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Hinduism Hinduism: Science Or Religion

Tejwant Singh

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Satyaban ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am offended by this thread.

You have quoted half of my post in red:

"Any religion that subscribes to hell and heaven as Hinduism and many religions do, can not have anything to do with science because the concept itself shows that they are based on fear, anger, disdain,hatred and of course punishment."

Would you be kind enough to elaborate your objection regarding my above statement?

What is your objection and what is offensive about it?

Secondly, would you also elaborate on the second part of my post about the caste system in Hinduism?


Thanks & Regards

Tejwant singh
 
Aug 27, 2005
328
223
75
Baltimore Md USA
Satyaban ji

I am myself perplexed by this thread. Take a look at the original post. It appears to be headed in two directions at once with one direction that is very different from the thread title. Perhaps with a little focused analysis it can be remedied.

The question of science or religion is actually a good subject for Interfaith dialogs because some scholars of the Rigveda and the Bhagatagita do argue that the texts are discourses on natural laws. That centuries later the doctrinal content of religion was added.

Whether Hinduism is a religion or a broad designation for several traditions that hold the Vedas to be sacred texts is another valid topic.

Let's see what can be done to address your feelings of being offended.

NK ji

Some very good ideas there, I don't know if my last post helps or not.

"Whether Hinduism is a religion or a broad designation for several traditions that hold the Vedas to be sacred texts"

That is a very good description! We have schools of thought, sects and sub sects. There are several things I could list that we have in common but I'll list 2 or 3:

1.Belief in ONE all pervasive Supreme being who is both immanent and transcendent, both Creator and Unmanifest Reality.

2.Karma

3.All life is sacred, to be loved and revered and ahimsa "noninjury" should be practiced.

4.No religion teaches the only way to salvation and all deserve tolerance and understanding.

Peace
Satyaban
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Some of the differences between Kashmiri Shaivites and devotees of Krishna are clear cut. I or we do not believe there are or ever will be incarnations of God. I believe they and devotees of Vishnu do not have a more personal relationship with God as we do with Lord Shiva. When we reach moksha we believe the atman is reabsorbed into Shiva not with God but a part of.


Ang 470

ਮਃ
मः १ ॥
Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl:

ਸਾਮ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਤੰਬਰੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਚ ਮਹਿ ਆਛੈ ਸਾਚਿ ਰਹੇ
साम कहै सेत्मबरु सुआमी सच महि आछै साचि रहे ॥
Sām kahai seṯambar su▫āmī sacẖ mėh ācẖẖai sācẖ rahe.
The Sama Veda says that the Lord Master is robed in white; in the Age of Truth, everyone desired Truth, abided in Truth,

ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ
सभु को सचि समावै ॥
Sabẖ ko sacẖ samāvai.
and was merged in the Truth.

ਰਿਗੁ ਕਹੈ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ
रिगु कहै रहिआ भरपूरि ॥
Rig kahai rahi▫ā bẖarpūr.
The Rig Veda says that God is permeating and pervading everywhere;

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਵਾ ਮਹਿ ਸੂਰੁ
राम नामु देवा महि सूरु ॥
Rām nām ḏevā mėh sūr.
among the deities, the Lord's Name is the most exalted.

ਨਾਇ ਲਇਐ ਪਰਾਛਤ ਜਾਹਿ
नाइ लइऐ पराछत जाहि ॥
Nā▫e la▫i▫ai parācẖẖaṯ jāhi.
Chanting the Name, sins depart;

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਉ ਮੋਖੰਤਰੁ ਪਾਹਿ
नानक तउ मोखंतरु पाहि ॥
Nānak ṯa▫o mokẖanṯar pāhi.
O Nanak, then, one obtains salvation.

ਜੁਜ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਰਿ ਛਲੀ ਚੰਦ੍ਰਾਵਲਿ ਕਾਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨੁ ਜਾਦਮੁ ਭਇਆ
जुज महि जोरि छली चंद्रावलि कान्ह क्रिसनु जादमु भइआ ॥
Juj mėh jor cẖẖalī cẖanḏrāval kānĥ krisan jāḏam bẖa▫i▫ā.
In the Jujar Veda, Kaan Krishna of the Yaadva tribe seduced Chandraavali by force.

ਪਾਰਜਾਤੁ ਗੋਪੀ ਲੈ ਆਇਆ ਬਿੰਦ੍ਰਾਬਨ ਮਹਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਕੀਆ
पारजातु गोपी लै आइआ बिंद्राबन महि रंगु कीआ ॥
Pārjāṯ gopī lai ā▫i▫ā binḏrāban mėh rang kī▫ā.
He brought the Elysian Tree for his milk-maid, and revelled in Brindaaban.

ਕਲਿ ਮਹਿ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਹੂਆ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਅਲਹੁ ਭਇਆ
कलि महि बेदु अथरबणु हूआ नाउ खुदाई अलहु भइआ ॥
Kal mėh beḏ atharbaṇ hū▫ā nā▫o kẖuḏā▫ī alhu bẖa▫i▫ā.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.

ਨੀਲ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਲੇ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰੇ ਤੁਰਕ ਪਠਾਣੀ ਅਮਲੁ ਕੀਆ
नील बसत्र ले कपड़े पहिरे तुरक पठाणी अमलु कीआ ॥
Nīl basṯar le kapṛe pahire ṯurak paṯẖāṇī amal kī▫ā.
Men began to wear blue robes and garments; Turks and Pat'haans assumed power.

ਚਾਰੇ ਵੇਦ ਹੋਏ ਸਚਿਆਰ
चारे वेद होए सचिआर ॥
Cẖāre veḏ ho▫e sacẖiār.
The four Vedas each claim to be true.

ਪੜਹਿ ਗੁਣਹਿ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਚਾਰ ਵੀਚਾਰ
पड़हि गुणहि तिन्ह चार वीचार ॥
Paṛėh guṇėh ṯinĥ cẖār vīcẖār.
Reading and studying them, four doctrines are found.

ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਨੀਚੁ ਸਦਾਏ
भाउ भगति करि नीचु सदाए ॥
Bẖā▫o bẖagaṯ kar nīcẖ saḏā▫e.
With loving devotional worship, abiding in humility,

ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੋਖੰਤਰੁ ਪਾਏ ॥੨॥
तउ नानक मोखंतरु पाए ॥२॥
Ŧa▫o Nānak mokẖanṯar pā▫e. ||2||
O Nanak, salvation is attained. ||2||
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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I consider the Gita not to be scripture but a very important "how to" book in which Krishna teaches about yogas and the importance of doing one's duty to uphold dharma
There is one reference about Bhagavad Gita in the scriptures of SGGS. But there are countless references about Vedas, Puranas, Shastras and Simiritees. Here's one:-

Ang 254

ਸਲੋਕੁ
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:

ਘੋਖੇ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭ ਆਨ ਕਥਤਉ ਕੋਇ
घोखे सासत्र बेद सभ आन न कथतउ कोइ ॥
Gẖokẖe sāsṯar beḏ sabẖ ān na kẖathaṯa▫o ko▫e.
I have searched all the Shaastras and the Vedas, and they say nothing except this:

ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦੀ ਹੁਣਿ ਹੋਵਤ ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥
आदि जुगादी हुणि होवत नानक एकै सोइ ॥१॥
Āḏ jugāḏī huṇ hovaṯ Nānak ekai so▫e. ||1||
In the beginning, throughout the ages, now and forevermore, O Nanak, the One Lord alone exists. ||1||


This is the Gita reference on Ang 874:

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗਹੁ ਮੀਤਾ
गुरमति राम नाम गहु मीता ॥
Gurmaṯ rām nām gahu mīṯā.
Follow the Guru's Teachings, and hold tight to the Lord's Name, O friend.

ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਮਾ ਇਉ ਕਹੈ ਗੀਤਾ ॥੫॥੨॥੬॥
प्रणवै नामा इउ कहै गीता ॥५॥२॥६॥
Paraṇvai nāmā i▫o kahai gīṯā. ||5||2||6||
Thus prays Naam Dayv, and so says the Gita as well. ||5||2||6||
 

seeker3k

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May 24, 2008
316
241
canada
In my post I try to show the similarity in Hinduism and science. People who can not think out side the box they can not see it. I have discussed with few scientist many agree with me. They understand and know how religions are born. People just want to believe in God that can solve their problems that they have created them self.
People here have hijacked it to very deferent side. Every one said some thing about Hinduism but nothing about what I said about the atom.

There are over 10,000 member of this forum but only few are arguing here. Maybe it is their forum. Forum as I know is for every one who has opinion. I only see the argument from the guardian of Sikhism.
seeker
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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In my post I try to show the similarity in Hinduism and science. People who can not think out side the box they can not see it. I have discussed with few scientist many agree with me. They understand and know how religions are born. People just want to believe in God that can solve their problems that they have created them self.
People here have hijacked it to very deferent side. Every one said some thing about Hinduism but nothing about what I said about the atom.

There are over 10,000 member of this forum but only few are arguing here. Maybe it is their forum. Forum as I know is for every one who has opinion. I only see the argument from the guardian of Sikhism.
seeker

seeker3k ji

Well it is normal for posters to subscribe to threads that interest them, post there and ignore other threads. That may explain why a few people are posting.

The science of the ancient Hindu texts has been discussed up to a point. It is true that no one has discussed the part about the atom.

And it is not true that only "guardians of Sikhism" are the ones putting arguments forward.

So please redirect the discussion if you believe it has been hijacked. :)
 

seeker3k

SPNer
May 24, 2008
316
241
canada
Karam,what is it

Every one is talking about “karma” Does any one really know what karma is? I doubt it.
We are told by the pundits and bhaiji that we are here due to the karma of past life. The gain and loss in our life is due to the past karma. Every thing happens to us what we eat and what we drink and breaths we take are preset for us by God. There is nothing happen with out the hukam of God. So we have choice in our destiny. What work we do is also written before we were born. If we are thiefs it is also written. So if I steal some thing from some one’s home then am I settling the past karma or am I creating for the next life? If I was destine to steal then how could I be creating karma for the next life.
If as we are told our soul was with God and we will merge with God after we die. When we are with God there is no karam committed. If that is true then why our soul was pushed out from God? By what karam?

Karam was the name used long ago by the yogis. But the Brahmans use it to control the people by fear. Now it is being called genes DNA the building blocks of life. If one look at it with open mind he/she can see it the similarity in both. I can not explain it here but one can watch youtube and learn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtmbcfb_rdc&feature=related[/FON"]400 Bad Request
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwfO6SzGaEg&NR=1[/FON"]400 Bad Request
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg&feature=related[/FON"]400 Bad Request
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0&feature=fvw[/FON"]400 Bad Request
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nj587d5ies&feature=related[/FON"]400 Bad Request

What has religion gave us, HATE & FEAR. Every religion telling us to believe in some thing that they don’t even know. And we are following the blind people. We are being told to fight over the name of God. Only name is true what they say. Rose is ROSE in any language. There will be no change in rose if some one call it gulab or any other name.
seeker
 
Aug 27, 2005
328
223
75
Baltimore Md USA
Seeker3k ji

With Wikipedia and youtube we need no other places to seek knowledge. Universities will be closing soon. I learned how to vote watching "The Obama Girl".:rolleyes:

"If as we are told our soul was with God and we will merge with God after we die. When we are with God there is no karam committed. If that is true then why our soul was pushed out from God? By what karam?

Karam was the name used long ago by the yogis. But the Brahmans use it to control the people by fear. Now it is being called genes DNA the building blocks of life. If one look at it with open mind he/she can see it the similarity in both."


I am not going to get into a discussion about karma except to mention a couple things. Karma is a natural law, my belief, like gravity it just is not "good or bad". You have to have a belief in the spiritual, that is what is not seen, like God to start with. I love science like physics but at the end of the day there is a primary cause and I believe it is God. I think when quantum physics has reached its end there will be no other conclusion than that primal cause is God.

Peace
Satyaban
 

AusDesi

SPNer
Jul 18, 2009
347
211
Dharmashtere Australiashtre
Karma is a natural law, my belief, like gravity it just is not "good or bad".

I must disagree with that. My views on Karma are quite similar to seeker ji. I don't believe there is any such thing as Karma.

What goes around comes around is not always true. Many bad people never have anything bad done to them while many good people live a horrible life.

Human mind just connects random things to try and make sense of things. e.g. A bad man loses all - Karma, Bad man gains a lot - hard work. So if its hard work when he gains then it must also be unhard work to lose not a spiritual thing.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
The post with the video Religion is a Failed Science has been deleted as it is off-topic and takes the discussion into a different direction Please post articles etc on atheism versus religion in the newly created section of Interfaith Dialogs created for discussions on Atheism.
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,655
The post with the video Religion is a Failed Science has been deleted as it is off-topic and takes the discussion into a different direction Please post articles etc on atheism versus religion in the newly created section of Interfaith Dialogs created for discussions on Atheism.
Narayanjot Kaur ji, that video has little to do with atheism. It has to do with ancient religions like this one.
You have simply removed the video seeing that the speaker is an atheist.

Failed Science = Something that was seriously considered to be science before but was shown to be wrong later
 
May 24, 2008
546
887
Dear Narayanjot Ji ,
Whatever I learnt from the sources another thing struck me in addition to this beef eating practice of early Brahmins . This is about the sacredness of human hair . There are various sources wherein Human Hair are treated as most sacred & inseparable part of human body . Compared to rituals as they exist in Hinduism today , ceremonies like Mundan may seem to be perplexing , a radical turnabout from earlier belief . How did Brahmins turned to cutting hair as sacred event when earlier Hair were treated as an inseparable part of human body & cutting hair was considered as biggest punishment ? Can any body explain the turn of events ?
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
dalbirk ji

I don't have an answer. However two possible avenues to follow up on. A new book by Wendy Doniger, The Hindu's, looks at the evolution of the Hindu traditions historically. it could be there as there have been several turn-arounds across the centuries.

Wendy Doniger is a Sanskrit scholar who has written several books showing how the spiritual messages of the vedas have changed over time. So she may have something about your question too.

Also if it were possible to fix a general point in time when this happened, then it would make it easier to do some research and turn up an answer.

The book is "The Hindus: An Alternative History" by Wendy Doniger and is available at Amazon.
 

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