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Lessons From God - What Happens When We Die? - Where Could We Go? - What Is Attachment & Detachment?

Ambarsaria

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The example by your father seems to be a Darshan. Darshan is an insight, revelation and illumination. Your father probably gained insight into something that allowed him to make the decision. You should have asked him the details.
Bhagat Singh ji my father gave me the details but this is father-son dialog that will forever be sealed and he passed away in 1989. You think I am staright shooter, aggressive, perhaps at times stubborn, you never met him. He was pure as morning dew but direct as a sharp knife.

He was no Akali Dal person but followed Congress from Politics. He was elected member of the Punjab University Senate representing the High/Secondary Schools Headmasters/Principals across the undivided Punjab. He received a written Murder Threat in one of these elections to be shot dead or drop out, he said whatever and won!

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Ambarsaria

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You should be doing that regardless. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there is constant reminder to meditate.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

you say tomato

Anyway I have things to do, I have had 4 baths now and I can still smell dog poo
Come on Harry Veer ji you are halllucinating again. I don't smell anything here!

Big dog, big poo, e---oooouh!

Sat Sri akal.
 

Harry Haller

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Come on Harry Veer ji you are halllucinating again. I don't smell anything here!

Big dog, big poo, e---oooouh!

Sat Sri akal.
Oh? you didnt take part in yesterdays form formless experiment then?

We all had to smear dog poo under our noses, how come you missed it?
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Oh? you didnt take part in yesterdays form formless experiment then?

We all had to smear dog poo under our noses, how come you missed it?[/QUOTE]

Pretty simple veer Harry ji. I have smelled dog diarrhea. If you smelled it once you never need to smell anything else ever again coming from the backend of a dog lol. Paint some Hi Karate after shave near your nostrils. You folks much too much! Party on dudes :mundabhangra: :singhbhangra:

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Apr 25, 2006
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No Harry ji, It's not meditate OR understand and implement. It is meditate, understand and implement. You are creating false dichotomies where none exist.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is contantly reminding the reader to meditate. And if someone is wants to follow the Sikh spiritual tradition they better start meditating. (It is similar to reminding you to eat nutritious food and to exercise daily.) If you are going to join a tradition, at some point you want to follow what it says. Otherwise, what was the point of joining it, you might as well have stayed wherever you were before.

Yeah I like to tell people what to do. It's fun. icecreammunda
You are Harry Haller, you don't like telling others what to do. But for some reason you want others to like what you like. You want them to behave like you. Well that is not going to happen.

Hahaa it is quite funny that you think that by not telling others what to do, you are doing them a favour.
 

Ambarsaria

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Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is contantly reminding the reader to meditate. And if someone is wants to follow the Sikh spiritual tradition they better start meditating.
Bhagat Singh veer ji I have a comment.

Sometimes when I deeply review Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I feel like I am lost in that and nothing else. I get joy from such state and a unique realization. Can you meditate with eyes wide open and be doing it without realizing to be so doing? If such is a case what is the point of belaboring on the label "Meditation" versus defining how it can arise un-initiated and without effort. Which is better forcing self into or the one that comes by own?

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Seeker9

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Dear Bhagat Singh Ji

Your points around Darshan are well made

However, I have difficulty accepting the concept that some people can access the Spiritual resource (or whatever you want to call it) as and when they like or as easily as crossing the road

Maybe I'm just jealous I have never had such an experience.....
 
Apr 25, 2006
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That is a good question Ambarsaria Veerji.
Both are necessary. (It's the same thing though. In reality there is no "both" just a difference in form.)
In one case you are reading. In the other, you are chanting or simply sitting there. The latter is a more "pure" form of meditation designed to relax the intellect while the previous one keeps the intellect contracted. You want to contract the intellect fully to train it but you also want to relax the intellect fully. You want to practice doing both contraction and relaxation. This is akin to the miri piri principle. Participating greatly in wordly acitivities and rituals (miri) while also going deep within the self (piri). You do both and get good at both. Teh contraction and relaxation are complimentary. They have a positive effect on each other.

Meditation always arises uninitiated without effort. Whenever someone is said to be meditating, they did not force it. Forcing is a contraction hence it prevents meditation. If you are good at it it should arise uninitiated without effort whilst you are doing nothing. When it does, it results in relaxation of the intellect. When this happens there is no observer and observed but simply perception (dhyan). This is where you get to when you read SGGS. But if you stop reading and maintain this dhyan. Your perception grows and becomes starkly accurate. Then the intellect relaxes enough to stop perceiving things in duality, and sees Oneness for what it is. This is growth of perception to it's most accurate stage, the seeing of Oneness (Samadhi).

(On a side note: Certain things can only be discovered/known in the relaxed intellect state similar to how certain things are only known in contracted intellect state (*cough* calculus *cough*). You will either come to know them through meditation or will never know them, no matter how many books you read! I cannot stress this enough!)

Balance this with times your intellect is contracted. The intellect contracts when you study, solve problems, do math, make plans, or simply think (critically). We contract the intellect to read spiritual texts but we must relax it to understand them. In moments where you relax the intellect fully you will have your own wisdom come to you. Also it is in the relaxation of the intellect that these things manifest:
Confused ji on a different thread said:
kindness, giving, morality, truthfulness, patience, detachment and so on.
Hope that made sense.

PS The word in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for contracted intellect is bibek buddhi, the discerning intellect. A gurmukh must possess bibek buddhi as well as the qualities quoted above.

Seeker9 ji,
I know life is not fair like that. Some people are better than me at math, some are better than me at art, etc. Some people ooze creativity. They are blessed indeed. The same thing happens with spirituality.

Remember, you can do it to but with time and practice. It is 10-15% talent the rest is skill that has been refined through hours and hours of labour. The artist sits there and draws for 10,000 hours before he becomes a master. The basketball player misses many shots before he becomes a pro. You gotta believe it's possible and you gotta be willing to put the time and energy into it.
 
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Harry Haller

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No Harry ji, It's not meditate OR understand and implement. It is meditate, understand and implement. You are creating false dichotomies where none exist.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is contantly reminding the reader to meditate. And if someone is wants to follow the Sikh spiritual tradition they better start meditating. (It is similar to reminding you to eat nutritious food and to exercise daily.) If you are going to join a tradition, at some point you want to follow what it says. Otherwise, what was the point of joining it, you might as well have stayed wherever you were before.

Yeah I like to tell people what to do. It's fun. icecreammunda
You are Harry Haller, you don't like telling others what to do. But for some reason you want others to like what you like. You want them to behave like you. Well that is not going to happen.

Hahaa it is quite funny that you think that by not telling others what to do, you are doing them a favour.
The thought of anyone behaving like me fills me with horror actually, and I have yet to find anyone that likes what I like, I am honest about who I am, and I am happy that through living, I have come to many of the same conclusions as my fellow brothers and sisters, however I would not advocate the road.

Allow me to be frank, I have an aversion to meditation, thats just me, if and when the good Lord thinks I should embrace it, I am sure he will let me know and you will be the first I will ask for assistance.

There is at present too much internal debate to find peace in meditation, and I have to have pointless arguments with someone now that Spji no longer wants to play
 
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Jan 18, 2012
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Dear Bhagat Singh Ji

Your points around Darshan are well made

However, I have difficulty accepting the concept that some people can access the Spiritual resource (or whatever you want to call it) as and when they like or as easily as crossing the road

Maybe I'm just jealous I have never had such an experience.....
As Bhagat Singhji wrote in his words

"Practice makes a man perfect"


When we meditate we slowly loose our EGO conciousness
and move into God conciousness.

Without Meditation we are still working in our EGO Conciousness
and we feel God is the Do-er however we are still the Do-er
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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MEDITATION on "SATNAAM" would be like....say each time one wants to LIE/speak an untruth..even a white lie...one MEDITATES on such an action and tells the TRUTH...

Meditation on NIRBHAU..would be..each time one feels THREATENED..feels FEAR coming...one MEDITATES on this and REMAINS FEARLESS....Bhai MANI SINGH..pointing out to the executioner that his orders are to CUT each JOINT...not take short cuts...so take your time..sever each joint...and follow YOUR ORDERS..as I FOLLOW MINE.

Mediation on NIRVAIR..is to feel LOVE when the actual feeling creeping on is ENMITY...meditate on Compassion...love...dharma..pity...dya...care...BHAI KHANIYAH JI..feeding water and medicines to all wounded...Sikh and Non Sikh because he sees the face of GGS on all..Muslims as well as sikhs..

Meditation is not an activity in ISOLATION..carried out with closed eyes, lights out..in dark caves..or dungeons....repeating adnauseum certain meaningless words mantras.....ITS ACTION ORIENTED carried out SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH LIFE ACTIVITIES.
Malas and Japmalas, counting and all that is pure bull.****...roundly condemned in GURBANI asa THUGGH ACTIVITY.
 
Jan 18, 2012
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MEDITATION on "SATNAAM" would be like....say each time one wants to LIE/speak an untruth..even a white lie...one MEDITATES on such an action and tells the TRUTH...

Meditation on NIRBHAU..would be..each time one feels THREATENED..feels

Malas and Japmalas, counting and all that is pure bull.****...roundly condemned in GURBANI asa THUGGH ACTIVITY.

The Meditation being discussed I thought was in meditation in Silence
Our Gurus and my parents also used the Japa Mala and chanted Satnaam Waheguru and/or other names for God!

And so do I

We must be wasted THUGG's
 

Harry Haller

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MEDITATION on "SATNAAM" would be like....say each time one wants to LIE/speak an untruth..even a white lie...one MEDITATES on such an action and tells the TRUTH...

Meditation on NIRBHAU..would be..each time one feels THREATENED..feels FEAR coming...one MEDITATES on this and REMAINS FEARLESS....Bhai MANI SINGH..pointing out to the executioner that his orders are to CUT each JOINT...not take short cuts...so take your time..sever each joint...and follow YOUR ORDERS..as I FOLLOW MINE.

Mediation on NIRVAIR..is to feel LOVE when the actual feeling creeping on is ENMITY...meditate on Compassion...love...dharma..pity...dya...care...BHAI KHANIYAH JI..feeding water and medicines to all wounded...Sikh and Non Sikh because he sees the face of GGS on all..Muslims as well as sikhs..

Meditation is not an activity in ISOLATION..carried out with closed eyes, lights out..in dark caves..or dungeons....repeating adnauseum certain meaningless words mantras.....ITS ACTION ORIENTED carried out SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH LIFE ACTIVITIES.
Malas and Japmalas, counting and all that is pure bull.****...roundly condemned in GURBANI asa THUGGH ACTIVITY.
I have no problem with this, but as Amarjitji rightly points out it is the very Malas and Japmalas that are being lauded here, not what I would call focusing the mind and implementing Bani.........
 
Apr 25, 2006
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We just went over this. Miri Piri - going outward and doing wordly things as well as going deeply inward. You gotta do both. Mental contraction ad relaxation. You gotta do both. Another example would be muscle contraction and relaxation.

There is at present too much internal debate to find peace in meditation, and I have to have pointless arguments with someone now that Spji no longer wants to play
Compulsive internal debate like that is akin to fatigue, sore muscles and frequent muscle cramps and contractions due to intensive exercise.
In order to work out and exercise the muscles, you need to relax them too. There are things (namely muscle growth and repair) that happen in relaxation that do not happen in contraction. Massage which is even further relaxation promotes blood flow (thus inflow of nutrients and oxygen) to those nooks and crannies inside your body, further promoting muscle growth and a healthy body overall.

"carried out with closed eyes, lights out..in dark caves..or dungeons" complements the Miri. There are Truths you can only discover in solitude, deep inside your mind. These Truths once discovered, then allow you to really understand what Guru Sahibs and Bhagats are saying in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, because they have also discovered these Truths through meditation in solitude. The only way to know if what they are saying is true is to actually do the experiment inside your consciousness. (Now of course, you can also take their word for it and simply do what they say. That's fine too.)

Things like creativity, wisdom, insight, virtues, art, music, dance, sports performance, etc best arise in a relaxed intellect. Doing them also promotes a relaxed intellect. This is why Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is also heavy on kirtan and bhajans alongside and even combined with meditation. Constant reminders not only to repeat God's name and meditate but also sing Lord's praises. Everything is organized in musical structure. Music and bani go hand in hand because music relaxes the intellect. The whole system is designed to relax the intellect as the individual goes through the prescribed activities.

Those expecting results after one session of meditation will be deeply unsatisfied. This is a long-term goal. Like exercise, you won't see the changes after a few sessions in the gym.

PS Mala is just a tool (a very good one nonetheless). Humans like to do things with their hands. Mala keeps the hand(s) busy. Another way is to touch your index or middle finger with your thumb, or to bring your hands together and rest one on top of the other. Hands want to touch, they want to constantly touch and play around with things.
 
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Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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PS Mala is just a tool (a very good one nonetheless). Humans like to do things with their hands. Mala keeps the hand(s) busy.

Another way is to touch your index or middle finger with your thumb, or to bring your hands together and rest one on top of the other. Hands want to touch, they want to constantly touch and play around with things.

Putting a Tilak on the forehead and wearing saffron/white clothes also helps while one chants "Om Shanti Om" lol. By the way lighter clothes like Dhoti/wrap is perfect for such. If you feel that you are looking naked you can wear a symbolic string around your neck intertwining around your torso (search the Web under "Janeau" and you can buy it online)

One ready for such meditation will likely look like this,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What has become of Sikhs!



I can almost visualize Baba Deep Singh ji doing it while he went to die for you, me and all the Sikhs .
:disgustedmunda:
Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Jan 18, 2012
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Sat Sri Akal.

Sikhism and the Khlasa should also be about unconditional love

Its not all about war and aggression.

However we have lost the plot!
The question was where do we go when we die.
and what is attachment and detachment?
Are we too attached to our attachments
that when the time comes, when the call comes for us to leave this body and prepare ourselv for our re-incarnation have we detached our self ?

In our scriptures it states You come empty handed and you go empty handed

Learn:) to practice Attachment and detachment.
 

Ambarsaria

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Dec 21, 2010
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Sikhism and the Khlasa should also be about unconditional love

Its not all about war and aggression.

However we have lost the plot!
The question was where do we go when we die.
and what is attachment and detachment?
Are we too attached to our attachments
that when the time comes, when the call comes for us to leave this body and prepare ourselv for our re-incarnation have we detached our self ?

In our scriptures it states You come empty handed and you go empty handed

Learn:) to practice Attachment and detachment.
Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji thanks for your post.

I ask you, "Are you not attached to your ideas?" Attachment does not have to be to objects. From the beigning of the date of this thread to date, how much of your original ideas, approach have become de-attached?

Veer you are a smart man but too engrossed on cut and pastes and less open to discourse where change may occur. I am not a push over or easy nut either but I have learned tremendously over the last twelve months here and it may not show but that is just me.

So think about approach in terms of Sikhism and Sikhi and let us see how your last two posts check out,


  1. References to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in detail = ZERO
  2. Reduction in cutting and pasting avatar style pictures of Guru jis = ZERO
  3. I am not a preacher = I have not seen any learning from posts in this thread, really you continue to preach
    • Judge of this is the audience and not you
Again I think you have tremendous wisdom but it is mis-placed and misapplied to what you claim Sikhism to be based on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji take comments with this as a supposition. Enemies would encourage you even for mistakes, friends will point the mistakes so you make less with every passing day. This is how I take comments addressed to me kudihug and I hope you don't take offense to mine. If it bothers you I will stop responding except where Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji I believe is mis-quoted or mis-represented.
 
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Luckysingh

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Sikhism and the Khlasa should also be about unconditional love

Its not all about war and aggression.

However we have lost the plot!
The question was where do we go when we die.
and what is attachment and detachment?
Are we too attached to our attachments
that when the time comes, when the call comes for us to leave this body and prepare ourselv for our re-incarnation have we detached our self ?

In our scriptures it states You come empty handed and you go empty handed

Learn:) to practice Attachment and detachment.
We are very much attached.
Infact, we feel it is just a few physical attachments, when infact it's even our beliefs that we become attached to.
Attachments are ALL that we have difficulty detaching and also they can be anything that we keep with us as we progress from day to day. This may well be physical posessions, things learnt, mental and spiritual beliefs and our actions.


Waheguru
Lucky Singh
 

Kanwaljit.Singh

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that when the time comes, when the call comes for us to leave this body and prepare ourselv for our re-incarnation have we detached our self ?
Death would detach us from everything and there would be nothing left of 'me' to reincarnate. My thoughts, my memories, my feelings, my disappointments will be all gone. Everything within me would break into pieces, smaller and smaller and be flown away with the wind and rain.

We are like computer programs in a memory, as long as we work on finding our solution, we can solve the problem and reach the next level of execution (as a process). If not, we run out of laptop battery, we shut down and all things in the memory (not hard disk, that could be DNA) would be lost. After some time, if we get a power source, we might 'restart' but there would be no trace of the process running before. A new process would be started and it would again try to find the solution.

And the complexity of reaching a solution is infinite in terms of time and space!

PS: Don't mind my philosophical outburst and computer science lingo!
 

Ambarsaria

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Death would detach us from everything and there would be nothing left of 'me' to reincarnate. My thoughts, my memories, my feelings, my disappointments will be all gone. Everything within me would break into pieces, smaller and smaller and be flown away with the wind and rain.
Kanwaljit Singh ji don't be too hard on yourself. If we were to follow your assertion, we would not know our Guru ji's existed and gave us Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

We live through others and others live through us. It is the interactions, the memories, the changes in our outlook, and so on. Such have spiritual/soul as well as associated physical manifestations. I call it soft re-incarnation or living transformation which is not based on "one dies and become exactly one of something else". Neither all is positive and nor all is negative, it is what it is.

This is one creator's one creation. We are all one before birth, in life and after death, just the physical shape and the type of interactions change.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

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