Is Bhatt Bani Not Guru?

[Sikh80]

It is perfectly o.k. I am sorry for the trouble. Kindly do as per your convenience.

Regards

 

[Astroboy]

Quoted By pk70

Here is just an example how wonderful Gyani Bhai Mani Singh ji can make mistake and why we as Sikhs should be careful.
ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੨ ॥ ਅਖੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਵੇਖਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕੰਨਾ ਸੁਨਣਾ ॥ ਪੈਰਾ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਚਲਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਹਥਾ ਕਰਣਾ ॥ ਜੀਭੈ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਇਉ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਣਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਕੈ ਤਉ ਖਸਮੈ ਮਿਲਣਾ ॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 139}
Here is Gyani ji’s interpretation on page 82-83”Gurbani Parvodh”
“ That Waheguru is without eyes but being observer watches all. He hasn’t any ears but he listens to every one. He is without feet but in others’ feet His walking power is present. He is without hands but every ones hands’ power of holding is His. He is without tongue but in others languages, His power is present. This way one who understands His ordinance and by being indifference to outside world, can meet Him”
This interpretation is unacceptable, it doesn’t convey Guru message, a Sikh should be alert about that. Now let’s read Dr. Sahib Singh’s interpretation, here it is
If one sees without eyes( meaning without looking at others things etc), without ears listens( means do not heed attention to others back biting etc) if without feet walks( means stops going to bad places or to do wrong), without hands one works( doesn’t use hands to snatch from others rights etc) without tongue one speaks( who doesn’t use tongue to slander other etc) this is the way to live without ego (living while dead means living without ago). So this way one understands His ordinance. In simple words all efforts should be put to mold our mind to live without ego and by being pure)
Gyani Mani Singh ji is not just like me who just happen to be on this site, he has a good credit of influencing people and directing people to Sikhi. Here Gyani ji is dead wrong.
On this site we have been discussing about interpretation of Gurbani, people here on this site have different views about it, I respect that. Only on one point I do give stress though, if any interpretation goes against Guru Sahib’s Principles, it should not be accepted. If that is strong language to swallow, I won’t say that but will keep saying that it doesn’t convey the message Guru ji intends to do as I have quoted one example above, the interpretation must be questioned. This kind of misinterpretation is a common place practice in Sikhs circles. When I see I try to express my concerns. That is all. *******************
__________________
HAR bisrat sda khuari Mehla 5
pk70

Pk70 Ji and Ekmusafir Ji,

I also feel that Prof. Sahib Singh missed the point when using only intellect to decipher this vaak. An aspirant needs to develop spiritual muscle in stages in order that unfoldment happens within one's self - Ajapa Jap going on at all times in an Unspeakable Language. Blind faith is one of the main obstacles to overcome. What we simply listen to, read or follow without investigating as to what and where it will lead to, is blind faith. If one is careless to forget the end while following the means, and does not see whether he is nearing the end or not, it is still blind faith. When one goes to a Master and listens attentively to the explanations given by Him on the subject of gaining Self-knowledge by self-analysis, duly supported by one or more quotations from the valuable sayings of various Saints, he is intellectually convinced to tread the path as an experimental measure and act up to what the Master says with faith for the time being. This is the first stepping-stone to learn about Reality. When he has the first-hand experience, of whatever degree it may be, he is convinced and progresses from day to day. Today, man listens to talks, lectures and sermons, accepts and believes these all his life and takes for granted that he has been placed firmly on the way to salvation. But when death comes with all its sufferings, pangs of separation and fears of the unknown, he realizes his mistake. Man's life-long habit of attachment to the body, occupies all his thoughts, while friends, doctors, relatives and priests stand by helpless and despairing.

Another misunderstanding which Prof. Sahib Singh created is in the intepretation of Guruvaak which starts : Ghar Mein Ghar Dekhai De, So Satgur Purukh Sujaan. He left out essential words which he could only have known by real experiences.

 

[pk70]

Another misunderstanding which Prof. Sahib Singh created is in the intepretation of Guruvaak which starts : Ghar Mein Ghar Dekhai De, So Satgur Purukh Sujaan. He left out essential words which he could only have known by real experiences.

Namjap ji
Thanks. Dr Sahib Singh is one of the best scholars I like; however, mistakes occur. People try their best. We should not just call them people with special agenda etc. Sikhs are supposed to be truth seekers, should always open to finding the real message Guru Sahiban tried to convey. If any mist is out there, this is the only way to dispel it. There are some people who just write for the sake of making money; however, there are those ones too who are very serious to find if some thing is missed out. Their aim is to follow Gurbani as Guru Sahiban ask to follow, nothing more than that. No one can convince any one, it is the open mind that decides if something is said is worth accepting or not.

 

[Astroboy]

Pk70 Ji,

I agree that Prof. Sahib Singh is the best scholar on Sri Guru Granth Sahib and also look forward to a continued posting from you in your new thread : http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/20531-a-journey-to-him-described-satguru.html

It was my ego that was talking, sorry I let it loose. Ekmusafir has more common sense than me because he stopped talking before me. I thought I had won the debate, but actually lost to my ego. It takes a person like you to show me the mirror and masks that I wear which hides my realself.

Thank you, paaji, thank you.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

The entire issue of challenging bani has to do with this manipulation of Truth. It is one thing to question, seeking deeper understanding. But to undermine, refute and challenge basic Sikh teaching isn't questioning at all...it is like the termite seeking to destroy foundation.

All these fine hair-splitting positions are designed to erode the authenticity and authority of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, Rehat Maryada, vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji and vaaran of Bhai Nand Lal Ji, and various historical commentaries which all the Takhts analyze, weigh and consider. These arguments are cleverly constructed to raise doubt in the mind of Guru's Sikhs about institutions of Gursikhi such as Kande-ki Pohul, daily recitation of nitenam, panj kakkars, and the underpinnings of Rehat Maryada and the very existence of the Khalsa. In short, they invent a new kind of Sikhi which please the secular person who doesn't want commitment to a Guru.

If one listens to the actual words of people like Kala Afghana, he goes so far as to challenge there is no atma...there is no karam...there is no paap...there is no Vaheguru. The man is an atheist acting as a missionary to preach the eroding disbeliefs and instill doubt in Sikhism. His supporters are more clever than he...they quote sweet Gurbani, and then challenge only certain things to erode confidence, like taking only a small step in an atheistic, anti-Gurmat direction.

To have discussions is fine. Even to have sincere questions is fine. But to impose atheistic secular philosophy into Gurmat Sikh teaching creates an uproar. And why not? It isn't clever talk anymore. Its a direct challenge to the legitimacy of Sikhism, history of Sikhism, culture of Sikhism and essential Sikh belief and institutions. It becomes anti-Gurmat missionary propaganda against the explicit directives of Akal Takht.

Go and debate whatever you want. Accept this but don't accept that. Take this part but tear apart the legitimacy of that part.... Once someone becomes a PREACHER of something against Sikh teaching on a public forum, and challenges the authority of Akal Takht on these matters...HE ENDS THE DISCUSSION for Sikhs.

When someone starts misleading people it is in fact a serious cause for worry.

And thats what these challenges and underminings are about. To lead people AWAY from Gurmat Gursikhi. This is how insidious this is...if we were having a discussion with atheists, secularists, Muslims, Christians, etc. We could present a Sikh position while respecting their right of difference. But this is a Sikh forum. And these debates are happening between Sikh people eroding the validity of Gursikh teaching. To what purpose? To justify lifestyle in contradiction to Gurmat while having the name Gurmat? It is a lie, a fraud, an audacity, and a challenge.

These are the same people who tell you it's okay for a Sikh to cut hair. To cut a child's hair until he is of age to decide for himself. They say a Sikh doesn't need amrit, and say there is no need for amrit at all because it is just self-righteous hypocrisy. These people take and pick what they choose from Gurbani, and go so far as to deny that some bani is even bani. They say don't believe the vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji, or vaaran of Bhai Nand Lal Ji or supporting vaaran of the Rehat Mayada, or even rehitnamay...they say it is only opinion...and they have a better, more informed, modern opinion! In short, they make an atheism out of a religion! They make an individual patchwork out of what should be surrendered submission to a SatGuru! They are making THEMSELVES equal to Guru! Because they interpret for themselves only what they want.

But that is not the case in Gurmat Gursikhi. Every bania, and every vaaran which have been accepted by the Takhts since the foundation of Sikhi all agree and cross-confirm. There is no contradiction at all.

Harjas ji

As mod, I don't have any problem with statements like this one below because they are expressions of opinion accompanied by fact.

Kala Afghana is a declared tankiya and excommunicated from the Sikh Panth. If you listen to his talks, he is a declared atheist. He and his supporters, followers of Sikh Missionary groups are in fact doubt-raisers since they challenge the legitimacy of Sikh beliefs and in particular, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji bani. They are anti-Gurmat because the substance of what they preach is contrary to Sikhism AND the express directives of Akal Takht. But one is jumping to conclusions when SPN members are also described this way. And it is unfair. The termite part is not necessary.
By doing these activities of misleading other people AWAY from Sikh teaching are undermining Sikh religion they are in fact termites working to undermine the foundations of the Sikh faith.

The part below works as an expression of opinion and you are debating an issue not a person in this section. OK.
If "other members" hold and preach these views then they choose to single themselves out.

Even if Akal Takht were to call people names, they are doing that in their own context, and people can decide whether it is dignified or not. I have noticed that arguments get hot and heavy in the Punjab too. SPN asks usto debate the issue, not the person. That is our policy. This is an Internet forum. That is our context.

To say I have aimed at the entire discussion when it has been stated by mahjor Sikh bodies including Akal Takht that NO NINDYA OF SRI DASAM GRANTH SAHIB JI BANI IS TO BE ALLOWED, then you are right. Where this has occured, I have pointed out it is in direct violation of the edict of Akal Takht Sahib Ji.

Speaking not-as-mod, my opinion is exactly the same as yours. But when these threads travel down the name-calling path, there is no way to get things back to a discussion. Thanks for returning to the topic so we can vet our points of view.

But one is jumping to conclusions when SPN members are also described this way. And it is unfair. The termite part is not necessary.
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No one is being singled out for name-calling here. I am addressing a challenge to the legitimacy of Gurbani itself. *******************************

But when these threads travel down the name-calling path, there is no way to get things back to a discussion. Thanks for returning to the topic so we can vet our points of view.
[/quote*****************************************
But one is jumping to conclusions when SPN members are also described this way. And it is unfair.

Y*********************************

SPN asks usto debate the issue, not the person. That is our policy.

Indeed. Kindly show what person was being debated and how my post derailed the issue and degenerated into the name-calling and person bashing you allege. Thank you. And if you cannot on the basis of my own words, I kindly ask you to stop alleging what I did not say.

*************************************

Even if Akal Takht were to call people names, they are doing that in their own context, and people can decide whether it is dignified or not.

Are you saying that when Akal Takht in the authority corrects the activities of a declared tankiya and his supporters and addresses them as mischevious and says their talk against Gurbani is "trash talk." That we can decide for ourselves whether Akal Takht Sahib Ji has any dignity in doing this? And even in this you do not once criticize the mischevious activities of the tankiya and his supporters but attack my post and put it in a false light and criticize the dignity of Akal Takht?
**************************

Calling someone a name, and being "unfair" to them as you allege is nowhere in my post. Or are you saying Akal Takht Sahib Ji is being unfair to the alleged tankiya and his supporters by condemning the actions they are taking to erode the confidence of the Sikh community in Guru's bani?

Because this is clearly the issue. It has been directly addressed. It is not derailed at all in this post. The only derailing of the issue was your accusation of name-calling and personal attack against a forum member(s). That was a complete derailment of my post and the validity of the points raised, DESPITE it being a quote from the position of Akal Takht Sahib in these matters.
**********************

The "position" about anti-Gurmat lifestyles being behind the challenge to bani outside of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji isn't relevent? How many arguments on this forum deal with challenges to Sikh teaching on the basis of wanting a homosexual marriage, or to be mona, or to criticize the panj kakkars and amrit? Or to drink and smoke, party, have relations with not the wife...and still be labeled...the Guru's Sikh? To say modern society does not even need the Khalsa? To say Guru didn't mean for their to be Khalsa because this bani was not in Shabad Guru Ji Maharaaj? Because groups of people are saying these things. That is the point of the criticism of bani. It is direct attack on the institution of the Khalsa Panth. It is direct intent to undermine Sikh teaching and Sikh morality.

If people (in general, not particular) such as Kala Afghana do not believe in karma, do not believe Guruji is in form of Vaheguru to speak timeless truth, do not believe in life after death...why should people be good? Why should people try to live with dharam? Why sacrifice your life for anything? Why not just party and have a great time? Why would we listen to bani at all? Why would we have belief in Shabad Guru Ji at all?

It isn't a lie, a fraud, an audacity and a challenge to Gurmat teaching to support these positions which challenge the legitimacy of Gurbani? It isn't the mischevious intent of certain groups to undermine the legitimacy of amritdhari Khalsa by attacking the validity of bani which supports the existence of Khalsa? Most particularly those bani supporting the Rehat Maryada and proper behaviors?

************************

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

is this kind of mass insult really necessary?

Mr. Traveling Stranger... if you find it pointless to discuss "philosphical" (your spelling, not mine) issues here, why do you continue to do it? isn't it kind of silly to do something repeatedly if you know it's pointless anyway? perhaps your time could better be spent in the company of greater people than us?

just a thought from this pointless forum reader.
[/color]

I was expecting this kind of response from you Jasleen Kaur. A student of Spirituality should not get so impatient. There is a right time and place to release knowledge. Only then it shall bear fruit. As a spiritual candidate do not be so impulsive. Knowledge is received as "Parshad" and for that one has to humble oneself.
"Mithat nivi Nanka Gunn Changayaaiaan tatt"

It is the Gardner that decides which flower is ready to be plucked and not the flower itself. So exercise restraint.

There is a saying "Bin maange moti milley, Mangey milley na bheekh". Intimidation will not bear fruit. No bad feeling for what you have said.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Ekmusafir_ajnabi ji

Truely I am not disappointed. This explanation is by Dr Sahib Singh ji whom I regard a lot. You have disagreed with him, you should have posted your "correct" version of explanation to share with SPN fellows. Nothing is wrong with pointing out a point if left by some one.I personally feel he did good job because whatever he has said, only man with high spiritual state of mind can do otherwise for regular people like me it is just a dream. Your interpretation will be highly appreciated. Thanks a lot.

Pk70 ji,

There are certain vaaks in SGGS that are an account of personal experiences. The Shabad you have mentioned is an actual experience. You truly experience what is said in the shabad. Only one who has experienced it can confirm it. I feel it needs no explanation. It speaks for itself.

I could say it is like being in a state of Comma or It is Sunn samadhi or a living death. Having said that it stil remains unexplained. All these will mean nothing if one has not had the experience.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

 

[pk70]

Pk70 ji,

There are certain vaaks in SGGS that are an account of personal experiences. The Shabad you have mentioned is an actual experience. You truly experience what is said in the shabad. Only one who has experienced it can confirm it. I feel it needs no explanation. It speaks for itself.

I could say it is like being in a state of Comma or It is Sunn samadhi or a living death. Having said that it stil remains unexplained. All these will mean nothing if one has not had the experience.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

ekmusafir_ajnabi jio

Thanks, I got the point. Actually you have explained the way I wished.
It clears the guess and the mist which is created by some interpreters. I am glad you did care to point this fact out for us. Thanks again.

 

[Archived_Member1]

<<<<<<<< deleted >>>>>>>>>>>

 

[pk70]

Pk70 Ji,



It was my ego that was talking, sorry I let it loose. Ekmusafir has more common sense than me because he stopped talking before me. I thought I had won the debate, but actually lost to my ego. It takes a person like you to show me the mirror and masks that I wear which hides my realself.

Thank you, paaji, thank you.

namjap ji

It was not your ego. The ego displays a different behaviour like ridicule others when one finds others are wrong. Actually your interest to go deep down to the message Guru ji conveys, is praise worthy. Ek musafie-ajnabi ji has just pointed out about the very personal experience of Guru jio . In that context, the interpreters some time just miss it. It is very true. All the same Dr. Sahib Singh ji has done excellent
job. I am pleased to know that you have very sincere desire to follow Guru ji. My personal best wishes to you !!!!!!!!

 

[pk70]

Real prayer needs no words, no gesture, no thoughts. A real prayer only comes from the Lord.​

In true prayer there is no worshipper and worship; there is only the worshipped. ​

A true prayer needs no reward; it is a reward in itself.​

Baba Narinder ​

Sikh 80 ji
Your post contians a lot; however, baba Narinder (who is he, I dont know)says, is very practical for a true seeker. While praying even if we start with our Guru Sahiban by meditating on them; it ends right there where His presence is felt. If that is felt powerfully, nothing is left but HIM. How many can feel that way, I dont know. I strongly feel that while doing prayer no materialistic things ever should be begged. Prayer is another chance to be with Him, Satguru ji says
" tera ek naam tare sansaar
mai eha aas eho aadhar Sri (24)
( your Naam alone brings liberation to the whole world. In that alone lies my hope and that alone is my sole prop(support).)
While living in this world, we should always bear in our mind as per Guru Waak
jis da ditta khavna, tis kahye sabaas Asa 474
(say Hail to HIM who gives us all that we eat)
Only a chance to have Him in prayer should never be missed or distracted with a list of demands( which drag us from where we desire to get out)
Good job Sikh 80

 

[Archived_Member1]

I was expecting this kind of response from you Jasleen Kaur. A student of Spirituality should not get so impatient. There is a right time and place to release knowledge. Only then it shall bear fruit. As a spiritual candidate do not be so impulsive. Knowledge is received as "Parshad" and for that one has to humble oneself.
"Mithat nivi Nanka Gunn Changayaaiaan tatt"

It is the Gardner that decides which flower is ready to be plucked and not the flower itself. So exercise restraint.

There is a saying "Bin maange moti milley, Mangey milley na bheekh". Intimidation will not bear fruit. No bad feeling for what you have said.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

intimidation was not meant, stated, or implied.

thank you for instructing me.

i would ask humbly that you please refrain from insulting the entire community, it makes everyone feel bad, it's not very helpful, nor is it fitting for someone of your stature.

MODS, please allow me to ask this small favor without having to delete it again. i mean no harm. i have rephrased my words to show this.

 

[spnadmin]

Amazing.

 

[jahan_bakshi]

well sikh80...

dont u think u are getting too personal over the issuse .. its a forum where 'we' are free to express ourselves .. 'we' are free to think and make ppl think as well in a differnt manner i mean its a forum where 'we' all can grow:roll:

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

But one is jumping to conclusions when SPN members are also described this way. And it is unfair. The termite part is not necessary.
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No one is being singled out for name-calling here. I am addressing a challenge to the legitimacy of Gurbani itself. *******************************

Quote:
But when these threads travel down the name-calling path, there is no way to get things back to a discussion. Thanks for returning to the topic so we can vet our points of view.
[/quote*****************************************
But one is jumping to conclusions when SPN members are also described this way. And it is unfair.

Y*********************************

Quote:
SPN asks usto debate the issue, not the person. That is our policy.

Indeed. Kindly show what person was being debated and how my post derailed the issue and degenerated into the name-calling and person bashing you allege. Thank you. And if you cannot on the basis of my own words, I kindly ask you to stop alleging what I did not say.

*************************************

I find it amusing that aad0002 has deleted the hell out of my latest post for allegedly finding objectionable "debate the issue not the person" statements, when I am asking him directly as moderator (he is the only person) what he is finding objectionable. To ask him directly is not allowed, so he is deleting because it is asking a person. Yet he fails to substantiate what is the objection when I am asking what is the objection. In addition, I reposted the initial post in it's entirety which he objected to...and not once did he make any deletion. There is no objection. Those who undermine the authority of Sikh belief and the supportive Gurbani against the express wishes of Akal Takht Sahib Ji act as termites to erode the foundation of Gursikhi. And there is no name-calling, no attack, no personal debate in these words. Stop deliberately misconstruing my words. At least have the courtesy to ban me, and stop deleting my posts and saying they say what is not there in the words so all can see the kind of forum you have.

It is clear the degree of prejudice and blacklisting on this forum by the continuous deletions of my posts and not answering what is the objection with proof in the post itself, but attacking the post and saying it says what is not there. There is NO name-calling at all. And if I can't ask the moderator specifically who is deleting and accusing and finding huge objection with my posts, I must conclude that I am essentially blacklisted as a forum participant.

Thanks. I assumed as much would happen, as it has happened the last time I posted here.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

I find it a point of honor to be blacklisted off a forum which tolerates and promotes doing nindya of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji bani and Rehitnamay against the express wishes of Akal Takht Sahib Ji. The harm is yours to allow only the viewpoints which undermine the legitimacy of Gurbani. That is not freedom of expression. Obviously I am not accorded the same freedom.

 

[Admin]

I find it a point of honor to be blacklisted off a forum which tolerates and promotes doing nindya of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji bani and Rehitnamay against the express wishes of Akal Takht Sahib Ji. The harm is yours to allow only the viewpoints which undermine the legitimacy of Gurbani. That is not freedom of expression. Obviously I am not accorded the same freedom.

Harjas Ji,

Your allegations are quite baseless... Please quote from entire SPN, where SPN administration or Sevadaars have promoted the criticism of Bani? Religion and Philosophy are general but unique for each person's understanding and progress. If you disagree, simply accept the difference and ask for information you may not know. Un-necessary bragging, trash talk, childish arguements only take us away from the topic in hand. Please avoid them at any cost.

Who and how SPN has blacklisted you we fail to understand, its a false allegation? You are able to post comments in all the forums. We have more important things to do than singling you out from 6,000 odd members. Calling fellow members termites or name calling represents a fallacy in your mindset, and goes just like any other angry outburst, which SPN does and will discourage at all costs.

We have checked up and find that only those comments have been erased from your posts which are derogatory to the fellow members. We fully support our Forum Leaders in such actions of cleaning up the network.

Please stick to SPN posting rule "Debate the issue and not the person" and we assure you that no one will ever bother fiddling with your posts.

Best Regards

SPN Administration.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Harjap Ji,

Your allegations are quite baseless... Please quote from entire SPN, where SPN administration or Sevadaars have promoted the criticism of Bani? Religion and Philosophy are general but unique for each person's understanding and progress. If you disagree, simply accept the difference and ask for information you may not know. Un-necessary bragging, trash talk, childish arguements only take us away from the topic in hand. Please avoid them at any cost.

Who and how SPN has blacklisted you we fail to understand, its a false allegation? You are able to post comments in all the forums. We have more important things to do than singling you out from 6,000 odd members. Calling fellow members termites or name calling represents a fallacy in your mindset, and goes just like any other angry outburst, which SPN does and will discourage at all costs.

We have checked up and find that only those comments have been erased from your posts which are derogatory to the fellow members. We fully support our Forum Leaders in such actions of cleaning up the network.

Please stick to SPN posting rule "Debate the issue and not the person" and we assure you that no one will ever bother fiddling with your posts.

Best Regards

SPN Administration.

Aman ji, i know that being a moderator is a demanding task. however, i too find it unusual that Harjas's posts are so frequently edited, while other members are allowed to insult the entire forum, as well as individual members, and not a word is said. when that practice is questioned, the questioner is edited, not the one who broke the rule in the first place.

i can see why Harjas feels persecuted. the rules seem to apply to some, but not to others.

 

[spnadmin]

Jasleen ji

I speak here for myself. Do not hesitate to call me on any inequity I may commit. I have edited posts even of individuals with whom I am in sympathy. But may have missed some things along the way.

Feel free to do it here or by private message.

You are right -- rules should be applied even-handedly.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Harjap Ji,

Your allegations are quite baseless... Please quote from entire SPN, where SPN administration or Sevadaars have promoted the criticism of Bani? Religion and Philosophy are general but unique for each person's understanding and progress. If you disagree, simply accept the difference and ask for information you may not know. Un-necessary bragging, trash talk, childish arguements only take us away from the topic in hand. Please avoid them at any cost.

Who and how SPN has blacklisted you we fail to understand, its a false allegation? You are able to post comments in all the forums. We have more important things to do than singling you out from 6,000 odd members. Calling fellow members termites or name calling represents a fallacy in your mindset, and goes just like any other angry outburst, which SPN does and will discourage at all costs.

We have checked up and find that only those comments have been erased from your posts which are derogatory to the fellow members. We fully support our Forum Leaders in such actions of cleaning up the network.

Please stick to SPN posting rule "Debate the issue and not the person" and we assure you that no one will ever bother fiddling with your posts.

Best Regards

SPN Administration.

First you are calling me Harjap. that is not my name. Now, if it was only a name misunderstanding, it would be one thing, but your post goes on to accuse me of having allegations which are baseless. So you are denying that last year when I had run in with your moderator S**** and discussions with K**** over deletions, removal of posts and in fact for quite a long time, the inability to post on this forum, that all my allegations are baseless and this did not occur? Yet there are even old posts from this time still on your forums where I have discussed deletions, inability to post, missing posts, and received PMs from certain moderators discussing precisely these issues.

Anyone can see people like Ekmusafir can come to this forum, and on this thread, insult every member directly and not be told anything. Yet, in context of discussion corruptions of Gurbani, I said such people who undermine the foundations of Sikh faith by invalidating supportive Gurbani such as Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, rehitnamay act as termites. Now the forum administrator joins the forum moderator to persist in accusing that I am singling out some (imaginary) person for name-calling as a termite. When it is quite clear that I am refering to erosion of the foundations of Sikh belief which is an activity not a person, and thus not name-calling any forum member in particular.

"Calling fellow members termites or name calling represents a fallacy in your mindset, and goes just like any other angry outburst, which SPN does and will discourage at all costs."

We have checked up and find that only those comments have been erased from your posts which are derogatory to the fellow members. We fully support our Forum Leaders in such actions of cleaning up the network.

Please stick to SPN posting rule "Debate the issue and not the person" and we assure you that no one will ever bother fiddling with your posts.

Un-necessary bragging, trash talk, childish arguements only take us away from the topic in hand. Please avoid them at any cost.

You are referencing deleted portions of my posts which no one can read, and accusing that what was erased (and conveniently no one can see) were "derogatory" to other members and "unnecessary bragging, trash talk, childish arguments which take away from the topic at hand."

Talk about personal attacks and nindya! And all this from the site administrator! Well, I guess that leaves no doubt about what can be expected with regards to pretended "fairness" on this forum. Well, anyone can erase my words and say they said whatever they want. But obviously since the words are erased no one can have a chance to know.

I accuse you of nindya against me publically, and also of discriminating against the content of my posts because you people did not like the OPINIONS expressed. And I also accuse that you have tolerated an opposing viewpoint, even ones which were stated in way as to actually insult forum members as you have just insulted me. They are still on the forum. Anyone can read them. they have never received deletions, corrections, moderation or accusations of any kind...even to this day.

04-05-2007, 04:06 PM
Re: What's going on? - Just pm both members Email/Recommend this Topic to your Friends
Dear Bhenji, I humbly apologies again to you. I have just pm both S**** (team leader) and sa*****.

I hope this will resolve the issue. I did feel that you were unfairly treated and hence my last few replies in favour of yourself.

I am going to see if I can "unnapprove" a few last post.

Sincere apologies again,

****

"I am going to remove your name from the "reminder post" now. If you need to discuss any other issue's please let me know."

"To tell you the truth, as this site is run by ADMIN i.e. Aman ji and belongs to him, there is very little I or other Team leaders can do. The decision is really up to him I am afraid.

I can post your pm in the "team leader section" if you want so that some action can be taken by Aman ji if any. I personally cant gurantee the outcome as this site doesnt belong to me. BTW, the team leader sections is not visible to members."

Why did these kind of posts never receive deletions, moderation, correction or anything?
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/15306-gurmat-who-is-the-deciding-authority.html

Lovely_Silky writes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa

If you are looking for Gurmat interpretation solely in the Shabadguru Ji, you will find much contention because all of Gursikhi Gurmat is not written in Shabadguru Ji.


What is this madam khalsa ji?

Posing to be a khalsa and not know that all Gurmat is IN GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI. What are you preaching? How do you(being a Sikh) even dare to think of saying this? It shows you dont have any respect for Guru Ji in your heart, madam.

GURU IS GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI-

SABH SIKHAN KO HUKAM HAI GURU MANEO GRANTH
GURU GRANTH JI MANEO PARGAT GURA KI DEH
JO PRABH KO MILBO CHAHE KHOJ SHABAD MAIN LEH

How can gurmat be more valid outside Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Yes we can always use rehat namas from valid Gursikhs and then see that Guru Ji(Guru Granth Sahib Ji) supports it in full, i mean if it is according to gurmat.

GURMAT COMES FROM THE GURU. GURU IS ALWAYS THE FIRST AND THE FOREMOST- THE LEADING AUTHORITY



Quote:
Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa
Some things are gupt like proper way of reciting Naam Gurmantar.

If a Gursikh namimg herself KHALSA says this it shows how STUPID AND ANTI-GURMAT AND ANTI-SIKH this person can be. Haathi Ke daant khaane ke aor, Dikhane ke aor. MUH ME RAM RAM BAGAL MAIN CHHURI.

ANY BODY WHO READS GURBANI KNOWS THAT 'HOW TO DO NAAM SIMRAN' IS MENTIONED MANY TIMES IN GURU GRANTH JI. HARJAS, YOUR STATEMENT IS PURELY INVALIDATING GURU JI, IT IS A SHAME.

hps ji why are you even looking for translations, why dont you learn Gurmukhi and find out the truth for yourself, if there are so many doubts in your mind. GURU IS GREAT- ANSWERS EVERY QUESTION

SAAS SAAS SIMRO GOBIND
NAAM JAPO JI AISE AISE
AMRIT BANI HAR HAR TERI
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/15306-gurmat-who-is-the-deciding-authority.html

You see, I have posted an example of personal attack against me still on this forum, to prove only my posts are filled with deletions, accusations and attacks against me personally. Of, course, per Aman Ji, perhaps I am only "falsely alleging." This forum has allowed people to call me stupid, a false Sikh, posing to be a khalsa, allege that I invalidate Shabadguru Ji Maharaaj... because I said the supporting bania in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji and vaaran and rehitnamay which Akal Takht has recognized is legitimate bani...is legitimate and also part of Gurmat Gursikhi such as nitenam, panj kakkars, proper way of reciting Vaheguru Gurmantra Saas Giras Simran, practice of Sarbloh bibek, etc. There is valid supportive bani which has always been part of Gurmat Gursikhi. Otherwise you would have to invalidate Amrit Sinchaar and the Khalsa.

Curious...that debate was much like the discussions here on this thread. This is what I refer to as "blacklisting" in order to derail my opinions and viewpoints and discriminate in my posting here." Thank you for washing my karams.