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Guru Nanak: A 'False' Prophet?

J

jinni

Guest
Sikhs do call, Guru Nanak as their Prophet. Which is wrong, becos hazrat Muhammad [SAW]was the last prophet, and all others who claim to be one, are hypocrites and false prophet.

Guru Nanak was no Prophet just reformer, it would be clear by reading the fowlling.

Qualities of a Prophet of God

No one can become a prophet of God by his own choosing or effort; Allah has to choose him to be His prophet. And Allah chooses only such persons who have all the qualities necessary for that role, and He does so at the appropriate time in history, and then He protects His prophets from falling into the kind of errors that do not suit a prophet.

The first duty that a prophet of God does is to tell his people that he has been appointed a prophet by God to invite people to His way. Thus, a genuine prophet claims to be a prophet of God, though this claim in itself is not enough. But first and foremost, a prophet has to claim himself to be a prophet of God. The people often question this claim and threaten him to give up his claim. They may even offer him all kinds of temptations that ordinary humans would fall for. But the genuine prophets ignore these and go forward with their God-given mission.

So, the first question you need to ask your Sikh friend is: Did Nanak really claim to be a prophet chosen by God to lead people out of darkness into light?

If the answer is “no,” tell him that this proves that prophethood was conferred on him by his zealous followers and it is meaningless to continue to argue that Nanak was a prophet.

If the answer is “yes,” the second question is: Did Nanak approve of the roles of earlier prophets of God, especially the prophet who came just before him, Muhammad (peace be on him)?

If he says “yes,” ask him then how one can reconcile the fact that Muhammad was the Last Prophet of God and the claim that Nanak was a prophet after the Last Prophet.

The third question is whether all the Sikhs believe that their holy book, called the Adi Granth, was revealed to Nanak by God. If they say “yes,” ask them whether there is any statement to that effect in the book itself and whether Nanak said that the Adi Granth had been fully revealed to him by God. If the answer is in the affirmative, your Sikh friend has to show the proof that the above statements are true, from the Adi Granth itself. This will not be possible for him to do for the following reasons:

1. The Adi Granth is a collection of the writings of many Gurus including Nanak. It was in 1604—Nanak died in 1539—that Arjan Dev, one of the ten Gurus, compiled the hymns of Guru Nanak along with the compositions of both Hindu and Muslim holy men like Jaidev, Surdas, Sheikh Farid and Kabir. The compiled book was enshrined by Arjan in the Golden Temple with the name “Adi Granth.”

2. A prophet of God is a model for all his followers in all aspects of life. But in the case of Sikhism, we find that it was not Guru Nanak, but the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, who organized the community of Sikhs into a khalsa, “a spiritual brotherhood devoted to purity of thought and action.” He taught his followers to wear long hair (kesh, denoting saintly appearance), underwear (kachha, denoting self-control), an iron bangle (kara, denoting purity in acts), a comb (kangha, denoting cleanliness of mind and body), and a sword (kirpan, denoting fight for a just cause).

3. Towards the end of his life, the aged Nanak returned home to Punjab and settled down at Kartharpur with his family. People came from far and near to hear his hymns and preaching. After his death, his Hindu followers thought him to be a Hindu and his Muslim followers thought him to be a Muslim.

From the foregoing, we understand that Guru Nanak was not a prophet of God, but a religious reformer of his times.
 

BabbarSher

SPNer
Jul 3, 2004
48
7
44
globally
Jinni:


Sikhs do call, Guru Nanak as their Prophet. Which is wrong, becos hazrat Muhammad [SAW]was the last prophet, and all others who claim to be one, are hypocrites and false prophet.

Firstly Hazrat Mohammed said himslef that he was the last Prophet. What is the proof that he was the last prophet apart from this.?


Guru Nanak was no Prophet just reformer, it would be clear by reading the fowlling.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was much more than a Prophet.

The defination of Prophet as per Islam is a 'warner' not a guide..Prophets just warn, or prophesise, they dont guide.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji had the Jot of Waheguru, and hence was one with God. He was NOT warned like the Prophet of doom, nor was God ever angry with him.

He was chosen to guide people on the way of Naam, the religion of God.



So, the first question you need to ask your Sikh friend is: Did Nanak really claim to be a prophet chosen by God to lead people out of darkness into light?

If the answer is “no,” tell him that this proves that prophethood was conferred on him by his zealous followers and it is meaningless to continue to argue that Nanak was a prophet.



Hee hee. I have already answered your question above and I think in the light of the above the remaining questions are invalid.

The Gurus of the sikhs were not mere Prophet, who were subject to judgement, rather they were Masters for the sikhs who had the Jot of God.

If the answer is “yes,” the second question is: Did Nanak approve of the roles of earlier prophets of God, especially the prophet who came just before him, Muhammad (peace be on him)?


Now to address your questions with logic of the likeness you have used ;-)
If he says “yes,” ask him then how one can reconcile the fact that Muhammad was the Last Prophet of God and the claim that Nanak was a prophet after the Last Prophet.

It was rather clever of the Prophet to decalre himslef the last prophet. By that he wanted to make Islam the most popular religion. In fact not only did he say he was the last prophet, suring the latter period of his life he even negated the folowings of the earlier prophets.


For if the followings of the early prophets were also true, then there would be no need for the last prophet - Prophet Mohammed to be on this earth and give his own teachings.

The biggest teaching that muslims claim is of Tawheed or the oneness of God. This is not something unique, is it. The Jews knew about this before the pagans of Arabia knew.

In facte I would suggest that you give up claims to Israel and let them libve in peace as the Jews are th original people to know about Tawheed. They are the original Momins


The third question is whether all the Sikhs believe that their holy book, called the Adi Granth, was revealed to Nanak by God. If they say “yes,” ask them whether there is any statement to that effect in the book itself and whether Nanak said that the Adi Granth had been fully revealed to him by God.

Yes. Guru Granth Sahib has got hymns which clearly convey the message that this is the message of God.


In fact it turns out thatwhile Guru Granth Sahib has no inconsistencies in concept, the Quran is full of big blunders.

Not only does it deviate from the spirtual aspct of life, it also breeds hate and violence among the various people.


The lesser said about the Quaranic inconsistencies, the better..but If you want I would be glad to reproduce for you tracts.....which have been translated by muslim authors themselves. :cool:



If the answer is in the affirmative, your Sikh friend has to show the proof that the above statements are true, from the Adi Granth itself.

Like I said, just say it and they will be reproduced on this very Forum.


This will not be possible for him to do for the following reasons:

1. The Adi Granth is a collection of the writings of many Gurus including Nanak. It was in 1604—Nanak died in 1539—that Arjan Dev, one of the ten Gurus, compiled the hymns of Guru Nanak along with the compositions of both Hindu and Muslim holy men like Jaidev, Surdas, Sheikh Farid and Kabir. The compiled book was enshrined by Arjan in the Golden Temple with the name “Adi Granth.”

Yes. Because unlike narrow minded biased Islamic relgion, Sikhism belives that anyone can achieve God. Those who achieved God, only their compositions are included in Guru Granth Sahib.

The touchstone used to test was the Baani which the Gurus thmselves received from 'Dhur'. The touchstone prooved that the Baani of the Bhagats was Ilaahi Baani indeed.

Please note that Gurbaani is all about God, NOT about some piddly myths - which wont even stand the test of time and histroy.

Gurbani is about truth, NOT about false

Gurbani is about Love, not about hating ur fellow beings

Gurbani is about Naam, and focusses ion worship of One True God, NOT some prophet.


2. A prophet of God is a model for all his followers in all aspects of life. But in the case of Sikhism, we find that it was not Guru Nanak, but the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, who organized the community of Sikhs into a khalsa, “a spiritual brotherhood devoted to purity of thought and action.” He taught his followers to wear long hair (kesh, denoting saintly appearance), underwear (kachha, denoting self-control), an iron bangle (kara, denoting purity in acts), a comb (kangha, denoting cleanliness of mind and body), and a sword (kirpan, denoting fight for a just cause).

You dont even understand the basic principles of sikhism. Suggest that you go and study some books.

The Jot which permeated in Guru Nanak moved from him to the rest of the Gurus. The 'moorat' - physical body was different byt the concepts and the Jot was the same.

The iron was readied by Guru Nanak Dev J, The steel was made and forged into the steel by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. The transformation from a piddly
human beings were converted into the complete saint
soldier - the Khalsa.


3. Towards the end of his life, the aged Nanak returned home to Punjab and settled down at Kartharpur with his family. People came from far and near to hear his hymns and preaching. After his death, his Hindu followers thought him to be a Hindu and his Muslim followers thought him to be a Muslim.

Because everyone wants to own an enlightened person. ;-)

Wonder why the Jews did not come forward to claim prophet Mohammed as a jew and the Christian did not come forward to claim him as a Christian even though he had declared that he was a continuation of the line of prophets and the last prophets.


From the foregoing, we understand that Guru Nanak was not a prophet of God, but a religious reformer of his times.


You are indeed a scholar Sir. I salute you ;-)


By the way who many prophets does Islam declare? 12,000 sopmething. Pity that God wanted to send 12,000 prophets in the brief time that civilisation had just started, but therafter he was silence.

What was the big deal about Mohammed. What he had said about Oneness of God was already known to Jews and Christians....

Can you give me the names of at least 100 of these Prophets...please....pretty pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee.......


Akal Sahai


Babbar Sher
 
Jun 1, 2004
3,007
82
41
Perhaps more than any Prophet in history Nanak's coming on Earth was predicted profusely with uncanny accuracy as recorded in some detail below. This has resulted after long and arduous research into the ancient doctrines many dating thousands of years before his actual birth. These are numerically listed below for ease of reference, not necessarily in chronological order. The Vedas and Puranas in which these direct references have been found recorded, are known to be amongst the oldest chronicles in the world. These references are as under:



1. In the Hindu epic the RIG VEDA

(i) In Mandala 7, Ush 5, Mantra 5 and Chapter 6


"Bee chakram prithoi aishai ta khestraaeh Vishnu mansai das sayaan throvaah so asaya keeryo janaas oeroo khashatra so janama chakaar ("
meaning


"when in the world the sinful ways will be on the rise and noble behavior will vanish, as the disappearance of the moon when on its wane on the darkest night, there will appear Vishnu as a prominent Prophet from the Keshatra Clan and will manifest in consecutive form through 10 Prophets to bring back the ways of virtue to the ailing world."
(ii) In the same Vedas, in another part even in the name NANAK and the clan he belongs to is recorded thus -


"Sri Nanak gureng vareng saklaath heythoo. Heitha samasth jagathaa va veithee kaetheng"
meaning


"For the preaching of religious ways and the earning of good karma, there will manifest Guru NANAK from the clan of the Veithees"
(iii) At another position in the same Vedas is entered under Mandala 1 Soothak 5 and in the 7th Mantra thus -


"Eeth eethei Vishnu reinn chakramei threihaa nathathei patham"
meaning


"The Prophet in the Kali Yuga will manifest three attributes. As an Avtar propounding Truth, as a Householder establishing family life and at the same time be a Raja Yogi"


2. The YUJAR VEDA

As in the RIG VEDA quoted above, in the YUJAR VEDA also the Prophet in the Kali Yuga will manifest three main characteristics thus -


"Vishnu bee chakrageih treithaa neikthei patham samudhseiaa paaeh serei swahaa"
meaning


"Vishnu will appear again, manifesting three main characteristics, Avtarhood, Householder family life and be a Rajah Yogi as well"
Although in the above two quotations the name of Nanak does not directly appear, reference to being a householder family man, would point to him because he was among the first few Avtars (prophets) who was married and begetting children.

Incidentally in Hindu mythology, VISHNU is the primordial Godhead Prophet, who incarnates on Earth taking many differing forms and the ensuing names thereto.



3. In the BHAVEKHATH PURANA

"Baavekhath" means "future foretelling". There are numerous places in this famous Hindu epic where the advant of Guru NANAK is directly alluded to. These instances are listed hereunder -

(i)

"Theraa bhaareng thereshtwah keli krethem maha krethyaa. Aeveng vaee tharam parchaariang bhavekhthee thaa kalau. Thatha vei loka rakheiaartheng maleishana naas heithwei paschmeitlheng subh theisay vath wensei chei Nanaka naam nach rekhiang brahem geaanaik manas bhavekhet kaloe skunth thatar verth kaleaah har (35)."
meaning


"In the Kali Yuga when goodness in the world is deteriorating there will appear a Prophet from the Beithi clan named NANAK who from birth will be endowed with extra-ordinary spiritual power. He will preach on the nobility of life and the eradication of the sinful ways"
(ii) In another portion of this book the following short cogent quotation supplies further pertinent information on the advant of Nanak


"Guru thaa Brahma, Guru raa Vishnu, Guru raa dev maheshra saakhyaar Parbrehem Thasmei NANAK nameh"
meaning


"The Guru of the prophets, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv ji is God almighty himself. This very Creator will manifest itself as a human, in the form of one whose name will be NANAK
Note the clarity and explicitness in which the coming of Nanak is predicted.

(iii) Further down in this book is recorded the following detailed assertiveness about Nanak and the type of mission and work he shall perform. It appears to emanate from the Godhead itself.


"The Kali Yuga shall dawn on Earth with radical mainisfestation of destruction of Karma and Dharma to such an extent that every situation shall be colored by sinful activities. At that distressful moment, the Creator shall send down a spiritual liminary in the form of NANAK from the Khatria clan. He will spread the message of NAAM, the Holy life Force, by introducing the primacy of meditation and thus washing clean the sinful ways by the waters of love."
Note the beautiful and comprehensive description of the happening.

(iv) There is yet another quotation from this same Bhavekhath Purana indicative of Nanak and the 9 prophets that consecutively followed his lineage : -


"When in the world there is the deteriorization of noble Dharma, then Vishnu will re-incarnate through 10 Prophethoods and will preach on the universal and omnipotent value of NAAM. (the Holy Life Force)"


4. In DHIGVAJEH PURANA


"During the reign of the 8 Muslim rulers, Vishnu will incarnate in 10 human forms and after them will appear a (Mona) SILENT Guru (meaning the SGGS, the Sikh Scripture) who will only respond where the response is solicited."
The word SILENT is of great importance - it refers to the "Sikh Scriptural Book" (SGGS). This is the first time in the history of Religion that a Sacred Book was elevated to the status of a Prophet. Unlike a Prophet in body form with the inherent capacity to make utterances, a Book has to be categorized as being basically 'Silent'. This is indeed a startling revelation, pinpointing the coming into the world of a (mona) Silent Guru, thousands of years before the actual occurrence.

The eight Muslim Rulers were 1. - Sultan Lodhi, 2. - Babar, 3. - Humanyuh, 4. - Akbar, 5 - Jehangir, 6 - Shah Jahan, 7 - Aurangzeb, 8 - Bahadur Shah, These precisely were the Rulers in India during the period in which the 10th Sikh Guru came into being. This further emphasizes the authenticity of the revelation and the happening.



5. Through PATANJALI the great Indian (Hindu) Sage

Patanjali, one of the top Indian Yogis of old, came 2180 years before Guru Nanak. In his Ashram while lecturing on the Prophets of the Kali Yuga, the Iron Age, he singled out Guru Nanak as the one who will be outstanding. When asked what will be his prime mantra, He replied. -


"Wahyanti karyanti jathputi athak etwaha brahamadeya, teisah Gur et WAHEGURU"
meaning


"He will use a unique single syllable mantra which has not been utilized before at any Age or Era. This will be WAHEGURU."
Waheguru mantra, which means "Lord of Wonderment" has since been popularised by Guru Nanak and all the nine other Sikh Gurus that followed him.



6. In VISHNU PURANA

In the VISHNU PURANA there is recorded an interesting dialogue between VISHNU and a famous Rishi UMBREEK. Vishnu is said to have informed Umbreek that he will once again take birth in the Kali Yuga. The Rishi then enquired when about will that be and what will be your name then? Vishnu replied that this will happen when the Kali Yuga has proceeded for 4500 years and that I will take birth in the Shatri Sooraj Bansi clan, when I will be named, NANAK.

In this same Purana it is further recorded: -


"Sri Nanak santang saageaami
Sri asech, sri asech, sri asech, sri asech"
meaning


"Sri NANAK will once again appear in the world in a variety of incarnations; this is for sure, this is for sure, this is for sure."
Computing the date of Guru Nanak's birth from the above mentioned figure that took place when the Kali Yuga had proceeded for 4550 years, reckoning the total durations of Kali Yuga now to be about 5090 old. It is to be noted that this figure of 4550 is pretty close to the 4500 years predicted by VISHNU JI above. Incidentally, the clan in which Guru Nanak was born was also known as a Shatri Sooraj Bansi indicated above.

CONCLUSION

From the above it is evident that Guru Nanak must have had the largest number of premonitional references to his coming compared to the advent of the other Prophets in all the various Ages and Epochs. Therefore the Prophet Guru Nanak's advent into the world is indeed of millennial significance to even the coming future times.

NANAK

The word NANAK is a combination of two sanskrit terms. 'Na" and 'Anak'. The meaning attached to these words is "Not-but-One". The message conveyed by the Guru's name and the education imparted by him through the Sacred Scriptual verses, usually commence with the words "Ik Oengkar". This phrase too means Non-but-One. One God only.

MOOL MANTRA

There is a very interesting episode in Guru Nanak's illustrious life. When he was still very young, even before his `teens, he took a dip into the river alongside his house for his regular morning ablutions, but this time he dissapeared into the waters, missing for two days and nights. On the third day he re-appeared from out of the water with the following Verse on his lips, which is now called the MOOL MANTRA (the primordal Mantra ), which appers at the commencement of every Chapter and sub-Chapter in the SGGS, the Sacred Scripture of the Sikhs. It is one of the most comprehensive definitions of God and is amongst the most powerful of all the world's Mantras.

This is how the Mool Mantra reads in its original version. -


"Ek Oengkaar Satnaam Karta purekh Nirbhau Nirvair Akaal Moorat Ajoonee Sai- Bhang Gurparsaath"
meaning

"The True One and only Omnipresent Immortal Essence of Reality. The Creator, the Omniscient and Omnipotent, the Incomprehensible (the fearless). Before all Beginnings and after all Endings. Beyond Time, Space and Form (and enmity). Free from the cycle of Births and Deaths, the Self-manifested. The Loving Merciful Enlightener (Realised with His Grace through total Submission to His Will)."
http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/0EB031B72A7052BF87256D370052810D?OpenDocument
 

truth_seeker

SPNer
Jul 18, 2004
52
10
Gods Creation!
The word NANAK is a combination of two sanskrit terms. 'Na" and 'Anak'. The meaning attached to these words is "Not-but-One". The message conveyed by the Guru's name and the education imparted by him through the Sacred Scriptual verses, usually commence with the words "Ik Oengkar". This phrase too means Non-but-One. One God only.
Like the islamic kalima: La Ilaha Illallah, No God but God.
Seal of the Prophets can also mean a certain line , like the abrahamic line of prophecy. Seal does not even mean "last".
 

muslim

SPNer
Dec 29, 2004
118
1
33
uk
Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Ok i will now answer all of your questions, inshallah.

Firstly Hazrat Mohammed said himslef that he was the last Prophet. What is the proof that he was the last prophet apart from this.?

Ok firstly everything in this life has a begining and an end, the prophet Adam the first prophet and Mohammad the last. Each of the prophets before Mohammad were sent to their own nations or tribes, so a prophet would have been sent to the four corners of the earth conveying the same message. Now although the name of this religion conveyed by the prophet at the time may not have been islam they would be the same fundamental religion. Now when the prophet mohammad came as a prophet he was different to all the the previous as he came to not only to the people of arabia but of the world.


Guru Nanak Dev Ji was much more than a Prophet.

The defination of Prophet as per Islam is a 'warner' not a guide..Prophets just warn, or prophesise, they dont guide.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji had the Jot of Waheguru, and hence was one with God. He was NOT warned like the Prophet of doom, nor was God ever angry with him.

He was chosen to guide people on the way of Naam, the religion of God.

When the prophet Mohammad came he came with a warning and guidance for mankind he also prophesised. Muslims use the quran and sunnah for guidance.The prophet of doom? and god was angry? come again.

Hee hee. I have already answered your question above and I think in the light of the above the remaining questions are invalid.

The Gurus of the sikhs were not mere Prophet, who were subject to judgement, rather they were Masters for the sikhs who had the Jot of God.

Now to address your questions with logic of the likeness you have used ;-)

Masters? isnt god the only master of the universe? lol

It was rather clever of the Prophet to decalre himslef the last prophet. By that he wanted to make Islam the most popular religion. In fact not only did he say he was the last prophet, suring the latter period of his life he even negated the folowings of the earlier prophets.

Huh? he negated the followings of the earlier prophets? oh so we only follow the ten commandments sent to moses in the old testament, follow the psalms of david and pray like jesus,yusuf etc, yeah i guess you could call that negating them.

For if the followings of the early prophets were also true, then there would be no need for the last prophet - Prophet Mohammed to be on this earth and give his own teachings.

The biggest teaching that muslims claim is of Tawheed or the oneness of God. This is not something unique, is it. The Jews knew about this before the pagans of Arabia knew.

In facte I would suggest that you give up claims to Israel and let them libve in peace as the Jews are th original people to know about Tawheed. They are the original Momins

Yes all the following prophets were correct in message and true. Mohammad was sent as the seal the last one to give revelation not just for a tribe but to the whole of mankind till the day of judgement. You are correct in saying that the jews knew of the oneness of god before the arab pagans, but is it or is it not true that they rejected a prophet of god? Jesus. When he came as a prophet with the gospel.


Yes. Guru Granth Sahib has got hymns which clearly convey the message that this is the message of God.

In fact it turns out thatwhile Guru Granth Sahib has no inconsistencies in concept, the Quran is full of big blunders.

Not only does it deviate from the spirtual aspct of life, it also breeds hate and violence among the various people.

The lesser said about the Quaranic inconsistencies, the better..but If you want I would be glad to reproduce for you tracts.....which have been translated by muslim authors themselves. :cool:

What proof shows us that the guru granth sahib is the message of god. So what big blunders does the quran have please let me know. Oh so how come the quran is the only book that hasnt been changed. It doesnt deviate from the spritual aspect of life, if so how? and where does it premote violence.

Like I said, just say it and they will be reproduced on this very Forum.

Please do.

Yes. Because unlike narrow minded biased Islamic relgion, Sikhism belives that anyone can achieve God. Those who achieved God, only their compositions are included in Guru Granth Sahib.

The touchstone used to test was the Baani which the Gurus thmselves received from 'Dhur'. The touchstone prooved that the Baani of the Bhagats was Ilaahi Baani indeed.

Please note that Gurbaani is all about God, NOT about some piddly myths - which wont even stand the test of time and histroy.

Gurbani is about truth, NOT about false

Gurbani is about Love, not about hating ur fellow beings

Gurbani is about Naam, and focusses ion worship of One True God, NOT some prophet.

Oh so thats why your ridiculing a prophet of another religion, which your religion say by following him we can reach god. Lol since when did you become an islamic scholar, the quran teaches us about life and the correct path to god.


You dont even understand the basic principles of sikhism. Suggest that you go and study some books.

The Jot which permeated in Guru Nanak moved from him to the rest of the Gurus. The 'moorat' - physical body was different byt the concepts and the Jot was the same.

The iron was readied by Guru Nanak Dev J, The steel was made and forged into the steel by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. The transformation from a piddly human beings were converted into the complete saint
soldier - the Khalsa.

Huh? what are you on about?

Because everyone wants to own an enlightened person. ;-)

Wonder why the Jews did not come forward to claim prophet Mohammed as a jew and the Christian did not come forward to claim him as a Christian even though he had declared that he was a continuation of the line of prophets and the last prophets.

Again you dont know what your talking about, yes the jews did not except him but they didnt even except jesus. If you read the torah you will see that moses speaks of the prophet mohammad. He cannot be classified as a chrsitian as the prophet did not agree with new ideas in christianity eg the trinity. Oh and jesus spoke of the prophet mohammad.


You are indeed a scholar Sir. I salute you ;-)

And so are you.

By the way who many prophets does Islam declare? 12,000 sopmething. Pity that God wanted to send 12,000 prophets in the brief time that civilisation had just started, but therafter he was silence.

What was the big deal about Mohammed. What he had said about Oneness of God was already known to Jews and Christians....

Can you give me the names of at least 100 of these Prophets...please....pretty pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee.......

Huh? oh i forgot here goes mr scholar. Lol silence of god man look at your own reliigon, relevilation only came 600yrs ago lol whats happend to those before sikhism. Big deal about him is he is the seal, bringing revelation to the world. Christians and jews have lost their religion as the sikhs claim muslims and hindus have. The names of prophets are as follows

Qur'anic Name
Biblical Name
Adam
Adam
Idris
Enoch
Nuh
Noah
Hud
-----
Salih
Salih
Ibrahim
Isma'il
Ishmael
Ishaq
Isaac
Lut
Lot
Ya'qub
Jacob
Yusuf
Joseph
Shu'aib
-----
Ayyub
Job
Musa
Moses
Harun
Aaron
Dhu'l-kifl
Ezekiel
Dawud
David
Sulaiman
Solomon
Ilias
Elias
Al-Yasa
Elisha
Yunus
Jonah
Zakariyya
Zechariah
Yahya
John
'Isa
-----


Not quiet a hundred but the quran is not a book of names.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Ek Oankar Akal Sahai

there comes a point from Das.

As per Vachitar Natak,Tenth Guru says so far who so ever came give his name and worship of God Allah was becoming secondary so did God sent him .He said that his Faith will only have the name of God and not of humans.

So Muslims fights with jews or Christians based upon the name of there prophets,But Sikhs have no prophet but God so no fight with anyone till some one offends God.

Dear rember this thing,Sikhs in genral,Khalsa,Pure one,who worship purlyGod,With no adultratiuon of Guru,Prophet or incarnation(Avtar) is himself/herself enjoys the position of a Prophet.

Khalsa does not need heavon or hell as both are created by Allah and can be destroyed when Allah want.So is the human soul.Only Allah Akal,Mahakal will remain.So why thing others.Rasool,Jesus,Guru Nanakdev Ji,Ramchandra all were born and with time left the earth.There body contained physical matterial,whcih can be destroyed.But God can never be made or destroyed.

If some one says that Allah was bounded by some book say holy Kuran and Rasol was the last prophet then we are trying to bind overpowerfull Allah.If Allah want Billions of more powerfull Rasools then Muhamud can be creted in second by Allah.

It is only by mercy of that same powerfull Allah that Allah created such Prophets,The form of Tenth Nanak ,they arte called Khalsa.Who is salvaged and capable to salvage others.

No true Khalsa does worship Guru but does a worship of following Gurubani.
Prophet is one who does forecastes or prophesis.That person is false if forcastes are false.But there were many things which Gurus did say or even many true Khalsas of this age say and they come true.As far as Sikhism such miracles or Prophesis are banned.Yet often as the Khalsa is not under the control of Self but of God. So does God Akal make them to do such things.

Das did read sau Sakhi a record of saying of tenth master.Das can show an old edition(ten year befroe),Which stated that a Sikh will rule from Delhi.it is true today.there are many such things.

By mercy of Akal das want to tell that Gurus told about british ruling India in future even when King like Auranzeb or Bahdur Shah 1st were ruling.

May be some people can say that it could be interpolated at later date say after the conquest of India by Britishers.

So Das is telling another forecast made by Guru,About Sikhs taking over Medina and Mecca(as they are only ture Muslims left).By mercy of Akal das is telling this to let reactionary try to prevent them.More there is an opposition to Khalsa more do Akal strenthen them.Just see in future how this prophecy is realised and that will be proof more then sufficent about the power of Allah.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Jul 4, 2004
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Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Guru Nanak as the remaining nine Sikh Gurus NEVER claimed to be "prophets" and were NOT Prophets...in the same way as the Jewish/Christian/Muslim prophets.

The SIKH GURUS were GURUS -TEACHERS...of the PATH to GOD.....and the GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE is the SHABAD GURU...the WORD that has existed from Time Immemeorial as with GOD.

The GURU GRANTH JI doesnt contain any "prophecies", "miracles" stories and tales about men and so called "prophets", cheating and lying, murdering and stealing, burning and destroying, pillaging and genocide...ALL GURU GRANTH contains are LOVE for GOD...The WAY to GOD..the PERFECT human being and How he loves GOD...and GURU GRANTH doesnt Limit itself to JUST "MY OWN"... this is as UNIVERSAL as GOD HIMSELF.... IF GOD is for all mankind..and all mankind are brothers... then GURU GRANTH is the UNIVERSAL PATH that teaches this Brotherhood of man...an GIVES place of HONOUIR to Hindus, Muslims, others who reached the Path to GOD in their OWN WAY.

Prphets that keep coming and coming is in it self a positive PROOF that the earlier "prophet" FAILED in his Task and God had to send another..after having seen this mohd(pbuh) decided to end all this and declare himself the LAST..just as Jesus had declared Himself the SON of GOD.

GOD is PERFECT and His Prophet should be PERFECT....if another had to come then this so called Prophet is not perfect..

Whatever is in the Bible is also in the ancient Babylonian pagan writings...SAME STORIES and miracles etc...and the Koran took all this wholesale and imported it...so it cant be revealed because it already EXISTS earlier.

However the GURBANI is ORIGINAL...written as it is revelaed and only ONCE..and most importantly written down by its authors.... the comment by some that Guur Arjun Ji wrote Guru nanak Ji's bani is wrong...GURU NANAK Ji and GURU ANGAD Ji and GURU Amardass Ji and Guru ramdass Ji WROTE their own GURBANI...Guur Angad Ji just compiled it all into ONE Place - the GRANTH JI. Later on guru Teg bahadur Ji's bani was written down by Guru Gobind Singh ji.

SIKHI is ORIGINAL...and One of its KIND....NO copies exist.

jarnail Singh
 

BabbarSher

SPNer
Jul 3, 2004
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Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Ok firstly everything in this life has a begining and an end, the prophet Adam the first prophet and Mohammad the last. Each of the prophets before Mohammad were sent to their own nations or tribes, so a prophet would have been sent to the four corners of the earth conveying the same message. Now although the name of this religion conveyed by the prophet at the time may not have been islam they would be the same fundamental religion. Now when the prophet mohammad came as a prophet he was different to all the the previous as he came to not only to the people of arabia but of the world.


>>>>looooooooool... whats the meaning of this gibberish.... I asked you for proof not for statements. The Prophet came to all the people in the world, wonder where you got that from ....ummm let me take a guess ... Quran ..


When the prophet Mohammad came he came with a warning and guidance for mankind he also prophesised. Muslims use the quran and sunnah for guidance.The prophet of doom? and god was angry? come again.

>>>> well your own standard the Quran says that Prophets are onyl Warners and only God is the guide... hmmmm seems to be contradicting what you are saying. Anyway whats this whole warning stuff.. ok let me guess.. God makes people, but then gets angry and jealous because they worship someone else.. is that what the warning is about..(what a concept of God..who is omniprsentand omnipowerful......please take a break......he is not jealous and angry at anyone) ...... or maybe we can add worship of the prophet who gave the warning, above God..... mebbe that even if u accept God id one, u aint going to heaven, but wowo..just accept that Prophet Mohammed is his prophet.. and off you go to non-stop trip to heaven .. lol

Masters? isnt god the only master of the universe? lol


>>>>>>Yes God is the only Master of the Universe... Are you such a novice to not understand the context of the usage of the word .. Master here means teacher... translation for Guru... ...r u really from UK? Nothing to looool about ..

Huh? he negated the followings of the earlier prophets? oh so we only follow the ten commandments sent to moses in the old testament, follow the psalms of david and pray like jesus,yusuf etc, yeah i guess you could call that negating them.

>>>>>>Well .. I am not able to make head or tail of what you are saying in this statement. Are you implying that you FOLLOW or you DO NOT follow .. please be clear .. and also whats the point ..

Yes all the following prophets were correct in message and true. Mohammad was sent as the seal the last one to give revelation not just for a tribe but to the whole of mankind till the day of judgement. You are correct in saying that the jews knew of the oneness of god before the arab pagans, but is it or is it not true that they rejected a prophet of god? Jesus. When he came as a prophet with the gospel.

>>>>>>So.. they already had a prophet .. what was the need of asecond prophet.. isnt it that one people are only sent prophet as per you .. or can there be multiple of prophets ... ??


What proof shows us that the guru granth sahib is the message of god. So what big blunders does the quran have please let me know. Oh so how come the quran is the only book that hasnt been changed. It doesnt deviate from the spritual aspect of life, if so how? and where does it premote violence.


>>>>>>You have asked for proofs.. and I will definately provide them. I will also provide the proof from transaltions done by radical muslims scholars and will leave it to you to decide... Websites have been filled by all this.

As far as Guru Granth Sahib is concerned.. one has to read it to know thats its Baani is divine.. thats enough for me.. I dont want to convert other people... just want to defend my religion and my beliefs... when one eyed muslims come running to convert sikhs ... loooool..

Have said it earlier to idiots like Jinni .. leave us alone. leave our women alone .. we dont need you are your religion, but they dont understand ..

and when all else fails.. sikhs do know how to respond ..and response you will get from us..

Again you dont know what your talking about, yes the jews did not except him but they didnt even except jesus. If you read the torah you will see that moses speaks of the prophet mohammad. He cannot be classified as a chrsitian as the prophet did not agree with new ideas in christianity eg the trinity. Oh and jesus spoke of the prophet mohammad.

>>>> grow up... its not written in old testament or the new one about Prophet Mohammed.. the Christians and Jews both deny it. You are only feeding upon what radical islamic scholars feed you.. thats the whole issue with you guys,, me, my religiois best..others are stupid.. they cant be good.. they are mislead..



>>>>>>Huh? oh i forgot here goes mr scholar. Lol silence of god man look at your own reliigon, relevilation only came 600yrs ago lol whats happend to those before sikhism.

>>>>>>> loooool...man u r a piece of art.

600 years ago, Guru Nanak recognised the will of God, his Hukam and presented his religion. People before Guru Nanak --- also reognised will of God and attained him... many of the Bhagats lived before his age...

Guru Nanak brought out the truth as ordained by God, from the starting of time, while the rest of the world, just indulged in pettey rituals...

>>>>> I am not good at maths,,, but i dont think that totals up to even a fifty ... hmmmm Howzaaat and many of these Prophets dont even have a historical identitity. loooooooooool

>>>>>Yes. thanks for reminding us .. Quran is not a book of names... thats why it is conveninet to make unsupported statements..

>>>>>Man.. you guys are off the rack... i heard some Naik guy speaking on TV.. is he laughable... where is the workshop where they fill u with such stuff..


:whisling:
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
Well first of All das want to elaborate one thing over here.That is ,that das also is not supporting any sort of Prophesisis and main aim of Das was to just bring that main essence of Sikhism ie to put full stop on prophet oriented religeon.

As prophets are human and no man is perfect so following Prophets or say keeping one name as Muhamud is not Good till God is not worshipped.Anyone who is one with God is rather above prophet.Thing to remember that prophets were created by God to serve universe,That made them great.Anyone who serves universe will become great by mercy of God.

Now coming on Miracle or forecasts in Adi Guru Darbar.

Das is only giveng some hints.

Baberbani(about SherShah Suri's replacing Mughuls in future)

And Bhagat Namdevs making temple to rotate.He tells God that if God did not show miracle then God's greatness may not be shown to the world around,Even if Bhagat Namdev did get salvation after his death.
 

muslim

SPNer
Dec 29, 2004
118
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uk
Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

>>>>looooooooool... whats the meaning of this gibberish.... I asked you for proof not for statements. The Prophet came to all the people in the world, wonder where you got that from ....ummm let me take a guess ... Quran ..

lol so where do you get your information? or do you just make it up as you go along? lol so whats the guru granth sahib to you? just a book? dont you ever read it and seek guidance from it, maybe thats a bit far fetched as its only your eternal guru for guidance.

>>>> well your own standard the Quran says that Prophets are onyl Warners and only God is the guide... hmmmm seems to be contradicting what you are saying. Anyway whats this whole warning stuff.. ok let me guess.. God makes people, but then gets angry and jealous because they worship someone else.. is that what the warning is about..(what a concept of God..who is omniprsentand omnipowerful......please take a break......he is not jealous and angry at anyone) ...... or maybe we can add worship of the prophet who gave the warning, above God..... mebbe that even if u accept God id one, u aint going to heaven, but wowo..just accept that Prophet Mohammed is his prophet.. and off you go to non-stop trip to heaven .. lol

Yea they warn you from the incorrect and show the correct. Yes all guidance is from allah and he gives this guidance to the people through the prophets. lol your a real joke you know that, no god does not get jealous but he does not like those who do not obey him. hmm once again your hate towards islam is comming out yaaawn. And what do sikhs believe? we die and are reencarnated into a low or higher state of being. So what when i die i become a fly? ok fair enough but how do i become a good fly to move up. So if in each and every life im bad what do i keep getting reencarnated? does this mean that this life will never end of there is always people being bad? We know thats not tru as the world will end when the suns time is up in millions of years.

>>>>>>Well .. I am not able to make head or tail of what you are saying in this statement. Are you implying that you FOLLOW or you DO NOT follow .. please be clear .. and also whats the point ..

Are you brain dead? duh muslims follow them.

>>>>>>So.. they already had a prophet .. what was the need of asecond prophet.. isnt it that one people are only sent prophet as per you .. or can there be multiple of prophets ... ??

Umm Jesus didnt come to the people of Arabia duuuuh.

As far as Guru Granth Sahib is concerned.. one has to read it to know thats its Baani is divine.. thats enough for me.. I dont want to convert other people... just want to defend my religion and my beliefs... when one eyed muslims come running to convert sikhs ... loooool..

Yea thats why the language of gurumuki has vanished, and so you can never fully appreciates its beauty."i want facts not statements". So if your religion is the true religion why are you so selfish in not wanting to share its beauty and wisdom, doesnt everyone desreve the right to follows god path. Lol you dont convert people because no one wants to. WHY DO PEOPLE CONVERT TO ISLAM IF ITS SO WRONG?

Have said it earlier to idiots like Jinni .. leave us alone. leave our women alone .. we dont need you are your religion, but they dont understand ..

and when all else fails.. sikhs do know how to respond ..and response you will get from us..

AWWW all your women are reverting back to islam? what a shame. Lol umm i thought all religions are equal and can attain a path to god? so why does it matter if anyone is a sikh or muslim?

>>>> grow up... its not written in old testament or the new one about Prophet Mohammed.. the Christians and Jews both deny it. You are only feeding upon what radical islamic scholars feed you.. thats the whole issue with you guys,, me, my religiois best..others are stupid.. they cant be good.. they are mislead..

Ok so if if isnt written then why do they revert? Lol thats all you guys can pull out, radical muslim scholars lol. No islam is the same religion of moses and jesus.

600 years ago, Guru Nanak recognised the will of God, his Hukam and presented his religion. People before Guru Nanak --- also reognised will of God and attained him... many of the Bhagats lived before his age...

Guru Nanak brought out the truth as ordained by God, from the starting of time, while the rest of the world, just indulged in pettey rituals...

Lol so Guru Nanak is the only one who shared his religion with his peopl and the others who also recognised this will of god thought hmmm should i tell the people or not...nahh. Huh? guru nanak brought the truth from the beginning of time?

I look forward to the day Islam is the worlds biggest religion and Sikhism dies out, cos face it man like you said your women are embracing islam and leaving sikhi, people are loosing their 5k's and no one really attends your guduwaras.

 
Jul 13, 2004
588
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Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

muslim said:
no god does not get jealous but he does not like those who do not obey him.
Sikhs do not believe in such a God who hates, has ego and dislikes. GOD is beyond hate, dislike and such attitudes in Sikhism.
Sidenote: I do not know much about the OLD TESTAMENT but it is written in the NEW TESTAMENT that GOD IS JEALOUS.

muslim said:
And what do sikhs believe? we die and are reencarnated into a low or higher state of being. So what when i die i become a fly? ok fair enough but how do i become a good fly to move up. So if in each and every life im bad what do i keep getting reencarnated? does this mean that this life will never end of there is always people being bad? We know thats not tru as the world will end when the suns time is up in millions of years.
In Sikhism GOD is free from hate - he gives an endless amount of lives to try and merge with him. An Amritdhari Sikh who has followed Sikhism properly will be freed from the cycle of reincarnation and merge with GOD. What you are reborn has depends on how bad you are in this life - only GOD knows what exact actions add up to each level of being in the next life.

muslim said:
Umm Jesus didnt come to the people of Arabia duuuuh.
Since this is a SIKH forum, there will be a lot of people here with less knowledge on Islam than you. So please refrain from saying things like "duuuuh" implying that others are dumb. NO HUMAN can be all knowing. We are all here to learn, do not insult the disability of another.

muslim said:
Yea thats why the language of gurumuki has vanished, and so you can never fully appreciates its beauty."i want facts not statements". So if your religion is the true religion why are you so selfish in not wanting to share its beauty and wisdom, doesnt everyone desreve the right to follows god path. Lol you dont convert people because no one wants to.
Gurumukhi has vanished? Is that why in majority of Gurdwaras GURUJI is in Gurumukhi?
Sikhism DOES NOT claim to be the true religion. In Sikhism there is NO SUCH THING. All religions are considered paths to GOD.

muslim said:
WHY DO PEOPLE CONVERT TO ISLAM IF ITS SO WRONG?
Why do people rape if it is so wrong? Drugs? Drink? Why did the holocaust happen if it is so wrong? Yet again this is not a good argument for saying something is good.

muslim said:
AWWW all your women are reverting back to islam? what a shame. Lol umm i thought all religions are equal and can attain a path to god? so why does it matter if anyone is a sikh or muslim?
It matters because they often convert under false pretenses and lured into Islam. It matters because they are often brainwashed into Islam by some guy who says he loves her because he knows paradise is promised to him if he converts her.

muslim said:
I look forward to the day Islam is the worlds biggest religion and Sikhism dies out, cos face it man like you said your women are embracing islam and leaving sikhi, people are loosing their 5k's and no one really attends your guduwaras.
I look forward to the day that Muslims become more open to the world around them... the 12th of never is the date I predict.
 

BabbarSher

SPNer
Jul 3, 2004
48
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Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

When Logic fails, resort to statements in RED of a much larger font. - instructions for a typical muslim ;-)


lol so where do you get your information? or do you just make it up as you go along? lol so whats the guru granth sahib to you? just a book? dont you ever read it and seek guidance from it, maybe thats a bit far fetched as its only your eternal guru for guidance.

>>>>>>U keep loling.....wonder whats so funny..or is it your lack of intellect - that prompts you to lol, so you can skip out on the arguments (actually its quite obvious ..that u lack intellect when you follow such a corrupted religion and have the cheek to defend it while decrying all others)


Yea they warn you from the incorrect and show the correct. Yes all guidance is from allah and he gives this guidance to the people through the prophets.


>>>Sudden change of statements and then you turn the other way and call me a joke .. we'll let the forum members decide whose the joke ..

lol your a real joke you know that, no god does not get jealous but he does not like those who do not obey him.

>>>> Caramel has already replied to you and yes its written both in the old and the new testament that God is jealous. So if you are a true muslim, you have just become a herectic by saying God is not jealous.

OK so now God is not jealous, but he hates... thats a beautiful concept you have in your mind for God.


hmm once again your hate towards islam is comming out yaaawn. And what do sikhs believe? we die and are reencarnated into a low or higher state of being. So what when i die i become a fly? ok fair enough but how do i become a good fly to move up. So if in each and every life im bad what do i keep getting reencarnated? does this mean that this life will never end of there is always people being bad? We know thats not tru as the world will end when the suns time is up in millions of years.

>>>>> Yes and thats your judgement day. What a poor concept. All those people who died in the beginning ..will have to wait for millions of years, while those who die just before the sun's time is up will be resurrected. lovely ..

And anyway in about a million years, science would have moved to such a stage to inahabit other planets...

>>>> Regarding your question of good fly bad fly..lets say .. look before you leap.. Fly and the other births are automatic evlolutions, you are not blamed for what you do in these births. It is a gradual evolution.

>>>>But umm whl are we talkingto here - a stubborn muslim fanatic..

>>>> Are you brain dead? duh muslims follow them.

well if i keep listening to the stupidities you are pouring out I might as well be.. poor things who read your posts, what torture...they have to sustain

Are you a Dodo ?.. Hey mod I heard Dodos were extinct .. guess this Dodos time is also up...

So you follow them but dont belive in their commandments, or do you .. do u belive God id jealous for e.g. ? Do you belive in Kosher and Sabbath .. ?

Is Jesus your saviour?

Umm Jesus didnt come to the people of Arabia duuuuh.

>>> You should say Arabs, not people of Arabia ..duuuhhh .. do u want someone to expand on the rivalries of Arabs and Jews and the background to that ... an why you hate Israelis so much ..


Yea thats why the language of gurumuki has vanished, and so you can never fully appreciates its beauty."i want facts not statements". So if your religion is the true religion why are you so selfish in not wanting to share its beauty and wisdom, doesnt everyone desreve the right to follows god path. Lol you dont convert people because no one wants to. WHY DO PEOPLE CONVERT TO ISLAM IF ITS SO WRONG?


>>>> Gurmukhi-----vanished .... (note to moderators .. where did u get this sample from .. timbuctoo ??)

>>>> We are not selfish, we let people study and choose their own religion, but we are not fanatics forcing stupid religions down peopls throats. You should ask scores of people of various nationalities who have converted.

People do not convert to Islam, muslims convert them by hook and crook, cause thats muslims policy and mandate...

You should take a look at the bloody history of Islam's expansion

Just get your Mullahs to proclaim that any muslim can convert to any religion, and no action (read death penalty ) will be imposed against him and especially HER and see how the face of muslim countries changes


AWWW all your women are reverting back to islam? what a shame.

>>>>They are not reverting back, crooks like you use crooked methods and forcible conversion to TRY and convert THEM .....what a shame on Islams name .. what a truthful religion and what atruthful follower

Lol umm i thought all religions are equal and can attain a path to god? so why does it matter if anyone is a sikh or muslim?

>>>>All religions that are not crooked and corrupted.. Do u write on this forum without spectacles and miss out reading some lines???

I look forward to the day Islam is the worlds biggest religion and Sikhism dies out, cos face it man like you said your women are embracing islam and leaving sikhi, people are loosing their 5k's and no one really attends your guduwaras.

>>>>>>>>I never said they are converting, idiots like TRY AND CONVERT THEM. Sikh women are honest and sentimental and thats what you crooks have been making use of.... getting closer in garbs of friendship and then using mean tricks.

They have anyway woken up to your tricks..

You should look inside your own homes, arab women have sex with Indian taxi drivers..while the arabs away ....loooooooooooooooool ..... or paki women, saying prayers and then going out to discoies and enjoying drinks.. eh, or lebanani women .. or for that matter scores of others.

If you live in glass houses, dont throw stones at people outside....

Our ancestors busted the {censored} of muslims like you... and our women gave up their lives and never embraced Islam. We are gonna do the same to you....

Sikhi Forever :)








:shy:
 

muslim

SPNer
Dec 29, 2004
118
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Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Its seems that this arguement is going nowhere. You have your ideas about islam and so do i, neither of us is going to change so whats the point.Sikhi forever, nice thought to bad its not reality.
 

lion

SPNer
Jul 18, 2004
31
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Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

Aman Singh said:
Hi dear muslim, ok then what happens next ? :)
Singh ji,then world will be going back just 1000's of years....(from where islam has started).......
 
Jul 13, 2004
588
62
32
UK
Re: Guru Nanak was a 'false' Prophet ??

You obviously thought that you could change our minds otherwise you wouldn't have been trying to sell Islam. Face it: NON-Muslims can have deep, strong, unswerving faith also.
 

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