Dancing And Gurbani

[Archived_Member4]

ਨਾਨਾ ਰੂਪ ਜਿਉ ਸ੍ਵਾਗੀ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ॥
नाना रूप जिउ स्वागी दिखावै ॥
Nānā rūp ji▫o savāgī ḏikẖāvai.
In various costumes, like actors, they appear.
ਜਿਉ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਨਚਾਵੈ ॥
जिउ प्रभ भावै तिवै नचावै ॥
Ji▫o parabẖ bẖāvai ṯivai nacẖāvai.
As it pleases God, they dance.
ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਹੋਇ ॥
जो तिसु भावै सोई होइ ॥
Jo ṯis bẖāvai so▫ī ho▫e.
Whatever pleases Him, comes to pass.
ਨਾਨਕ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੭॥
नानक दूजा अवरु न कोइ ॥७॥
Nānak ḏūjā avar na ko▫e. ||7||
O Nanak, there is no other at all. ||7||

Would we still be dancing if it had not pleased Him?

Here Guru Sahib is not talking about the physical act of dancing. The word dance is used as a metaphor here.

 

[Archived_Member4]

I go into a state of euphoria when ever I contemplate about it (Aarti). My mind becomes to happy that its hard not jumping for joy after receiving this treasure! And when its coupled with a beautiful composition, it just gets better and better.

Aad ji explain me your steps for meditation, I will try them.

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥
माझ महला ३ ॥
Mājẖ mėhlā 3.
Maajh, Third Mehl:
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਮਿਲਾਏ ਆਪੇ ॥
गुरमुखि मिलै मिलाए आपे ॥
Gurmukẖ milai milā▫e āpe.
The Gurmukhs meet the Lord, and inspire others to meet Him as well.
ਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਜੋਹੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਸੰਤਾਪੇ ॥
कालु न जोहै दुखु न संतापे ॥
Kāl na johai ḏukẖ na sanṯāpe.
Death does not see them, and pain does not afflict them.
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਬੰਧਨ ਸਭ ਤੋੜੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥
हउमै मारि बंधन सभ तोड़ै गुरमुखि सबदि सुहावणिआ ॥१॥
Ha▫umai mār banḏẖan sabẖ ṯoṛai gurmukẖ sabaḏ suhāvaṇi▫ā. ||1||
Subduing egotism, they break all their bonds; as Gurmukh, they are adorned with the Word of the Shabad. ||1||
ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਿਆ ॥
हउ वारी जीउ वारी हरि हरि नामि सुहावणिआ ॥
Ha▫o vārī jī▫o vārī har har nām suhāvaṇi▫ā.
I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who look beautiful in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਚੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुरमुखि गावै गुरमुखि नाचै हरि सेती चितु लावणिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gurmukẖ gāvai gurmukẖ nācẖai har seṯī cẖiṯ lāvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Gurmukhs sing, the Gurmukhs dance, and focus their consciousness on the Lord. ||1||Pause||

Guru Sahib is not talking about the physical act of dance here. Dance is used as a metaphor.

 

[spnadmin]

Forum guidelines require me to note: Another good thread is going around in circles as the same ideas are repeated over and over again. Later I will check and start a new direction if another member has not already done so by then. Maybe that will help. Otherwise the thread will be closed as it is going downhill at this point.

 

[susan]

I am open to advice. Singh Ji next time I listen to Keertan i will try to listen beyond the instruments,to see if i feel that level of bliss as you have described.
Thank you.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Aad ji I dont think the thread is going in circles. In fact, the last Hair/Baal thread wasn't either.

Singh ji you have failed to show how thats a metaphor. Simply stating something is a metaphor is not going to help. If it really IS is a metaphor what is it being compared to?
I could say the same for meditation, that meditation is also a metaphor.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Aad ji I dont think the thread is going in circles. In fact, the last Hair/Baal thread wasn't either.

Singh ji you have failed to show how thats a metaphor. Simply stating something is a metaphor is going to help. If it really IS is a metaphor what is it being compared to?
I could say the same for meditation, that meditation is also a metaphor.

Look you presented the shabds so go into detail what they are saying. If I had presented the shabds, which I wouldn't have, but if I did I would go into detail what they mean.

So start sharing your understanding on the shabds. It's on you to explain since you presented them.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Question ofr MODS:
Um, Aad ji why is Singh ji never warned for using arguments against the person?

Any person that considers Gurbani the highest authority will agree with me your definition of dancing is useless in this discussion.

Buddy, the whole discussion is based on my definition! Who started the thread again?

To get up and physically start dancing to kirtan is not gurmat. If it was then Guru Sahibs would have done it themselves when kirtan was playing.

There could be other reasons why they never did such a thing. maybe they did not prefer to dance. Noone is saying its gurmat, not everything we know is gurmat. But its not AGAINST the teachings of Guru Sahibs. If it was then we would raise doubt.
For example, painting can be considered a form of meditation, yet its NOT gurmat. It does the exact samething as kirtan, it relaxes you.

If someone does dance to kirtan then its an act showing I am attached to the sound of the instrument and the Gurbani that is being sung,

Um how about dancing aftering reading Gurbani? Am I showing attachment to the computer screen or the words? or the internet on which the gurbani is desplayed on?
If someone dances to kirtan they could be enjoying the gurbani. They could very well be enjoying the music as well, what's the problem in that?
So attachment to "sound of instrument" is bad? How about attachment to "words in SGGS"?

which puts you in a relaxed state where you don't dance,

No it doesn't necessarily have to. If something makes you feel extremely happy instead of relaxed, you WILL jump up and down!

The rass of a shabad sung in kirtan never made the Guru Sahibs dance and they had raas from the shabad, which is unexplainable.

Perhaps they were singing the shabad themselves.
So if this raas is UNEXPLAINABLE and then who knows how you could behave in its presence. It never made Guru Sahib dance but if itmakes other people do so, what is the problem in that?
Perhaps they experienced a diferent rass.

The reasons make perfect sense, its acceptance of the conclusion you can't grasp

i was talking about what you had said earlier. If you have difficulty following someone's post then its OK to ask for clarification.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Look you presented the shabds so go into detail what they are saying. If I had presented the shabds, which I wouldn't have, but if I did I would go into detail what they mean.

So start sharing your understanding on the shabds. It's on you to explain since you presented them.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਚੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुरमुखि गावै गुरमुखि नाचै हरि सेती चितु लावणिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gurmukẖ gāvai gurmukẖ nācẖai har seṯī cẖiṯ lāvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Gurmukhs sing, the Gurmukhs dance, and focus their consciousness on the Lord. ||1||Pause||

That is self explanatory. They sing, dance and meditate.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Bhagt Singh Ji,

Imho the "dancing" is a metaphor...As in..The Obama Secretary of State "dances" to the Bush Tune !!
Wrapping one around ones little finger....control..make one dance as in a puppet show..its the pupeteer..the CREATOR holding the strings...Mrs Obama may have her hubby wrapped around her little finger and he may be "dancing" to her tune....ITS NOT PHYSICAL.

Imho i dont see any need to "compare".... the dancing is simply "OBEYING" and it is like "running" our lives...we are not physically "running" like using our legs to push aginst the ground..and up and down motion...the BODY can be seated still..but our LIFE can still be "RUNNING"/RUN By someone else..here by the CREATOR..the pupeteer..the Maker..the Big Boss ....

I agree with you....this and the other thread on hair are NOT going round in circles....its some contributors who are chasing their tails..afraid of "losing" the final AAAhaha moment. Its ok..its human nature...each one wants to have the "LAST WORD"...some more than others....so once they have said their piece...they write..OK Ji..LETS CLOSE THIS THREAD ( meaning I Have nothing more to say/add !!)..but this world..its knowledge..is like a circle..no beginning..no end....So and So may have exhausted his/her resources..but a new day brings the same sun..but not necessarily the same sunshine...i hope i am making sense ???

It also begins to look that way because, we as the "REGULARS"...see the same arguments day in and day out...it begins to look like circles..BUT..we forget that the very nature of such Forums as SPN..where no one really knows who may suddenly wake up...and hit a bright spark..all of a sudden...and set the fireworks going again....all just when all the regulars were yawning away..and preparing to mutter Good Night everyone... The SHOW must go on..and it really does..in spite of us and despite us...

Cordially:happy:

 

[BhagatSingh]

SO in that sentence if dance is a metaphor, is singing and meditating also a metaphor?

 

[BhagatSingh]

"Imho i dont see any need to "compare".... the dancing is simply "OBEYING" and it is like "running" our lives...we are not physically "running" like using our legs to push aginst the ground..and up and down motion...the BODY can be seated still..but our LIFE can still be "RUNNING"/RUN By someone else..here by the CREATOR..the pupeteer..the Maker..the Big Boss ...."

Jarnail Singh ji (in addition ot reply above)
A metapor is a comparison.
"She is a princess."
meaning she is being compared to a princess.

When gurbani says Gurmukhs sing, dance and meditate, what is that being compared to?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The Gurmukhs...Gaveh."SING"...His praises..means they FOLLOW Him....
Just like to "Sing the praises of Sonia Gandhi among her partymembers woudl be actions that she wants/desires followed".....
In this case Gurmukhs...follow the HUKM of the Creator...ar happy no matter what...
Gurmukh Nacheh.."Dance"..... again the same thing..they Dance to the Creator's Tune...His HUKM is Paramount....in their Lives...
Har seti CHIT lavanniah...to be absorbed in HIS "presence"..His HUKM..His WAY..
THIS is the PRACTICAL MARYADA GURBANI REHIT teaches us....
NO Physical singing/dancing/ may be necessary...but it certainly entails "MOULDING our DAILY LIVES AND ACTIONS"..according to His HUKM...imho thats when we sing his praises..dance to his tune..and think/dwell upon Him.
:welcome:

 

[spnadmin]

The Gurmukhs...Gaveh."SING"...His praises..means they FOLLOW Him....
Just like to "Sing the praises of Sonia Gandhi among her partymembers woudl be actions that she wants/desires followed".....
In this case Gurmukhs...follow the HUKM of the Creator...ar happy no matter what...
Gurmukh Nacheh.."Dance"..... again the same thing..they Dance to the Creator's Tune...His HUKM is Paramount....in their Lives...
Har seti CHIT lavanniah...to be absorbed in HIS "presence"..His HUKM..His WAY..
THIS is the PRACTICAL MARYADA GURBANI REHIT teaches us....
NO Physical singing/dancing/ may be necessary...but it certainly entails "MOULDING our DAILY LIVES AND ACTIONS"..according to His HUKM...imho thats when we sing his praises..dance to his tune..and think/dwell upon Him.
:welcome:

I never thought of it that way.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Question ofr MODS:
Um, Aad ji why is Singh ji never warned for using arguments against the person?


Buddy, the whole discussion is based on my definition! Who started the thread again?

Your fighting a lost battle. Any Sikh knows Gurbani is highest authority.

There could be other reasons why they never did such a thing. maybe they did not prefer to dance.

What are the other reason(s)? And why didn’t they prefer to dance?

Noone is saying its gurmat, not everything we know is gurmat.

Let’s change the we to a you. Don’t include others.

But its not AGAINST the teachings of Guru Sahibs.

Sure it is, dancing to gurbani is not inline with Guru Sahibs teaching.

If it was then we would raise doubt.

Once again with the ‘we’, it’s only you sir, And I know you would have doubts, its obvious coming from you.

For example, painting can be considered a form of meditation, yet its NOT gurmat. It does the exact samething as kirtan, it relaxes you.

How is painting not gurmat? And to say that steel does the same thing as a pricless diamond (kirtan) is one of the worst examples. Kirtan gets you to God as it’s the Shabad Guru and painting is to express the 'I' with limited success. Painting is man made, kirtan is the Lords praises you can’t compare the two.

Um how about dancing aftering reading Gurbani?

Then its reading Gurbani without understanding.

Am I showing attachment to the computer screen or the words? or the internet on which the gurbani is desplayed on?

Your really confused here, The key word here to figure it out for you is AFTER. Also if you want to disrespect Gurbani, go right ahead, you have done it before by calling it maya.

If someone dances to kirtan they could be enjoying the gurbani. They could very well be enjoying the music as well, what's the problem in that?

Gurbani doesn’t make someone dance. And its not gurmat. Only a Manmat will dance to Gurbani.

So attachment to "sound of instrument" is bad? How about attachment to "words in SGGS"?

The answer lies in the question. Its called Attachment. One of the five thieves.

How about attachment to "words in SGGS"?

Attachment to the Shabad Guru is good because this will get you to God. The shabad Guru is eternal. The sound of an intrument is worldly and finite

No it doesn't necessarily have to. If something makes you feel extremely happy instead of relaxed, you WILL jump up and down!

Gurbani helps a person control the mind. An action of jumping for joy when your happy and crying when your feeling sad is an emotional outburst where you are controlled by worldly events. Gurbani once read with full concentration helps to balance these emotions. Once balanced happiness and sadness are seen one and the same. Dancing is an action of joy and no control over the emotions. Gurbani helps to control this so it would be really foolish to say Gurbani can promote it.

Perhaps they were singing the shabad themselves.

If they were singing the shabd then they could have still danced. Or are you saying Guru Sahibs couldn’t do two things at once.

So if this raas is UNEXPLAINABLE and then who knows how you could behave in its presence. It never made Guru Sahib dance but if itmakes other people do so, what is the problem in that?

Guru Sahib had the most raas, which is unexplainable and this bring us back to what Gurbani does, it helps control the mind, where balance is brought into your body and mind, self-control.

Perhaps they experienced a diferent rass.

They read Gurbani and we read the same Gurbani, you get the same results.

i was talking about what you had said earlier. If you have difficulty following someone's post then its OK to ask for clarification.

It’s on you to clarify from the beginning, but you didn’t. There was no indication to which post you were referring too. There was no difficulty following the post as I just said you showed no indication so I went on one of the post I just wrote. Next time make it clear.

 

[spnadmin]

Singh ji

You are in part correct to call this to our attention. When a person starts a thread, they don't own it and do have to address concerns and objections raised by other members.

The part that can't be discussed -- If Bhagat ji received warnings or infractions, we couldn't say so publicly or privately for that matter. If Bhagat ji has been warned on a thread, then there would be a record of that on the thread.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

GURBANI ..INSPIRES ME.... MAKES ME.. WANT TO...DANCE...TO THE TUNE OF THE CREATOR..
MAKE PURPOSEFUL CHANGES TO MY DAILY LIFE...LIVE MY LIFE....DANCE THROUGH LIFE....ACCORDING TO THE LAWS OF THE CREATOR..HIS HUKM...HIS WILL...HASDEHN KHELDEAHN...MEIN TERE DWAREH AIYAH....:welcome::happy:

 

[Archived_Member4]

Singh ji

You are in part correct to call this to our attention. When a person starts a thread, they don't own it and

No disrespected intended, but for you to tell me what is right and wrong, is no place for you to comment on. I don't like the snobby attitude.

do have to address concerns and objections raised by other members.

Didn't you just say the members havne the write to answer questions if they want in the Mcleod thread. Now your saying the people who starts the thread has to, which is it? I'm getting a snobby attitude from this remark aswell.

The part that can't be discussed -- If Bhagat ji received warnings or infractions, we couldn't say so publicly or privately for that matter. If Bhagat ji has been warned on a thread, then there would be a record of that on the thread.

No disrespect, but I don't care who has been warned or not. You guys have my views already, no need to repeat anything.

 

[spnadmin]

Quote:
do have to address concerns and objections raised by other members.
Didn't you just say the members havne the right to answer questions if they want in the Mcleod thread? Now your saying the people who starts the thread has to, which is it? I'm getting a snobby attitude from this remark aswell. (Singh ji)

You are correct Singh ji -- I am being inconsistent. So for the record, Bhagat ji would not have to answer any questions if he does not want to. Thanks for pointing out my error.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Gurbani Shabads are meant to make us dance from the within. Inner dancing means awakening ourselves from the inside so that we can understand the meanings of Gurbani, put them into practice and then share with others.

I belong to the disco era. There are many venues for the outer dancing with the help of Bhangra music. Bale, bale... shava, shava.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

I believe it is wrong to dance to kirtan, the Gurus wanted to separate us from Hindus were dancing in temples was permitted and part of the religion, we are not Hindus. Shabads have a different role to play in Sikhi, they heal the mind and body, originally, the raags were designed to create certain mind sets for example in the morning they were designed to uplift us and in the evening to wind down.

But with modern dancing music being played by ragis to holy shabad it is no wonder people want to dance. I went to the 3HO European Yoga Festival this year and Yogi Bhajan in his video lecture told people to dance to a shabad, I simply walked out, as I have been brought up as a Sikh we do not dance to shabads.

I do respect the complete devotion of the people at the festival. But we should try and support and learn the original raags, it would only be to our advantage.

Gurmit Kaur ji

I had a similar experience, in a different venue, but very similar nonetheless. It was very upsetting and I had to really reflect hard on my reaction. What I did was shut my eyes and meditate until it stopped and the program moved on. After that I said -- no more yoga festivals for me. It sounds intolerant of me I know, but the words of the raags and the ideas behind them, the music -- that is for moving out of our mundane world and into another place. My opinion only of course. I agree with you.