Is It More Important To Believe In God Or To Be A Sikh

Discussion in 'Questions & Answers' started by Truthsikher31, Apr 30, 2018.

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  1. Truthsikher31

    Truthsikher31 SPNer

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    To be a Sikh, you pretty much believe in the existence of God. But people will argue how to be a Sikh, like I'm Sikh but cut hair, yet believe in God inside me. But there are people who are not Sikhs (Jews, Hindus, Christians, etc.) who also believe in God.

    If it was proven that there is no God, would you continue to live life as a Sikh, like keep the 5ks?

    Or

    Would you still believe in God, if it was proved that one of the other religions was correct and Sikhism was wrong?
     
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  3. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    I vote neither. I reckon it's more important to be a virtuous, reasonable, cooperative person. If that aligns with belief in God and/or the lifestyle Sikhi teaches (I perceive that it does), then all the better.

    To continue to believe in something that has been proven false is ridiculous. As far as I know the 5ks lifestyle of an amritdhari Sikh is not contingent on the existence of God. They simply fortify the Sikh discipline and way of life.

    There is too much to assume behind this question to be able to answer it. Would you like to give more context to it and ask it again? How does any particular religion get proven as 'correct'?
     
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  4. Jasdeep118

    Jasdeep118 SPNer

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    Well, Sikhism doesn't say its the only true religion, in my opinion, every religion is equal in a sense and none are right or wrong. Also, whats wrong with cutting your hair and being a Sikh, it doesn't mean you are a heretic or anything, I was in the same boat as you, I am 15, but when I was younger I had religious doubt in God, and was kind've an Agnostic, but now for some reason I have become more religious again without the influence of my parents, but through myself, I believe that there is something out there as well, even though I am a "Mona" Sikh, I am still a Sikh, and I have dreams that one day once I have an enongh money to change my name to only Jasdeep Singh and might grow a turban in the near future, but everything is in God's Hukam. Let me tell you TruthSikher31, I just felt the same way as you when I was younger, and it is good to question things.
     
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  5. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    I'm sikh and I don't believe in God
     
  6. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    Did you mean to reply to me, or to @Truthsikher31 ?
     
  7. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    define God, do you mean a beardy in sandals with a solemn look on his face? if so, nope I do not believe in God
    people will argue about anything and everything
    I do believe that is their right
    Jews and Christians believe in an Abrahamic God, this God has a human like personality and human like form,according to the respective religious manuscripts, it has anger, rage, love, jealousy, the Hindu God is however more of an ultimate reality, without the human personality and form, so clearly they do not believe in the same God.
    which God, the human one, or the ultimate reality one
    there is much more to being a Sikh than 'keeping' the 5k's, some Sikhs live by the 5k's without even keeping them, some keep them without living by them
    again, which God, if say Christianity were proven, and God had a human form with human emotions, would I believe in him, would I follow him? no probably not, I would see such a God as more of a Devil in disguise and would carry on living by Sikh principles
     
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  9. Truthsikher31

    Truthsikher31 SPNer

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    I don't believe in God, the Christian human form version or the Sikh belief there is a cosmic entity with a consciousness. Ok today's generation of Sikhs have a broader thinking when coming to God, but in the 1600s till probably last 20 years, you were. Sikh, practiced sikhi because it's what the gurus taught and left behind, and they claim to get it from God. Guru garanth sahib has its definition of God being no shape or form, no gender, (yet even in sikhi they refer God as a him). So if you practice sikhism its cuz you believe in God.

    I was just giving an ex of what people argue when defining what makes a Sikh ( like cutting hair). Obviously there's more but hair is always a crowd favorite to argue over.

    I'm saying if God in general is proven wrong. Like if science were to prove how we were created, and that it wasn't s some abrahamic version or some hindu diety, that there was no creator, and we were created by evolution or whatever.
    Isn't this the only reason God exists, mankind needs a reason as to why we are, it needs a an unexplainable reason as to how we came about. But if we can prove how we came to existence, then wouldn't it render all religions false since they are created on the basis of God.

    Most Sikhs will defend that sikhi doesn't teach about a physical God. Like I said before. No shape,or form. But if we pray to him, you'll get everything. "Rab da naam le oh" like just say his name when doing simran and you'll get everything, inner and outer.

    I find it more n more disgusting how people thank God for this n that. Like in a hurricane, people lose their homes and lives. Yet you'll see the survivors being interviewed, saying "thank God our home is ok, and nothing happened to us". Really?!?! He saves a select number n let's the rest suffer? If God is all powerful why not protect his beloved creations.
    There's a scientist Neil deGrasse Tyson who said something very interesting. Why a would a supreme being like God create a world and universe that is trying to kill us. On earth we have a plague viruses, natural disasters, and if we do survive that, then space is our ultimate death.
    So regardless of what God you believe in, if God is true is he all powerful or all good. Because it can't be both.

    Sorry for the rambling but if you do believe in God, could you please share why.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  10. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Truthsikher31,

    Guru Fateh

    I have been reading your tirade laden posts against Sikhi since my only post to you which said "Sikhi is not a religion and there is no God in Sikhi either the way both are considered in other religions" made you upset for the reasons only known to you.

    If you have a counter argument then please present it.

    Almost all of your posts are about the Abrahamic religions that you think belong to Sikhi which they don't. Nothing you have said so far does. Sadly, your disdain towards Sikhi shows your personal hatred laced with ignorance about Sikhi in which you were born in.

    If I were you I would ask the questions about Sikhi in order to learn rather than talking ill about it which defeats the purpose of learning but rather more ire for naught.
     
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    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  11. Truthsikher31

    Truthsikher31 SPNer

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    Your take is my posts are hatred towards Sikhi, fare enough. But you're just like any other person on a forum like this, just being defensive. If I used the Abrahamic religions, its because they have a history that came way before Sikh history. Ya sure religions like Hinduism also date back 1000s of years, but really? really? Their version of God or Gods has any credit? Elephants and multi-armed woman? I don't give credit to the Abrhamic religions either. They don't have any credit, just based on old texture. Rapture/judgement day. Its a joke. If the first religion was created from the word of God, then how come only a select group got the message. Why wasn't it delivered to all across the world. Why didn't the people living in East Asia get the same message as those in Africa or Middle East - 1000s of years ago. My take is, and please be firm with your response - don't b.s. that all religions are right in their own way - if the first religions of world are bogus, then what credit do religions following it have. Sikhism is about 500 years old. That is incredibly young. If you believe Sikhism is true, the gurus are true, their miracles are true, then do you believe in Jesus, or Mohammed? If you think the Abrahamic religions are wrong or false - like how they came about or what they believe in, then what makes Sikhism right. Isn't Sikhi created on the basis of a God? (and before you say No, and that Sikhi is just "a way of life" try telling that to rest of the Sikh population - that there is no God, and Sikhi is just a practice for enlightenment)

    But if you say there is a god and everyone is right in their own belief that their god is the True god, then that's just lame. It's lazy. If there is a God physical or non-physical whatever, then its supposed to be our creator, and there can only be one creator. Oh but wait, everyone has their own version of their God, and we have to nice to everyone's feelings. Please.... So then what, Jesus created the whites, Bhagwan created the hindus, and Sikhs were created from Cosmic dust?
    Instead of calling me hateful, why not provide actual, real facts that you can touch and see, Instead of hiding behind scriptures, and spiritual nonsense.

    I say there isnt a God, I cant see it, feel it, hear it, talk to it. Most people will say they can talk to him, or feel him within. Thats your mind convincing yourself to satisfy a belief you have.
    You say there is a God, then you prove it. Pray to him, ask him for a better world. Ask for a peaceful world without hate, ego, and suffering. Will it happen? No? why not. You're a religious person, a believer, why aren't such prayers answered.
    People thank god for coming out of a coma, or surviving a disaster, so was it truly God stepping in. If so why are random people selected. Why not save babies and kids from suffering, hunger, and birth disease. Again if there is a God, he is either all powerful or all good, cannot be both.

    Sorry if hurts to hear such comments, guess this topic should have been posted in Hard Talk.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  12. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Yes, and it is unfair.

    Thanks, Ms Cleo.

    But, the fact of the matter is Abrahamic religions have nothing to with Sikhi.
    Are you aware of that?

    Age has nothing to do with anything but you would not know.

    It is a shame to notice you have no idea about any religion. You don't know what you are talking about. I never talked about any religion. Stop with your dishonesty.

    OK. So what?

    Thanks again for flaunting your ignorance about Sikhi and other religions.
    What does "Sikhism is true, the gurus are true" mean?
    Sikhi has no miracles. Too bad you have no idea about it.
    No, I don't believe in either of them.


    Oh, stop with your incoherence! You are mixing apples and mangos here. I never said anything like that. Everyone is entitled to their belief system. Sikhi is not a belief system but you would not know that with your parochial mindset.

    Define God as per Sikhi first so we can move along.

    You have a fertile imagination. Sorry to burst your bubble mate your incoherence makes no sense. Please give it another shot. And stop acting like Ms Cleo all the time.

    Sorry to disappoint you again but your babble makes no sense.

    Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about

    Honesty doesn't seem to be your forte and you flaunt this trait of yours quite gallantly I must say. I never called you hateful.

    OK. What's your point?

    Why so incoherent again?

    Again, what are you talking about?
    What does all this have to do with our conversation?

    Sorry, you feel hurt.
     
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  13. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    I don't think that is entirely accurate.. abrahamic religions and very relevant to sikhi and understanding them contextualizes sikhi
     
  14. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Please elaborate your thoughts with tangible examples from the respective scriptures to prove your point so we can learn from it.
    Thanks
     
  15. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    Koi bole ram ram Koi khuda
    Sikhi in its rejection of the exclusivity and exceptionalism articulated by some expressions of Islam is implicit..
    And therefore is influenced by it.. just in the same way it is defined by its rejection of the caste system and is therefore influenced by'hinduism'
     
  16. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    I beg to differ with you. Showing Oneness does not mean the influence but rather distinction.

    Having said that, you have not been able to address your claim.

     
  17. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    I think I did by the very fact bani references abrahamic language.
     
  18. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    It is disengenuos to suggest sikhi is not informed by abrahamic religions. Guru nanak ji travelled to Mecca he must have been influenced by Islam
     
  19. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    Influenced by articulating a transcendence of those concepts
     
  20. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Just referring to a religion/s does not mean
    One needs theological similarities to prove one's claim like yours.

    As far as the caste system in Hinduism is concerned, one cannot cry for Equality without rejecting not only the caste system but also the class system.
     
  21. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Now you are talking about something else altogether I am afraid. Information is the basic thing to carve a different path.

    Having said that, you are trying the same trick as you did in the other thread where your distorted and edited my thought.

    Please read the whole discussion and try to contextualise it. Do not pick and choose some sentences which is disingenuous.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018

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