Ear Wax And Creation Issues Raised By S. Harmanjeet Singh Ji Answered | Page 3 | SIKH PHILOSOPHY NETWORK
  • Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Ear Wax And Creation Issues Raised By S. Harmanjeet Singh Ji Answered

Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
Pothi Parmesur Kaa THaan = Shabad from 5th Nanak in reference to Aad Granth Ji. Where does first Nanak writing Pothi Parmesure Kaa THaan come from? When will you stop lying and misleading the Sikh sangat?

You said nine bodies after 5th Nanak.
Lets see:
1) Guru Hargobind
2) Guru Har Rai
3) Guru HarKrishan
4) Guru Tegh Bahadur
5) Guru Gobind Singh Ji

That is only 5. How did you get nine? Added names of those poets?

Lets see
6) Poet Shyam
7) Poet Raam
8) Poet Kaal
9) Sukha Singh Patna?

Also, do you know diffrence between naag and nugg? I sure do because I sure can read Gurmukhi script. You might fool those who have no clue about Gurmukhi script but not us.

There is no twisting attempt. I am not attempting to twist anything. I am not the one saying poet Shyam is 10th Nanak. Come on Vijay, speak truth. Gurbani says:

ਬੋਲੀਐ ਸਚੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਨ ਬੋਲੀਐ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੪੮੮}
Boaleeaai Sach Dharam Jhooth Na Boaleeaai ||
Speak truth in righteousness, do not speak falsehood.

I am sorry, how would there be righteousness when poet SHyam is declared as 10th Nanak.
Dear Brother,

Das is sorry over here as das would have written Five and not nine. But thing to be elaborated over here is that Five Gurus still existed after declaring Pothi as place of God, but only after Fifth Master does term Granth has come.

So thank you for rectfiying the mistake of Das but question of bodies Guru is not answered as yet us having five even after pothis being declared as place of God.

[SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0] {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਜੋ ਗਮਨ ਨਾ ਕਰੇ. ਪਰਬਤ. "ਪੱਛ ਪਸੂ ਨਗ ਨਾਗ ਨਰਾਧਿਪ". (ਅਕਾਲ)। (2) ਘਰ। (3) ਬਿਰਛ। (4) ਫ਼ਾ. __ ਤਾਲੂਆ। (5) ਨਗੀਨਾ. "ਨਾਮ ਨਗ ਹੀਰ ਮਣਿ". (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੪. ਕੇ)। (6) ਸੰਖ੍ਯਾ ਬੋਧਕ. ਅ਼ਦਦ. ਨੰਬਰ, ਜਿਵੇਂ- ਚਾਰ ਨਗ ਬਾਲ, ਦਸ ਨਗ ਗਲਾਸ ਆਦਿ. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]


We find term Nugg used for hill or mound, asteroid are of that shape, If we replace Naa with Na, meaning remains the same. This done in poetry to make single vowel into double. like in the case of Saacha and Sacha means he same.
[/SIZE]
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
You are completely wrong as once again you are looking at meaning of nugg and not naag. Naag and nugg are different. This has nothing to do with poetry at all. Even in above quote mentioned in your post has two terms, nugg and naag. You clearly aren't fooling anyone but DG lovers.

Also, when did Gurmukhi turn into Roman? These words have meanings. You would know if you ever wanted to know.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Das is not typing anything in Gurmukhi as yet.

it has been given by an example over here that long aa and short a could be interchanged as with Sach and Saach.

It could be seen the terms fooling and other words, are they fine ?

1. Page9 Line 16 Raag Aasaa: Guru Nanak Dev

ਸਾਚੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਲਾਗੈ ਭੂਖ ॥
saachae naam kee laagai bhookh ||
If someone feels hunger for the True Name,
1. Page7 Line 5 Raag Jap: Guru Nanak Dev


ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੇ ਕੀ ਸਾਚੀ ਕਾਰ ॥
naanak sachae kee saachee kaar ||
O Nanak, True is the Creation of the True Lord.

So does the word in red above with or without Kanna means same or not ? why can not be called Nugg be termed as Naag.
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
No, they do have slightly different meanings. Go ask Surjit Singh Missionary, he should be able to tell you. I don't want to get into technical explanations of words but I will post meanigs from Mahan Kosh:

Nugg
ਸੰਗਾ- ਜੋ ਗਮਨ ਨਾ ਕਰੇ. ਪਰਬਤ. ''ਪੱਛ ਪਸੂ ਨਗ ਨਾਗ ਨਰਾਧਿਪ.'' (ਅਕਾਲ) ੨. ਘਰ। ੩. ਬਿਰਛ। ੪. ਾ. ... ਤਾਲੂਆ। ੫. ਨਗੀਨਾ. ''ਨਾਮ ਨਗ ਹੀਰ ਮਣਿ.'' (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮ ੪. ਕੇ) ੬. ਸੰਖਾ ਬੋਧਕ. ਅਦਦ. ਨਬਰ, ਜਿਵੇਂ- ਚਾਰ ਨਗ ਬਾਲ, ਦਸ ਨਗ ਗਲਾਸ ਆਦਿ.

Naag
ਸੰ. ਸੰਗਾ- ਹਾਥੀ. ਹਸੀ. ''ਆਰੂੜ ਤੇ ਅਸ ਰਥ ਨਾਗਹ.'' (ਸਹਸ ਮ ੫) ''ਗੁਰੁਵਚ ਅੰਕੁਸ, ਨਾਗ ਮਨ.'' (ਨਾਪ੍ਰ) ੨. ਸਰਪ. ਸੱਪ. ''ਪੱਛਿ ਪਸ ਨਗ ਨਾਗ ਨਰਾਧਿਪ.'' (ਅਕਾਲ) ੩. ਸ਼ਰੀਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਇੱਕ ਵਾਯੁ (ਪਵਨ), ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਡਕਾਰ ਦਾ ਹੋਣਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ. ''ਨਾਗ ਔਰ ਕੂਰਮ ਕ੍ਰਿਕਲ ਦੇਵਦੱਤ ਲਖੋ.'' (ਨਾਪ੍ਰ) ਦੇਖੋ, ਦਸਪ੍ਰਾਣ। ੪. ਕਦ੍ਰ ਤੋਂ ਕਸ਼ਪ ਦੀ ਸੰਤਾਨ, ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਨਾਗਵੰਸ਼ ਚੱਲਿਆ ਹੈ. ਇਸ ਵੰਸ਼ ਦੇ ਹੀ ਰਾਜਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਜਨਮੇਜਯ ਨੇ ਨਾਸ਼ ਕੀਤਾ ਸੀ. ਇਤਿਹਾਸਵੇੱਤਾ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਸ਼ਕਵੰਸ਼ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਇੱਕ ਸਾਖ ਨਾਗਵੰਸ਼ ਹੈ. ਜਦ ਸਿੰਕਦਰ ਭਾਰਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਇਆ ਤਦ ਤਸ਼ਿਲਾ ਦਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਨਾਗਵੰਸ਼ੀ ਸੀ, ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਵਡੇ ਵਡੇ ਸੱਪ ਪਾਲੇ ਹੋਏ ਸਨ ਅਰ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਨਿਤ ਪੂਜਾ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਸੀ। ੫. ਸੰਧੂਰ. ਸਿੰਦੂਰ। ੬. ਇੱਕ ਨਦੀ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਨਾਗਪੁਰ

Totally different meanings.


Saachay Naam kee means Sachay Day Naam Dee.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

Dear Brother,

As was proven above which das failed to let you understand is that there is single vowel and double vowal in poetry, where based upon making of Chhand single vowel is replaced by double while meaning remain the same.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ch{censored}t=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CHcl%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="Edit-Time-Data" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CHcl%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_editdata.mso"><!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn::eek:ffice:smarttags" name="place"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn::eek:ffice:smarttags" name="country-region"></o:smarttagtype><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Mangal; panose-1:0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-ch{censored}t:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:32771 0 0 0 1 0;} @font-face {font-family:Raavi; panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-ch{censored}t:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:131075 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Gurfateh
<o:p> </o:p>
Brother kindly see that Guru has also added Kanna to make Jam as Jaam. So when a person does not know the rules of poetry and yet try to prove himself master and others as false, Akal may bless him. So work for you in two two ways of explaining but are you ready to learn at all. ?
Coming to the matter of Nag and Naag.
<o:p> </o:p>
Let us see an example of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
<o:p> </o:p>

(੧੩੬੮-੧੧, ਸਲੋਕ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)
ਕਬੀਰ ਜਮ ਕਾ ਠੇਂਗਾ ਬੁਰਾ ਹੈ ਓਹੁ ਨਹੀ ਸਹਿਆ ਜਾਇ
kabeer jam kaa thaenagaa buraa hai ouhu nehee sehiaa jaae ||
Kabeer, Death's club is terrible; it cannot be endured.
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">​
11 Salok Saint Kabir
(Ang 1368)
(੨੧੧-, ਗਉੜੀ, )
ਅਵਰੁ ਜਿ ਕਰਨ ਕਰਾਵਨੋ ਤਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਭਉ ਹੈ ਜਾਮ ਕਾ ਰਹਾਉ
avar j karan karaavano thin mehi bho hai jaam kaa ||1|| rehaao ||
Whatever else you do or make happen, the fear of death still hangs over you. ||1||Pause||
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">​
2 Gaurhee Guru Arjan Dev
(Ang 211)
<o:p> </o:p>
We see term both jam and jam used for death.
ਜਮ and ਜਾਮ used for same meaning but why an extra Kanna or “T” of Gumukhi ?
So for that reason one must know the rule of poetry which make it good to be sung.
<o:p> </o:p>
We have vynjans or constants. We also have vowels or Svar. Both ਜਮ and ਜਾਮ have two constants each but former has two values of vowels while latters has three. Symbol for short vowel/harsva Svar is “/” of small size. While for prolonged vowel/Dirgh Swar we have symbol “2” but a bit 45 degree slanted from base. So ini case of vowel former has value 2 while later has value 3. As ਜhas value 1, ਮhas value 1 in case of former. While in case of later we have ਜਾ as value 2 and ਮ as value 1.
<o:p> </o:p>
For the same reason, term Nagਨਗ
and Naag ਨਾਗ
could be used interchangeable depending upon the style of poetry.
<o:p> </o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Further to it based upon the grammar of Sanskrit and standardizes Hindi Grammar of making of words. Let us carry out an experiment.
<o:p> </o:p>
Let us take word Guru.
<o:p> </o:p>
Guਗੁ stand for darkness. This is basic or Rurh word. Ru ਰੁstands for remover.
So as yogic or combined word we find remover of darkness as Guru ਗੁਰੁ .
<o:p> </o:p>
Yet as per Yogrurh word ined word working as basic word/specific meaning comb word working as basic word, we find meaning of Guru ਗੁਰੁ as spiritual teacher.
<o:p> </o:p>
Likewise let us take another example. Term Ram means absorbed, with adding of “T” or Kanna of Gurmukhi term Raam becoming ,one who is absorbed. So Kann or Barha “aa” of Hindi makes transforms the word of object into the object related to that object in some way. Here in case of Raam, we find the case of attribute attached to an entity of the word Ram(pronounced “rumm”).
<o:p> </o:p>
Like wise nagar means town, naagar means one, who is from town by same rule.
<o:p> </o:p>
Same rule applies for nag(pronounced “nugg”). Na stands for no/not and Ga for movement(gamanah in Sanskrit). This has specific meaning for hill. Naag means from Hills, it could be cobra, it could be tribe of Nagaland(hill state in north east <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region>), it could be Sindur(red power used by married Indian lady in make up) obtained from hill. Before earth is not assembled, a large rock from heavy celestial hill like irregular object in space too means Naag, which is also called asteroid.
<o:p> </o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Das is still ready for childish slander inflicted upon the scientific explanation, without understanding the rules of the grammar.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
Say whatever, I won't buy your excuses and irrational logics. I don't have time to waste on you. Check MK, jaam is another word for jum. While nug is not another word for naag. I explained this before, I don't have time to repeat again. You run around like a kid in candy store. You try quotes and say 'this one'? 'This one?' Well, not that one. Nug means nug, naag means naag. Case is clear for me. If you want to live in doubt, your issue. I have no desire to become a Sikh of Mahakal Kalika. You are welcome to do so.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,608
Here's another example of Nag and Naag as used in the following shabad:-

Deenan Ki Prithpaal Kare Nit, Sant obaar Gani Munn Garrey

Panch Pashoo Nag Naag Niraadhhip, Sarab Samey Sabh Ko Prithparrey
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,608
About Jaam here's a shabad from SGGS on page 1399 :-

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਜਾਮਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੋਇ ਵਲਿ ਧਨਹਿ ਕਿਆ ਗਾਰਵੁ ਦਿਜਇ
जामि गुरू होइ वलि धनहि किआ गारवु दिजइ ॥
Jām gurū ho▫e val dẖanėh ki▫ā gārav ḏij▫e.
One who has the Guru on his side - how could he be proud of his wealth?

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਾਮਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੋਇ ਵਲਿ ਲਖ ਬਾਹੇ ਕਿਆ ਕਿਜਇ
जामि गुरू होइ वलि लख बाहे किआ किजइ ॥
Jām gurū ho▫e val lakẖ bāhe ki▫ā kij▫e.
One who has the Guru on his side - what would hundreds of thousands of supporters do for him?

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਾਮਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੋਇ ਵਲਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਅਰੁ ਧਿਆਨ ਅਨਨ ਪਰਿ
जामि गुरू होइ वलि गिआन अरु धिआन अनन परि ॥
Jām gurū ho▫e val gi▫ān ar ḏẖi▫ān anan par.
One who has the Guru on his side, does not depend on anyone else for spiritual wisdom and meditation.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਾਮਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੋਇ ਵਲਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਾਖੀ ਸੁ ਸਚਹ ਘਰਿ
जामि गुरू होइ वलि सबदु साखी सु सचह घरि ॥
Jām gurū ho▫e val sabaḏ sākẖī so sacẖah gẖar.
One who has the Guru on his side contemplates the Shabad and the Teachings, and abides in the Home of Truth.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਜਪੈ ਦਾਸੁ ਭਟੁ ਬੇਨਤਿ ਕਹੈ
जो गुरू गुरू अहिनिसि जपै दासु भटु बेनति कहै ॥
Jo gurū gurū ahinis japai ḏās bẖat benaṯ kahai.
The Lord's humble slave and poet utters this prayer: whoever chants to the Guru night and day,

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦ ਮਹਿ ਧਰੈ ਸੋ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਹ ਥੇ ਰਹੈ ॥੩॥੭॥
जो गुरू नामु रिद महि धरै सो जनम मरण दुह थे रहै ॥३॥७॥
Jo gurū nām riḏ mėh ḏẖarai so janam maraṇ ḏuh the rahai. ||3||7||
whoever enshrines the Name of the Guru within his heart, is rid of both birth and death. ||3||7|| </td></tr></tbody></table>
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

The complete Shabd as composed by Guru Arjun ji and recorded on page 392 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS) is as follows:


ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Asa Mehla 5 (SGGS Page 392)


ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਕਰਿ...

SPN on Facebook

...
Top