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Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet?

TGill

SPNer
Jul 31, 2007
240
2
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

Hi Sathanuman ji

Thanks for such lucid views. It was pleasure reading your post.
I totally agree with what you said and it is really sad to see such stupid discussions happening.

Not sure why people are so hell bent to find truth everywhere else except within themselves. It is funny at the same time to see how people find stupid arguments to discuss even the inexaplainable !
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and TGill Jee!

Quote "Not sure why people are so hell bent to find truth everywhere else except within themselves."
Thanks for coming out from within to give this message. Should all now go within and leave the Sikh-philosophy dot net forum? Please guide them.

Quote "It is funny at the same time to see how people find stupid arguments to discuss even the inexaplainable !"
Better put this question to the true Gurus. What have they been discussing with Siddhas, for example?

**************

Ignorance is falling in discussions with ignorant. Therefore, singing truth is better.
One may ask a fanatic the material of the stick he is holding in hands. He may start cursing because people do not know God.

Why Sikhs bother when Muslims do not know Guru Naanak Jee? A true Sikh can visit Mecca and spread God's Wisdom to Muslims and others in the world.


Balbir Singh
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
43
INDIA
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

[Why Sikhs bother when Muslims do not know Guru Naanak Jee? A true Sikh can visit Mecca and spread God's Wisdom to Muslims and others in the world.]

what is the defination of true sikh according to you balbir ji?
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
43
INDIA
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

what is the difference between two human beings?

In this physical world there are plenty of differences between human beings.some are born with every thing like born in wealthy family,good education good personality,good IQ,good upbinging etc while others got nothing.
One of the biggest fact is that our lives not in our control.we don't decide in which home we are going to take birth,what will be our upbringing.so in this physical world we all are
different.
 
Sep 13, 2007
4
0
HINDUSTAN
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

Jinni:


Sikhs do call, Guru Nanak as their Prophet. Which is wrong, becos hazrat Muhammad [SAW]was the last prophet, and all others who claim to be one, are hypocrites and false prophet.

Firstly Hazrat Mohammed said himslef that he was the last Prophet. What is the proof that he was the last prophet apart from this.?


Guru Nanak was no Prophet just reformer, it would be clear by reading the fowlling.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was much more than a Prophet.

The defination of Prophet as per Islam is a 'warner' not a guide..Prophets just warn, or prophesise, they dont guide.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji had the Jot of Waheguru, and hence was one with God. He was NOT warned like the Prophet of doom, nor was God ever angry with him.

He was chosen to guide people on the way of Naam, the religion of God.


So, the first question you need to ask your Sikh friend is: Did Nanak really claim to be a prophet chosen by God to lead people out of darkness into light?

If the answer is “no,” tell him that this proves that prophethood was conferred on him by his zealous followers and it is meaningless to continue to argue that Nanak was a prophet.



Hee hee. I have already answered your question above and I think in the light of the above the remaining questions are invalid.

The Gurus of the sikhs were not mere Prophet, who were subject to judgement, rather they were Masters for the sikhs who had the Jot of God.

If the answer is “yes,” the second question is: Did Nanak approve of the roles of earlier prophets of God, especially the prophet who came just before him, Muhammad (peace be on him)?


Now to address your questions with logic of the likeness you have used ;-)
If he says “yes,” ask him then how one can reconcile the fact that Muhammad was the Last Prophet of God and the claim that Nanak was a prophet after the Last Prophet.

It was rather clever of the Prophet to decalre himslef the last prophet. By that he wanted to make Islam the most popular religion. In fact not only did he say he was the last prophet, suring the latter period of his life he even negated the folowings of the earlier prophets.

For if the followings of the early prophets were also true, then there would be no need for the last prophet - Prophet Mohammed to be on this earth and give his own teachings.

The biggest teaching that muslims claim is of Tawheed or the oneness of God. This is not something unique, is it. The Jews knew about this before the pagans of Arabia knew.

In facte I would suggest that you give up claims to Israel and let them libve in peace as the Jews are th original people to know about Tawheed. They are the original Momins

The third question is whether all the Sikhs believe that their holy book, called the Adi Granth, was revealed to Nanak by God. If they say “yes,” ask them whether there is any statement to that effect in the book itself and whether Nanak said that the Adi Granth had been fully revealed to him by God.

Yes. Guru Granth Sahib has got hymns which clearly convey the message that this is the message of God.

In fact it turns out thatwhile Guru Granth Sahib has no inconsistencies in concept, the Quran is full of big blunders.

Not only does it deviate from the spirtual aspct of life, it also breeds hate and violence among the various people.

The lesser said about the Quaranic inconsistencies, the better..but If you want I would be glad to reproduce for you tracts.....which have been translated by muslim authors themselves. :cool:


If the answer is in the affirmative, your Sikh friend has to show the proof that the above statements are true, from the Adi Granth itself.

Like I said, just say it and they will be reproduced on this very Forum.

This will not be possible for him to do for the following reasons:

1. The Adi Granth is a collection of the writings of many Gurus including Nanak. It was in 1604—Nanak died in 1539—that Arjan Dev, one of the ten Gurus, compiled the hymns of Guru Nanak along with the compositions of both Hindu and Muslim holy men like Jaidev, Surdas, Sheikh Farid and Kabir. The compiled book was enshrined by Arjan in the Golden Temple with the name “Adi Granth.”

Yes. Because unlike narrow minded biased Islamic relgion, Sikhism belives that anyone can achieve God. Those who achieved God, only their compositions are included in Guru Granth Sahib.

The touchstone used to test was the Baani which the Gurus thmselves received from 'Dhur'. The touchstone prooved that the Baani of the Bhagats was Ilaahi Baani indeed.

Please note that Gurbaani is all about God, NOT about some piddly myths - which wont even stand the test of time and histroy.

Gurbani is about truth, NOT about false

Gurbani is about Love, not about hating ur fellow beings

Gurbani is about Naam, and focusses ion worship of One True God, NOT some prophet.

2. A prophet of God is a model for all his followers in all aspects of life. But in the case of Sikhism, we find that it was not Guru Nanak, but the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, who organized the community of Sikhs into a khalsa, “a spiritual brotherhood devoted to purity of thought and action.” He taught his followers to wear long hair (kesh, denoting saintly appearance), underwear (kachha, denoting self-control), an iron bangle (kara, denoting purity in acts), a comb (kangha, denoting cleanliness of mind and body), and a sword (kirpan, denoting fight for a just cause).

You dont even understand the basic principles of sikhism. Suggest that you go and study some books.

The Jot which permeated in Guru Nanak moved from him to the rest of the Gurus. The 'moorat' - physical body was different byt the concepts and the Jot was the same.

The iron was readied by Guru Nanak Dev J, The steel was made and forged into the steel by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. The transformation from a piddly human beings were converted into the complete saint
soldier - the Khalsa.

3. Towards the end of his life, the aged Nanak returned home to Punjab and settled down at Kartharpur with his family. People came from far and near to hear his hymns and preaching. After his death, his Hindu followers thought him to be a Hindu and his Muslim followers thought him to be a Muslim.

Because everyone wants to own an enlightened person. ;-)

Wonder why the Jews did not come forward to claim prophet Mohammed as a *** and the Christian did not come forward to claim him as a Christian even though he had declared that he was a continuation of the line of prophets and the last prophets.

From the foregoing, we understand that Guru Nanak was not a prophet of God, but a religious reformer of his times.


You are indeed a scholar Sir. I salute you ;-)


By the way who many prophets does Islam declare? 12,000 sopmething. Pity that God wanted to send 12,000 prophets in the brief time that civilisation had just started, but therafter he was silence.

What was the big deal about Mohammed. What he had said about Oneness of God was already known to Jews and Christians....

Can you give me the names of at least 100 of these Prophets...please....pretty pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee.......


Akal Sahai

Babbar Sher
Sat Shree Akal..
Brother ur answer is excellent..But believe me thus narrow minded converted muslims has not guts to think logically..

But ur reply was superb...
God Bless u.
 
Aug 18, 2005
163
123
66
Fremont, California
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

The ultimate prophet is God Himself. Humans are only called prophet because their goal is to encourage people to change their views to live truthful. There are different types of prophets. Ro'eh, Nagid, Navi, Tsofeh, and Yode'. Human prophets observe the grace of God communicating with us via His creation. We don't realize it, because we are engrossed in maya or materialist, controlled by our five vices. Mam sar mooey Azraeel garifteh, dil heych na dani." The angle of death has grabbed the hair of my head(meaning my time of death is coming), but I am not aware. Rag Tilang M 1 ghar 1 ang 721. This is Guru Nanak's shabad in Farsi language. People are too much concerned about who is and who is not a prophet. Just listen to the word of God in all of creation testifying of His stable hukam. If you study Guru Granth Sahib, focus is not on the writers, but on God and hukam. Guru names and writers of the hymns are also recorded for historical purposes to prevent plagerism, and it is custome in Punjabi poetry of that time for the composer to include his name in the text. When you realize God, you don't worry about who is or not a prophet, because all eyes should be on God, not on a prophet distraction to pull you away from God. Look, Guru Nanaks' birthday everyone gets so excited about how great he was. If they are so impressed with Guru Nanak, why don't they study his hymns for the deep meanings? Likewise, many Moslems worship Mohamad and read Koran, but rare are those that study the meanings. both Sikhs and Moslems emphasis reading, why not emphasize understanding? Why do Sikhs and Moslems have to pick on each other to try to prove that their faith is superior. Sikhism is not a faith of blindness, but of belief in things unseen by the naked eye. Faith in the power of nature governed by almighty God. To understand reality the way it truly is, not the way our ego misleads us to or the way of ignorance not knowing any better. I do not judge anyone, but ignorance is no excuse for lack of being happy, healthy, and successful.
 

HS Kalsy

SPNer
Nov 11, 2005
4
0
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

Mr Jinni,
It appears from ur lack of knowledge abt Guru Nanak that ur are born false.

HS Kalsy
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

Mr Jinni,
It appears from ur lack of knowledge abt Guru Nanak that ur are born false.

HS Kalsy

I think Jinni's purpose for visiting this forum was to start a bonn fire. I agree with HS Kalsy that he lacks the knowledge.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

If you study Guru Granth Sahib, focus is not on the writers, but on God and hukam. Guru names and writers of the hymns are also recorded for historical purposes to prevent plagerism, and it is custome in Punjabi poetry of that time for the composer to include his name in the text.

The unique thing of SGGS is that the verses are written by the Masters themselves. Can't find this in other scriptures. Thus when we make comparisons for accuracy, you know which scriptures are more dependable.
 

dps.1976

SPNer
May 12, 2007
4
0
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

Sat Shree Akal..
Brother ur answer is excellent..But believe me thus narrow minded converted muslims has not guts to think logically..

But ur reply was superb...
God Bless u.
to put an end to this discussion i would like to say that kuran which muslim claim to be the ultimate book is total false.Kuran says there are seven sky but Great Guru ,Gurunanak said 500 yr back that there are laks and lakhs of planets and sky that was proved right by the scientists 400 yr later.According to kuran eath is the centre of universe.....!!!!!!!! did so called prophet did not know this and if he received commands from GOD he should have corrected himself so that our Muslim brothers shouldnt have to be ashamed of the ignorance of their prophet.So kuran is nothing but a book that should be read as a comic book and deserves same treatment ie forget after reading and do not apply it to your life.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

dps ji

First a concern and a caution -- we want discussions to continue because this is a forum and squelching discussion would be the end of this and all forums.

Second, when you say - So kuran is nothing but a book that should be read as a comic book and deserves same treatment ie forget after reading and do not apply it to your life. SPN asks there be no sect bashing or ridicule of other religions. But as for your larger point -- Is the Quran scientifically correct? Is the insight of Guru Nanaak more correct? These questions need to be raised in a different thread. This thread addresses whether Guru Nanak was God or a prophet. There are several threads that look at science and scriptures. Thanks :)
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

to put an end to this discussion i would like to say that kuran which muslim claim to be the ultimate book is total false.Kuran says there are seven sky but Great Guru ,Gurunanak said 500 yr back that there are laks and lakhs of planets and sky that was proved right by the scientists 400 yr later.According to kuran eath is the centre of universe.....!!!!!!!! did so called prophet did not know this and if he received commands from GOD he should have corrected himself so that our Muslim brothers shouldnt have to be ashamed of the ignorance of their prophet.So kuran is nothing but a book that should be read as a comic book and deserves same treatment ie forget after reading and do not apply it to your life.

Guru Nanak loved muslims and hindus alike and never did he say that the Koran is false.
According to Gurbani, a muslim has been given a path to follow :-

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ
सलोकु मः १ ॥
Salok mėhlā 1.
Shalok, First Mehl:


ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ
मिहर मसीति सिदकु मुसला हकु हलालु कुराणु ॥
Mihar masīṯ siḏak muslā hak halāl kurāṇ.
Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.


ਸਰਮ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਰੋਜਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ
सरम सुंनति सीलु रोजा होहु मुसलमाणु ॥
Saram sunaṯ sīl rojā hohu musalmāṇ.
Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.


ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਬਾ ਸਚੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਕਲਮਾ ਕਰਮ ਨਿਵਾਜ
करणी काबा सचु पीरु कलमा करम निवाज ॥
Karṇī kābā sacẖ pīr kalmā karam nivāj.
Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.


ਤਸਬੀ ਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਸੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਖੈ ਲਾਜ ॥੧॥
तसबी सा तिसु भावसी नानक रखै लाज ॥१॥
Ŧasbī sā ṯis bẖāvsī Nānak rakẖai lāj. ||1||
Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. ||1||
 

dps.1976

SPNer
May 12, 2007
4
0
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

The problem with us is that we interpret gurbani according to our understanding.Had the Koran been the last message or Book ,.God would not have send GURU GRANTH SAHIB to bless the mankind. or would have ordered GURU NANAK DEV JI TO rewrite it in gurmukhi.IT is a fact that we should accept that there must have been some falacies in koran that God send SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB to guide the mankind.also respect muslim and respect for great Farid ji .I was just saying that how can one say that Nanak is false prophet just because his prophet said that he would be the last!and how can you explain the scintific mistakes in koran that christens accept to be present in Bible and do not claim that bible is the last word from god and any other book after bible is fake.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

.I was just saying that how can one say that Nanak is false prophet just because his prophet said that he would be the last!and how can you explain the scintific mistakes in koran that christens accept to be present in Bible and do not claim that bible is the last word from god and any other book after bible is fake.

I understand your heart-felt concerns now. As you've clearly pointed that Guru Nanak mentions "patala paataal, lakh agasa agaas......"

All we have to do is read Gurbani in Gurmukhi so that we do not have to deal with mis-translation. But I also believe that the mis-translations are few and the benefits of english translation is satisfactory.
 
Jul 1, 2012
35
66
41
Re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

well my dear muslim brother my guru never instructed me to point finger on others but my guru do ordered me to crush the false and wrong...so here is only one reply of mine to you n ur so called islamic scholars....prophet modh. got revelation from one angel gabriel and not the almighty himself i.e. there is mediator n when an important task is being done you never go for mediators as the mediator can get mistaken or wrong. so had it been so that prophet modh. was to be last messenger to get the most important word of almighty, almighty would have never banked on a mediator...so if we go by the real fact koran is not real word of god but a angel n if u say angel was appointed by god then I say on one hand we have sggsj in which at numerous instances it is being reffered that the shabad is not of guru's himself but of almighty which is being spoken through his mouth
"O (Bhai) Lalo! As the Lord’s
word comes to me so I
deliver it."
(Ang 722, Sri Guru Granth
Sahib Ji)

and on other hand we have a book whose writer was already not in direct contact with god and further more he missed to write the revelations of angel himself n thus it became a third hand book...as it was 1st revealf by a mediator and again compiled by humans after around many years after death of so called last prophet....in the sikh view point you can call him last prophet of angels but nt almighty because no one can guess or put hold on almightys powers and doings n you fools clam to have lockf almighty's powers that even if he wish in future he can not send any other prophet....
AND MOST OF SUCH QUESTIONS WHICH YOU FOOLISH MUSLIMS N SO CALLed ISLAMIC SCHOLARS PUT ON SIKHISM ARE VERY WELL ANSWERED IN THE YOU TUBE CHANNEL 'THE SIKH VIEW POINT'...GUR FATEH
 

Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
Re: Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet ?

well my dear muslim brother my guru never instructed me to point finger on others but my guru do ordered me to crush the false and wrong...so here is only one reply of mine to you n ur so called islamic scholars....prophet modh. got revelation from one angel gabriel and not the almighty himself i.e. there is mediator n when an important task is being done you never go for mediators as the mediator can get mistaken or wrong. so had it been so that prophet modh. was to be last messenger to get the most important word of almighty, almighty would have never banked on a mediator...so if we go by the real fact koran is not real word of god but a angel n if u say angel was appointed by god then I say on one hand we have Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jij in which at numerous instances it is being reffered that the shabad is not of guru's himself but of almighty which is being spoken through his mouth
"O (Bhai) Lalo! As the Lord’s
word comes to me so I
deliver it."
(Ang 722, Sri Guru Granth
Sahib Ji)

and on other hand we have a book whose writer was already not in direct contact with god and further more he missed to write the revelations of angel himself n thus it became a third hand book...as it was 1st revealf by a mediator and again compiled by humans after around many years after death of so called last prophet....in the sikh view point you can call him last prophet of angels but nt almighty because no one can guess or put hold on almightys powers and doings n you fools clam to have lockf almighty's powers that even if he wish in future he can not send any other prophet....
AND MOST OF SUCH QUESTIONS WHICH YOU FOOLISH MUSLIMS N SO CALLed ISLAMIC SCHOLARS PUT ON SIKHISM ARE VERY WELL ANSWERED IN THE YOU TUBE CHANNEL 'THE SIKH VIEW POINT'...GUR FATEH

C'mon dude! No need to "revive" this dead thread after freaking four years...

Secondly, do not make your opinion regarding Muslims just by reading rants from internet posters..How do we know that the thread starter is not some random teenager messing around on the internet? Or probably , he is not even a Muslim but just made one account and started posting crap just to have tensions between Sikhs and Muslims? Or just to give Islam a bad name?

So I beg you to not to fall in the trap. Internet is a tricky place..One must be very careful while using it...

Peace.

Plus: I'll check your Youtube channel sometime 0:)
 

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