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Sects Discussion On Naamdhari Sikhs

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
Bhenji Surinder Kaur

It seems that no matter what I say you are going to continue with your attacks. I keep telling you that:

1) I am not a missionary. My aim is NOT to even try to convert. Satguruji do not preach convertions.

2)
Why do you keep ignoring the above statement?

The only people who seem to have a missionary agenda is yourselves!



I'm so pleased you have understood the meaning of my statement. This is the only meaning I intended to forward to you.



Who am I to 'make new history'? As I have been telling you, it is history which has been SUPPRESSED. Namdhari Sikhs aren't a 'modern cult'. Satguru Ram Singhji came at a time when Sikhi was almost extinct. Christianity was making new converts every day. What He did to resurrect Sikhi is a part of Sikh history. People who are against Namdhari Sikhs(for whatever reasons) have done their level best to keep this chapter in Sikh history hidden from the masses. Those who are intellectual and who can find it within themselves to research with an inbiased mind will and can see the truth.
If you want to believe that all of what happened after Guru Gobind Singhji in the fold of His Sikhs who are now known as Namdharis is 'made up history', then that is your freedom. But neither you nor your ancestors can be successful in eliminating this truth. It will keep rising. Saying it is 'new history' is ignorance.



Again, Bhenji, you are twisting my words to satisfy your own agenda.
'Namdhari' term means nothing different than what it means in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. Being a Naamdhari Sikh MEANS being a Sikh who recites that Naam, Gurmanther which Satguru Nanak Devji brought into this Earth.

We believe in our Guru as per Commands given WITHIN the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib.

By Amrit Sanchar, I presume you mean Khande - di - Pahul as administered by the 5 Pyarae to intiate a Sikh into the Khalsa Fold.
This is no different with Namdhari Sikhs. We are given Khande-da-Amrit, prepared by 5 Pyarae whilst reciting:

Japji Sahib

Jaap Sahib
Choupai
10 Sweyae
Anand Sahib

This is then administered to drink with 5 'Choolae', Sprinkled 5 times in the Kesh, 5 times in the eyes whilst repeating 'Wahiguru ji ka Khalsa, Sri Wahiguru ji ki Fathae' each time.

So where are the differences you keep harping on about?
If anything, Namdhari Sikhs are more rigorous in keeping these practices than our general bretheren.



Is Guru Nanak Devji not your Guru? Is Guru Gobind Singhji not your Guru?
If not. If only Sabad Guru is your Guru, then I admit defeat.
Say Guru Nanak Devji to Guru Gobind Singhji are not your Gurus and I will accept that we are indeed different.
For they are my Gurus.
Veer Ji,

please, i am not attacking you.
i am simply trying to analyze your statements.

let us take one point at a time-

now you say-
Sikh Naamdhari said:
I am not a missionary. My aim is NOT to even try to convert. Satguruji do not preach convertions.
Sikh Naamdhari said:
I am not a missionary. I have no objection to what anyone believes.
and you said in a former post-
Sikh Naamdhari said:
My original post still stands and I stand by every word I have written.
in your original post-

Sikh Naamdhari said:
I have yet to understand where in the vastness of Sikh history the first 10 Satgurus ordained their followers to stop regarding Them as Satguru and follow the 'Shabad Guru'.
---
--

WHEN DID THE HOLY VERSES OF THE GURBANI (WHICH IS ETERNAL TRUTH) BECOME WRONG AND THE MODERN CONCEPT OF GURU BECOME TRUE?

All of you on these sites who profess to be followers of that wonderous Gurudom of Guru Nanakdevji: give up your bigotries, give up Sikhism and embrase SIKHI. Set yourselves on a path of learning rather than teaching, for we are the students, the SIKHS of our great Master: The SATGURU.


THIS IS NOT A MODERN CONCEPT. WE ARE STILL OBEYING DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI'S ORDERS. And this eternal.

and FYI your Guru formed a new sect named NAMDHARI with his own school of thought about Guruship by denying Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's orders. He might had his own reasons, i have no interest in disscussing that..



now you say-

Sikh Naamdhari said:
By Amrit Sanchar, I presume you mean Khande - di - Pahul as administered by the 5 Pyarae to intiate a Sikh into the Khalsa Fold.
This is no different with Namdhari Sikhs. We are given Khande-da-Amrit, prepared by 5 Pyarae whilst reciting:

Japji Sahib
Jaap Sahib
Choupai
10 Sweyae
Anand Sahib

This is then administered to drink with 5 'Choolae', Sprinkled 5 times in the Kesh, 5 times in the eyes whilst repeating 'Wahiguru ji ka Khalsa, Sri Wahiguru ji ki Fathae' each time.
in your original post-
Sikh Naamdhari said:
IF YOU RECIEVE NAAM FROM SOMEONE WHO WEARS THE 5 SHASTER DURING AN AMRIT SANCHAR BUT HAS NO CONNECTION WITH HIS CREATOR OUTSIDE OF THE GURDWARA; WHO WILL TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR SOUL AFTER YOUR DEMISE, HOW CAN YOUR RECITATION OF THAT NAAM BRING YOU SALVATION?

ONLY BY RECEIVING NAAM FROM, OR THROUGH THE ORDER OF, ONE WHO IS IMMERSED IN NAAM HIMSELF 24 HOURS A DAY WITH EACH BREATH, WHO LEADS BY EXAMPLE HOW TO LIVE A LIFE THAT IS COLOURED BY NAAM CAN WE HOPE TO ACHIEVE SALVATION FROM THE CYCLE OF 360,000.
so what you did for the years 1708-1812/1857 ???

my dear brother you have been contradicting your own thoughts over and over again, we can go on and on, but it is useless.

i did ask you to answer a few questions before too, you ignored all that-

here is another one-

Gurbani says-

bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]
baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee anmrith saarae
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.

guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]
gur baanee kehai saevuk jun maanai puruthakh guroo nisuthaarae
If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him.

i know you are not going to believe this either, but anyways i had to bring it up.

Here Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Raam Das Sachey Paatshah Ji says- Bani Guru Hai, Guru Bani Hai and whosoever humbly believes Bani, Bani(GURU) saves that person.
There is no difference in Guru or Guru's Bani. Guru is unlimited. Guru is already mearged with SuperSelf- that's why His words contain AMBROSIAL NECTAAR-AMRIT. AND AMRIT KADI BEHA NAHI HUNDAA....

where are you lost my veer, do you have any clue what you talking about????



it seems to me that you are a confused person, only trying to use your time on some wasteful task.

a person engrossed in Naam(as you claim yourself to be) does productive work, he/she does not waste any single minute .......




Dhan Dhan Siri Guru arjan Dev Ji De Bachan-

pRwnpiq dieAwl purK pRB sKy ]
grB join kil kwl jwl duK ibnwsnu hir rKy ]1] rhwau ]
nwm DwrI srin qyrI ]
pRB dieAwl tyk myrI ]1]
AnwQ dIn AwsvMq ]
nwmu suAwmI mnih mMq ]2]
quJ ibnw pRB ikCU n jwnU ]
srb jug mih qum pCwnU ]3]
hir min bsy inis bwsro ]
goibMd nwnk Awsro ]4]



hir kw nwmu irdY inq iDAweI ]
sMgI swQI sgl qrWeI ]1]
guru myrY sMig sdw hY nwly ]
ismir ismir iqsu sdw sm@wly ]1] rhwau ]
qyrw kIAw mITw lwgY ]
hir nwmu pdwrQu nwnku mWgY ]2]

AMimRq bwxI hir hir qyrI ]
suix suix hovY prm giq myrI ]
jlin buJI sIqlu hoie mnUAw siqgur kw drsnu pwey jIau ]1]
sUKu BieAw duKu dUir prwnw ]
sMq rsn hir nwmu vKwnw ]
jl Ql nIir Bry sr suBr ibrQw koie n jwey jIau ]2]
dieAw DwrI iqin isrjnhwry ]
jIA jMq sgly pRiqpwry ]
imhrvwn ikrpwl dieAwlw sgly iqRpiq AGwey jIau ]3]
vxu iqRxu iqRBvxu kIqonu hirAw ]
krxhwir iKn BIqir kirAw ]
gurmuiK nwnk iqsY ArwDy mn kI Aws pujwey jIau ]4]


Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Amar Das Ji De Bachan


gur sBw eyv n pweIAY nw nyVY nw dUir ]
nwnk siqguru qW imlY jw mnu rhY hdUir ]2]




jy vylw vKqu vIcwrIAY qw ikqu vylw Bgiq hoie ]
Anidnu nwmy riqAw scy scI soie ]
ieku iqlu ipAwrw ivsrY Bgiq iknyhI hoie ]
mnu qnu sIqlu swc isau swsu n ibrQw koie ]1]
myry mn hir kw nwmu iDAwie ]
swcI Bgiq qw QIAY jw hir vsY min Awie ]1] rhwau ]
shjy KyqI rwhIAY scu nwmu bIju pwie ]
KyqI jMmI AglI mnUAw rjw shij suBwie ]
gur kw sbdu AMimRqu hY ijqu pIqY iqK jwie ]
iehu mnu swcw sic rqw scy rihAw smwie ]2]
AwKxu vyKxu bolxw sbdy rihAw smwie ]
bwxI vjI chu jugI sco scu suxwie ]
haumY myrw rih gieAw scY lieAw imlwie ]
iqn kau mhlu hdUir hY jo sic rhy ilv lwie ]3]
ndrI nwmu iDAweIAY ivxu krmw pwieAw n jwie ]
pUrY Bwig sqsMgiq lhY sqguru BytY ijsu Awie ]
Anidnu nwmy riqAw duKu ibiKAw ivchu jwie ]
nwnk sbid imlwvVw nwmy nwim smwie ]4]






forgive me please
 
Apr 20, 2006
80
4
Surinder Kaur Bhenji, and Aad0002

From your posts it is becoming clear that you don't have even basic knowledge about how and why Namdhari Sikhs continue to be. You have become so engrossed in trying to prove me wrong that instead of trying to understand what Namdharis believe and why (the original requests from you), you are trying to (and succeeding) in engaging me in futile arguments.

I have repeatedly tried to tell you that I am not here to convert anyone. But you have WRONGLY ESTABLISHED the belief that I am a missionary out to destroy your faith, therefore you need to defend it by attacking everything I say.
If this is the way we are going to continue, then I see no reason for me to remain here. I am trying to tell you what Namdhari Sikhs practice and believe. You retaliate with accusations and arguments that are arguments for the sake of arguing.

Surinder Bhenji, you seem to have a wealth of resources from Gurbani that you keep posting at the press of a button. Unfortunately I don't have Gurmukhi Fonts on my computer, so thus far I have no idea what you are posting when you quote Gurbani.

I am not contradicting myself in any way, shape or form, you simply aren't understanding where I am coming from. This can be due either to a lack of basic knowledge and understanding of Sikhi and it's origins, or you are deliberately trying to cloud over everything I say by posing ridiculous questions.

Guru Nanak Devji was a Human Guru, was He not? Or wasn't He a Guru. I notice that Aad0003 is even omitting the word 'Guru' from his/her posts. It's not 'Nanakji' It's Guru Nanak Devji.

IS THIS THE NEXT EVOLUTIONARY STAGE FOR YOUR VERSION OF SIKHI? TO OMIT THE WORD 'GURU' FROM THE NAMES OF THE FIRST 10 HUMAN GURUS THAT EVEN YOUR PARENTS BELIEVED TO BE GURUS? AND DENY THEM THEIR SUFFIX NAMES OF 'DEV'? OH! I GET IT, DOES IT SOUND TOO HINDUVTA!!!!?
MY GOD, WHERE WILL THIS CORRUPTION STOP, I WONDER?

THE GURBANI IS FULL OF SHABADS THAT TELL US OF THE BLESSINGS IN THE DARSHAN OF THE LIVING HUMAN GURU. THESE SHABADS WERE COMPOSED BY LIVING HUMAN GURUS, IN PRAISE OF THEIR LIVING HUMAN GURUS. GURU ANGAD DEVJI COMPOSED SHABADS IN PRAISE OF GURU NANAK DEVJI. GURU AMARDASSJI COMPOSED SHABADS IN PRAISE OF GURU ANGAD DEVJI. GURU RAMDASSJI IN PRAISE OF GURU AMARDASSJI. GURU ARJUN DEVJI COMPOSED IN PRAISE OF GURU RAMDASSJI.

WHEN THE SATGURU SPEAKS HIS WORDS ARE SWEET.
'MITH BOLERRAJI HARI SAJANNu SWAMI MORA,
HAU SAMAL THAKEE JEE, OHu KADAI NA BOLEI KAURRA,
KAURRA BOLI NA JAANEI, POORAN BHAGVAANAI,
AUGANu KO NA CHITAARAE...' Aadh Guru Granth Sahib.

All of our Human Gurus saw their Predecessors as God's Sargun Form.
This is not a evolutionary belief. This is Sanatan belief. It is a belief that is ROCK SOLID THROUGHOUT the whole of Gurbani:
Aap Naarain kaladhaar Jag mei parvario.

I have said this before and I will say it again. You guys CHOOSE to ignore these Commands from Gurbani.

Therein lies YOUR confusion and what you presume to be 'contradictions within Gurbani'. Hint, hint Bhenji! ;)

The Shabad is LITERALLY a SPOKEN WORD. It requires a Human tongue to speak it!
When a HUMAN GURU HAS SPOKEN it becomes GURBANI. What is so confusing or contradictory about that?

baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee anmrith saarae
gur baanee kehai saevuk jun maanai puruthakh guroo nisuthaarae

I have already explained this in another post. Either hunt it down yourself or I can, when I get time!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sachchasoda

SPNer
Mar 19, 2007
59
2
The Shabad is LITERALLY a SPOKEN WORD. It requires a Human tongue to speak it!
When a HUMAN GURU HAS SPOKEN it becomes GURBANI. What is so confusing or contradictory about that?

Saadhsangat ji,

and a word spoken by Guru Ji is amrit/precious, it doesnt loose its importance a bit with time. it is not subject to time.

it is dhur ki bani....... human tounge is a result of rajas guna of maya and our gurus words are not merely subject to that. our gurus are way beyond all this. like other sangat is saying LIMITLESS. a true saints word cannot be limited to a body and a mouth made of flesh. if you look back at naamdhari tradition- baba balak mahant had the appearance of a guru who left his physical body some hundred years ago. so what was that, why Guru Gobind Singh Ji hadn't told anybody about this fact (ssumption of naamdhari sect)while He was in His Human Abode. naamdhari bro please get out of this illusion.

there are many other saints and philosophers who are using Gurbani from SGGS Ji -to prove their point; to make people understand spiritualty; use mantras from gurbani and all other things to expand their spirituality.

Surinder Kaur Bhenji, and Aad0002

From your posts it is becoming clear that you don't have even basic knowledge about how and why Namdhari Sikhs continue to be. You have become so engrossed in trying to prove me wrong that instead of trying to understand what Namdharis believe and why (the original requests from you), you are trying to (and succeeding) in engaging me in futile arguments.

I have repeatedly tried to tell you that I am not here to convert anyone. But you have WRONGLY ESTABLISHED the belief that I am a missionary out to destroy your faith, therefore you need to defend it by attacking everything I say.
If this is the way we are going to continue, then I see no reason for me to remain here. I am trying to tell you what Namdhari Sikhs practice and believe. You retaliate with accusations and arguments that are arguments for the sake of arguing.

Surinder Bhenji, you seem to have a wealth of resources from Gurbani that you keep posting at the press of a button. Unfortunately I don't have Gurmukhi Fonts on my computer, so thus far I have no idea what you are posting when you quote Gurbani.

I am not contradicting myself in any way, shape or form, you simply aren't understanding where I am coming from. This can be due either to a lack of basic knowledge and understanding of Sikhi and it's origins, or you are deliberately trying to cloud over everything I say by posing ridiculous questions.

Guru Nanak Devji was a Human Guru, was He not? Or wasn't He a Guru. I notice that Aad0003 is even omitting the word 'Guru' from his/her posts. It's not 'Nanakji' It's Guru Nanak Devji.

IS THIS THE NEXT EVOLUTIONARY STAGE FOR YOUR VERSION OF SIKHI? TO OMIT THE WORD 'GURU' FROM THE NAMES OF THE FIRST 10 HUMAN GURUS THAT EVEN YOUR PARENTS BELIEVED TO BE GURUS? AND DENY THEM THEIR SUFFIX NAMES OF 'DEV'? OH! I GET IT, DOES IT SOUND TOO HINDUVTA!!!!?
MY GOD, WHERE WILL THIS CORRUPTION STOP, I WONDER?

THE GURBANI IS FULL OF SHABADS THAT TELL US OF THE BLESSINGS IN THE DARSHAN OF THE LIVING HUMAN GURU. THESE SHABADS WERE COMPOSED BY LIVING HUMAN GURUS, IN PRAISE OF THEIR LIVING HUMAN GURUS. GURU ANGAD DEVJI COMPOSED SHABADS IN PRAISE OF GURU NANAK DEVJI. GURU AMARDASSJI COMPOSED SHABADS IN PRAISE OF GURU ANGAD DEVJI. GURU RAMDASSJI IN PRAISE OF GURU AMARDASSJI. GURU ARJUN DEVJI COMPOSED IN PRAISE OF GURU RAMDASSJI.

WHEN THE SATGURU SPEAKS HIS WORDS ARE SWEET.
'MITH BOLERRAJI HARI SAJANNu SWAMI MORA,
HAU SAMAL THAKEE JEE, OHu KADAI NA BOLEI KAURRA,
KAURRA BOLI NA JAANEI, POORAN BHAGVAANAI,
AUGANu KO NA CHITAARAE...' Aadh Guru Granth Sahib.

All of our Human Gurus saw their Predecessors as God's Sargun Form.
This is not a evolutionary belief. This is Sanatan belief. It is a belief that is ROCK SOLID THROUGHOUT the whole of Gurbani:
Aap Naarain kaladhaar Jag mei parvario.

I have said this before and I will say it again. You guys CHOOSE to ignore these Commands from Gurbani.

Therein lies YOUR confusion and what you presume to be 'contradictions within Gurbani'. Hint, hint Bhenji! ;)

naamdhari bro this above writing and all the other writings of yours convey in a nutshell that Amrit Dhari Sikhs- Khalsa that declared by Guru Gobind Singh Ji is WRONG AND IS UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU.

so far i haven't found a single line where you accepted Sikhs as Sikhs.
you claim only Naamdhari(which is a sect created in 1857) is Sikhi
all i am reading in your posts- 'sikhs are doing everything wrong'.
you plainly say- human guru is the only right concept.
you totally ignore when questioned about this concept.

DOESN'T THIS MAKE YOU A TRUE SOLID MISSIONARY TRYING TO PROVE OTHERS WRONG.
so that you can make everybody think like naamdharis.
naamdharis, who already had declared themselves a seperate religion a long time back.
just to let you know there are NO CONTRADICTIONS WITHIN GURBANI
Contradictions are created by all those people who had been trying to prove us wrong.
this never worked before and never will bro naamdhari.
and the way you guys are trying this guru in human body concept- if we start believing this concept coming out of all those mouths(claiming themselves to be the real guru's)-we will have at least 500 gurus in India, 50 gurus in England, 100 gurusin USA, 70 gurus in Canada and 150 altogether from all the other countries. :roll:

WE ARE CONTENT WITH WHAT WE HAVE, WE DON'T NEED THIS JUNGLE OF GURUS.

bro naamdhari you remind me of jehovah's witnesses, who don't stop coming to our door even after thousands of their visits have gone to a total waste:{-:)


OUR GURU IS FOREVER AND WITH US FOREVER

a piece of advise for naamdhari bro-

you are making khalsa even more strong
your are giving a very bad advertisement of Naamdharies
i think everybody on this forum know by now what your real purpose is- TIME PASS
 
Last edited by a moderator:

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
Respected Veer Naamdhari ji,

endless thanks to you for clearing everybody's doubts completely.

everybody know now that you are a missionary sent by whosoever to denounce Sikhi.


this thread worked for the best of all, thanks to drkhalsa ji, he made a good effort by starting this discussion.



forgive me please
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,204
Dear Sikh Namdhari ji

Do you take the hukamnama every day? :) If you do you will know that the hukam always ends with a plea to Nanaak. Not to "Guru" Nanaak. Nanaak knows.

Respectfully
 
Apr 20, 2006
80
4
Dear Sikh Namdhari ji

Do you take the hukamnama every day? :) If you do you will know that the hukam always ends with a plea to Nanaak. Not to "Guru" Nanaak. Nanaak knows.

Respectfully
Respected Aad002
The appearance of the Name of Guru Nanak Devji is NOT a plea. It is written by Guruji Himself refering to Himself. When His successors wrote 'Nanak' they wrote it because they considered themselves to be His Jyot. It is a message to us that They were no different to 'Guru' Nanak Devji.

It is traditional to sign off a composition ending the last line with the name of the author. Just as Kabirji ends all of His Sabads with 'Kabir'. Naamdevji ends His with 'Nama' or 'Namae'. Even today a lot of poets who write poetry will end their poems by addressing themselves in the last stanza.
 
Apr 20, 2006
80
4
Surinder Kaur Bhenji, and Sachchasodaji

Respected Veer Naamdhari ji,

endless thanks to you for clearing everybody's doubts completely.

everybody know now that you are a missionary sent by whosoever to denounce Sikhi.


this thread worked for the best of all, thanks to drkhalsa ji, he made a good effort by starting this discussion.
so far i haven't found a single line where you accepted Sikhs as Sikhs.
you claim only Naamdhari(which is a sect created in 1857) is Sikhi
all i am reading in your posts- 'sikhs are doing everything wrong'.
you plainly say- human guru is the only right concept.
you totally ignore when questioned about this concept.

DOESN'T THIS MAKE YOU A TRUE SOLID MISSIONARY TRYING TO PROVE OTHERS WRONG.
so that you can make everybody think like naamdharis.
naamdharis, who already had declared themselves a seperate religion a long time back.
just to let you know there are NO CONTRADICTIONS WITHIN GURBANI
Contradictions are created by all those people who had been trying to prove us wrong.
this never worked before and never will bro naamdhari.
and the way you guys are trying this guru in human body concept- if we start believing this concept coming out of all those mouths(claiming themselves to be the real guru's)-we will have at least 500 gurus in India, 50 gurus in England, 100 gurusin USA, 70 gurus in Canada and 150 altogether from all the other countries. :roll:

WE ARE CONTENT WITH WHAT WE HAVE, WE DON'T NEED THIS JUNGLE OF GURUS.

bro naamdhari you remind me of jehovah's witnesses, who don't stop coming to our door even after thousands of their visits have gone to a total waste:{-:)


OUR GURU IS FOREVER AND WITH US FOREVER

a piece of advise for naamdhari bro-

you are making khalsa even more strong
your are giving a very bad advertisement of Naamdharies
i think everybody on this forum know by now what your real purpose is- TIME PASS

Is this the limit of your understanding, people? When all else fails, resort to personal attack? I keep telling you why I am writing on here. I have not been 'sent' by anyone. Any more than you guys, who have started this debate have been 'sent'!. (OR HAVE YOU?)
So if you still can't see beyond your limited vision, and continue to ignore that chapter of history and Gurbani which has enabled you to remain Sikhs, then that is your loss. May you have success in your lives, and may Satguru give you vision to refrain from slander. I no longer wish to remain amongst fools.
 
Feb 15, 2006
512
18
Bhainji Surinder Kaur Ji wrote, "Respected Veer Naamdhari ji,

endless thanks to you for clearing everybody's doubts completely.

everybody know now that you are a missionary sent by whosoever to denounce Sikhi..."
Naamdhari Missionary wrote: "So if you still can't see beyond your limited vision (belief in orthodox mainstream Sikhism),

and continue to ignore that chapter of history and Gurbani which has enabled you to remain Sikhs(Naamdhari distortions of Gurbani and "suppressed" history of 150 year old Guru Gobind Singh and secret transmission of Gurgaddi to somebody named Balak Singh 200 years AFTER Gurgaddi to ShabadGuru Ji Maharaaj.),

then that is your loss (I am so not sad).

May you have success in your lives, and may Satguru (Jagjit Singh Naamdhari: His guru is being forced endlessly to be our Guru Ji like a missionary despite thousand rejections)

give you vision to refrain from slander (Slander is something untrue. You are proving repeatedly the truth.)

I no longer wish to remain amongst fools.":whisling:
Dear Naamdhari Missionary,

You lost your Sikh audience when you acknowledged Naamdhari version of Sikhi is a sect of sanatan Hindu dharam. Please stop trying to convert Sikhs. The cow is already so dead. Please stop beating it.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,204
To Sikh Namdhari, and all Namdhari!

nwnk Aaugux jyqVy qyqy glI jMjIr
jy gux hoin q ktIAin sy BweI sy vIr
AgY gey n mMnIAin mwir kFhu vypIr

Feel Satgur within you. That is my most fervent wish.
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
So if you still can't see beyond your limited vision, and continue to ignore that chapter of history and Gurbani which has enabled you to remain Sikhs, then that is your loss. May you have success in your lives, and may Satguru give you vision to refrain from slander. I no longer wish to remain amongst fools.

Respected Veer Naamdhari Ji,

we fools are also the creation of the Same One who created you. don't worry about us. Guru's grace/God's grace is equal to all. May He provide you with the access to the 'power of tolerance for others', so you are able to accept others as they are.

forgive me please
 

rosethorne

SPNer
Aug 13, 2005
148
1
45
New Delhi
Dear Khalsa ji, I want to say that Singhs are fool surely because they have given the purest of themselves when anybody need them. Our Gurus Martydom, our Gursikhs Martydom are there because singhs are fool. Naamdhari ji saying it by meaning why to become a shaheed if there are very good bunglows and Cars are there to enjoy. Naamdhaari's guru Jagjeet Singhji is going on the path of OSHO not on Guru Nanak's Path. That is the real difference thats why we ignore Naamdharis.
naamdharis are claiming as Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj Himself given Guru Gadhi to some Balak Singh, Then pls clarify this why not they came together with Khalsa Panth, They Can't because they daree to do cause they know Singhs are close to AKAL and they know the facts. Actually Naamdharis Can't become Guru Granth Sahib's Gursikhs because they are taking shelter of SGGS Maharaj ji for their Guru's Extravagent life. Guru Granth Saheb Ji is unquestionably and certainly Our Everlasting Guru.
 
Feb 11, 2011
19
20
Just read this REALLY OLD thread and once again the Namdhari intellectually DESTROYED everyone. Hilarious. I'm not a Namdhari but I respect them and this thread made me respect at least one of them even more. That was a mind slaughter. No games,no tricks. He just simply laid out answers and had everyone scrambling and nervously holding tight to their notions of truth, afraid,cold and pathetic yet they didn't even know it. Great internet forum. SPN has some beauty on it and the unorthodox surely will shine the brightest. Can't wait to dig deeper.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
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JyotiSingh ji

After reading your reactions I did give some thought to them and felt the need to reply. In order to take the comments of Sikh Namdhari seriously two things have to be considered.

1) is he really a Namdhari Sikh? Some forum members thought not. Rather that he was/is a wind-up artist. Some of the things he has said elsewhere are not typical of Namdhari Sikhs.
2) Namdhari Sikhs accept a human guru, contrary to the instructions of Guru Gobind Singh that the Guru Granth is our final and everlasting guru. Namdharis are free to believe what they want, however, for Sikh Namdhari to take aim over and over again suggests that he was here to wind people up and not to have a thoughtful discussion.

We now have included in our terms of service that one may not undermine the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The change to TOS came about because of these sorts of debates where the most fundamental beliefs of Sikhism are challenged.
 
Feb 11, 2011
19
20
Re-writing this....I think he was a Namdhari posting on a site dedicated to 'orthodox' Sikhism.Alternate opinions are not welcome here or anywhere because belief is inflexible. I personally have doubt that Guru Gobind Singh made the Guru Manyo Granth comment. Though I'm not a Namdhari yet there has been no instance when anyone has ever given me real evidence that he said those words so I can identify with the possible Naamdhari because he and other Namdharis have something to back their claim. This isn't the place to get into it but I still think that at least in this thread nobody had any defense. They were attached to beliefs and that can be dangerous and people use those beliefs to kill others and in this case it's the mainstream doing the killing not the ones who are questioning them.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,204
JyotiSingh ji

If you hold to this line of argument
I personally have doubt that Guru Gobind Singh made the Guru Manyo Granth comment.
then you are questioning a fundamental tenet of Sikhism. Plain and simple. You are entitled to your opinion, but what ever your opinion turns out to be, it is not relevant to a discussion of Sikhi. The other thing I would like to point out is that Sikh Namdari at one time could be found tagging after one of the individuals who was engaged in argument with him here. On several sites. Wherever he found her, he began to needle her. Take my word for it. :)
 

Randip Singh

Writer
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May 25, 2005
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Just read this REALLY OLD thread and once again the Namdhari intellectually DESTROYED everyone. Hilarious. I'm not a Namdhari but I respect them and this thread made me respect at least one of them even more. That was a mind slaughter. No games,no tricks. He just simply laid out answers and had everyone scrambling and nervously holding tight to their notions of truth, afraid,cold and pathetic yet they didn't even know it. Great internet forum. SPN has some beauty on it and the unorthodox surely will shine the brightest. Can't wait to dig deeper.

I don't think that fellow destroyed anything. Quite pathetic really.

I could have posed questions to him, like why their Guru does not permit women to wear Kirpans?

Why he thinks the colours of Safron and Blue are below him?

What is the purpose of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ? Lets tear it up?

The absurdity of him thinking that their first Guru met Guru Gobind Singh when Guru Gobind was something like 200 years old?

Why they think being vegetarian is a must?

Why they don't drink water from a tap?

More absurdeties, but I really could not be bothered.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Jul 4, 2004
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sometimes we need to remove our green glasses..or we continue to see Green light even when its the TOP MOST light shining at the Traffic lights.

Anecdote: Akbar's son Jehangir was a most handsome and adorable toddler. Akbar literally adored him like no one lese could. One day he called out to the MAID and told her..Go bring me the ..MOST HANDSOME BABY in the WORLD !! Shorlty the Maid returned carrying a scruffy looking child, wearing torn clothes, and nose full of filth...and tried to hand him over to the Emperor..Here is the Most Handsome Baby in the World Maharaj..she said. WHAT ?? screamed Akbar..take away this piece of filth..are you MAD ?? NO Maharaj..I am NOT mad..this is MY SON and to me hes the most handsome baby in the entire world. I would give my life for him. Akbar was DUMBSTRUCK....and only managed..I meant Jehangir be brought to me...HA Ha Ha Namdhari the destroyer..yes indeed !! just like Conan the Destroyer !!....sometimes we live in a make beleive world of Hollywood/Bollywood and the "destroyer" really looks quite REAL !!japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
3,380
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Just read this REALLY OLD thread and once again the Namdhari intellectually DESTROYED everyone. Hilarious. I'm not a Namdhari but I respect them and this thread made me respect at least one of them even more. That was a mind slaughter. No games,no tricks. He just simply laid out answers and had everyone scrambling and nervously holding tight to their notions of truth, afraid,cold and pathetic yet they didn't even know it. Great internet forum. SPN has some beauty on it and the unorthodox surely will shine the brightest. Can't wait to dig deeper.
JyotSingh ji I think you perhaps are not reading thoroughly. It was good Theatrics by Namdhari but not much more.

Sikhs are not against peace with other religions and you don't need a Guru to achieve that. Otherwise you will have to start calling President Barack Obama Guru Barack Obama as he was awarded the "Noble Peace Prize". So if such is the basic argument of Namdhari Gurus deviant plans in the land of the Hindu which kind of praises and subscribes to "Hum Sabh Hindu Hain", i.e. "We are all Hindus", then the day is not far when "Hindu, Hindi and Hindustan" will swallow Namdharis too. Their praise of these people and getting reverse praise from such a majority is plain and simple selfishness and if it is coming from their leader it is even worse.

The strength of Sikhi's is such that people with even partial knowledge of it if they look like a Sardar/Sikh can open up a Derah and the followers or Hindus or Hindu like weakling Sikhs, Muslims, Christians will start showing up. This has happened time and again across the world and will continue to happen.

Namdhari statements are nothing more than veiled Hindu beliefs garlanded with few stanzas from Gurbani with out of context quoting.

Examples below,

"All our sufferings and pleasures are us reaping the fruits of seeds sown in past lives."

(http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-groups-cults/15187-discussion-on-naamdhari-sikhs-3.html#post53081)



  • The above is the fundamental concept in Hinduism to enshrine Caste System as well as put Brahmins/Pundits and so called Gurus at Centre Stage to exploit the vulnerable. You can shop for,
    • Salvation
    • Remove curses
    • Seek miracles
    • Get sons or daughters of your choice
    • Get your life written out in Kundlis
    • .....
    • Pretty large Menu so to say in this "Shopping Complex"
      • Franchises available to close minded people who are ready to fleece the vulnerable.
    • Life is pretty good with this franchise
"Namdhari Sikhs are the descendants of those Sikhs to whom Guru Gobind Singhji gave Darshan to AFTER 1708 and who cannot deny his living on after that date!

History tells us that Guruji gave Darshan to two Sadhus who were collecting wood in the jungle. He was galloping full stride on His horse when they saw Him. He ordered them to go and tell the weeping Sikhs that He had not died, but was still alive and with them. Even non-Namdhari history acknowledges this much!"

(http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-groups-cults/15187-discussion-on-naamdhari-sikhs-4.html#post53096)


  • Wow, what a wonderful movement
    • Two Sadhus got a vision to start a business.
      • Basis Chamatkar
        • Hindusism (Gods and Godesses) and other Son of God religions
        • Higly rejected by Gurus that Namdhari believe in on paper (Guru Nanak Dev ji to Guru Gobind Singh ji)
      • Live person who has previously passed away long time ago shows up and asks two Sadhus to save the world
        • Really such a powerful person could not do by self
          • Perhaps the Sadhus were high on something!
  • Not bad now you have,
      • Gurus or Chairman of the Board for this enterprise forever
    • You get people to get Baptized in like fashion to Sikh Rehat Maryada but not totally agreeing,
      • So you have Kirpan (Sword) wearing body Guards (not bad)
May have some redeeming value (at a stretch) but in the West they will call it "A Fraud".

JyotSingh ji, you go to a Namdhari assembly, or better still go talk to the latest Namdhari Guru and ask these questions openly and see how many swords stay within their Sheathslol.

Enjoy below the Shabad specially written for the Guru and literal Hindu names emphasis examples and references to Bhai Kahan Singh shabads as Gurbani and continuation of Guru Kingdom of Namdharis including references to doing Havans, 125000 paths, etc.

YouTube - Sri Satguru jagjit Singh ji WwW.punjabi-tadka.CoM Part2

YouTube - Darshan Satguru jagjit singh ji on 27th June 2010 part 1

YouTube - Namdhari Hawan

Sat Sri Akal.japposatnamwaheguru:
 

sachbol

SPNer
Feb 12, 2010
97
146
77
All Sikhs follow Sri Guru Granth Saheb and Bani of Guru Saheban but all those who follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji may not be Sikhs.
Sri Guru Granth Saheb is for all , not for Sikhs alone. These sects can not be called Sikh sects. Sikh religion has just one sect.
these sects or so called Sikh sects are actually different religions. No they are not Sikhs. I had seen on You Tube : One baba from
a well known so called Sikh sect was getting his feet washed and ladies were drinking that water from his feet. You may carry on
with this as it is your belief but sorry, We refuse to accept this Baba as Sikh Sant.
 

Jawand Singh

SPNer
Sep 2, 2011
1
1
27
There is no mutual exchange of ideas. Naamdharis are pakhandis who follow a different lineage of gurus not accepted in Sikhi. they are not Sikhs, and because they insist to be so, they do beadbi of ShabadGuru Maharaj when they bow to dedhari guru. There is no discussion and no debate on this point.



"satguru" Jagjit Singh Namdhari receiving paycheck from CM Badal, SAD/RSS-BJP.






Why would any Sikh support this position of VHP? Why is the dedhari guru of Namdharis publically in the VHP-BJP-RSS camp as representative of a "sect" of Hindu society? Why is he participating in a fascist Hindutva organization with anti-Gurmat aims? Naamdharis are clearly Hindus. This is the end of discussion.
harjas ji can u tell me the saroop of dhan shri AAD GRANTH SAHIB JI to which SATGURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ GIVE GURGADDI and also in Mahan Kosh written by Shri Kahn Singh Ji Nabha Accepted that guru ji physical life journey was not end in Nanded First u tell me humbly the answer of these and also the meaning of khalsa
 

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This shabad is on Ang 201. It is one that is frequently taught early on in kirtan classes to children but the meaning never explained but is quite a simple shabad. As previously, literal English...

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