Lessons From God - What Happens When We Die? - Where Could We Go? - What Is Attachment & Detachment?

[japjisahib04]

.

The issue with the logic of your post and perhaps Bhagat Singh ji's too is that you are arbitrarily redifining the definition of "Life" and "Death". Death is cessation of Life that 99.9999+% of the world understands. Death state cannot revert back to Life state to where it was before death occurred. If it did it simply will mean that the declaration of death was false.

Using the words like death and Living is erroneous. If you mean getting to forget your conscious or detaching from it while awake that is a different item. Confusing awake and in Samadhi/Trans with "Life" and "Death/Dieing" is highly illogical.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug

S. Ambarsaria Ji

In our nitnem we daily recite, 'aakha jeevan visrai mar jaon' (when I delve in gurbani I live while forgetting I die) or Nanak jit vaila visrai mera suwami *** vailai mar jao - When I forget you Oh my beloved I die. SGGS 562.4 - Now do I physically die by ignoring the gurbani and or am not living? This mean through these pankties, guru sahib is trying to convey the definition of janam and maran and is referring to spiritual death or spiritual living and not physical death.

Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni

 

[Ambarsaria]

Veer japjisahib04 ji thanks for your post. Veer it appears you have been confused by Bhagat Singh and Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji ("DUO" so I can easily reference their collective thought on this subject and not dis-respect, please) on a temprarily basis.

Let us review,

S. Ambarsaria Ji
'aakha jeevan visrai mar jaon' (when I delve in gurbani I live while forgetting I die) or Nanak jit vaila visrai mera suwami *** vailai mar jao - When I forget you Oh my beloved I die. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 562.4 -


A. There is no shadow of a doubt in what is stated above,

• Not being " always aware/(ਹਰ ਵੇਲੇ/ਵੇਲਾ - ਚੇਤਾ/ਯਾਦ) " of the creator is likened to death.

B. The duo define death as in based on the posts above,

1. Amarjit Singh ji mentions withdrawal of senses
2. Nothing belongs to me anymore
3. I have no friends, no strangers, no enemies.

​

These are not deaths that are stated in your quote. The DUO is actually redefining Sikhism through convoluted meditational practices and try to link "to death" or living/death duality.

The practices that they defines as cited above are simply means to "concentrate" some how mis-translated into a virtual death while living.

I will dialog further but I want us to understand what the "DUO" is saying first.

Based on thanks to your post, they seem to imply your thoughts are like their's. Actually you are citing "always aware" to be living and they are stating "lack of awareness" (close eyes, forget all, La La land) as the message from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I will comment further as this dialog develops.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Ambarsaria ji,
I don't know about Lala land but certainly close your eyes and free yourself from what you know. It is only when one frees themselves from what they know that they can understand another human being at a deep level. This is a state of maximum awareness. Thinking otherwise is just plain ignorance of the phenomenon. Freedom from what you know is also what happens at death so part of the "Dieing while remaining alive" process. In science, when we don't understand something we experiment and note patterns, analyze until we do. The experiment here is to simply close your eyes and free your self from everything (just like in death).

There's a book you can read by Krishnamurti called "Freedom from the Known". I think this book is more suited to how you relate to spirituality. It is the contemplative approach whereas Bhagat Kabir ji and other Guru Sahib present a meditative approach. Read more of their bani to understand the meditative approach. Lucky Singh ji and I discussed a shabad by Guru Arjan Dev ji on Hindu Sikh identity thread. That shabad mentions the dieing while living concept. You should start there.
Now I should warn you Krishnamurti heavily criticizes Gurus and spiritual men in his book. It is not for the weak-hearted Sikh.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria ji,
I don't know about Lala land but certainly close your eyes and free yourself from what you know.

Bhagat Singh veer ji now I understand what is happening with you.

• You closed your eyes
  
• freed yourself from what you know
• You dump in Krishnamurti
  • You made sure that you take in all of his criticism of Sikh Gurus
  • I realize the balancing act you always perform to so called "think for both side"
• Sorry brother, no dice.
  • You can burn a copy of Krishnamurti for me if you can afford to buy one
• Leaving clean clear waters of SGGS you want to drink from the cesspools of Hinduism, be my guest

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

No, you really don't.
He criticized the whole Hindu Guru-Sikh (or Guru Shishya), Teacher-Disciple system. You did know that Hinduism works through and propagates itself through a Guru-Sikh system, right?

DELETED

Truth has many sides to it. The best way to look at someone's garden is to look at it as you walk around and see it from varying perspectices.

DELETED

 

[Ambarsaria]

No, you really don't.
He criticized the whole Hindu Guru-Sikh (or Guru Shishya), Teacher-Disciple system. You did know that Hinduism works through and propagates itself through a Guru-Sikh system, right?

Bhagat Singh ji I would have loved to see Gur Nanak Dev ji (as Guru, teacher, Dah I do!) and SGGS as my Guru (Teacher, Dah I do!). What kind of garbage one needs to understand from such Krishnamurti's other than that these are fast food ways of munching rather than dig and do through SGGS yourself. It is like pre-digested food that the new born chicks are fed by the birds. This is not adult food for so called enlightened, for example like yourself and Amarjit Singh ji. You are adults who can understand rather being given solutions. Are you saying you cannot find stuff for spirituality in SGGS? Really! That is so unique.

Brother I don't like clutter. Clutter lets you shift, keep moving from one philosophy/spirituality to another, to another, in the name of so called higher or impartial learning. It is simply an ego stroking tool.

Brother don't confuse general interest books as spirituality for life. Soon enough you are done with fad cycle you will pick up another one. Ask Amarjit Singh ji's about his merry go around ending up without any direction just to be Hindu-Sikh-Sanatan .....

Good luck to you in your ways.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Are you saying you cannot find stuff for spirituality in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

There's a book you can read by Krishnamurti called "Freedom from the Known". I think this book is more suited to how you relate to spirituality. It is the contemplative approach whereas Bhagat Kabir ji and other Guru Sahib present a meditative approach. Read more of their bani to understand the meditative approach. Lucky Singh ji and I discussed a shabad by Guru Arjan Dev ji on Hindu Sikh identity thread. That shabad mentions the dieing while living concept. You should start there.

No dialogue happens when we don't read posts carefully.

 

[Ambarsaria]

No dialogue happens when we don't read posts carefully.

Bye brother, this stone too hard to take this kind of garbage in. Try softer targets at spn, there are quite a few.

Sat Sri Akal. peacesign

PS: In case we forgotten,

brain·wash·ing  <noscript><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/B05/B0574300">

</noscript>[breyn-wosh-ing, -waw-shing]
noun
any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, especially one based on repetition or confusion: brainwashing by TV commercials.

(see this defined specific to this thread; http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/38108-lessons-god-what-happens-when-we-10.html#post162269)

 

[amarjit singh bamrah]

Veerji

Throughout the begining of creation many Avtaars have been born as Humans and will continue to take birth in future.


I wonder sometimes if we met Baba Nanak now in this modern Western influenced society,and he tried to tell us about what he taught many centuries ago.

About unconditional love and that the only religion is love for the divine.
Not to speak bad about any one or any other religion.

what would our reaction be?

Man, who should cultivate his inherent loving nature, has become stony hearted.
To accomplish his desires, man should cultivate forbearance, love and compassion.
You cannot please God if you are full of envy, pride and ostentation.
God will respond only to unsullied Love and compassion.

Proverb


How would we accept his teachings.

Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing.

(Speech is energy, the saints say what ever we utter happens and we have to reap the Karma of our actions.) ​

- Proverbs 12:19​

​

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

No, you really don't.
He criticized the whole Hindu Guru-Sikh (or Guru Shishya), Teacher-Disciple system. You did know that Hinduism works through and propagates itself through a Guru-Sikh system, right?

BHAGAT SINGH Ji,
That is what exactly NANAK ji presented.
NANAK ji made aware common people about the REAL GuRu.

I have read this book but at many places the subject is overstated.
There was nothing wrong with the tradition of GuRoo/Sishya .This relation ship is inherent everywhere .The only thing is by virtue of ignorance the realtionship was being exploited .
Gurbanee makes us to establish the same relationship with A TRUE and PERFECT GuRoo (THe CREATOR ) manifested as Prabhu(ULTIMATE LORD) thru GuR of Gurbanee.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Veerji

Throughout the begining of creation many Avtaars have been born as Humans and will continue to take birth in future.


I wonder sometimes if we met Baba Nanak now in this modern Western influenced society,and he tried to tell us about what he taught many centuries ago.

About unconditional love and that the only religion is love for the divine.
Not to speak bad about any one or any other religion.

what would our reaction be?

Man, who should cultivate his inherent loving nature, has become stony hearted.
To accomplish his desires, man should cultivate forbearance, love and compassion.
You cannot please God if you are full of envy, pride and ostentation.
God will respond only to unsullied Love and compassion.

Proverb


How would we accept his teachings.

Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing.​

(Speech is energy, the saints say what ever we utter happens and we have to reap the Karma of our actions.) ​

- Proverbs 12:19​

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਪੁਕਾਰਨਿ ਪੋਥੀਆ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸਭਿ ਕੂੜੁ ਗਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਹੋਛੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ਭਗਤਾ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ॥ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਮੋਹੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਿ ਨਸੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਾਦਿ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਰੁੰਨਿਆ ॥ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਮੂਲਿ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਛੁੰਨਿਆ ॥੨॥ ਮੇਰੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਧਾਰਿ ਬੰਧਨਿ ਬੰਧਿਆ ॥ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਧੰਧਿਆ ॥੩॥ ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਿ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਹਾਰਿਆ ॥੪

Amarjeet Singh ji, how you would be taking the teachings from this sabad about the concept of AVTAR.....see the last line carefully.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ सूही महला ५ ॥ Sūhī mėhlā 5. Soohee, Fifth Mehl:

ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਪੁਕਾਰਨਿ ਪੋਥੀਆ ॥ सिम्रिति बेद पुराण पुकारनि पोथीआ ॥ Simriṯ beḏ purāṇ pukāran pothī▫ā. The Simritees, the Vedas, the Puraanas and the other holy scriptures proclaim

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸਭਿ ਕੂੜੁ ਗਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਹੋਛੀਆ ॥੧॥ नाम बिना सभि कूड़ु गाल्ही होछीआ ॥१॥ Nām binā sabẖ kūṛ gālĥī hocẖẖī▫ā. ||1|| that without the Naam, everything is false and worthless. ||1||
ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ਭਗਤਾ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ॥ नामु निधानु अपारु भगता मनि वसै ॥ Nām niḏẖān apār bẖagṯā man vasai. The infinite treasure of the Naam abides within the minds of the devotees.

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਮੋਹੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਿ ਨਸੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जनम मरण मोहु दुखु साधू संगि नसै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Janam maraṇ moh ḏukẖ sāḏẖū sang nasai. ||1|| rahā▫o. Birth and death, attachment and suffering, are erased in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ||1||Pause||
ਮੋਹਿ ਬਾਦਿ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਰੁੰਨਿਆ ॥ मोहि बादि अहंकारि सरपर रुंनिआ ॥ Mohi bāḏ ahaʼnkār sarpar runni▫ā. Those who indulge in attachment, conflict and egotism shall surely weep and cry.

ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਮੂਲਿ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਛੁੰਨਿਆ ॥੨॥ सुखु न पाइन्हि मूलि नाम विछुंनिआ ॥२॥ Sukẖ na pā▫iniĥ mūl nām vicẖẖunni▫ā. ||2|| Those who are separated from the Naam shall never find any peace. ||2||
ਮੇਰੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਧਾਰਿ ਬੰਧਨਿ ਬੰਧਿਆ ॥ मेरी मेरी धारि बंधनि बंधिआ ॥ Merī merī ḏẖār banḏẖan banḏẖi▫ā. Crying out, "Mine! Mine!", he is bound in bondage.

ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਧੰਧਿਆ ॥੩॥ नरकि सुरगि अवतार माइआ धंधिआ ॥३॥ Narak sur
ag avṯār mā▫i▫ā ḏẖanḏẖi▫ā. ||3|| Entangled in Maya, he is reincarnated in heaven and hell.

||3||ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਤ ਸੋਧਿ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥ सोधत सोधत सोधि ततु बीचारिआ ॥ Soḏẖaṯ soḏẖaṯ soḏẖ ṯaṯ bīcẖāri▫ā. Searching, searching, searching, I have come to understand the essence of reality.

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਸਰਪਰ ਹਾਰਿਆ ॥੪॥ नाम बिना सुखु नाहि सरपर हारिआ ॥४॥ Nām binā sukẖ nāhi sarpar hāri▫ā. ||4|| Without the Naam, there is no peace at all, and the mortal will surely fail.

 

[Harry Haller]

ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ भैरउ महला ५ ॥ Bẖairo mėhlā 5. Bhairao, Fifth Mehl:

ਨਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਬੇਦ ਅਰੁ ਨਾਦ ॥ नामु हमारै बेद अरु नाद ॥ Nām hamārai beḏ ar nāḏ. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is for me the Vedas and the Sound-current of the Naad.

ਨਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਪੂਰੇ ਕਾਜ ॥ नामु हमारै पूरे काज ॥ Nām hamārai pūre kāj. Through the Naam, my tasks are perfectly accomplished.

ਨਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਦੇਵ ॥ नामु हमारै पूजा देव ॥ Nām hamārai pūjā ḏev. The Naam is my worship of deities.

ਨਾਮੁ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੧॥ नामु हमारै गुर की सेव ॥१॥ Nām hamārai gur kī sev. ||1|| The Naam is my service to the Guru. ||1||

ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਿਓ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ गुरि पूरै द्रिड़िओ हरि नामु ॥ Gur pūrai ḏariṛa▫o har nām. The Perfect Guru has implanted the Naam within me.

My understanding is that with the Naam, one has no need for anything else, and indeed, anything else is merely an illusion that will not give you the true essence of Naam.

Of course we must have respect for all religions, and only a fool would think that Sikhism is the only religion that delivers, however, to be a Doctor, one must apply oneself to a particular field, and excel in it, rather than dabble in many fields and be an expert in none

If the name, the naam, be Truth, then the truth that the perfect Guru has implanted in me can only be the voice of God within, it would be appear that this truth, this voice of God, essence of Creator is worth everything and from this truth springs forward the rituals and deities that many embrace as bigger than the source, the truth itself

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

to be a Doctor, one must apply oneself to a particular field,

Veer Ji You are not the doctor ,you are the patient,the doctrine you follow is your prescription.The Guru is the Soul Doctor.

 

[Harry Haller]

Veer Ji You are not the doctor ,you are the patient,the doctrine you follow is your prescription.The Guru is the Soul Doctor.

Ok Spji, to use language that is consistent, if a patient wishes to be cured, they will normally consult a specialist and have a course of treatment, a prescription from that specialist. If the Guru is the soul doctor, and I am in need of a prescription, how many Doctors should I see? and should I take a prescription from each one?

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Veer Ji You are not the doctor ,you are the patient,the doctrine you follow is your prescription.The Guru is the Soul Doctor.

Who can refuse that GuRu is not Doctor? Every one should be able to read and understand the prescription of GuRu ..DOCTOR.
This is the only purpose of sharing the views.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ok Spji, to use language that is consistent, if a patient wishes to be cured, they will normally consult a specialist and have a course of treatment, a prescription from that specialist. If the Guru is the soul doctor, and I am in need of a prescription, how many Doctors should I see? and should I take a prescription from each one?

My brothers Harry Haller ji and sp ji, I believe the doctor analogy is little Vedic derivative. This is like give/prescribe me something (or I prescribe for self), I take it and I get better. This analogy fails in reference to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I believe the only relationship I can sustain or understand in this context is Teacher (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji)/Student (Sikh). Most importantly we must recognize Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a teacher and not a textbook, cookbook, book of pharmocology, soul recipes, etc. It really is a teacher which helps one use own brain to be levearged in understanding and learning.

Sat Sri Akal. icecreammunda

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

how many Doctors should I see? and should I take a prescription from each one

Veer ji because you are feeling a little poorly it makes you see more than one doctor,prescription is Truth,Pharmacy is in you.I agree with Master Musketeer he is the Teacher and we the Student,Teachers also provide medicine if I remember rightly and some Students need it.

 

[Harry Haller]

I think the key question is

can one find enlightenment through several teachers/syllabuses simultaneously?

 

[Harry Haller]

Veer ji because you are feeling a little poorly it makes you see more than one doctor,prescription is Truth,Pharmacy is in you.

I have listened to many Doctors, and respect many Doctors, but only trust the knowledge and experience of one