Hinduism Idol Worship?

[Navdeep88]

Kamala Ji,

sometimes it helps to shush and think about things, take other people's opinions into consideration, think about what they are saying... then make you decision about what agrees with your experience, knowledge and then speak, with conviction.... Rather than talking about how your hindu/sikh etc...

 

[gurmit kaur mit]

very nice and informative post..thanks for sharing...

 

[sanj007]

In Hindu scriptures no idol worship:
http://agniveer.com/2708/vedic-god/

The Supreme One who represents selflessness, controls the entire universe, is present everywhere and is the Devata of all Devatas, alone is source of bliss. Those who do not understand Him remain drenched in sorrow and those who realize Him achieve unconditional happiness. (Rigveda 1.164.39)

Yajurveda 40.1:
This entire world is embedded within and managed by the One and Only One Ishwar. Never dare do any injustice or desire riches through unjust means. Instead follow the righteous path and enjoy His bliss. After all He alone is source of all bliss!
Rigveda 10.48.1: Ishwar alone is omnipresent and manager of entire universe. He alone provides victory and eternal cause of world. All souls should look up only to Him in same manner as children look up to their Father. He alone provides for our sustenance and bliss.

 

[Kamala]

No problem and thanks for posting!!

 

[Kamala]

Well Gyani ji, that is why Bhagat ravidas was even popular, because he got Ganga devi out of the water

 

[Seeker9]

Quick comment as I am between exams...

Dear Kamala Ji

I am intrigued by your posts. What is it you are seeking to achieve?

From what I have gathered to date, and please correct me if I am wrong, you appear to be saying in no particular order:

1) The multiple deities depicted in Hinduism are all real
2) Ritual & idolatory in Hinduism is acceptable

Then you try and give these views added credibilty, on a Sikh forum, by suggesting both of the above are endorsed by SGGS

By starting this thread, you are suggesting needless rituals are present in Sikhism, which would be an interesting debate in its own right and I believe there have been similar threads on SPN already...you should try the comprehensive search facility!

But may I suggest this trying to shoe horn in Hinduism on Sikhism is unnecessary, unwelcome and ill conceived

Apologies if I have offended you are anyone else by expressing this opinion

 

[Ambarsaria]

Seeker 9 ji these are simple agent provocateurs and us tolerant and polite Sikhs try to manage interactions with these in a polite yet firm manner. The object of such endeavors is very simple and basically make Sikhism look as an original and continuing part of Hinduism.

These seem to basically miss the first paragraph in Sikh Reht Maryada,

is`K dI qwrI&
(Description of a SIkh)
​

jo iesqrI jW purS iek Akwl purK, ds gurU swihbwn (sRI gurU nwnk dyv jI qoN lY ky sRI gurU goibMd isMG swihb qk), sRI gurU gRMQ swihb Aqy ds gurU swihbwn dI bwxI qy is`iKAw Aqy dsmyS jI dy AMimRq au`qy inScw r`Kdw hY Aqy iksy hor Drm nUM nhIN mMNndw (Does not belive in any other religion) , auh is`K hY[

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Amarpal]

Kamala Ji

Idol Worship? The answer to it is yes and no at the same time. What we have in Gurudwaras is referred to as Siri Guru Granth Sahib; note the word 'Granth' it is a physical entity, it has Akaar (form). Now think of what it contains? It has knowledge that puts you on the path of spirituality leading to divinity and Moksha (liberation) and you know knowledge is Nirakaar (formless).

The answer to you question is in the though you have when you bow in front of Siri Guru Granth Sahib. If you bow to the knowledge contained in Siri Guru Granth Sahib, which is formless, it is not idol worship. It is only worship.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

 

[BhagatSingh]

Amarpal ji,

The answer to you question is in the though you have when you bow in front of Siri Guru Granth Sahib. If you bow to the knowledge contained in Siri Guru Granth Sahib, which is formless, it is not idol worship. It is only worship.

That makes sense. When a Hindu bows down to the knowledge (e.g. Bhagwad Gita) brought down by the Avatars (e.g. Krishna) when he bows down to a "physical entity, it has Akaar (form)" of the Avatar (e.g. Krishna), it is not idol worship. Since he is bowing down the formless knowledge, it is only worship.

It makes sense but it leaves us with a very important question: What is idol worship then? When you only bow down to a "physical entity, it has Akaar (form)" without it representing knowledge? I don't know anyone who does such a thing. In the East, they only bow down to that which represents knowledge. E.g. one's elders represent knowledge hence they bow to their elders.

So what is idol worship? I think some of us as still confused on the issue. What are your thoughts?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Bhagat Singh Veer ji and others, you think the following would be reasonable,

Idol Worship: Worshipping form versus content. Worshipping anything non-written, performed or inscribed with specific messages is Idol Worship.

Example(s):

1. Statues of Gods, deities, etc.
2. Carvings of Gods, deities, etc.
3. Pictures or paintings of Gods, deities, etc.
4. Worshipping people or animals or non-life forms.
5. Pakhandi babey, and so on
(http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/quest...hat-type-sucham-guru-nanak-ji.html#post159339)
6. Movie or singing stars without regard to what they say or do , puppy love, etc.
​

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Amabarsria ji,
I am not satisfied by your definition. My previous post still holds.

In addition I pose the following problem to you:
Why are you giving written words a special treatment? Written words actually come out of pictures. They arose over time as pictures were simplified for easier marking/mark-making. As the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words.

Veerji, do you worship idols? Can we have some members who actually worship idols tell us what it is they are doing?
The wearer knows the shoe.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Amabarsria ji,
I am not satisfied by your definition. My previous post still holds.

In addition I pose the following problem to you:
Why are you giving written words a special treatment? Written words actually come out of pictures. They arose over time as pictures were simplified for easier marking/mark-making. As the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words.

Veerji, do you worship idols? Can we have some members who actually worship idols tell us what it is they are doing?
The wearer knows the shoe.

Idol Worship: Worshipping form versus content in thought. Worshipping anything non-written, performed or inscribed with specific messages is Idol Worship.

Does not inscribed relate to content pictorial or otherwise! I added "with thought" to my definition.

By the way, the act of bowing by itself is not necessary or sufficient or required condition to be classified as worship.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Ok another problem arises with your definition:
Content in thoughts is form. These are images, sounds and words hence forms, albeit in the mind. Any content is form. Worshipping content in thoughts would actually be worship of forms thus idol worship by your definition.

How to worship the formless then?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ok another problem arises with your definition:
Content in thoughts is form. These are images, sounds and words hence forms, albeit in the mind. Any content is form. Worshipping content in thoughts would actually be worship of forms thus idol worship by your definition.

How to worship the formless then?

Bhagat Sing veer if that is the case, can "worship" be even defined or dfferentiated in kind of yes or no? Can you suggest a definition as I don't which is your definition? If it is a post just flag it and I will read it.

By the way I do not agree that thoughts are necessarily related to realizable form and unrealizable form is hardly a form!

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Amarpal]

BhagatSingh Ji,

When we bow to any knowledge (formless) it is reverence at its extreme, which is worship. Idol worship is where a physical entity, as such, is the object of such reverence.

With Love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh


http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/members/bhagatsingh.html

 

[Ambarsaria]

BhagatSingh Ji,

When we bow to any knowledge (formless) it is reverence at its extreme, which is worship. Idol worship is where a physical entity, as such, is the object of such reverence.

With Love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

Three pictures below. Do we need to talk to the people before we call it Idol worship or we can state so by looking.

1. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

2. Dhadrianwala

3. Cow Worship

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Amarpal]

Ambarsaria Ji,

The first two photographs that are part of your post depicts the relatively current phenomenon. As i know, it was not the practice at the time of Guru Sahib.

The current practice has relevance in today's sociological domain may not be in spiritual domain, it is a requirement of the present time. Knowing this, I see through it; ignore these practices and concentrate on the teachings of Siri Guru Granth Sahib.

Please also remember that only through 'Akaar' we can go to the concept of Nirakaar. Going directly to Nirakkar is near impossible task. These practices are needed for those of our brothers and sisters who are seeking to evolve and presently are at a stage where they have not realised the concept of Nirakaar, they only know it as a word.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

HMM, I confess to being unsure of idol worship existing, to me idol worship is the worship of an idol, period, however even in worshipping a cow, a Hindu could say he/she was remembering Krishna through the cow, or Guruji through Dhadrianwale, if there is something behind the idol, then that is not idol worship,

However, we must remember Waheguru has no form, so in Sikhi idol worship is impossible, the Gurus were not Gods, so they are not worshipped, and even then, my father tends to think of Guru Nanakji when praying, but his prayer is focused on Waheguru through Guru Nankji.

I fed my ferrets this morning, I watered them and had a little play with them, they are creation, I am Creation, they made me laugh and smile, and I enjoyed seeing them play and eat and drink. I felt a sense of connection with Creator, and with essence in me and the ferrets, it made me happy, how can I judge the photo of the man with the cow, when I was doing possibly the same thing, I mean, he is not literally worshipping the cow, is he?

 

[Seeker9]

When we bow to any knowledge (formless) it is reverence at its extreme, which is worship. Idol worship is where a physical entity, as such, is the object of such reverence.

Dear Amarpal Ji

Succinct and to the point. Very well said

I guess I am / (We are?) hypothesising to some extent as I do not engage in these sort of rituals

There is little doubt that there is immense wisdom in the Vedas if you look for it. But when you see an act of worship, I wonder how much is to do with acknowledging timeless knowledge/Brahman as Bhagat Singh Ji suggested and how much is to do with one's own self-interest e.g if they are praying for good fortune or when they make an offering to the idol/murti in the hope of gaining some divine blessing that will go in their favour

Once we understand the basis of the act, it should be easier to categorise it as either genuine selfless worship or conceited selfish ritualistic idol worship

Bhagat Singh Ji - I commend you for seeing the best in this and I daresay there are individuals who are genuine in their worship but I think it is fair to say that there a lot of people who are seeking personal gain via what they understand to be some sort of supernatural transaction with the divine

If you believe God is everywhere, idols and murtis are unnecessary as there are far greater wonders to behold in the Creation than a depiction of a blue skinned multi-limbed deity

 

[Seeker9]

Dear Ambarsaria Ji

Great picture - no getting away from cow worship!!!

Here's something from wikipedia:

The cow in Hindu society is traditionally identified as a caretaker and a maternal figure and Hindu society honours the cow as a symbol of unselfish giving"

Dear Harry Ji

Remembrance of Krishna through the cow is a lovely way to put it but I also think there is scope for more selfish interests at play along the lines of my previous post