Christianity One And Only One God

[Bittu]

Dear Sikh80 ji,
Yes, "This world is not as simple as it appears".

JESUS CHRIST said,
"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves". {Matthew 10:16}

"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled; and whosoever shall humble himself shall be exalted". {Matthew 23:12}

 

[Astroboy]

Railway engines run at a very fast speed but they have no consciousness; they are directed by some conscious man. There's no consciousness in trains. Airplanes have no consciousness; they are guided by some conscious man. They can dash against anything; they go where directed.

 

[Astroboy]

Is mind your servant or are you the servant of mind? Would you like somebody who lives in your house to drag you here, there, everywhere by the nose, the neck, the ears? If not ... You are the Master of this body. It is on account of you this body is working. Would you like for mind to come drag you here, there? It is not honorable, mind you. Silence is golden.
The very silence sprouts forth into Light and Music of the Spheres. So, all is Nirvana now, is it not? All is Nirvana now.

 

[Astroboy]

Real humility comes up of itself when you see a Grander Work working. By becoming a conscious co-worker of the Divine Plan, you become conscious of a very Grand Power working, and that you are a mere puppet in His hands. The means to that end is coming in contact with the Light and Sound Principle. Humility is the ornament of a real Saint. That requires no acting or posing. People act and pose. They are humble, they are this and that, but at heart of hearts they feel, "Oh, I know so much." You see? Real humility will only arise when we see some higher Power working, and we know we are a mere puppet in His hands. I issued one circular on humility, two or three pages I think; did you read it? Some people do say they are humble but at heart of hearts they feel, "There is nobody like me."

The above 3 posts were spoken by Sant Kirpal Singh

 

[Sikh80]

Dear Bittu ji,

Please note the above post 64. I do not, however, know as to who is Kirpal Singh. But moderators must have taken care of that everything posted is as per Sikhism. I do not know if it is from any 'neutral source'.

Please Judge yourself.
What I like most besides twinkle ,twinkle is that sometimes , Silence speaks a lot.

 

[Sikh80]

Dear namjap ji,

Here it goes.! There are some allusion to the One, the Supremus.
ਤੀਰਥੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਇਆ ਦਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ ॥
Ŧirath ṯap ḏa▫i▫ā ḏaṯ ḏān.
Pilgrimages, austere discipline, compassion and charity -
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਿਲ ਕਾ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
Je ko pāvai ṯil kā mān.
these, by themselves, bring only an iota of merit.
ਸੁਣਿਆ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਭਾਉ ॥
Suṇi▫ā mani▫ā man kīṯā bẖā▫o.
Listening and believing with love and humility in your mind,
ਅੰਤਰਗਤਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਮਲਿ ਨਾਉ ॥
Anṯargaṯ ṯirath mal nā▫o.
cleanse yourself with the Name, at the sacred shrine deep within.
ਸਭਿ ਗੁਣ ਤੇਰੇ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
Sabẖ guṇ ṯere mai nāhī ko▫e.
All virtues are Yours, Lord, I have none at all.
ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
viṇ guṇ kīṯe bẖagaṯ na ho▫e.
Without virtue, there is no devotional worship.
ਸੁਅਸਤਿ ਆਥਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਬਰਮਾਉ ॥
Su▫asaṯ āth baṇī barmā▫o.
I bow to the Lord of the World, to His Word, to Brahma the Creator.
ਸਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਣੁ ਸਦਾ ਮਨਿ ਚਾਉ ॥
Saṯ suhāṇ saḏā man cẖā▫o.
He is Beautiful, True and Eternally Joyful.
ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਵੇਲਾ ਵਖਤੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਕਵਣ ਥਿਤਿ ਕਵਣੁ ਵਾਰੁ ॥
Kavaṇ so velā vakẖaṯ kavaṇ kavaṇ thiṯ kavaṇ vār.
What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date?
ਕਵਣਿ ਸਿ ਰੁਤੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਹੋਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥
Kavaṇ sė ruṯī māhu kavaṇ jiṯ ho▫ā ākār.
What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created?
ਵੇਲ ਨ ਪਾਈਆ ਪੰਡਤੀ ਜਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਲੇਖੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
vel na pā▫ī▫ā pandṯī jė hovai lekẖ purāṇ.
The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas.
ਵਖਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
vakẖaṯ na pā▫i▫o kāḏī▫ā jė likẖan lekẖ kurāṇ.
That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran.
ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰੁ ਨਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਮਾਹੁ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ॥
Thiṯ vār nā jogī jāṇai ruṯ māhu nā ko▫ī.
The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season.
ਜਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਿਰਠੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ॥
Jā karṯā sirṯẖī ka▫o sāje āpe jāṇai so▫ī.
The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.
ਕਿਵ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਾ ਕਿਵ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਰਨੀ ਕਿਵ ਜਾਣਾ ॥
Kiv kar ākẖā kiv sālāhī ki▫o varnī kiv jāṇā.
How can we speak of Him? How can we praise Him? How can we describe Him? How can we know Him?
ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥
Nānak ākẖaṇ sabẖ ko ākẖai ik ḏū ik si▫āṇā.
O Nanak, everyone speaks of Him, each one wiser than the rest.
ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਵਡੀ ਨਾਈ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਹੋਵੈ ॥
vadā sāhib vadī nā▫ī kīṯā jā kā hovai.
Great is the Master, Great is His Name. Whatever happens is according to His Will.
ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਪੌ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੨੧॥
Nānak je ko āpou jāṇai agai ga▫i▫ā na sohai. ||21||
O Nanak, one who claims to know everything shall not be decorated in the world hereafter. ||21||

 

[Sikh80]

Dear Sikh80 ji,
Yes, "This world is not as simple as it appears".

JESUS CHRIST said,
"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves". {Matthew 10:16}

"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled; and whosoever shall humble himself shall be exalted". {Matthew 23:12}

As I am the one who is an interested party to the discussion , I morally feel that I am not entitled to nominate this post as the best post else I would have done so.

 

[Bittu]

Dear namjap ji,
"that you are a mere puppet in His hands".
Namjap ji,I am not agree with this.I dont belive, we are Puppet in Gods hand.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" (John 1:12)
I belive no child is puppet in his Fathers hand.

 

[Bittu]

Dear namjap ji,
Plz raed my post "Fathers Love Letter" you will understand.

 

[Bittu]

Dear Sikh80 ji,
Yes,
"We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but love edifieth.If any man thinketh that he knoweth anything, he knoweth not yet as he ought to know" (1 Corinthians 8:2)

 

[BhagatSingh]

BhagatSingh ji

So far no one has taken you up on your question. Surely, you knew when you posted this question that you were asking a very sophisticated question. Forgive me for reacting to your obvious intelligence and wit.

Your question: Why one and only one God? To approach the question one has to stipulate for the sake of argument that there is at least one God, or Omnipotent Creator. Then one has to sort out whether you are asking for scientific proof or logical argument.

So first I am going to assume that you are willing to stipulate at least one God (or you would not have asked the question the way you did.)

I am not sure if you are asking for scientific proof of God, but if you are, you would most likely be adopting an agnostic position, rather than that of a non-believer. For example, the philosopher Herbert Spencer described the agnostic position.

... admitting the rational necessity of postulating the Absolute or Unconditioned behind the relative and conditioned objects of our knowledge declares that Absolute to be altogether unknowable, to be in fact the Unknowable, about which without being guilty of contradiction we can predicate nothing at all, except perhaps that It exists... CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Existence of God

In other words for agnostics, it is perfectly logical to accept the idea of an Absolute and Self-created Creator (much like Kartar Purakh Akaal murat(t)h Ajoonee SaibhaN, as we Sikhs believe), based on ordinary reasoning. However that Absolute being can never be known completely because of the limitations of our own intelligence. We can only "predicate" that the Absolute being exists.

Next, why only one God, and not two or three or four or more? There are several arguments resorted to by theologians and philosophers of religion.

1. Simplicity of God - God has essential characteristics (for example, God is all-powerful, creative, supportive, destructive, compassionate). If there were several deities, each with one one or more of the qualities that I listed previously, they would have some of the characteristics of the Absolute. But if that were true, then no single deity would be Absolute. From the perspective of Sikhism, two or more deities would be illogical as the Absolute in nirgun form would have no reason to manifest in a vareity of attributes or qualities.

2. God is Perfect - Imagine two or more deities, and all of them were perfect. Then, each would be exactly like the other, they would all be identical, and indisguishable from One who is perfect. Why then would more than One be necessary? If there were several gods, there would be several perfect beings but “if none of these perfect beings lacks some perfection,” and if none of them has “any admixture of imperfection … ., nothing will be given in which to distinguish the perfect beings from one another” (Aquinas: 158).

3. God's authority is complete and He is the cause of everything. If there were two or more creators acting in the same sphere or in different spheres at the same time, two results are possible and neither of them is logically consistent with the idea of absolute, self-existent and unconditional authority. One: two or more creators could at times work at cross-purposes or contradict one another, demonstrating that none of them were absolute in their authority. Two: If two or more creators work in perfect harmony, then why would more than One be necessary? There can be only One whose authority is complete and is the cause of everything.

4. God is Omnipotent -- all powerful. If there are two deities, and both are all-powerful, and one decided on a course of action, the second deity would be required to help the first. This means that one would be dependent on the other and therefore is not all-powerful. In addition, if the second deity refused to help the first, there would be a conflict. How could conflict be possible if both are omnipotent? Conflict is impossible. There can be only One who is all-powerful.

5. God is Perfect and therefore deserves our complete devotion. If there are two or more perfect gods then both would deserve our complete devotion. Is it logically possible to give our "complete" devotion to more than one god?

Best I can do. I am not a religious scholar. Maybe there is one at SPN who can help out. But I think Guru Nanak already summed this up.

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ikoankaar sathnaam karathaa purakh nirabho niravair akaal moorath ajoonee saibhan gurprasaadh||
One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace~​

Aad ji, you have answered my question well and I thank you for that! That was exactly what I was looking for. There are many more answers to the question but your reasoning shows you have used your mind. BTW I knew the answer(not all you have presented though), I just want Sikhs to start thinking in terms of "why" and "how". Why is this so? Why does this happen? Likewise, why only one God? This is how a child thinks. Mommy, why is the sky blue? How does the sun shine? This is the first step to "critical thinking". Which we all have conveniently forgotten. I think even Guru Nanak has enforced critical thinking. If you read about his travels, he has debated mostly using critical thinking.

Saying "there is one God and so and so wrote in a book", DOES NOT answer WHY they wrote whatever they wrote.
Also saying, "go look in SGGS", doesn't answer the question. It simply avoids the question, which you don't need to learn from me. (you know who you are)

...and no gurbani does not answer "why", which is why you cannot read it mindlessly.

 

[Astroboy]

The true seeker is one who finds the answers from within.

 

[spnadmin]

BhagatSingh ji

I have to confess it was good for me to go through this thought process -- first do some research (and believe me the writing and argument of philosophers was not easy for me)-- think about what I read -- and then translate it into practical language, which departed from their logical theorems. Took a while. But at the end I had renewed appreciation for Guru Nanak because through Japji Sahib he explores these same, exact same, ideas -- but then restates them as hymns. Guru Nanak had to be one of the most brilliant people of his day -- or of any religious thinker in history. And it should make us realize that Sikhism is based on nothing less than a coherent and logically related understandings about God and His Divinity.

 

[BhagatSingh]

The true seeker is one who finds the answers from within.

This is not always the case, Namjap ji.

 

[Astroboy]

This is not always the case, Namjap ji.

We are not physical beings. We are spiritual beings wearing a physical body. The reality of ourselves is within. The outer garment is a data collector via the 5 physical senses. Always look for the reality within. A seeker is led within himself all else suffer anguish.

The mind is the temple which seats the soul (our true self).

Page 795, Line 9
ਮਨੁ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਤਨੁ ਵੇਸ ਕਲੰਦਰੁ ਘਟ ਹੀ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਵਾ ॥
मनु मंदरु तनु वेस कलंदरु घट ही तीरथि नावा ॥
Man manḏar ṯan ves kalanḏar gẖat hī ṯirath nāvā.
My mind is the temple, and my body is the simple cloth of the humble seeker; deep within my heart, I bathe at the sacred shrine.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

 

[BhagatSingh]

The true seeker is one who finds the answers from within.

Ok so we can say it really depends on the question. If you're question is "where do I find God", then the answer could be "within" or "find the answer from within". However, if your question is "where do I find Jupiter", then the answer is not "from within", etc. He must go search for it outside. In both cases they are true seekers.

 

[Astroboy]

It depends on what you are looking for. Truth is simple and beautiful but there seems to be a confusion in our minds because mind has 4 different functions. This results in the effects of duality but actually duality is an illusion. Because mind is created by a higher power. Brahmand is an egg-shaped creation of Sat Purukh and only Satguru Ji knows the Sat Purukh.

There are various 'heavens' or planes of creation which correspond to the microcosm. The human make up being the microcosm. Call it illusion or lower reality, it's your choice. In this Brahmanda (meaning the egg of Brahma) the highest region corresponds with the sub-conscious mind. The second region - the conscious mind.
The third region - emotions or astral body (Sookham moorat). And finally the physical plane of existence corresponding with the physical body.

So if you are looking at Jupiter, you are looking into a lower reality or simply illusion. The whole of Brahmanda is impermanent and subject to dissolution.

Reality being the permanent abode of Soul.
Flash cards Symbolism of Ace, King, Queen and Jack
Ace - Soul
King - Mind
Queen - Emotions
Jack - Physical Body (Jack of all trades)

 

[Archived_Member4]

Dear Bittu ji/ Singh ji,

It is always good to be polite and humble and innocent. But if you feel cornered; you should learn to take care of interests. Bani tells us to be humble and be dust of the feet of saintly persons only.
There is no need of defensive all the times.

You might have noticed that this world is not as simple as it appears.

Please learn to fight it for yourself and protect your interests. Guru sahibs have spent all their lives fighting against injustice. If you find some nuisance just ignore it or fight it out.

Guru Rakha.

Sikh80 ji

I completely understand where you are coming from. Why I got defensive here was because BhagatSingh ji was avoiding and being stubborn toward the facts, that his question has been answered without even answering it. All one has to do is read the first lines of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. He ignores the facts even after they are presented, a prime example of this in the tattoo thread and continues to attack the one who provides these facts.

 

[max314]

Heaven and Hell are not places.

They are states of mind.

 

[Sinister]

Heaven and Hell are not places.

They are states of mind.

the epistemological gridlock...

For the skeptic practicing a stringent form of internalism, every definition and expression of knowledge is dependant on the 'state of mind' (be it a collective or an individual).

where do we draw the lines?