Christianity One And Only One God

[Bittu]

:shy: For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.
(John 3:16)
:yes: Jesus said, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
(John 14:6)
:happy:"For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit"
(1 Peter 3:18).

• Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins, so we might be forgiven.

"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures . . . He was buried . . . He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . He appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time . . ."
(1 Corinthians 15:3-6).

Jesus Christ rose from the dead to prove He could give us eternal life.
:happy:
Link removed because proselytizing is not permitted on SPN. (aad0002)

 

[spnadmin]

Bittu ji

I have moved the thread to Interfaith Dialogs -- where discussions of religions other than Sikhism need to go.

Please develop your idea so that forum members can know why you have quoted lines from judaeo-christian scriptures.

 

[Astroboy]

Bittu Ji,

We are inviting you to discuss the above quotes as to how man today has deviated from the divine principles which have stood the test of time. I would like to hear your own opinion of these quotes. Kindly expand.

 

[Bittu]

Dear NamJap ji,

1) For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.
(John 3:16)
sin makes human separate from God. Every human is sinner. “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” - Romans 3:23.
And no sinner can bring human to God or reach to God .That is why God send his only Son to take all the sins of mankind upon himself and die and reconciled human to God so, God came to human.
Reconciliation means "to change from enmity to friendship/ to reestablish relation." It is a change on the part of one party, induced by an action on the part of another. It is the process by which God and man are brought together again. The Bible teaches that God and man are alienated from one another because of God's holiness and man's sinfulness. Man sinned but God’s love remained.That is why Jesus Christ came into this world “that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.”


2) Jesus said, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
(John 14:6)
14:6 I am the way, and the truth, and the life. This is said in reply to Thomas. Without him there would be no Way revealed; no divine and saving truth, no immortal life.
No man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Not only can no one enter the Father's house without him, but no man can come to the Father on earth so as to enjoy his favor. There is no other name given under heaven among men whereby we must be saved (Ac 4:12). {And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.(Matt 28:18)}
3) "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit"
(1 Peter 3:18).
"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures . . . He was buried . . . He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . He appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time . . ."
(1 Corinthians 15:3-6).
“The wages of sin is death” - Romans 6:23. Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins, so we might be forgiven. Jesus Christ rose from the dead to prove He could give us eternal life.
Sin brought separation between man and God; the death of Christ as the sacrifice for man’s sin brought reconciliation between man and God. Man sinned but God’s love remained. (Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.)
His righteousness and mercy provided a means for man to be reconciled to Him. Jesus Christ gave Himself as the perfect sacrifice so that all who would receive Him could be reconciled to God.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
(2 Corinthians 5:17-20)
(Romans 5:9 - Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.)
Paul is speaking of the results of justification; one result is the shedding abroad of the love of God in the heart. Then he dwells upon the death of Christ as being the manifestation of that love. If God loved us so much in our sinful and unlovable state that He gave His Son to die for our salvation, when we were under His condemnation, how much more shall His love bestow upon us the blessings secured by that death.
(Romans 1:18 - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
The gospel is a revelation not only of love, but specifically "a righteousness of God." He shows that the essence of the gospel is found in the propitiatory death of the Lord Jesus Christ, through whom alone can men find justification, salvation, and deliverance from the wrath of God. Justification and reconciliation are actions of God. Justification delivers from "the wrath of God"; reconciliation takes effect upon enemies. Reconciliation is the completed act of God, which took place before any human actions were performed.
----

 

[Astroboy]

Bittu Ji,

I find this topic interesting and would appreciate if you could throw some light on the third heaven and seventh heaven.

 

[Bittu]

Dear NamJap ji,
I didnt mention about it in my post!How do you know about three and seven heavens?
Well ! I dont know much about Heaven but I know that there are more than one heaven.St.Paul says,"I know someone in Christ who, fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows), was caught up to the third heaven". (2 Corinthians 12:2.) It is belived that there are three Heavens but Are there more than three, No one knows for sure.Bibile does not say there are Seven or only three heavens.But Bible tells us that there are more heavens than one.
I dont know much about it now,although I will try to answer after studying it.

" We need not to care about numbers of Heaven!we need to receive Jesus Christ because SALVATION is in him. "There is no other name given under heaven among men whereby we must be saved" (Act 4:12). If we will have Christ Jesus we will be saved and we will be with him forever and ever in Heaven. " :happy:

 

[Astroboy]

Actually, Bittu Ji, I had started a thread called: Do Christians misunderstand the Bible
http://www.sikhism.us/interfaith-dialogues/20809-is-the-bible-misunderstood-by-christians.html
and members went discussing about third and seventh heaven. But no one knows what to expect to find in the third heaven.

 

[spnadmin]

I can look into this. Once before I did and what I found was that the Italian poet Dante had drawn pictures more like a map of the seven heavens. But it was next to impossible to find any religious sources on this. WoW!

 

[BhagatSingh]

What is heaven? What is the purpose of heaven?

 

[spnadmin]

Bhagat ji

In some religions the afterlife is lived in another locale or region. Heaven is one; Hell the other. Limbo yet seen as another condition of life hereafter. The idea that the spirit travels to another "place" after death is thousands of years old. The ancient Egyptians conceived of the soul, after death, taking a trip by chariot into the sky and following the solar orbit. Ancient Greeks described the soul reaching the afterlife in Hades traveling by boat on the River Styx.

Heaven, simply understood, is a "place" for souls to spend life after death in eternal bliss in the presence of God. Its purpose, to reward living a virtuous life. However, this is an older idea. Contemporary mainstream Christianity does not define Heaven as a "place" but as a "state" of being present with the Divine. Heaven's purpose is/was as a reward for living a life in which one sought forgiveness for one's sins.

Hades was an early form of Hell, but not a place of torture so much as an underworld where souls wandered in formlessness. The idea of Hell comes later and its purpose varies with religions. Contemporary Roman Catholicism and mainstream Protestant religions reject the idea that Hell is a "place" of eternal suffering, and sees Hell as being in a state of eternal ignorance and separation from God. However, earlier forms of Roman Catholicism understood Hell to be an actual place. In general Hell is understood to be a place of eternal punishment for souls who did not atone or seek forgiveness for sins committed in life.

These are not Sikh views. Once again -- various sects of Christianity and Judaism have varying understandings of Heaven and Hell.

 

[Astroboy]

ਜੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਅਰਾਧੀ ਦੁਖਿ ਭੀ ਤੁਝੈ ਧਿਆਈ ॥੨॥
जे सुखु देहि त तुझहि अराधी दुखि भी तुझै धिआई ॥२॥
Je sukẖ ḏėh ṯa ṯujẖėh arāḏẖī ḏukẖ bẖī ṯujẖai ḏẖi▫ā▫ī. ||2||
If You will bless me with happiness, then I will worship and adore You. Even in pain, I will meditate on You. ||2||

ਜੇ ਭੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਇਤ ਹੀ ਰਾਜਾ ਦੁਖ ਵਿਚਿ ਸੂਖ ਮਨਾਈ ॥੩॥
जे भुख देहि त इत ही राजा दुख विचि सूख मनाई ॥३॥
Je bẖukẖ ḏėh ṯa iṯ hī rājā ḏukẖ vicẖ sūkẖ manā▫ī. ||3||
Even if You give me hunger, I will still feel satisfied; I am joyful, even in the midst of sorrow. ||3||

 

[spnadmin]

NamJap ji

Just to comment on how complicated the question of Heaven and Hell can be among Christian sects. Here is a comparison of the Roman Church with the Eastern Orthodox Church on the subject of whether one who is "saved" from sin can expect the security of spending life after death in Heaven.

Both religions (Eastern Orthodox is actually a group of religions) believe that humans are "saved" from the taint of "original sin" because of sacrifice of the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth. Sins committed later in life require individuals to atone, and if they make a sincere effort to seek God's forgiveness they may expect to go to Heaven after they die.

This idea of being eternally secure after death is not understood in the same way. In the Eastern Churches a person is "saved" and cannot somehow revert backward to being "unsaved." But whether that person will end up in heaven or in hell is a question that is never completely resolved in his/her lifetime. "Heaven is the place of God's throne, beyond time and space. It is the abode of God's angels, as well as of the saints who have passed from this life... Hell, unpopular as it is to modern people, is real."
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/catechism_ext.htm

In the Roman Church, Heaven is the eternal, immediate and direct perception of God "the beatific vision." Hell is the denial of this vision, darkness and separation from God. After the Second Vatican Council, the Roman Church adopted the idea of universal salvation. No right-minded person, will be lost to spend eternity in Hell (separation from God after death). The modern Church adopted as doctrine the writing of the philosopher Origen.

"Origen held a firm conviction that not a single rational being will be lost to the darkness of ignorance and sin. Even the most recalcitrant sinner, he argued, will eventually attain salvation. The fire of punishment is not an instrument of eternal torment, but of divine instruction and correction. Since the soul is essentially rational, it will eventually be convinced of the truth of the divine pedagogy. When this conviction arises, salvation and deification will follow. The word used to describe this universal salvation was Apokatastasis, ‘restoration of all things.’[/FONT] "
http://www.romancatholicism.org/universal-salvation.htm

So here are two very similar paths of faith with very different ideas about Heaven and Hell. In the eastern churches, you don't know what will happen. In the Roman Church, chances are excellent that you will be restored to God. The differences become even more remarkable when Protestant faiths are also brought into the discussion. And Protestant faiths do not agree amongst themselves!

 

[Astroboy]

Aad Ji, too much of fear factor is involved. Akin to watching a horror movie and you begin to believe and fear and even carry this fear in your subconscious mind. Whatever we feed our mind, that thing will come to pass on earth plane.

The book of Proverbs clearly explains, Whosoever trusteth in the Lord, Happy is he.
Christians need to radiate love, peace, goodwill, joy and ask for Sarbat Da Bhala because this is the superstructure of happiness for all their days of their lives.
Thank Waheguru Ji that I am a Sikh.

 

[Astroboy]

The blue light, which Michael reported, issues from the Mental Plane, St. Paul's third heaven. The Spiritual Travelers of ECK know of different levels in heaven. However, St. Paul's statement about that fact is the lone biblical reference to it. This mention, of course, presupposed heavens one and two. Who was to say there weren't four, five, or more?

Which heaven is Jesus in ? If there is a coming back of Jesus, then he could not be in the
5th (Sach Khand) plane which is permanent and beyond the cycles of transmigration.

 

[spnadmin]

Aad Ji, too much of fear factor is involved. Akin to watching a horror movie and you begin to believe and fear and even carry this fear in your subconscious mind. Whatever we feed our mind, that thing will come to pass on earth plane.

The book of Proverbs clearly explains, Whosoever trusteth in the Lord, Happy is he.
Christians need to radiate love, peace, goodwill, joy and ask for Sarbat Da Bhala because this is the superstructure of happiness for all their days of their lives.
Thank Waheguru Ji that I am a Sikh.

NamJap ji -- I agree with you.

 

[spnadmin]

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[BhagatSingh]

One and only one god eh? But why one and only one God?? I wonder....

 

[Bittu]

BECAUSE GOD IS ONE AND NOT MANY.GOD IS ONLY ONE AND THERE IS NO god BESIDE HIM.

 

[Sikh80]

Dear Bittu ji,

You are right. God should be one entity. No religion is better than another. These are the paths that lead to same destination, if any.

I really feel sorry as to how this thread has been blocked time and again by the moderators. It is humbly suggested that Moderators should not give warnings time and again but should act and let us discuss the things peacefully.

Dear/Respected Bittu ji, Kindly keep on posting the way you think that things can be shared.
It is always pleasant to listen to the Sangat than to the moderators/ inter-moderators dialogues that tend to tilt the discussion to undesired direction.

 

[Sikh80]

The blue light, which Michael reported, issues from the Mental Plane, St. Paul's third heaven. The Spiritual Travelers of ECK know of different levels in heaven. However, St. Paul's statement about that fact is the lone biblical reference to it. This mention, of course, presupposed heavens one and two. Who was to say there weren't four, five, or more?

Which heaven is Jesus in ? If there is a coming back of Jesus, then he could not be in the
5th (Sach Khand) plane which is permanent and beyond the cycles of transmigration.

Dear namjap ji,

I am very much ignorant about the things stated by you above. But these seem worthy of further elaboration. Kindly elucidate further if it is o.k. with you.

Regards!