that.

What is wrong with philosophizing? Aren't you doing same thing? Isn't it Gymnastics of words and logic (Living flowers, Dead flowers, subtle energies, fragrance etc etc.)?
Gurbani is just poetry for you, for a gursikh it is like raining nectar.

There is nothing wrong in philosophizing gurugranthsahib, but it simply proves that the very essence of the words has been lost, otherwise what is the need of philosophizing, if it was a divine nectar why would anybody bother to philosophize it in the first place?, the divine nectar is to drink, not to philosophize. Yes, mere words can be philosophized, and that is what we are doing.

Gurbani is much more than mere poetry, infact it is the raining nectar as you said, but the condition of the people who read gurugranth sahib does not convince me that it has a divine nectar. The condition of the people does convince me, that something essential in gurbani is lost, something of tramendous value is missing, because

If there was any raining nectar, the people would have been ecstatic, rejoicing, drunk, and fullfilled after reading it. Which i have not seen till date.

If there was any raining nectar, the people would have never ever bothered to go to babas, sadhus, sants etc. As i can see hundreds of babas in punjab, lakhs of sikh people following them.

If there was any divine nectar there would not have been any politics in the name of sikhism. As i can see the politics and sikhism have been totally intermingled in punjab.

If there was any divine nectar, the sikh youth would not have been drifted away from their faith, just by some stupid bollywood movies and the western culture. As i can see almost 90 percent of sikh youth with haircuts and most of them dont even know A,B,C of gurbani.

Either this raining nectar is not tasty as it is failing to attract people to read gurbani, or it does not even exist.

Sadhu ji, you are aware of our Guru, would you enlighten us with the name of your living guru ( or baba or most probably a swami:wink?

I am actually not aware of your guru, neither do i myself have any guru.

 

[Archived_Member5]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

There is a main reasoning for the ongoing disagreement between philosophers and truth seekers. The SGGS is an ocean of pearls of wisdom, teaching of the Gurus and principles for living. The mind is temperamental, changes from day to day and circumstance to emotional resilience to life’s travails. There are differing stages and levels of learning, of intelligence, of understanding. There are many different mindsets, modes of thinking be they positive or negative varying from time to time.

All these variants amalgamated together exchanging views in heated debates. There is only One Absolute Truth. It is within and about us. On some days it appears as clear and concise as day. On others we seem submerged into an abyss of complexity, confusion and emotional volatility. The purpose of the Sangat is to steer the collective minds towards focus upon the One word. Imagine then the difficulty in raising these minds filled with contrary goals, rational thinking, daily issues and immediate situational circumstances demanding our attentions.

To what truth should one focus all the minds upon. It must be One all are able to dwell upon, ponder and understand. The scriptures all contain truths perfectly suitable one day, and inappropriate on another to the individual. Sometimes it is understanding this, overcoming one’s own ego, and remaining mindful of the difficulties of others as all try to agree on one truth, and sometimes find great delight in disagreement.

It matters not whether your daily truth is greater befitting than mine, what is important is the understanding of the mindset variable of thinking of each speaker in the company or gathering. One is deemed a great thinker who simultaneously considers the vantage points of others whilst outlining one’s own comprehension of what is truth ...

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu ji

When the conversation arrives at a point where neither side has convinced the other, the the next step is one of two:

1. You move on realizing that it is over;

2. You ask people questions about aspects of their point of view to find out why they believe as they do.

So if you start a post saying "at at at at...." naturally it doesn't mean anything to us.Most Sikhs are not going to give up the idea that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is Guru because Guruji lies at the heart of Sikhism, and in the heart of Sikhs, and from our Guru everything else we believe unfolds.

Sikh soldiers carry the Guru Granth into war. How many gurus do you know who can you ask to do that or who want to go there with you?

Shri Guru Granth Sahib

 

[Archived_Member5]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The SGGS is the living word and Guru, none can dispute this, if there is such a person may they speak. Indeed some require a Guru Ji, a teacher to guide them through the deep scriptural wisdom of the word. What you may be referring to is what is known as a Godhead, a powerful religious leader. The Rhadoswami’s have such a leader, whose highly respected personage has caused a mass 70% conversion to his faith by Sikhs and other faiths. Such principled Spiritual Godheads are a source of security to their followers but formidable political contenders for the anti-religious modern societies wishing to implement democracy or media power. That is the main reasoning for any raised objection by the media, and in-house rivalries for such a prestigious position. It would be a great asset for Sikhs if a Guru Ji of Amritsar were to act as Godhead for the world Sikh community.

 

[Archived_Member5]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Personal bias in any matter should always be conscientiously declared, in any debate or discussion for example in the cutting of hair, one may suffer a malady whereby ones tresses are shorn but would not advocate the cutting of hair as it not only directly opposes scriptural doctrine but short hair is generally unbecoming compared to long hair. One may have married for love out of one’s own caste, creed or race, and would declare ones bias or self interest in any topic discussing mixed race or caste marriages. Bias is another form of ego, in that because one has chosen, or given or cast into a particular way of life, decision, or discipline it does not necessarily follow that you have the prerogative to wrong what are sound and righteous tenets purely for a sense self sanctimonious righteousness. Until such an individual sheds their ego or self interest they cannot be considered with any seriousness as philosophers or purveyors of truth. This is positive utilitarianism when reversed murders Gods and hangs them from crosses in the cause of sacrifice to an unknown faceless entity. Christianity was based upon such a lie. …

The carrying of Holy books whether the SGGS or the Bible, or Quran is usual practice for many such misfortunates’ sent to needless wars incited by demgogues. It is hardly an issue in the actual debate of whether a Guru Ji should be appointed to bring a semblne3ce of stability and focus for the Sikhs as it seems to have done for Sikh Rhadoswami’s ….

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

SGGS is the gateway to the true metamorphosis. Shabad Guru makes us become butterflies from the crawling caterpillars so we can savour its nectar.

Tejwant Singh

http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:B0Reey4G8RiHIM::twistedphysics.typepad.com/{censored}tail_party_physics/images/butterfly.jpg

Vaheguruseekr ji

Missed what you said above earlier. What a beautiful image. It is true.

ਹਉ ਹਉ ਭੀਤਿ ਭਇਓ ਹੈ ਬੀਚੋ ਸੁਨਤ ਦੇਸਿ ਨਿਕਟਾਇਓ ॥
ho ho bheeth bhaeiou hai beecho sunath dhaes nikattaaeiou ||
The wall of egotism and pride separates us, but I can hear Him nearby.

ਭਾਂਭੀਰੀ ਕੇ ਪਾਤ ਪਰਦੋ ਬਿਨੁ ਪੇਖੇ ਦੂਰਾਇਓ ॥੩॥
bhaanbheeree kae paath paradho bin paekhae dhooraaeiou ||3||
There is a veil between us, like the wings of a butterfly; without being able to see Him, He seems so far away. ||3||

ਭਇਓ ਕਿਰਪਾਲੁ ਸਰਬ ਕੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਸਗਰੋ ਦੂਖੁ ਮਿਟਾਇਓ ॥
bhaeiou kirapaal sarab ko thaakur sagaro dhookh mittaaeiou ||
The Lord and Master of all has become merciful; He has dispelled all my sufferings.

v ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਉਮੈ ਭੀਤਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਖੋਈ ਤਉ ਦਇਆਰੁ ਬੀਠਲੋ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੪॥
kahu naanak houmai bheeth gur khoee tho dhaeiaar beethalo paaeiou ||4||
Says Nanak, when the Guru tore down the wall of egotism, then, I found my Merciful Lord and Master. ||4||

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

aad0002 you dont like the word "at" so i wont use that....

When the conversation arrives at a point where neither side has convinced the other

aad0002 you have convinced me. I am absolutely convinced by your trust in gurugranth sahib. I am absolutely concinced about your love for gurugranthsahib. I am absolutely convinced about your devotion.

So dont say that neither of the sides is convinced, because i am not only convinced, but i am impressed by your love and trust.

I loved the conversation with you guys.

 

[dalbirk]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

What is a GURU:

Guru is a word of Sanskrit language. It has been coined from the basic word 'Gri’ which means to swallow; to digest or to make one understand. Therefore, Guru is he who swallows the darkness of ignorance with the light of knowledge and enables a disciple to realise and reach the inner and absolute truth. Thus Guru is one who is well enlightened, who imparts and guides others towards enlightement, and seeker of spiritual knowledge, a high intellectual or a leading scholar. Guru is that personality who is capable of enlightening the mind of a person who is living in the darkness of ignorance .
It must be remembered that ignorance is dispelled with knowledge. The body that transmits knowledge is only a medium. The water in a pitcher is the real thing that can quench some one's thirst and not the pitcher that contains it . Pitcher only holds the water but can't quench anyone's thirst. So the body is a pitcher and the knowledge held in the body is like that water .
But a man has often held a doubt that the body is Guru He has, therefore, been worshipping the body and is still worshipping it. So much so that as long as he (deemed Guru) was alive, he was worshipped; after his death his idol or a picture took the place of his body
Thus we find idols installed at so many places where the devotees worship them in many ways. The knowledge that is like a Guru and that which dispels darkness of ignorance
seems to have disappeared and hidden somewhere .
Guru Nanak the true master had identified this weakness of a man. Instead of worship of a body, he preached the worship of SHABAD the vehicle of knowledge. When Guru Nanak came into this world, Yogis reigned supreme and had declared themselves the Guru of the world. The dialogue that Guru Nanak had with the Yogis rcvolved arounu 'Guru' as its subject. The entire debate is recorded in Sri Guru Granth Sahib under the caption 'Sidh Ghosht(i)' in Rag Ramkali. The question put by the Sidhs to Guru Nanak and his reply there to is recorded in 'SidhGhosht(i)' as under :_
Kavan mul(u) kavan mat(i) vela. Tera kavan(u) guru jis ka tu chela

The answer
Pavan arambh(u) sal(i)gur mat(i) vela
Sabad(u) guru surt(i) dhun(i) chela (Page 942)
Guru Nanak preached the concept of 'Shabad Guru' in the world, and to put this concept on firm footings, he spent 239 years in this world in ten different revered bodies. The body was considered just a medium of transmission of knowledge.He accepted knowledge regardless of the physical body it has appeared in. The proof of this is the fact that Sri Guru Granth Sahib contains worlds of wisdom not only of The Gurus but also of Bhagatas of Hindu and Islam religion beside a few other devoted Sikhs.

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

sadhu ji

You are the person who created the opportunity for a good conversation. No one deserves respect for this more than you. You started a thread that kept a number of us invested. So I honor you for that.

The thread you began: What is Death? It should be a very interesting discussion.

Sat Nam
Antonia